Christian Message Boards: TWO IN THE FIELD AND TWO AT THE MILL

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

by Cornelius R. Stam

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour you Lord doth come" (Matt.24:40-42).

How often the above passage has been interpreted to apply to our Lord's coming for the members of His Body! At the rapture of the Church, it is said, two will be working in the field, when one will be taken to heaven and the other left to go through the day of God's wrath, and so also with two women who may be grinding side by side at the mill: one will be caught up to be with the Lord and the other left behind.

But actually this passage cannot have anything to do with the rapture of the Body to be with Christ.

First, the truth of our Lord's coming for the members of His Body was a secret first revealed by the glorified Lord through Paul (ICor.15:51-58; IThes. 4:15-18).

But from Matthew 24 itself it is still more evident that the passage cannot refer to the rapture.

True, the passage says: "The one shall be taken, and the other left", but where and how will the one be taken, and what will be the lot of the one who is left behind?

From the verses immediately preceding, it is evident that the coming of Christ to earth to judge and reign is in view. This coming is likened to what happened in the days of Noah. The people ate and drank, married and gave away again in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, "and knew not until the flood came and took them all away". These people were not "taken away" to glory; they were "taken away" in judgment.

Since verses 40 and 41 are a continuation of this illustration, it is evident that the two "taken away" are taken away in judgment at our Lord's return to reign, while the two who are "left" are left to enter into His millennial reign. This interpretation alone is consistent with the whole context in which we find this passage.

How much confusion would be avoided if the truth of the rapture of the Body to be with Christ were recognized to be what it is: a divine secret first revealed to Paul concerning the Church of this present dispensation, the Body of Christ.

Posted by Brother Paul (Member # 7959) on :

Amen brother, I am glad you brought this out.

Brother Paul

Posted by crimson (Member # 614) on :

thethings Jesus says in Mat.24, when closely examned, knock lots of man made theories in the head

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

quote:
Originally posted by crimson:
thethings Jesus says in Mat.24, when closely examned, knock lots of man made theories in the head

And your Scripture to back up this statement? Heres mine...for the post.

2 Timothy, Chapter 2, 015: Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Posted by crimson (Member # 614) on :

quote:
And your Scripture to back up this statement?

as stated Mat. chapter 24

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

quote:
Originally posted by crimson:

quote:
And your Scripture to back up this statement?
as stated Mat. chapter 24

And what does Mat. 24 have to do with this statement you post , " knock lots of man made theories in the head" are you saying in your opinion that my post is one of these man made theories?

Posted by crimson (Member # 614) on :

quote:
are you saying in your opinion that my post is one of these man made theories?

no by your opening post i would say you are seeing through some of the prop surrounding one of these theories

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :

Crimson,

Why don't you tell us what your opinion is? I have no clue what it is.
Betty

Posted by crimson (Member # 614) on :

Mat.24 Jesus answered the disciples about his coming and the end of the age, nobody gone anywhere even through great tribulation, all still here when the Son of Man comes on clouds of heaven.

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :

I disagree. I believe very much in a pre-trib rapture.
betty

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

You're right Betty. Also, the scriptures clearly state that not all who come to faith in Christ during the Tribulation will survive until the Glorious Appearing of our Lord.

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)

Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :

Rev. 20:4 those beheaded ( alive or dead) are those who know Yeshua as Head of the Body, knowing they are not their own head, but HE is the Head.

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Rev. 20:4 those beheaded ( alive or dead) are those who know Yeshua as Head of the Body, knowing they are not their own head, but HE is the Head.

beheaded--literally, "smitten with an axe"; a Roman punishment, though crucifixion, casting to beasts, and burning, were the more common modes of execution. The guillotine in revolutionary France was a revival of the mode of capital punishment of pagan imperial Rome. Paul was beheaded, and no doubt shall share the first resurrection, in accordance with his prayer that he "might attain unto the resurrection from out of the rest of the dead" (Greek, "exanastasis"). The above facts may account for the specification of this particular kind of punishment.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Our Lord Jesus Christ is certainly the head of His church, the body of Christ, but Revelation 20:4 is about a literal beheading of martyrs.

"Who had been beheaded" is πεπελεκισμένων [pepelekismenōn] , perfect tense: the ones having been beheaded with an axe.6 They were martyred and are now identified as having been faithful unto death (Rev. 2:10+). At the opening of the fifth seal, John saw those who had been slain “for the word of God and for the testimony which they held” (Rev. 6:9+). Elsewhere, John was shown a great multitude who came out of the Great Tribulation, most of whom were probably martyrs (Rev. 7:13-14+).

(6 Frederick William Danker and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature [Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press, 2000], 641.)

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :

thank you Carol.
betty

Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :

All scripture has literal and spiritual meaning, as all scripture applys to the triune man spirit, soul and body.
If I failed in looking at the literal while looking at the spiritual, then I missed part didn't I!

T7

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Betty [hug]

The Word of God is an exceedingly complex unity. The different items and the various kinds of material which make it up—laws, promises, liturgies, genealogies, arguments, narratives, meditations, visions, aphorisms, homilies, parables and the rest—do not stand in Scripture as isolated fragments, but as parts of a whole. The exposition of them, therefore, involves exhibiting them in right relation both to the whole and to each other. God’s Word is not presented in Scripture in the form of a theological system, but it admits of being stated in that form, and, indeed, requires to be so stated before we can properly grasp it—grasp it, that is, as a whole. Every text has its immediate context in the passage from which it comes, its broader context in the book to which it belongs, and its ultimate context in the Bible as a whole; and it needs to be rightly related to each of these contexts if its character, scope and significance is to be adequately understood.

The Interpretation Of Scripture

Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :

And anyone who seeks to understand Scripture and God's revelation should recognize that the Scriptures do not contain all of that revelation and they may not contain complete and clear explanations regarding some aspects of that revelation, for example the triune nature of God's personhood and when Jesus is going to return. That is why God wants us to "trust" him without having to know or to understand everything about his nature and the ways in which he works. After all he is God, and we are his creatures!