Christian Message Boards: True meaning of "Seed Faith."

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We are justified how? We are justified by the faith ‘of’ Jesus Christ. It is not even our faith.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I live by the ‘faith of’ the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I live not by faith ‘in’ Christ, but by the faith of Christ. ‘OF’ means from. Therefore I live by the faith ‘from’ Jesus Christ. And what must I have to be able to live by the faith ‘of’ Christ? I must have faith the size of a “grain of mustard.” In other words, I must have ‘simple belief’ in order to have the ‘faith of’ Christ operational in my life.

Amen!
[Bible]

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :

Mine grows from reading God's word [Smile]

You too?

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Yahshua gives the faith to us , this is true, but the believer must exercise that faith...

1 Timothy 4

6If you lay all these instructions before the brethren, you will be a worthy steward and a good minister of Christ Jesus, ever nourishing your own self on the truths of the faith and of the good [Christian] instruction which you have closely followed.

7But refuse and avoid irreverent legends (profane and impure and godless fictions, mere grandmothers' tales) and silly myths, and express your disapproval of them. Train yourself toward godliness (piety), [keeping yourself spiritually fit].

8For physical training is of some value (useful for a little), but godliness (spiritual training) is useful and of value in everything and in every way, for it holds promise for the present life and also for the life which is to come.

9This saying is reliable and worthy of complete acceptance by everybody.

10With a view to this we toil and strive, [yes and] suffer reproach, because we have [fixed our] hope on the living God, Who is the Savior (Preserver, Maintainer, Deliverer) of all men, especially of those who believe (trust in, rely on, and adhere to Him).

11Continue to command these things and to teach them.

12Let no one despise or think less of you because of your youth, but be an example (pattern) for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, and in purity.

13Till I come, devote yourself to [public and private] reading, to exhortation (preaching and personal appeals), and to teaching and instilling doctrine.

14Do not neglect the gift which is in you, [that special inward endowment] which was directly imparted to you [by the Holy Spirit] by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you [at your ordination].

15Practice and cultivate and meditate upon these duties; throw yourself wholly into them [as your ministry], so that your progress may be evident to everybody.

16Look well to yourself [to your own personality] and to [your] teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for by so doing you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

continued from above post

Having "the faith of Yahshua" is to have faith of the same quality, of the same kind or nature.... it is the faith of Yahshua that saves not faith in Yahshua....

faith of Yahshua produces obedience....
faith of Yahshua caused Him to endure the cross

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :

I believe that this verse from Psalms gives us a beautiful picture of how we should view our faith(in) response in relation to the faith(of) that comes from God...........

Psalm 31:24 Be of good courage(faith-in), and He shall strengthen(faith-of) your heart, all you who hope in the Lord.

With love in Christ, Daniel

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:
Yahshua gives the faith to us , this is true, but the believer must exercise that faith...

Keep trying till you get it becausehelives! But on what you said.... If 'we' exercise it as you are stating, we depart from His rest. We enter the condition of 'works', the 'effort' of trying, instead of letting. (See Heb 6:1)

Here for example, you said:

quote:
Having "the faith of Yahshua" is to have faith of the same quality, of the same kind or nature.... it is the faith of Yahshua that saves not faith in Yahshua....

You outrightly stated, perhaps, that having the faith 'of' Yahshua, is to have your own 'copy'! It is the 'metaphor' argument that Carol Swenson so loved to disagree over. For a metaphor is something 'equal', but not the thing itself. A metaphor is something that 'looks' or sounds the same, but is not the same. It is 'equal' in comparison. So by your saying it is to have "faith of the same quality," you are saying metaphorical faith.

The 'faith of' Christ is, plain and simply, HIS (living) FAITH working in us. It is HIS FAITH that 'accomplishes' HIS will.

In the statement I made in opening this topic, I said that our job, according to the words of Jesus, is to have "faith as a grain of mustard." You were close in what you were saying. However, Jesus said that if we have faith as a grain of mustard, HIS faith will be empowered, or effected, released or manifested (to cover all ground) on our behalf. Amen! (most merciful and gracious God, Amen!) OUR faith can accomplish nothing, and our efforts only create wood, hay and stubble. But simple belief allows HIM to gain entrance.

You did however say that "it is the faith of Yahshua that saves, not faith in Yahshua." Indeed, Yahshua believes in Himself.

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

If however we have the tiniest of faith, which HE called 'belief', then HIS faith pours in, because the lid is open. And HIS faith accomplishes whatsoever He purposes.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Since HE believes in Himself, when we 'believe' we become like a ship whose sails are open into the wind. HE moves us! But we don't move ourselves.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Get this meaning: Rom 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." That is the wind in our sails, being led by God!

Take that Darlene!

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

1 Timothy 4

6If you lay all these instructions before the brethren, you will be a worthy steward and a good minister of Christ Jesus, ever nourishing your own self on the truths of the faith and of the good [Christian] instruction which you have closely followed.

7But refuse and avoid irreverent legends (profane and impure and godless fictions, mere grandmothers' tales) and silly myths, and express your disapproval of them. Train yourself toward godliness (piety), [keeping yourself spiritually fit].

8For physical training is of some value (useful for a little), but godliness (spiritual training) is useful and of value in everything and in every way, for it holds promise for the present life and also for the life which is to come.

9This saying is reliable and worthy of complete acceptance by everybody.

10With a view to this we toil and strive, [yes and] suffer reproach, because we have [fixed our] hope on the living God, Who is the Savior (Preserver, Maintainer, Deliverer) of all men, especially of those who believe (trust in, rely on, and adhere to Him).

11Continue to command these things and to teach them.

12Let no one despise or think less of you because of your youth, but be an example (pattern) for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, and in purity.

13Till I come, devote yourself to [public and private] reading, to exhortation (preaching and personal appeals), and to teaching and instilling doctrine.

14Do not neglect the gift which is in you, [that special inward endowment] which was directly imparted to you [by the Holy Spirit] by prophetic utterance when the elders laid their hands upon you [at your ordination].

15Practice and cultivate and meditate upon these duties; throw yourself wholly into them [as your ministry], so that your progress may be evident to everybody.

16Look well to yourself [to your own personality] and to [your] teaching; persevere in these things [hold to them], for by so doing you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

I don't know what translation you used, but it is water-ie!

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Paraphrase: Take care that you are both in, and continuing in the doctrine. Because in doing so you are abiding in Him, and will safely instruct those who hear you!

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Amplified

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

I haven't looked at the amplified for a long time. I'm surprised at that.

Posted by whisper (Member # 7616) on :

Hi im new to this board but I see in your post that you quote Gal 2:16 and state that it is the faith of Christ. thats from the King James bible and new american standard says faith in Christ. Also if you go to the original Greek the word faith in the Kj means relaiance upon Christ for salvation

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :

Michael Harrison wrote

quote:
We are justified how? We are justified by the faith ‘of’ Jesus Christ. It is not even our faith.

Yes, that is probably right. The Bible says that we are apparently all given a measure of faith:

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God has dealt to every man the measure of faith.

And also, as Michael Harrison pointed out, it may be that we are saved, NOT by OUR faith, but by the faith which Jesus had.

In other words, as Watchman Nee said, God has provided Jesus Christ for ALL the things that we lack as sinful first Adamic beings.

We are apparently GIVEN the faith to believe in Jesus, but then God looks at the faith of Jesus and says, "Okay, Jesus had the appropriate faith" (but God cannot say that of us because we only have wbeen given "a measure" of faith).

So, as with the blood of Jesus that God looks at for the forgiveness of our sins, God looks at the faith of Jesus to give us the things we need and desire.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him.

So we with our measure of faith have faith in the faith of Jesus and God looks at th faith of Jesus and God is satisfied because those who believe in Jesus are covered by the faith of Jesus.

love, Eden

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :

There is "faith in" and "faith of". Its not either or.............consider this.......Why would Jesus say "He that endures to the end shall be saved" if there was no "faith in". God does not test the "faith of"(though He may test how we appropriate it), but rather He tests the faith in............in other words.....He tests our willingness to stay committed to His cause despite the trials, tribulations, and temptations of this life.

Jesus even uses the words "sanctified by faith that is in me" in Acts 26:18. This is sanctification by "continuing to abide in" or "continuing to remain committed to". The relationship is back and forth. God initiates, we respond, God responds again, we respond again and so on and so on until our call becomes more clearly defined. Faith in, faith of, faith in, faith of, faith in, faith of..........that is how we grow. Its not one or the other. Be of good courage with what God has given you so far.

With love in Christ, Daniel

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:
Yes, that is probably right. The Bible says that we are apparently all given a measure of faith:

On this point eden, I would respond that the faith given us described as an amount, is 'seed' faith, as in a grain of mustard. I have come to understand that this means 'simple belief.' That is the faith we are capable of. If we have that, Jesus 'fills' it with HIS faith. Then it is understood to be 'faith of.' His faith moves us into action.

For, see, as with Abraham, he 'believed' God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Belief put Abraham positionally where he needed to be, and where "God could work!"

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Hello whisper. I have come to believe that God is more appropiately represented in the 'strange' language of the KJV. I would rebel against that but I can't. Most other translations do not get it, and are watered down. And I have found that there is a difference between 'faith of,' and 'faith in,'. Even the KJV differentiates. It deliberately descriminates, and uses 'faith in' sometimes. There is a reason. But let's look at this verse:

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Will 'faith in' work here? it would be a double negative if this sentence read 'faith in'. Because of course, the 'faith in' God would be of none effect if they did not believe. But the faith 'of' God doesn't change if we do not believe, which is what the sentence says. When the KJV says 'faith of' it is for a reason, and other translations overlook it for not understanding.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

In other words, 'faith in' Christ will get you where Christ will meet you. But if HE doesn't meet you with His faith, you'll not be able to move a fleck floating in a beam of sunshine!

Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Luk 12:26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

Therefore, faith in who HE is, allows Him to do what HE is able.