quote:

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God / Jesus

I know they are the same Jesus even said He and the Father are one. God became flesh (Jesus) to bring man back to Him.

Just wondering why some people think they are two different persons.

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quote:

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We believe that the one God eternally exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, co-equal and co-eternal, having precisely the same nature and attributes, and worthy of precisely the same worship, confidence, and obedience.

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I agree. I only wanted to know who the "We" is in the phrase "We believe...".

Thank you, Caretaker
Eden
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Hello everybody, adding my 2 cents...

first off the doctrine of co-equal is not true...scripture makes it very clear Yahweh is the head over all, Yahshua made it clear He only did the will of the Father, and the Holy Spirit only testified of the things concerning Yahshua....

When in any relationship, if you are equal, you have equal authority....

it is very clear from scripture they are not equal ...

and on another note.....

Yahweh, Yahshua and the Holy Ghost are one but they are also three....

I like what Brother Barry (barrykind here on the board) told me one time, the Trinity is like water....

water exist in three forms....water, ice and steam, its all the same water but exist in three totally separate, unique and distinct forms....

They are one but they are also different!
 

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Posted by The Beauty of Holiness777 (Member # 7380) on :
 
Father - In Creation (the source, eternal majesty)
Son - In Redemption (The eternal Word, incarnate as Jesus Christ)
Holy Spirit (Ghost) - In the church (which dwells in the Saints) - Advocate

This is the Godhead called the Trinity. Trinity meaning three in unity yet only ONE.
Three in unity (oneness) sharing a singel divine essence, being or nature.

In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1)

John 1:1-3;14,16-18
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God .

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.


(14)And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH,and dwelt
among us, {and we beheld His glory, the
glory as of the only begotten of the
Father.} full of grace and truth.
16-18;
And of His fulness have all we received
and grace for grace
For the law was given by Moses, but grace
and truth came by Jesus Christ.
No man hath seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the
Father, he hath declared Him.

Exodus 3:14;
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

I AM the I AM;
I am self-existence
I am who I choose to be
I am the Father of Creations
I am the Son of Redemption
I am the Holy Spirit
I am He who lives forever more
I am the Lily in the Valley
I am the bright and morning star
I am He who lives unmoved in one moving present
I am He who lives through all the ages
I am the past, present and future
I am He whose bonds are immeasurable
I am He who is limitless and boundless
I am He who is forever the existence One.

I am the same one today, as I was yesterday; I will be the same one tomorrow and forever.

I Am that I Am reveals God in His fullness.
 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
I agree that scriptures reveal that the Father and the Son are not co-equal in authority, but where I believe that They are co-equal is in divine essence/Holy nature.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Where is Isaiah? Was it not he who was so adamant that the Holy Spirit was not a person? Did he also believe in oneness? Well, he is not here to answer.

Though one, God is all three at once! And in order for us to 'relate' to Him, our God, we have Jesus, the "Image of the invisible God," because we need the focal point as little human beings. That also is why HE became flesh. But Jesus is the Word of God. Neither is His (the Father's) word separate from Himself. But if the Father can have knowledge of something that the Son does not, that implies some kind of distinction, or separation.
 

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Posted by Glory belongs to Him (Member # 7432) on :
 
John 5:6-8
(6) This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water along, but by water and blood. AND IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT BEARETH WITNESS, BECAUSE THE SPIRIT IS TRUTH.

(7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are ONE.

(8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in ONE.


Verse 7,
The Father - testified of the Son, both at His baptism and at His transfiguration.

Mark 1:11
Thou art my beloved Son, IN whom I Am well pleased. (Baptism)

Matthew 17:5
This is my beloved Son, IN Whom I Am well pleased; hear ye Him. (Transfiguration)

The Word - Who testified of Himself many times, while He was on earth, and again, more greatly after His ascension in heaven. (Rev.1:5)

The Spirit - Whose testimony was added after His glorification.

John 15:26
But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

These three are one just as the Father and Son are one. Nothing can separate the Spirit from the Father and the Son for they are a totally package.

They are one in essence, in knowlege, in Will and in their testimony.


Selah,
 

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Posted by The Beauty of Holiness777 (Member # 7380) on :
 
Excellent!
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
God/Jesus:
Genesis 1:1 IN the beginning God (Hebrew Elohim, plural)....
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

But you know, we 'relate' to Him on three different levels, only, one at a time, as Father, and as Son, and as the Holy Spirit, but not so much as only 'one' person, all at the same time. And it necessarily starts with Jesus, because we needed Him in order to have a relationship with the Father. So we did not start out with the Father. Therefore through the person of Jesus, 'by' the Holy Spirit, we came to the Father.
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
Question was: Why do some think that God and Jesus are two different persons?

If a person is not familiar with the Word of God then it seems natural when they hear the Word spoken. It takes time to learn spiritual lingo.
Remember when you first heard your first puter words, like icon, html, mouse, blog, message board, etc ?

There are folks who have been going to church for years who still think that God and Jesus are different. Some think that when you are saved you get an extra spirit....you've got your own which was changed then you get the Holy Spirit.
It's not so hard to understand why they think these things. It's not so hard to understand why any of us find the need for study of the word. If we didn't see a need for study of the word why are we here on this board ?

I'm here to learn, share, and study...not to show my pride in my vast knowledge of the word, cause I learn every day and feel pretty stupid sometimes. But, I'm learning and that makes me feel lots gooder.
 

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Posted by Glory belongs to Him (Member # 7432) on :
 
AMEN!
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
bluefrog wrote

quote:

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Question was: Why do some think that God and Jesus are two different persons?

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quote:

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Question was: Why do some think that God and Jesus are two different persons?

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There ARE Two Persons, and the Two Persons DO NOT MERGE IN AND OUT OF EACH OTHER; they are BOTH GOD.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by Glory belongs to Him (Member # 7432) on :
 
To totally agree would devastate you wouldn't it Eden!
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Glory belongs to Him, agreement is usually a good thing.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
I just tried to answer the question here on the GOD/JESUS board. The subject came up here initially. I started to thunk about it and put my learnins down over there. Too lazy to do it again here. rivit

Dr Bluefrog, esq.
 

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Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
If Jesus is "God", where in the Bible does he say "I am God" or "Worship me"?
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
God/Jesus is the subject:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Now, the last word "one" in Greek is "hen" Neut. one in essence, not one person which would be "heis" masc.

John 14 covers the subject pretty well also. See verses 11,28,29,38 and Rev. 2.3

Sorta spiritual huh ?
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
You will find it in the Book of John. Happy Searching!
 

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Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
When he says “I and my Father are one”, This does Not mean in the literal sense. You see the bible was originally written in Hebrew, and the Hebrew style of literature is full of metaphors and similes. This is a well-known fact, ask any Jew. Then the bible was translated into Greek. In the Greek language there was no such thing as metaphors and similes. Everything was literal. So nowadays everybody reads a “Hebrew bible” through “Greek glasses”.
If you read this verse in its context, you will understand.

John 10: 23-30
23: And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24: Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25: Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26: But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30: I and my Father are one.

The Jews came to Jesus and said to him “How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.” The Jews were confused with the preaching of Jesus, so they said to Jesus “tell us plainly” and Jesus replied, “I told you,But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” Then Jesus talks about his followers and promising them paradise as their reward, then when he says “I and my Father are one”, He means that he and God are one in revealing the message.

I can go into more detail and continue the rest of this chapter to make it clearer but I hope you understand.

However, I still haven’t seen a verse where Jesus says “I am God” or any sentence where he says “Worship me” in the Bible.

People doubt Jesus' divinity because of his human attributes in the Bible. Everything he preaches and his lifestyle described in the Bible is very Human, and not Godly. This is why people believe the “Father” is God and “Jesus” is a prophet of God (two different “persons”).
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
John 8:
56: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57: Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59: Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

II. Who is God?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
2. John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
3. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man
Christ Jesus,
4. Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have
chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me
there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.
5. Jude 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and
power, Both now and forever. Amen.

B. Jesus

1. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an
understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His
Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
2. Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A
scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
3. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty
God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

III. Who is the Lord of lords?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 10:17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great
God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.
2. Psalms 136:1-4 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth
for ever. 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. 3 O give
thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. 4 To him who alone doeth
great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 17:14 "These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome
them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called,
chosen, and faithful."

IV. Who is the Savior?

A. God

1. Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
2. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
3. Jude 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and
power, Both now and forever. Amen.

B. Jesus

1. Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and
Savior Jesus Christ,
2. 2 Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
3. 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior
of the world.

V. Who is I AM?

A. God

1. Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall
say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

B. Jesus

1. John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM."

VI. Who is the Holy One?

A. God

1. Isaiah 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the
LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.
2. Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
3. Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
4. Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and
such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that
smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
5. Isaiah 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect
to the Holy One of Israel.
6. Isaiah 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among
men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

B. Jesus

1. Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of
Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
2. Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine
Holy One to see corruption.
3. Acts 3:14-15 "But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to
be granted to you, 15 "and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of
which we are witnesses.

VII. Who is the Shepherd?

A. God

1. Psalms 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. Ezekiel 34:11-12 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my
sheep, and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is
among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them
out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 25:31-32 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy
angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be
gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd
divideth his sheep from the goats:
2. John 10:11,14 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the
sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

VII. Who raised Jesus from the dead?

A. God

1. Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your
heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

B. Jesus

1. John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I
will raise it up."

VIII. Who shed His blood for the church?

A. God

1. Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the
Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased
with His own blood.

B. Jesus

1. 1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and
without spot.
2. Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own
blood, suffered outside the gate.
3. Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of
sins.

IX. Who is to be worshipped?

A. God

1. Exodus 34:14 '(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is
Jealous, is a jealous God),
2. Deuteronomy 30:16-17 "in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to
walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that
you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go
to possess. 17 "But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn
away, and worship other gods and serve them,
3. 2 Chronicles 7:19 "But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My
commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship
them,
4. Matthew 4:9-10 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall
down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is
written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 2:2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have
seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him."
2. Hebrews 1:6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all
the angels of God worship Him."
3. John 9:35-38 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He
said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, "Who is He,
Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and
it is He who is talking with you." 38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshipped
Him.

C. Who is not to be worshipped?

1. Acts 10:25-26 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and
worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man."
2. Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you
do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony
of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
3. Revelation 22:8-9 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and
saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9
Then he said to me, "See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of
your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship
God."
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
X. Who is the First and the Last?

A. God

1. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of
hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
2. Revelation 21:6-7 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of
life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall
be my son.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 1:10-18 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great
voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,
What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;
unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis,
and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake
with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the
seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the
foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white
like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like
unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many
waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp
twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And
when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying
unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
2. Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith
the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

XI. Who is the Husband?

A. God

1. Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you:
and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
2. Jeremiah 3:20 Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye
dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.
3. Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the
day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my
covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
4. Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy
Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

B. Jesus

1. Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body
of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead,
that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
2. 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused
you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3. Ephesians 5:22-33
4. Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the
seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will
show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

XII. Who is the Rock?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 32:3-4 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye
greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are
judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2. 1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is
there any rock like our God.
3. 2 Samuel 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
4. 2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
5. Psalms 28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to
me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
6. Psalms 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I
mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
7. Psalms 62:1-2 To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David. Truly my soul
waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. 2 He only is my rock and my salvation;
he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.
8. Psalms 62:6-7 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be
moved. 7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is
in God.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
2. Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of
offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
3. 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that
spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

XIII. Who is the King of Israel?

A. God

1. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of
hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
2. Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine
enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil
any more.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel,
let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
2. Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see
and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
3. John 1:48-49 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered
and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I
saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God;
thou art the King of Israel.
4. John 12:12-15 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they
heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 Took branches of palm trees, and went
forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the
name of the Lord. 14 And Jesus, when he had found a young *** , sat thereon; as it is
written, 15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an *** 's colt.
5. Matthew 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him,
saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
6. Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his
head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked
him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
7. John 19:19-21 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was,
JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. 20 This title then read many of the Jews:
for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in
Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. 21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write
not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

XIV. Who is the King of the earth?

A. God

1. Psalms 47:2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
2. Psalms 47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
3. Jeremiah 10:6-7 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great,
and thy name is great in might. 7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to
thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all
their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
4. Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under
the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose
kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
5. Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there
be one LORD, and his name one.
6. Zechariah 14:16-17 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the
nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the
King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that
whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the
King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
7. 2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that
ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
8. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and
peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
9. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of
God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards,
nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

B. Jesus

1. Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor
covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of
God.
2. Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
3. 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a
sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
5. 2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the
everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
6. Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in
the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the
word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
7. Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in
heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of
his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one
baptism)

a. Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through
righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
b. Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who
believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
c. Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be
saved, even as they.

XV. Who is the King of kings?

A. God

1. Daniel 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is
a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest
reveal this secret.

B. Jesus

1. 1 Timothy 6:14-15 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable,
until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall show, who is
the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
2. Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome
them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called,
and chosen, and faithful.
3. Revelation 19:13-16 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name
is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon
white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a
sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod
of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD
OF LORDS.

XVI. Who is the true God?

A. God

1. Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting
king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his
indignation.
2. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

B. Jesus

1. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an
understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even
in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

XVII. To Whom is glory to be given?

A. God

1. Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
neither my praise to graven images.
2. Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should
my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
3. Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my
name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your
blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
4. Revelation 7:9-12 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could
number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne,
and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried
with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto
the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and
the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12
Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and
power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
5. Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and
kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to
him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have
followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,
ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
2. Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels
with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
3. Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
4. Hebrews 13:20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord
Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

5. 2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
6. Revelation 5:11-12 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about
the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand
times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is
the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and
honour, and glory, and blessing.

XVIII. Are we to honor the Son just as we honor the Father?

A. John 5:21-23 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so
the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed
all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour
the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent
him.
B. John 12:44-45 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but
on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
C. John 10:27-33 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And
I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck
them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then
the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works
have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The
Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and
because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
D. John 14:7-9 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the
Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you,
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

1. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past
unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who
being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all
things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on
the right hand of the Majesty on high;

XIX. Is Jesus Yahweh (Jehovah)?

A. Jeremiah 23:5-6 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD (Yahweh), "That I will
raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute
judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel
will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD (Yahweh)
OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

XX. Is Jesus God with us?

A. Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall
conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel (Immanuw'el,
im-maw-noo-ale'; from H5973 and H410 with suff. pron. ins.; with us (is) God) Strong’s.

XXI. Was God manifest in the flesh?

A. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, received up into glory.

XXII. Is Jesus equal with God?

A. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had
broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with
God.

XXIII. Are we to address Jesus as God?

A. John 20:24-29 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them
when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the
Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put
my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then
came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach
hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And
Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him,
Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not
seen, and yet have believed.

XXIV. Unto Whom will every knee bow?

A. God

1. Isaiah 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I
the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none
beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God,
and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue
shall swear.

B. Jesus

1. Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue
should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

XXV. For Whom was the way prepared by John the Baptist?

A. God

1. Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:
and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of
the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2. Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the
LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
3. Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger
before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

XXVI. Who rewards every man according to their works?

A. God

1. Psalms 62:11-12 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power
belongeth unto God. 12 Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to
every man according to his work.
2. Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule
for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
3. Psalms 54:4-5 Behold, God is mine helper: the Lord is with them that uphold my soul. 5
He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.
4. Psalms 94:1-2 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom
vengeance belongeth, show thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a
reward to the proud.
5. Isaiah 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to
the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and
his work before him.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 22:12-13 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give
every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and
the end, the first and the last.
2. Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his
angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto
you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son
of man coming in his kingdom.

XXVII. Who is the Light?

A. God

1. Psalms 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my
darkness.
2. Psalms 27:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I
fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
3. Psalms 36:7-9 How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of
men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings. 8 They shall be abundantly satisfied
with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy
pleasures. 9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
4. Isaiah 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
5. Isaiah 60:19-20 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall
the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and
thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw
itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be
ended.
6. Micah 7:8-9 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I
sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me. 9 I will bear the indignation of the
LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute
judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

B. Jesus

1. John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was
the light of men.
2. John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he
that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
3. John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

XXIII. Go tell them what great things God has done.

A. Luke 8:38-39 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that
he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 Return to thine own house,
and show how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and
published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
 

---

Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
I appreciate you posting this encyclopaedia. I’ve read through it and you still did not answer my question???

I have read the Bible...

Brother, I want just ONE VERSE where JESUS SAYS: “I am God” or “Worship me”. Surely if he was “GOD”, he would have said one of the two at least. Did Jesus CLAIM to be GOD? Did the man CLAIM divinity? Did he utter the words “I am God” or “Worship me” or anywhere where HE CLAIMS divinity?

The answer is No.

People claimed him to be a God but Jesus himself never claimed to be God.
Example:
When Hitler was conquering in world war, he was so powerful that 90 million natsi said that he was the messiah, God incarnate. 90 MILLION in Germany!

BUT did Hitler CLAIM to be GOD?
The answer is No.

Did Jesus CLAIM to be God? Did He CLAIM divinity?
The answer is No.

What are the qualities of GOD?

John 4:24
24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

JESUS SAID Worship GOD in SPIRIT. Not form, shape and size.
Jesus is NOT a SPIRIT. He is in form, shape and size.

Roman 1:3
3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

How can “God” have a seed? This implies his father is literally David as he says, “according to the flesh”, meaning literally.

The Birth of Jesus “God”

JESUS was in Mary’s womb for 9 months, then was born, and he was circumcised on the 8th day.

Can you imagine God being circumcised???
JESUS ate food, he excreted, he slept, he breathed, he wept, he made mistakes and this is all DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE.

Are these the attributes of a GOD? Or a Human being?

Mark 13:32

32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

“NEITHER THE SON” meaning JESUS did not know. “BUT THE FATHER” meaning God.

Can you imagine Jesus “God” not knowing?

How much evidence do you need? I have hundreds and hundreds of verses I can show you as proof he is NOT God.

Show me one statement in the Bible where JESUS himself claims divinity.

You will not find it.
 

---

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
John 8:58

Yeshua said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

The verb ought to be translated "was born", indicating that Abraham's life had a specific beginning. This stands in sharp contrast to Yeshuas claim, "I AM". In other words, Yeshua was without beginning, the everpresent One.

verse 59
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Yeshua hid himself and went out of the temple, going thru the midst of them, and so passed by.

The claim of Yeshua to be eternal was a claim to be Divine. Thus, in the eyes of the Jews He was Guilty of Blasphemy, a sin punishable by stoning.
 

---

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Who is I AM?

A. God

1. Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall
say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

B. Jesus

1. John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM."

John 10:27-33 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And
I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck
them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then
the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works
have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The
Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and
because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Word declares Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD (Yahweh), "That I will
raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute
judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel
will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD (Yahweh)
OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 

---

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SearchingTruth:
I appreciate you posting this encyclopaedia. I’ve read through it and you still did not answer my question???

I have read the Bible...

Brother, I want just ONE VERSE where JESUS SAYS: “I am God” or “Worship me”. Surely if he was “GOD”, he would have said one of the two at least. Did Jesus CLAIM to be GOD? Did the man CLAIM divinity? Did he utter the words “I am God” or “Worship me” or anywhere where HE CLAIMS divinity?

The answer is No.

People claimed him to be a God but Jesus himself never claimed to be God.
Example:
When Hitler was conquering in world war, he was so powerful that 90 million natsi said that he was the messiah, God incarnate. 90 MILLION in Germany!

BUT did Hitler CLAIM to be GOD?
The answer is No.

Did Jesus CLAIM to be God? Did He CLAIM divinity?
The answer is No.

What are the qualities of GOD?

John 4:24
24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

JESUS SAID Worship GOD in SPIRIT. Not form, shape and size.
Jesus is NOT a SPIRIT. He is in form, shape and size.

Roman 1:3
3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

How can “God” have a seed? This implies his father is literally David as he says, “according to the flesh”, meaning literally.

The Birth of Jesus “God”

JESUS was in Mary’s womb for 9 months, then was born, and he was circumcised on the 8th day.

Can you imagine God being circumcised???
JESUS ate food, he excreted, he slept, he breathed, he wept, he made mistakes and this is all DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE.

Are these the attributes of a GOD? Or a Human being?

Mark 13:32

32: But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

“NEITHER THE SON” meaning JESUS did not know. “BUT THE FATHER” meaning God.

Can you imagine Jesus “God” not knowing?

How much evidence do you need? I have hundreds and hundreds of verses I can show you as proof he is NOT God.

Show me one statement in the Bible where JESUS himself claims divinity.

You will not find it.

---

You had better go and check the validity of your faith and which Jesus of Nazareth you are believing in.

The Word of God reveals the Lord Jesus Christ from the foundation of the earth, He is the Creator, God manifest in the flesh, the I Am, and the Alpha and Omega.

Isaiah 9:
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Many cults have denied the duality of Jesus of Nazareth, who was fully man and fully God, and in their denial of the fullness of God's Word, they make for themselves another "christ", and place their faith and trust in that which is false.

2 John 1:
9: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
 

---

Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

Let us re-read and think about this statement for a moment. It does not make sense! What is Jesus trying to say? The Christians will claim that Jesus was claiming to be God in that only God has used the phrase: "I AM" in the past to refer to himself. Specifically, references are made to Exodus 3:14 where there is a dialogue between God and Moses*. The passage reads as follows:

Exodus 3:14 - And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

You will make the connection between the two verses and proclaim Jesus* as divine. In addition, you will make the point that the disbelieving Jews confronting Jesus even understood that Jesus was claiming divinity by the use of the phrase. The proof is that when they heard the phrase "I am" from Jesus*, the Jews wanted to stone him for blasphemy. But to determine whether this was the case, the context of the entire passage in the Bible must be read:

John 8:51 - Truly, truly, I say to you, if any one keeps my word, he will never see death." 52 The Jews said to him, "Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, as did the prophets; and you say, 'If any one keeps my word, he will never taste death.' 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you claim to be?" 54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 But you have not known him; I know him. If I said, I do not know him, I should be a liar like you; but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews then said to him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." 59 So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

Notice that the above passage is about the Jews being disturbed that Jesus might be claiming to be greater than Abraham*. The Jewish accusations and the ensuing conflict with Jesus has nothing to do with Jesus claiming divinity. In fact, the Jews are accusing Jesus* of being possessed by a demon. Once Jesus answered, the Jews pick up stones to stone him. But why stone him? Because they believed that he was possessed by a demon. The answer is in the bible, and it is as follows:

Leviticus 20:27 - And if there be a man or a woman in whom is a spirit of Python or of divination, they shall certainly be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood is upon them.

So what! Every day millions of people in the world in many languages refer to themselves using similar phrases. If I use the phrase, it does not mean that I am claiming to be a god. Regardless of this fact, reading the passage, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am", would not make sense if the phrase, "I am", is used as a noun. The sentence is only understood in the context of the passage if we read the last clause, the phrase "I am", to mean "I was or I was present." This last understanding is consistent with the Greek translation and definition of the phrase. In Greek, the phrase "I am" is "Ego Eimi" where Ego is defined as I, me, and My. Eimi is defined as: to be, to exist, to happen, to be present.
 

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Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
My Brothers, JESUS is as Human as you and me (according to the bible). The Bible itself says he is Not God.

Let us examine:

“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:16-17)

Here, Jesus is being Humble by saying “Why callest thou me good?” Can you imagine “God” being Humble? “There is none good but one, that is, God”. Here Jesus is saying that he does not deserve to be called “Good”, but only God is the All Good, not himself, But God.
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"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, Which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Roman 1:3)

How can “God” have a seed? This implies his father is literally David as he says, “according to the flesh”, meaning literally.
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“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32)

“NEITHER THE SON” meaning JESUS did not know. “BUT THE FATHER” meaning God.

Can you imagine Jesus “God” not knowing?
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“And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.” (Mark 11: 12-13)

Can you Imagine Jesus “God” Hungry?? And God not knowing when the season of the fruits are? After all “He” Created it...
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“Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he HUNGERED” (Matthew 21:18)

A hungry God? Can you imagine Jesus “God” being hungry?
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“(He) saith, I THIRST.” (John 19:28)

Can you imagine a thirsty God?
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“He was ASLEEP.” (Matthew, 8:24)
“He fell ASLEEP” (Luke, 8:23)
“He was in the hinder part of the ship, ASLEEP on the pillow” (Mark, 4:38)

Can you imagine a Sleepy God? Is God tired?
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“Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an *** .” (Matthew, 21:5)
“And Jesus, when he had found a young *** , sat thereon” (John, 12:14)

Can you Imagine “God” being meek? And riding a Donkey??
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“And he went into the temple, and began TO CAST OUT them that sold therein, and them that bought.” (Luke, 19:45)
“And when he had made a SCOURGE of small cords, HE DROVE THEM ALL OUT of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and POURED OUT the changers' money, and OVERTHREW the tables.” (John, 2:15)

Can you imagine God using a Whip to throw people out of the temple? And Overthrowing tables and Pouring Out changers money??
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“God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” (James, 1:13)
“But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews, 4:15)

CONTRADICTION. Can he be Tempted or Not? “God” needs to make up his mind...
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“And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom” (Luke, 2:40)
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.” (Luke, 2:52)

Can you imagine “God” increasing in knowledge? And growing in physique? He should be the ALL-KNOWING.
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“And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan” (Mark, 1:12-13)

Can you Imagine “God” being tempted by Satan??
-

“Jesus WEPT” (John, 11:35)

Can you Imagine a WEEPING GOD? God Crying??
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“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.” (Acts, 2:22)

This verse is saying that God performed miracles through Jesus and the people knew. This implies Jesus is not God, He is a mighty messenger of God, just like Moses or Abraham.
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“If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.” (John, 5:31)
“The Pharisees therefore said to him, You bear witness of youself; Your witness is not true.” (John 8:13)
Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true,” (John 8:14)

Jesus is saying that anyone that makes any CLAIMS to be God or anything so absurd it is NOT TRUE. He even says that about Himself!
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“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist” (Matthew 11:11)

Jesus “God” was born by a woman (Mary), and he is saying that John the Baptist is even Greater than Him??
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“And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.” (Matthew 11:14)

Jesus says that “so and so” is Elijah...

“And they asked him, What then? Are you Elijah? And he said, “I am not”. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No.” (John 1:21)

Then the people asked What then? Are you Elijah? He said “I am not”.
So does this make Jesus “God” a LIAR? Since when does “God” lie?
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“I can of mine own self do nothing” (John 5:30)

Jesus says by himself he can do NOTHING.

“With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.” (Mark 10:27)

But with God all things are possible. Jesus can only perform his miracles with the power and help of God. Just like all the prophets.

“For my Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)

Jesus says here, His Father (God almighty) is Greater than Him. How can “God” be greater than God?

-

All of this is proof that he (Jesus) is not God. All these verses tell us he’s Human.
So what makes him (Jesus) God?

I am a Bible scholar. I know the true meanings of the verses translated from the Hebrew and Greek language. Your problem is, you are reading the Bible text out of context and not really understanding the true meanings. Rather you are giving explanations and interpretations of what you believe it is on the face of it.

I am open for discussion. I am here to share my knowledge of the Bible.
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
Question is: Did Jesus claim to be God ?

Answer: Yes

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, thou are not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? v58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you (that means listen up dude) Before Abraham was I AM.

Mark 2:6-7 But there were certain scribes sitting there, and reasoning, in their hearts, v7 Why does this man speak blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God only?

Isaiah 43:3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy Savior.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am He that blotteth out transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Note: With other religions teachings are made just as teachings only like Buda did or through prophets like Mohamad but Jesus did not claim to be teaching mankind the truth but He Was the Truth.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God.....
The word God in Hebrew here was Elohim which is plural.
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Searchingtruth:

I am a Bible scholar. I know the true meanings of the verses translated from the Hebrew and Greek language. Your problem is, you are reading the Bible text out of context and not really understanding the true meanings. Rather you are giving explanations and interpretations of what you believe it is on the face of it.


To Searchingtruth:

You declare yourself to be a "Bible scholar" and so do the cult followers of the Watchtower Society, and they are just as much in error.

You had better go and check the validity of your faith and which Jesus of Nazareth you are believing in.

The Word of God reveals the Lord Jesus Christ from the foundation of the earth, He is the Creator, God manifest in the flesh, the I Am, and the Alpha and Omega.

Isaiah 9:
6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Many cults have denied the duality of Jesus of Nazareth, who was fully man and fully God, and in their denial of the fullness of God's Word, they make for themselves another "christ", and place their faith and trust in that which is false.

If you deny that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh truly God and truly man, then you deny the true doctrine of Christ and are certainly not a Brother in the Lord.

2 John 1:
9: Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10: If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Anybody who can rise up from the mount of Olives into the clouds of the sky in the sight of the disciples is God by implication.

Acts 1:9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Also the demons recognized Jesus from heaven when they called Jesus the Son of God, and Jesus did not deny it.

Matthew 8:29
And behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with you, Jesus, you Son of God? ...

You are a human and when a human has a son, your son is a full human will all the capabilities of a human.

Likewise, when God has a Son, the Son is a full God with all the capabilities of God the Father.

God the Father and God the Son can both do exactly the same things.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
CARETAKER...I trust that your last script was to Searching Truth.

1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bluefrog:
CARETAKER...I trust that your last script was to Searching Truth.

1 cross + 3 nails = 4 given

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quote:

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When Jesus “God” was “Crucified”. He spoke to God.

“My God My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?” (Matthew 27:46)

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Originally posted by SearchingTruth:
My Brothers, I suggest you read these two short books in the Link below to get a true understanding of the Bible and of Jesus. These 2 short books were written by the most, if not, one of the most eminent Scholars of the Christian Bible. This scholar has later on in his embraced Islam. The Holy Quran is quiet an amazing book. Islam believes in the original Old Testament and New Testament, and the Quran is believed to be the Last testament. It is a continuation of the Old and New Testament and religion was perfected and finalized in the Quran (The Last Testament).

1/5 of the population of earth are Muslims. Thus the Quran deserves recognition, we should out of respect at least read and understand it and see what it has to offer.

Two Short Books:

IS THE BIBLE GOD’S WORD?
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/BibleIntro.html
WHAT WAS THE SIGN OF JONAH?
http://www.jamaat.net/jonah/signofjonah.html


May Peace be on you

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Thank you for being honest here. At least now we have agreed that Jesus did not declare his divinity as son of God or God, but maintains he is son of Man.

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But when you say Jesus dies and resurrects and sits on the right hand side of his Father in heaven, this does NOT MEAN LITERALLY. It means that he is close to God.

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quote:

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It is like saying that you are my right hand, meaning close to me. Like I said before, in Hebrew these are METAPHORS, Not to be taken literally.

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We'll see what are metaphors and what are not.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge...

What you need is a good dose of fear of the LORD.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
SEARCHING TRUTH...You said you wanted proof that God inspired the scriptures.....

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness;

Are we invited to your baptizing ?
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:

To Searchingtruth:

You are not Searchingtruth but bringing doctrines of demons.


2 Timothy 3:
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


You are not Searchingtruth but bringing doctrines of demons.

You are not a brother but an infidel and seeking to deny the LORD GOD by usurping with the false god allah who is not the LORD GOD of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, Daniel, John, Peter, Paul, YHWH manifest in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth, fully man and fully God incarnate and bringing the TRUE WORD and the LIght of men.

You deny the Light and bring doctrines of destruction and abomination.

The Lord rebuke thee:

Matthew 7:
13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

You stand in condemnation before the LORD GOD already:

John 3:
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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You are not Searchingtruth but bringing doctrines of demons.
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
CARETAKER...Thanks for clearing that up.
 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Searching Truth,
You say that you believe in the original bible, the gospel of Jesus.......but you claim that there is no longer any record of this "original" gospel.

I am curious then...........how then could we possibly know how it is that we should be living our lives?

Is it then up to man to just make up his own truth since the "original truth" has vanished?

Do you bank on the assumption that God has chosen irresponsible leaders with the proper caretaking of His precious word?

I am assuming that since you claim that the four gospels are false that the book of 1John is also false......specifically 1John 5:10 which states...........
He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

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Posted by SearchingTruth (Member # 7510) on :
 
Brother Glory belongs to him,

I do not even have to go as far as opening the Quran to prove the Bible today is not the original. The SOURCE I am using is your own Bible and the explanations I am giving of the verses are what the SCHOLARS SAY, Not Me, but the scholars.

The Quran does Not teach against the Gospel. IN FACT, you are not a Muslim if you do not believe in the Bible and the Torah. Islam believes in all the Prophets of the Torah and the Bible.

Now brother, how can you preach a book and claim it is the Word of God, and you do not know about any other book. How can you preach to a Jew or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist, when you don’t know their books? Those religions also claim their books are the word of God...

Let me make it easier for you, there are Only THREE mono-theological religions on this earth. They are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. You probably know about Judaism already and of course Christianity... So all that’s left to learn is Islam. I am just asking you to read the Quran. I am not telling you to believe it, but as one who preaches, you need to know about other religions to be able to dismantle their book. I have studied the Old (Torah), New (Bible) and Last (Quran) Testament In-depth for many years now. I do Comparative religion. So PLEASE do not make adverse statements about ANY religion without knowing them.

Bluefrog,

This whole time I am trying to prove to you that God and Jesus are two Different Persons. The reason I brought up the Quran because it gives a Direct answer to this Question without confusion or contradiction. It is a Crystal Clear book.

People you are not getting my Drift here. I DO BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS AN ORGINIAL GOSPEL OF JESUS WHICH WAS THE WORD OF GOD, I DO BELIEVE. BUT WHAT I DO NOT BELIEVE IS TODAYS BIBLE. I AM NOT SAYING THE BIBLE TODAY IS COMPLETELY WRONG, BUT THERE ARE CHUNKS AND CHUNKS IN IT THAT HAS BEEN CHANGED, WHICH MAKES IT NOT THE WORD OF GOD ANYMORE. THE QURAN IS A BOOK THAT HAS BEEN PRESERVED FOR OVER 1400 YEARS NOW IN ITS ORIGINAL AND HAS NO CONTRADICTIONS OR CONFUSIONS IN ITS SCRIPTURES.

Therefore I am only suggesting you read it and see what this book has to offer. There are 1.3 Billion Muslims. The Two most competitive religions are Islam and Christianity. I have done my duty analyzing all three mono-theological religions. I am not here to argue with anyone about anything, just having a friendly discussion here, so please do not make bad comments about other religions. Have respect for them and their beliefs.

“Care”taker,

Please be “Care”ful about what you say about other doctrines. It is quiet immature and not nice to call other doctrines as demonic or whatever. Have respect for other people’s faith please. Thank you.

Oneinchrist,

I do believe in the message of Christ. But the issue here, and Jesus even says this. That his people were NOT FIT to receive his message. The Jews were very ignorant and stubborn people. They did not accept Jesus for what he was, so they CHANGED the doctrines according to their satisfactions. And they wanted to even Kill him. This shows that his message was not accepted, therefore the true message was never properly absorbed and preserved. This is why we get so many versions and revisions of the Bible today.

NOW let us see what solutions the Bible today has for humankind:

The Bible: This biggest Christian nation on this earth is America. And the most corrupt nation on this earth is America. According to statistics, there are nearly 40 million DRUNKARDS in America. 11% of the population in American commits INCEST. America has the Highest GAMBLING RATE, Highest CRIME RATE and Highest PRISON RATE. There are over 10 Million more women than men. If every man in American got married, there would still be over 10 million women who can’t get husbands, Yet there are over 25 Million SODOMITES (GAYS) in America, so over 35 million women in America can’t get Husbands... Also so much adultery is taking place in America. All of this similarly in Europe as well...

Now I am Asking you, what solutions does the Bible have for all this???

NOW let us see what solutions the Quran has to offer for all this:

The Quran: the Biggest Muslim nation in the world is in Indonesia (over 200 million Muslims). Indonesia has the Lowest Alcohol Consumption rate, Lowest Gambling rate, Lowest Crime rate, Lowest Prison Rate and the Highest Charity Rate. Islam allows you up to 4 wives, so that solves the problem of the Women over-populating men. There are Many Many more things Islam has to offer.

The Torah, Bible and the Quran are really the same book and one religion. The Quran is “The Last Testament”, the people were Open and Fit to receive the message and thus it was accepted and preserved. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World today. 100 thousand Christians convert to Islam every year in America alone!

Allah is not a Different God. He is the Father, He is the same God as Adam and Moses and Jesus and all the prophets and everything in this universe. He is the One and Only UNIQUE God and His name is Allah.

Quran:
“1. Say (O Muhammad): “ He is Allah, (the) One.

2. Allah – the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, (He neither eats nor drinks).

3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.

4. And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him”. (Chapter 112, The Purity)
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Matt.13

[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.



 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi again Searching Truth,
Please bear with me as we work through some issues together respecting each others views, but not necessarily agreeing with them all.
I have relatives who are Muslim. We have had good conversations together listening to each others side.
Obviously the biggest difference in beliefs between the Christian and Muslim are about Jesus......who He is. To the Christian the deity of Jesus is of vital importance as to our being able to come into the presence of God . The Old covenant sacrifice was a shadow of things to come. The earthly altar was only a copy of the heavenly. Since the heavenly altar was fashioned by God Himself it had to be purified with greater things than the blood of goats, bulls, etc. The Old Covenant law "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins" is a timeless law of the covenant between man and God. Muslims do not consider the covenant law, therefore; it remains a mystery to them that Jesus the Son of God came to fullfill it. Since Jesus was Holy and sinless He qualifies as the perfect sacrifice for the washing away of our sins.

I would agree with you that many Muslims live decent lives comparable to many professing Christians........but I would not say that the problem with the Christians is the bible itself. We need to understand that there are false Christians just like there are false Muslims........I know that people would argue over what that means, but we know that it has to be true.
The truth is that if most professing Christians took Jesus Words to heart, they would excel in every way above Muslim conduct. I do not mean that in an arrogant way, but in a way that gives honor to Jesus, our Lord, who's perfect love excels above any other mans.

One more thing I would like to adress concerning the difference between the bible and the Koran. The bible contains many witnesses whos accounts all line up with each other. The Koran is just one man giving testimony with no witnesses to lend crediblity to his words. To me that would be like being at a football game. You just missed a play because you were looking at the scoreboard. Then you hear the others around you describing the play that you missed. 5 people give the same account, but one guy tells it a little different. Are you going to believe the 10 eyes that were on the same play, or are you going to believe the two eyes that saw it different?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Now you ask what is supposed to be the response to this act of God. Men everywhere are commanded to repent. We must repent, and turn to God and His will with all our hearts. His general will is that we hear and obey Jesus, but our specific calling is under the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Dear Daniel,

Compromising the truth is never the answer.

Embracing tolerance is a gross overreaction and will undermine the clarity of the gospel message.

For Christ said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
First of all. "Allah" is NOT a name but a "Title"

Just as "God", "Lord", "Adoni", ect.. are all Titles. These are NOT Names.

The Muslims use of the word "Allah" is known to them as meaning "the god", and seems to be from the word "elah", which in Hebrew means "mighty one", BUT it is Not a name.

My God has a name and so does His Son. Not just titles. My God is a Personable God.

The arabs are the children of Abraham by his 1st wife Hagar, who lived apart from the tribes of Yisrael and became Pagans.

They worshipped hundreds of dieties. The big black "box" now called the Kabba was once filled with images of their dieties, one which was called "Allah".

"Islam" means "submisssion". Muhammad was born among the pagan Arabs, and converted to Yahudaism.

He was eventually ejected by the synagogue because of his violence. He sought to convert his mis-guided people from their Paganisim, but had to flee for his life from Mecca to his birthplace in Medina in CE 622, because the Arabs were dedicated to their idols.

This "flight" or "hejira", is the beginning point in the Islamic calander. When he was in his mid 20's, he organized a large band of followers and attacked the pagan hierarchy in Mecca and destroyed the idols in the Kaaba, replacing them with oil lamps.

A large black rock inside is believed to be a gift from an angel to their father Abraham, and the Kaaba is considered to be the holiest place on earth today by Muslims.

"Muslim" means "one who submits" and is based on the same word as Islam. He married an older woman in her 40's, Kadijah, who was a Roman Catholic nun. It is believed by many that she was sent to him by the Vatican, who taught him from the scrolls of the TaNaKh.

In these scrolls, there is a different "transposition" of the names Isaac and Ishmael, indicating that "the Covenant" was really with the 1st born son of Abraham, Ishmael.

This may have been with the purpose of causing the Ishmaelites to eventually rise up and re-capture the land of Yisrael from the Persians.

After the slaughter, Rome would make her move, which history shows she did, in the "Crusades".

The "sign" of the land Covenant is circumcision, which the Pagan Arabs did not practice. The Islams embraced praying to Mary because of Muhammads wifes dedication to her.

They considered Rabbi Yeshua to be a prophet, but they prayed to His dead mother!

The "sacred" writings of Islam are called the Koran (or Quran, from the Hebrew word "qara" for "Proclaim")

Muhammad instituted Islams "Sabbath" as 1 day before the 7th day, or what is called in the Greek calander "Friday".

The Ishmaelites and the Israelites are both "Hebrews", and are brothers, yet they fight over the land given to Abraham. The problem is really their difference of Religion.

The Romans re-named the land "Palestine", a Latinism for "Philistia", the land of the old Philistines, who came there as settlers. "They were "sea-people".

When we see the Arabs referring to themselves as "Palestinians", they are calling themselves "Philistines", as if their claim to the land Pre-dates the "Jews" because of this.

Yet, Genesis 21:34 states "Abraham SOJOURNED in the land of the Philistines many days". Obviously, Abraham wasnt a Philistine, so Neither was Isaac or Ishmael, his sons, were either.

The Ishmaelites lived in Arabia, hence their names arabs. They were the merchants who bought Yoseph who was carried off to Egypt and sold to Potiphar.

They face Mecca when they pray. When they rise up in their "jihad" (holy war) they are sometimes heard chanting "1st the Saturday people, then the Sunday people"!"

The object of Islam is control of the Whole Earth, and the extermination of the "unbelievers".

They control the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, so the focus remains being hostile towards their brothers, Even though No one is meddling with their "holiest" place in Mecca.

Yeshua spoke of the kingdom of Yahweh, and said "Few there are that find it/enter into it"

But "Many" will be turned away. So as far as "Islam" being the fastest growing or many joining this religion means absolutely nothing to me. I do not follow the "Masses" only I follow the King of kings and Lord of lords and His NAME is Yeshua meaning "Salvation" sent by the Father Yahweh meaning Yah saves.

In Him is Life, In Him is Truth, in Him is the Way back to the Father Yahweh, for there is no other name under heaven by which one can be saved.

But few there are that find Him. Shalom
and Baruch Ha Ba BaShem Adoni

Blessed is He who comes in the NAME of the Lord.

Who is He that comes in the Name of the Lord?

His name is Yeshua, He is the Messiah and He comes in His Fathers name Yahweh, Yah Saves!

HallaluYah!
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
Anyone see a sheep just walk by here ?
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bluefrog:
Anyone see a sheep just walk by here ?

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SearchingTruth you also asked can we imagine God humbling Himself. Well in a way He did.

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• Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
• Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

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Exactly brother... the Christians claim his divinity, but Jesus never claimed it, Jesus according to Christians is God incarnate, equal to the Father and equal to the holy spirit, yet they are all one... Three in One... I don’t know in what language this makes sense but this is the belief. 1 + 1 + 1 =1? No, 1 + 1 + 1 =3! There are 3 distinct mental pictures in your mind when you think of the three.

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• Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

• Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

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I am just asking you to read the Quran.

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searchingtruth!

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People you are not getting my Drift here. I DO BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS AN ORGINIAL GOSPEL OF JESUS WHICH WAS THE WORD OF GOD, I DO BELIEVE. BUT WHAT I DO NOT BELIEVE IS TODAYS BIBLE. I AM NOT SAYING THE BIBLE TODAY IS COMPLETELY WRONG, BUT THERE ARE CHUNKS AND CHUNKS IN IT THAT HAS BEEN CHANGED, WHICH MAKES IT NOT THE WORD OF GOD ANYMORE. THE QURAN IS A BOOK THAT HAS BEEN PRESERVED FOR OVER 1400 YEARS NOW IN ITS ORIGINAL AND HAS NO CONTRADICTIONS OR CONFUSIONS IN ITS SCRIPTURES.

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• Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
• Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
• Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

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The original sin was when Adam ate the fruit from the forbidden tree and as a result was kicked out of Heaven and was imprisoned on earth. Now Christianity believes that Every Child born carries the burden of Adams wrongdoing. Now is that fair? If a good child who is of the nicest people does not believe in Jesus dying for his “SINS” (the sin of Adam), he will burn in hell for a misdeed he did not commit? NO!

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• Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

• Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Have you ever read the bible searchingfortruth?
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Really! Oneinchrist.... In fact, if there are any flaws in the bible, they are there by design. Literally! For God is not weak. Neither is HE far away. He knows His business, and since HE said that "without faith, it is impossible to please God," well..... Let's face it. On the one hand He has given explicit proofs! On another, there are things which 'weed out' if you will, those who will choose to believe, from those who are looking for an excuse not to believe. It is a question of which, one will run with.
 

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Posted by The Beauty of Holiness777 (Member # 7380) on :
 
WOW! It's good to have brothers and sisters in the body of Christ that knows Scripture as Glory belongs to Him have said in a previous post.

There is a lot I wanted to say but seems as though all of you have just about covered it all.

Searching Truth I pray that God will open your mind to the truth. Nevertheless, learning means asking questions, hopefully you will learn enough about God's Word to set you free from doubt.

Love and peace to All!
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
SEARCHINGFORTRUTH...About a year ago, I met a guy who didn't know what he was. He was heavy reader and studied (as he claimed) all the religions. From that, he built his own religion. He went for reincarnation so he could work on improving himself, he did a lot of meditation, he saw himself as God within and then outside too sorta. For him to describe his beliefs it took a couple of pages of notes. He said the bible was a novel but had a confused God. He constantly lied about reading the bible but instead studied notes from athiest groups.
He also felt that a person must do a lot of research before they can determine the truth.

I asked him: If you are searching for the truth, how will you know when you find it ?
No other religion claims to be the truth but Jesus says He is the Truth. When truth is abandoned there is tyranny.
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
hello, bluefrog, you wrote to SearchingTruth

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...About a year ago, I met a guy who didn't know what he was. He was a heavy reader and studied (as he claimed) all the religions. From that, he built his own religion. He went for reincarnation so he could work on improving himself, he did a lot of meditation, he saw himself as God within and then outside too sorta. For him to describe his beliefs it took a couple of pages of notes.RE the part that I bolded, does it only take a few sentences for us to explain our belief?

bluefrog, you continued[quote] He said the bible was a novel but had a confused God. He constantly lied about reading the bible but instead studied notes from atheist groups.

He also felt that a person must do a lot of research before they can determine the truth.

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How did we know when we found the truth to be Jesus?

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I knew that I knew while reading the Word. But, only the Word the only variation was within the different bible believing denominations.

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John 8:32

You shall know the "Truth" and the "Truth" shall set you free.

Oh yes! Searching Truth I am not a brother 100% " a sister."
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
GLORY BELONGS TO HIM....

Thanks for telling us SISTER ! Nice to know we have some ladies here.
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Regarding the statement, "How did we know when we found the truth to be Jesus?", bluefrog wrote "from the Word" and I agree with that. It did take me a number of years to believe the Word, but thank God I eventually believed the Word and that Jesus was Who the Word said He was, and more.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
When a young person decides to join the armed forces it is most often to serve their country. Some join to get a little income but also for a college education.

When a person decides to turn their life over to God they also do it for more than just one reason. Some will do it for the right reason but some will do it to make themselves just feel good.

As a military training instructor, it was my job to take the young person with their positive attitude and show them how to become a military person and what the rules were. One of the main issues was discipline. If they did not learn to follow orders they were usually sent back home.
Being unable to follow orders could cause their own death and the death of others. The same applies to a new Christian. They can (shall we say) enlist, but then they need to go through Boot Camp. At the beginning of boot camp they will be given an instructor, we will call him Sergeant Holy Spirit. If the instructions of the Holy Spirit are ignored and rebellion sets in then it is decided that they were just fooling themselves and are sent back to where they came from. However, if the recruit wants to learn and will see and hear they will have a much better chance of survival and for those around them as well.

Onward Christian Soldiers !
 

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Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Bluefrog,
I would think that God would not even give the gift of "seargent Holy Spirit" to the new recruit that was not in it for the right reasons. I believe that God only entrusts the Holy Ghost to those who come to Him with a sincere heart ready to obey Him.

A boot camp instructor cannot tell (at least right away) who is in the service with a heart dedicated to serving this country and who is in it as kind of a sick joke..............but we know that is not the case with God. He sees into the hearts of men and He surely would not accidently give out the gift to a heart that has the wrong motive.
The book of Acts gives us a good example of a man who was baptized , but did not subsequently receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That would be Simon, the man who offered money for the Holy Ghost power. That is just one example of wrong motive........and I am sure that there are other wrong motives that would be similarly "selfish" in nature.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
bluefrog wrote

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At the beginning of [Christian] boot camp they will be given an instructor, we will call him Sergeant Holy Spirit.

If the instructions of the Holy Spirit are ignored and rebellion sets in then it is decided that they were just fooling themselves and are sent back to where they came from [given a discharge].

However, if the recruit wants to learn and will see and hear they will have a much better chance of survival and for those around them as well.

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I would think that God would not even give the gift of "seargent Holy Spirit" to the new recruit that was not in it for the right reasons. I believe that God only entrusts the Holy Ghost to those who come to Him with a sincere heart ready to obey Him.

A boot camp instructor cannot tell (at least right away) who is in the service with a heart dedicated to serving this country and who is in it as kind of a sick joke..............but we know that is not the case with God.

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I would think that God would not even give the gift of "seargent Holy Spirit" to the new recruit that was not in it for the right reasons. I believe that God only entrusts the Holy Ghost to those who come to Him with a sincere heart ready to obey Him.

A boot camp instructor cannot tell (at least right away) who is in the service with a heart dedicated to serving this country and who is in it as kind of a sick joke..............but we know that is not the case with God.

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Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
It is truly hard to explain to the understanding of an OSAS inclined individual. Every man can believe what he wants to believe and see where it leads him, for most believe what they want, and behave accordingly.

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It is truly hard to explain to the understanding of an OSAS inclined individual.

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Except, it is possible to know which way is right, for HE doesn't leave us in the dark!

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Except, it is possible to know which way is right, for HE doesn't leave us in the dark!

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EDEN...That reminds me, did you ever read Mark 13?

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I already told you that after I have read Mark 12, I always skip directly to Mark 14.

love, Eden
 

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Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on :
 
EDEN...someday when you have nothing else to do you should try reading Mark 13.

Meanwhile, here is a little something for you..
 

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Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Well professor, show me thy credentials. Oh! You just did? Well, you just answered your own query:

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2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, but which they who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Michael Harrison wrote
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Except, it is possible to know which way is right, for HE doesn't leave us in the dark!

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Well yew sed

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Well, as the TV judge said today, "somebody's lying!" It is true that God does not want to leave us in the dark, but what happens when neither the OSAS nor the non-OSAS side know for sure which side is actually true, and so for now we have two sides, and we may not know until Jesus comes. There are several things that I need to ask Jesus about, already.

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Except, it is possible to know which way is right, for HE doesn't leave us in the dark!

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Yet, I didn't say it. "I AM" says it! Here is a little 'proof', yet one can find more:
[LIST] (Mar 4:11) "And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are 'without', all these things are done in parables:"

In that Jesus said, "unto them that are 'without'," He is meaning those who are outside looking in. Therefore it can be understood that one is not 'in' if he doesn't understand. That should be a second clue! Want another There have been hundreds already!
 

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