Christian Message Boards: This meeting in the air is an apantesis

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Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet {Greek, apantesis} the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Dr. James McKeever, for one, has pointed out that the Greek word for meet in 1Thes.4:17 above is the word apantesis.

This word occurs only 4 times in the NT (see Strong's 529), and means to go out to meet an arriving person, and then TO TURN AROUND and ACCOMPANY THAT PERSON BACK TO WHERE WE CAME FROM.

A good example of how apantesis works is found in Acts 28:15, where the Christian brethren of Rome heard that Paul was coming toward Rome, and so the brethren left Rome and came as far out of Appii Forum to meet {Greek, apantesis} the oncoming Paul:

Acts 28
14 Where we {the oncoming Paul} found brethren, and were desired to tarry with them seven days: and so we {the oncoming Paul} went toward Rome.

15 And from there, when the brethren {of Rome} heard of us, they came to MEET us as far as Appii forum, at The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

16 And when we came to Rome, the centurion delivered the prisoners to the captain of the guard: but Paul was suffered to dwell by himself with a soldier that kept him.

So we see the brethren went from Rome to Appii Forum, where they met or apantesis with Paul, and then the brethren turned around and accompanied Paul back to Rome.

Let me now apply this use of apantesis to 1 Thes.4:17:

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet {Greek, apantesis} the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

That is, when the Lord comes toward the earth at the Second Coming, we are caught up from the earth to meet or apantesis the Lord in the air, and then we turn around and accompany the Lord back to the earth where the Lord is headed.

When that catching up occurs, we therefore do not go to heaven, but we accompany the Lord back to the earth in our glorified bodies.

The other two instances in the NT where this word apantesis occurs are Matthew 25:1 and 25:6:

Matthew 25
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet {Greek, apantesis} the bridegroom.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom comes; go out to meet {Greek, apantesis} him.

These two verses from Matthew 25 refer to the same event as that described in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 at the top of this Topic.

love, Eden

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

It's eis apantēsin

epeita hEmeis hoi zOntes hoi perileipomenoi hama sun autois harpagEsometha en nephelais eis apantEsin tou kuriou eis aera kai houtOs pantote sun kuriO esometha

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NLT)
Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

G529
apantēsis (ap-an'-tay-sis)

From G528; a (friendly) encounter:—meet. To meet coming from different directions. A meeting. (Matt. 25:1, 6; Acts 28:15).

In 1 Thess. 4:17, the expression eis (unto) apantēsin (meeting) indicates that the Lord will be coming from one direction and we shall be coming from another to meet together in the air.

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :

Carol Swenson writes

quote:
In 1 Thess. 4:17, the expression eis (unto) apantēsin (meeting) indicates that the Lord will be coming from one direction and we shall be coming from another to meet together in the air.

Exactly. The Lord will be coming from heaven with a shout and we will be coming from earth. Then we do not pass each other like Michael Harrison suggested, but we, who are now also in our glorified bodies, join the army of the Lord and go down with the Lord to the earth, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet {apantesis} the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Note that when this apantesis occurs, we are ever with the Lord. So that means the Lord and we either return to heaven, or we go together to the earth.

And I submit that the meaning of apantesis in Greek is "to go forth to meet an oncoming Important Person and then WE TURN AROUND and go where the Important Person was going", namely the earth for the second coming of Jesus.

Malachi 4:3
And you shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, says the LORD of hosts.

If we were going to heaven, how could we be treading on the ashes of the wicked? Therefore we apantesis-meet the Lord in the air in our just glorified bodies and we join the army of the Lord on its way down to earth, but now we are in our glorified bodies too, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

love, Eden

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

quote:
This word occurs only 4 times in the NT (see Strong's 529), and means to go out to meet an arriving person, and then TO TURN AROUND and ACCOMPANY THAT PERSON BACK TO WHERE WE CAME FROM.

Why would someone meet someone in the air, and 'return'. It makes less sense than a screen door on a submarine or a glass floor on a ranch style home. I surely believe that we go up, HE comes down, then HE ministers to those all around.

Cauz i mean, we could've just stayed down and HE coulda met us on the ground. That would surely bring us no frown. But we coulda greeted HIM on the mound, cuz that might be where HE could be found. Do you not think that is zound!

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :

Because there is 7 years between meeting Jesus in the air and coming back. During the tribulation, are works will be judged and we will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Then we will return with Jesus to reign with Him on earth.

My daughter flew to Washington to help us move. She flew up there only to start the drive back the next day. So you can see there is a reason for going somewhere only to return.
betty

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :

Jude.1

[14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

[15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
[16] These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
[17] But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
[18] How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

First, it is important to recognize the purpose of the Tribulation . According to Daniel 9:27, there is a seventieth “week” (7 years) that is still yet to come. Daniel’s entire prophecy of the seventy weeks (Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth week, the Tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the Rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The Rapture is God removing His people from the earth . A few verses later in 5:9 Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the Tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the Tribulation . It would seem inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth during the Tribulation . The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

Another crucial passage on the timing of the Rapture is Revelation 3:10. There, Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things: (1) Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or (2) Christ will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept “from.” It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the Tribulation. The purpose of the Tribulation, the purpose of the Rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the Pretribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the Pretribulational position is the most Biblically consistent interpretation.

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

[Frown]

quote:
A few verses later in 5:9 Paul says, “For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

This verse is concerning the eternal judgment of God. It is about those who abide in the Ark being saved from hades, and separation from Him. It would be inappropiate to apply it to Rev 3:10. If one doubts this, they should consider how that those who were fed to the lions were not spared from anything. Neither were the desciples who were crucified.

The 'rapture' paints a rosey picture of 'escaping'. However, our Lord paints a rosey picture of "Overcoming." How will such an one who is looking to 'escape' manage to 'overcome', which is a requirement to be saved?

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :

I disagree. The tribulation will be when God pours out his wrath on those who have rejected Him. The Bride(the Church) will miss the tribulation.
betty

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
I disagree. The tribulation will be when God pours out his wrath on those who have rejected Him. The Bride(the Church) will miss the tribulation.
betty

You're right Betty.

And the word "salvation" has more than one meaning.

Salvation

G4991
σωτηρία
sōtēria

Definition:

1) deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation

1a) deliverance from the molestation of enemies

1b) in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the souls safety or salvation

1b1) of Messianic salvation

2) salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

3) future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Gk. ek

Out of, from, by, away from

It doesn't say He will keep us during the hour or through it, He says from it!

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :

Yes Yahweh God wll pour His wrath out, not only on those who reject Him, but also on those who persecute His saints.

For there will be such tribulation as has never been, and who will be those being persecuted during the tribulation?

Who will the anti-christ go after and chop off their heads and kill them with the sword? It will be those who love their lives NOT, even unto death. And it will not only be the Jewish believers, but others from other tribes and nations.

For John saw Myrids coming out of the Great Tribulation, from every tribe, tongue and nations, having their robes washed white with the blood of the Lamb.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

1 Thessalonians 5:1 - 11 (NLT)
1Now concerning how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters, we don’t really need to write you. 2For you know quite well that the day of the Lord’s return will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night . 3When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape. 4But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief . 5For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night. 6So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be clearheaded. 7Night is the time when people sleep and drinkers get drunk. 8But let us who live in the light be clearheaded, protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation. 9For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. 10Christ died for us so that, whether we are dead or alive when he returns , we can live with him forever. 11So encourage each other and build each other up, just as you are already doing.

It's true that a multitude that no one can number will come to faith after the Rapture and during the Tribulation. If they survive to the end of the seven years, then they will be the "sheep" in the Matthew 25 judgments. The Jewish believers will be the "brethren".

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :

I'm back. I'm getting into showing my Cavies, (oh and in my first show I won five first place and one Best of Breed award) so I've been a bit busy.

This is a great topic. I would like to put a bit of a spin on it though. I would like to pose this subject another way also.

If the people went out to meet Paul, shouldn't we be doing the same to other and for others? I think that it's just as important to to unto others as it is to do unto the Lord. It's also something that we don't do enough of today.

How many of you (myself included) are willing to go out of your way for another? How many are willing cross the water just to minister to one person? Jesus did.

If I see someone in the church that is hurting, lonely, elderly, going through a divorce, or maybe even about to have a child, do I go out of my way to help them? Unfortunately, not as much as I should. I would do just about anything for anyone, yet at the same time I don't look for the chance to help others that may be in need.

What stops us from reaching out to others? Fear, shyness, business, laziness....ect... We either make excuses or just look the other way without realizing it.

Someone once asked me what it means when I read the story about Jesus getting in the boat and crossing the water just for the sake of one person being led to the Lord. That same person asked, "If Jesus goes out of his way for the sake of one, shouldn't we?"

I know this may sound off topic in a way, but it really isn't. I saw someone in the church that was hurting and asked for help, yet got turned away. I saw a woman whose husband had an affair and she was asked to leave the church so they could minister to him and this woman was hurt so deeply that I don't think she ever went to a church again. Several people have told me recently of ways they have been hurt by people in the church. I guess the burden that has been resting heavy on my heart lately is that of taking care of others in the church. I didn't know what to say to the woman whose husband had an affair, nor did I know at the time that she was asked to leave the church. However, if I would have gone to her house to meet her, I may have made a difference in her life and she may not have left churches completely.

If I lend a listening ear to someone who is hurting by meeting them where they are and walking back to church with them, they may have felt differently about how they were treated in the church.

I really think it's time we start becoming more sensitive to the needs of others and reaching out to those around us. For some reason, when I read these posts, the thought that kept coming to me was that of walking to meet others, just as we would walk toward meeting Jesus or even Paul if we knew he was coming. If I knew Paul was coming I would be preparing food, my house and meeting him as soon as possible because I was so anxious to see him. Shouldn't we be like that with others also?

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :

Rev 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I will keep you 'from' the temptation which is to try the world. What temptation tries the world? It is to deny Christ. We will be kept from denying Christ.

Why, now the scholars cannot even be sure if the seven years is seven years. And one thing is certain about prophecy, that we realize that it was true, 'after' it has passed.

Why is it important that people not put 'faith' in a rapture? This sentence tells it plainly, the keyword being 'faith'. Moreover, the faith of many will wain as time goes on. People who have faith in a rapture will have misplaced faith. But Jesus is a hiding place. That will not be misplaced faith.

Look at the victims of 911. They didn't escape the wrath which is to come.

I just think that the rapture theory 'usurps' the message of the church. For the message is not 'rapture', rather it is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And scripture says "Whosoever, whether angels or another preach to you another gospel that thay which you have heard, let them be accursed." Rapture is not gospel. It is another gospel besides Christ crucified, and raaised from the dead.

Posted by Keith (Member # 6840) on :

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

quote:
I will keep you 'from' the temptation which is to try the world. What temptation tries the world? It is to deny Christ. We will be kept from denying Christ.

The KJV is one of the very few that translates the word as "temptation".

YLT:
10‘Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

NRSV:
10Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

NKJV:
10Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

NCV:
10You have obeyed my teaching about not giving up your faith. So I will keep you from the time of trouble that will come to the whole world to test those who live on earth.

KJV:
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

ISVNT:
10Because you have kept my command to endure, I will keep you from the hour of testing that is coming to the whole world to test those living on the earth.

ESV:
10Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

DNT:
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial , which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

ASV:
10Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial , that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

RSV:
10Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

MSNT:
10Because in spite of suffering you have guarded My word, I in turn will guard you from that hour of trial which is soon coming upon the whole world, to put to the test the inhabitants of the earth.

NASB:
10‘Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

ICB:
10You have followed my teaching about not giving up. So I will keep you from the time of trouble that will come to the whole world. This trouble will test those who live on earth.

NLT:
10“Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.

CEV:
10You obeyed my message and endured. So I will protect you from the time of testing that everyone in all the world must go through.

HCSB:
10Because you have kept My command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come over the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

TEV:
10Because you have kept my command to endure, I will also keep you safe from the time of trouble which is coming upon the world to test all the people on earth.

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :

quote:
I just think that the rapture theory 'usurps' the message of the church. For the message is not 'rapture', rather it is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And scripture says "Whosoever, whether angels or another preach to you another gospel that thay which you have heard, let them be accursed." Rapture is not gospel. It is another gospel besides Christ crucified, and raaised from the dead.

It is Christ returning for His own to take us to Heaven, and yes it is Biblical. The Old Testament isn't about the crucifixion. In fact, there are many topics that don't specifically mention the crucifixion, but they are all Biblical.

The challenge of the rapture

Because of this glorious coming event, the child of God is instructed to do many things.

1. He is to attend the services of the Lord regularly.

“…not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another; and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching” (Heb. 10:25).

2. He is to observe the Lord’s Supper with the rapture in mind.

“For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord’s death till he come” (1 Cor. 11:26).

3. He is to love believers and all men.

“And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men… to the end he may stablish your hearts…at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints” (1 Thess. 3:12, 13).

4. He is to be patient.

“Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts; for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh” (Jas. 5:8).

5. He is to live a separated life.

“…we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself…” (1 Jn. 3:2, 3).

“…denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:12, 13).

“And now, little children, abide in him, that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming” (1 Jn. 2:28).

6. He is to refrain from judging others.

“Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall every man have praise of God” (1 Cor. 4:5).

7. He is to preach the Word.

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word…” (2 Tim. 4:1, 2).

“Feed the flock of God… and when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away” (1 Pet. 5:2, 4).

8. He is to comfort the bereaved.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven… wherefore comfort one another with these words” (1 Thess. 4:16, 18).

9. He is to win souls.

“Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire…” (Jude 21-23).

10. He is to be concerned with heaven.

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory” (Col. 3:1-4).

(Willmington's)

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :

Betty Louise wrote

quote:
I disagree. The tribulation will be when God pours out his wrath on those who have rejected Him. The Bride(the Church) will miss the tribulation.

Betty, when Israel was in the land of Goshen in Egypt, Israel also missed the tribulation. But the tribulation was going all on around them:

Exodus 9
24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.

26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.

Exodus 10
22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:

23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings.

Exodus 11
6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that you may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.

Betty Louise, what happened to Israel in Egypt is a picture of what will happened to the church in the last days.

The wrath of God will be on all unbelievers, but upon the believers the wrath will not come, just as happened to Israel in the land of Goshen.

God is not taking us OUT of the world; no, God is leaving us IN the world so that God can show that He makes a DIFFERENCE between the unbelievers (Egypt) and the church (Israel in the land of Goshen).

Thus will God be glorified, not by taking us OUT of the world, but by leaving us IN the world and then MIRACULOUSLY PROTECTING US, just as God did with Israel.

Isaiah 54:14
In righteousness shall you be established: you shall be far from oppression; for you shall not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near you.

Psalm 91:7
A thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it shall not come near you.

love, Eden

Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :

Good Post Eden! I agree with all you have said.

I also want to add that when Yeshua said He was going to PREPARE a place for us, I believe this is the New Jerusalem, coming down to earth from heaven.

Rev 21:2

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming Down out of heaven from God, PREPARED as a bride adorned for her husband.

Posted by Keith (Member # 6840) on :

The Egyptians suffered the plagues, not tribulation. The Israelites were persecuted by the Egyptians, this was their tribulation. God's people have always, and will always suffer persecution and tribulation at the hands of the wicked, but they do not suffer the plagues of God's judgement.

So it will be in the end also. God's people will be persecuted, and suffer tribulation, but they will be delivered by the plagues, which is God's judgement upon those who worship the beast. The end of the plagues is the end of this world and Christ's personal return.

Y. b. in C. Keith

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :

Keith wrote

quote:
The Egyptians suffered the plagues, not tribulation. The Israelites were persecuted by the Egyptians, this was their tribulation. God's people have always, and will always suffer persecution and tribulation at the hands of the wicked, but they do not suffer the plagues of God's judgement.

So it will be in the end also. God's people will be persecuted, and suffer tribulation, but they will be delivered by the plagues, which is God's judgement upon those who worship the beast. The end of the plagues is the end of this world and Christ's personal return.

hmmm, good point, Keith.

love, Eden