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Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
To correctly understand scripture, we must understand to who the various scriptures are meant for. The "Old Covenant" was between Israel and God. Jesus was a Jew, and His message was to them, Israel. (Matt.15:24). Only Pauls epistles are for the Gentiles.
It eliminates the many errors occured by assuminf all scripture is about us.
All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is ABOUT us.


Correctly Cutting the Word of Truth

2 Timothy 2:15
There is a good rule to follow for finding out what a text or a section or a chapter or a book means.
It is attributed to both Miles Coverdale and John Wycliffe. It is worth knowing and should be copied
into one's copy of the Bible for constant reference and for constant application to all studies made
of the Sacred Scriptures. Here it is:

THE GOLDEN RULE OF SCRIPTURE INTERPRETATION

"It shall greatly helpe ye to understand Scripture,
if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrytten,
but of whom, and to whom, with what words,
at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances,
considering what goeth before and what followeth after."

Greek
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the
word of truth. K.J.V.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed,
rightly handling the word of truth. R.S.V.

Give diligence to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
handling aright the word of truth. A.S.V.

Be diligent to present thyself approved to God-- a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the
word of the truth; Young's Literal

Endeavor to present yourself to God qualified, an unashamed worker, correctly cutting the word
of truth. Concordant Literal

Earnestly seek to commend yourself to God as a servant who, . . . has no reason to feel any shame.
because of his straight-forward dealing with the word of truth, Weymouth

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed
and who correctly handles the word of truth. N.I.V.





Circumcision Scriptures
Concerning the Kingdom of God, in Fulfillment of the Hebrew Scriptures

MATTHEW PRESENTS THE KING
Say to the daughter of Zion, "Lo! Your King..."
- Matthew 21:5

SENT TO ISRAEL

"I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
- Matthew 15:24

MARK PRESENTS THE SERVANT
"The Son of Mankind came, not to be served, but to serve..."
- Mark 10:45

WHO SERVED ISRAEL

"Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord."
- Mark 12:29

LUKE PRESENTS THE PERFECT MAN
"Really, this Man was just."
- Luke 23:47

THE GLORY OF ISRAEL

"The Glory of Thy people Israel."
- Luke 2:32

JOHN PRESENTS THE SON OF GOD
"He came out from God, and is going away to God."
- John 13:3

MANIFESTED TO ISRAEL

"that He may be manifested to Israel..."
- John 1:31

ACTS PRESENTS THE TRANSITION
"To you (the Jews) first was it necessary that the word of God be spoken. Yet since ... you are thrusting it away ... lo! we are turning to the nations."
-Acts 13:46

HEBREWS - A NEW COVENANT WITH ISRAEL
"Lo! the days are coming," the Lord is saying, "And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house
of Judah a new covenant."
- Hebrews 8:8

JAMES - SALVATION BY WORKS
The faith cannot save him.
- James 2:14

APPLICABLE TO THE TWELVE TRIBES

James ... to the twelve tribes in the dispersion.
- James 1:1

PETER'S PROMISES TO THE CHOSEN RACE
Yet you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation...
- 1 Peter 2:9

JOHN STRESSES THE LAW
And in this we know that we know Him, if we should be keeping His precepts.
- 1 John 2:3

TO THOSE WHO CAME OUT

they came out for the sake of the Name, getting nothing from those of the nations.
- 3 John 7

JUDE - A REMINDER TO THOSE ONCE AWARE
to remind you, you who once are aware of all, that the Lord, when saving the people out of the land of Egypt,
secondly destroys those who believe not.
- Jude 5

REVELATION - JEWISH PROMISES FULFILLED
"I have granted to those... (who are saying that they themselves are Jews, and are not, but are lying)
Lo! I shall be making them that they will be arriving and worshipping before your feet, and they may
know that I love you."
- Revelation 3:9



Uncircumcision Scriptures
Concerning the Body of Christ, The Mystery Hidden in Past Ages

Paul Presents Christ to the Nations

"But, on the contrary, perceiving that I have been entrusted with the evangel of the Uncircumcision,
according as Peter of the Circumcision ... James and Cephas and John ... give to me and Barnabas the
right hand of fellowship, that we, indeed, are to be for the nations, yet they for the Circumcision."
- Galatians 2:7-9 -

The Evangel for Today
"To me, less than the least of all saints, was granted this grace: to bring the evangel of the
untraceable riches of Christ to the nations, and to enlighten all as to what is the administration
of the secret, which has been concealed from the eons in God."
- Ephesians 3:8-9 -

ROMANS-JUSTIFICATION, CONCILIATION
through Whom we obtained grace and apostleship for faith-obedience among all the nations...- Romans 1:5

But now, apart from law, a righteousness of God is manifest...- Romans 3:21

Being justified gratuitously in His grace...- Romans 3:24

seeing that out of him, and through Him and for Him is all...- Romans 11:36

their (Israel's) casting away is the conciliation of the world...- Romans 11:15

God locks up all together all in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.
- Romans 11:32



1 CORINTHIANS - THE BODY OF CHRIST
but we are speaking God's wisdom in a secret, which has been concealed, which God designates before
the eons for our glory ...
- 1 Corinthians 2:7

Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part, whom also God, indeed, placed in the ecclesia,
- 1 Corinthians 12:27

For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. ...
that God may be All in all.- 1 Corinthians 15:22,28



2 CORINTHIANS - A NEW CREATION
So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has become new!-
2 Corinthians 5:17

Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the
conciliation, how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses
to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation.
- 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

GALATIANS - FAITH, NOT WORKS OF LAW
I am marvelling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred, from that which calls you in the grace of Christ,
to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you, want to distort
the evangel of Christ.- Galatians 1:6-7

we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ; and not by works of law;
seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified.
- Galatians 2:16

did you get the spirit by works of law or by the hearing of faith...?
- Galatians 3:5

For whoever are of works of law are under a curse,
- Galatians 3:10



EPHESIANS - SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among
the celestials...
- Ephesians 1:3

Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh ... were, in that era, apart from Christ, being
alienated from the citizen- ship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation,
and without God in the world.
- Ephesians 2:11-12

Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ.
- Ephesians 2:13

On this behalf I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you, the nations -- since you surely hear
of the administration of the grace of God that is given to me for you, for by revelation the secret
is made known to me: in spirit the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and joint partakers
of the promise
- Ephesians 3:1-6

PHILIPPIANS - OUR REALM IN THE HEAVENS
For our realm is inherent in the heavens, - Philippians 3:20

that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean,
and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father.
- Philippians 2:10-11



COLOSSIANS - CHRIST THE HEAD
And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, ... and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace
through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.
- Colossians 1:18-20

which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God--
- Colossians 1:25



1 THESSALONIANS - MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR
for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command ... and the dead in Christ
shall be rising first. Thereupon we, the living ... shall at the same time be snatched away together with
them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.
- 1 Thessalonians 4:16



2 THESSALONIANS - BE NOT QUICKLY SHAKEN
be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be alarmed, either through spirit, or through word, or through
an epistle as through us, as that the day of the Lord is present. ... should not the apostasy be coming first ...?
- 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

1 TIMOTHY - SAVIOUR OF ALL
For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, a Man, Christ Jesus, Who is giving Himself a
correspondent Ransom for all ... for which I was appointed a herald and an apostle ... a teacher of the
nations in knowledge and truth.
- 1 Timothy 2:5-7

Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome (for for this are we toiling and being reproached),
that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
These things be charging and teaching.
- 1 Timothy 4:9-11



2 TIMOTHY - WHO SAVES US AND CALLS US
in accord with the power of God, Who saves us and calls us with a holy calling, not in accord with our acts,
but in accord with His own purpose and the grace which is given to us in Christ Jesus before times eonian,
10 yet now is being manifested through ... the evangel of which I was appointed a herald and an apostle and
a teacher of the nations.
- 2 Timothy 1:8-11



TITUS- SAVED ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY
Yet when the kindness and fondness for humanity of our Saviour, God, made its advent, not for works which are
wrought in righteous- ness which we do, but according to His mercy, He saves us ...- Titus 3:4-5



PHILEMON - THE CONDUCT OF GRACE
I am thanking my God always, ... that the fellow- ship of your faith may be- come operative in the
reali- zation of every good thing which is in us for Christ Jesus ... seeing that the compassions of
the saints are soothed through you, brother. - Philemon 6







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This publication may be reproduced for personal use
(all other rights reserved by copyright holder).


Blessings, Jerry.
 
Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
The OT is not for us? Uh, Duh, I mean, if we are grafted into the Tree, how would it not be that we are a partaker of the roots? Duh. "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but by the circumcision of the heart, inwardly." How is one circumcised in the heart? By the word of God. That takes us all the way back to the beginning. And since Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, well, never mind. "The [all] scriptures are given by 'inspiration of God, and are profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction on righteousness. 2 Tim 3:16. See also John 3:16. All scripture?

Was Jesus in the words of the Old Testament? Can we learn of Him there? Do we not understand Him better by Seeing HIs working in the OT? For faith cometh by hearing. And that qualifies. For his dealings with Israel are chronicled within.

Don't be sore with me jerry. But I think He is the Alpha and the Omega. I think that means that He is the Genesis to Revelation.

And how would we know sin, but by the law. Rom. That means that the OT is profitable for instruction, correction, reproof and doctrine.

Or, maybe I just misunderstood you. Sorry!
 
Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
The OT is not for us? Uh, Duh, I mean, if we are grafted into the Tree, how would it not be that we are a partaker of the roots? Duh. "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but by the circumcision of the heart, inwardly." How is one circumcised in the heart? By the word of God. That takes us all the way back to the beginning. And since Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, well, never mind. "The [all] scriptures are given by 'inspiration of God, and are profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction on righteousness. 2 Tim 3:16. See also John 3:16. All scripture?

Was Jesus in the words of the Old Testament? Can we learn of Him there? Do we not understand Him better by Seeing HIs working in the OT? For faith cometh by hearing. And that qualifies. For his dealings with Israel are chronicled within.

Don't be sore with me jerry. But I think He is the Alpha and the Omega. I think that means that He is the Genesis to Revelation.

And how would we know sin, but by the law. Rom. That means that the OT is profitable for instruction, correction, reproof and doctrine.

Or, maybe I just misunderstood you. Sorry!

Hi Michael, if you notice, I said "All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is ABOUT us. (may have been in another thread) Of course we are to learn about what God is doing by reading "all" His word. This is very impotant, but see Eph.2:11-12 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations in flesh -- who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands --
12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world.
So obviously, these messages were to the "Jews", still under the "old covenant" and the "law", we gentiles were not included in that era. So you see, now we are not under the law, but under the covenant of "Grace".

God Bless, Jerry.

PS. Yes, Jesus is the "Alpha and the Omega". The beggining of creation (Rev.3:14 God's creative Original), and the consummation of creation (1.Cor.15:24 ...thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, ...)
 
Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
quote:
To correctly understand scripture, we must understand to who the various scriptures are meant for. The "Old Covenant" was between Israel and God. Jesus was a Jew, and His message was to them, Israel. (Matt.15:24). Only Pauls epistles are for the Gentiles.
It eliminates the many errors occured by assuminf all scripture is about us.
All scripture is FOR us, but not all scripture is ABOUT us.


THE GOLDEN RULE OF SCRIPTURE INTERPRETATION

"It shall greatly helpe ye to understand Scripture,
if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrytten,
but of whom, and to whom, with what words,
at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances,
considering what goeth before and what followeth after."

You are absolutely correct. My mind did not absorb that. I guess the Spirit knew that, and that is why I apologized already. But on that part concerning "Marking what is wrytten," etc. it is just saying to consider the whole context. But perhaps there is more to consider, such as the situation, and the interaction just to name two. For our situation will be similar, and therefore the interaction will also be. Therefore the meaning will be clearer.

I choose for example when Paul spoke of casting down imaginations. We hear people day-in, and day-out speaking of casting down their imaginations as though it is an instruction to them to do so. However, the passage, if taken in context indicates that Paul would cast down their imaginations. And so he explains his position, in that he is seated with Christ in the Heavenlies, and he has the perspective that those to whom he is speaking, do not. He appeals to them to recognize it. They don't! So he says that he will cast down their imaginations which, if considered in context, 'blind' them from the full relationship which they think that they already have.

They should listen to Paul, if for nothing else, to consider if there is something that they are missing. For it is not unlike a coaching situation which we would have in any sport, or dance. Someone who has the objective view sees where the one being coached is missing being completely in 'form', which prevents them from realizing the best that is available to them.

Yet in true misapplication, whatever people thought then, I don't know, but we see that nowadays they interpret his words to mean that themselves are to cast down imaginations. This is one of the most famous and more easily recognizable illustration of this same miscutting of the word.

[we the apostles, who are called into a place wherein we are also to direct you]




 
Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
Hi Michael, thanks for your reply. I'm not sure of the scripture that you say Paul speaks of "casting down imaginations...". Let me know which one it is if you will. Thanks,

Blessings, Jerry.
 
Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
 
Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
Hi Michael & Betty.
I'm not sure what this scripture means, I have included these verses from the "Concordant Version": 2Cor.10:4-6.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful to God toward the pulling down of bulwarks;
5 pulling down reckonings and every height elevating itself against the knowledge of God, and leading into captivity every apprehension into the obedience of Christ,
6 and having all in readiness to avenge every disobedience, whenever your obedience may be completed.
Perhaps you could explain to me what you believe it says.

Blessings, Jerry.
 
Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
2 Corinthians 10:4-6

NLT:

4We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ. 6And after you have become fully obedient, we will punish everyone who remains disobedient.


YLT:

4for the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful to God for bringing down of strongholds, 5reasonings bringing down, and every high thing lifted up against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of the Christ, 6and being in readiness to avenge every disobedience, whenever your obedience may be fulfilled.


NRSV:

4for the weapons of our warfare are not merely human, but they have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments 5and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ. 6We are ready to punish every disobedience when your obedience is complete.


TMSG:

4The tools of our trade aren’t for marketing or manipulation, but they are for demolishing that entire massively corrupt culture. 5We use our powerful God-tools for smashing warped philosophies, tearing down barriers erected against the truth of God, fitting every loose thought and emotion and impulse into the structure of life shaped by Christ. 6Our tools are ready at hand for clearing the ground of every obstruction and building lives of obedience into maturity.


NKJV:

4For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.


NCV:

4We fight with weapons that are different from those the world uses. Our weapons have power from God that can destroy the enemy’s strong places. We destroy people’s arguments 5and every proud thing that raises itself against the knowledge of God. We capture every thought and make it give up and obey Christ. 6We are ready to punish anyone there who does not obey, but first we want you to obey fully.


KJV:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


ISVNT:

4For the weapons of our warfare are not those of the flesh. Instead, they have the power of God to demolish fortresses. We tear down arguments 5and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey Christ. 6We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when your obedience is complete.


ESV:

4For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.


DRB:

4For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty to God, unto the pulling down of fortifications, destroying counsels, 5and every height that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God: and bringing into captivity every understanding unto the obedience of Christ: 6and having in readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience shall be fulfilled.


DNT:

4For the arms of our warfare [are] not fleshly, but powerful according to God to [the] overthrow of strongholds; 5overthrowing reasonings and every high thing that lifts itself up against the knowledge of God, and leading captive every thought into the obedience of the Christ; 6and having in readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience shall have been fulfilled.

ASV:

4(for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the casting down of strongholds), 5casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ; 6and being in readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience shall be made full.

RSV:

4for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.


MSNT:

4The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons, but are mighty for God in overthrowing strong fortresses. 5For we overthrow arrogant ‘reckonings,’ and every stronghold that towers high in defiance of the knowledge of God, and we carry off every thought as if into slavery—into subjection to Christ; 6while we hold ourselves in readiness to punish every act of disobedience, as soon as ever you as a Church have fully shown your obedience.


TEV:

4The weapons we use in our fight are not the world’s weapons but God’s powerful weapons, which we use to destroy strongholds. We destroy false arguments; 5we pull down every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God; we take every thought captive and make it obey Christ. 6And after you have proved your complete loyalty, we will be ready to punish any act of disloyalty.


GWT:

4The weapons we use in our fight are not made by humans. Rather, they are powerful weapons from God. With them we destroy people’s defenses, that is, their arguments 5and all their intellectual arrogance that oppose the knowledge of God. We take every thought captive so that it is obedient to Christ. 6We are ready to punish every act of disobedience when you have become completely obedient.
 
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
chosenone wrote
quote:
Jesus was a Jew, and His message was to them, Israel. (Matt.15:24)
But even more specifically, Jesus same to Israel-Judah (the southern kingdom), and not so much to Israel-Ephraim (the northern kingdom) since Israel-Ephraim had been carried away by Assyria around 721 B.C. and NEVER returned to the land of Israel-Ephraim.

So Israel-Ephraim NEVER got to see Jesus NOR His miracles. Only Israel-Judah got to see Him and His miracles:

John 1
11 He came to His own, but His own received Him not.

But, God will again deal with Israel-Ephraim and bring them together again with Israel-Judah in the land of Israel, and THEN Israel-Ephraim will get to see Jesus in action for the first time.

love, Eden
 
Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
2Co 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base [kindof a dud] among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2Co 10:2 But I beseech you [to understand], so that I may not [have to] be bold when I am present, with that [same] confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some who think of us, as though we walk according to the flesh.

[Cross] You see, the believers thought that Paul was just another pontificator, who wanted to go around giving instructions. They thought that he was self-elected, and was just being self-important. They didn't think that he had a deeper and more profound revelation of Christ than they did, therefore they were not inclined in the slightest to hear him. But he was 'seated in the heavenlies with Christ', and spoke 'by' Christ, literally, by his abiding in Christ. And so he therefore says:

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [though we walk in a natural body, we are not carnal, but spiritual, by God]
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal [man's invention, as though he learned it at a community college] but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
[which prevented them from coalescing with their God. And the apostles worked through the Spirit of God, not the heirarchy of man's institutions, and by the "Power" of God, 'touched' others spiritually, demonstrated, and imparted spiritual things to them, and so on. However, the requirement that those having been saved, be humble, and be receptive had to be in effect for them to receive, or in the piousness of their imagination they would literally resist the very Spirit of God, while thinking themselves 'enlightente'. Of course they were enlightened, but they stopped along the road, rather than becoming 'as enlightened' as God their Lord desired. Again, God 'chose' to speak through Paul to the edification of those who were willing]

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [so the postles set about by the Spirit, and their knowledge of the word, to cast down the imaginations of those who stubbornly resisted God by the error of their thinking, which was carnal, though not apparent to them as such]

2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. [Then, when the lay people were complete in Christ, the postles were ready to catch any vestage of unbelief that would cause the newly enlightened to stumble, so that they would be strong in the faith of what was the proper way of believing and walking, not swayed by every wind of doctrine]


2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [The postles had to defend their position. For the naysayers thought that they themselves knew Christ the way that they were supposed to, but the postles knew the masses were deceived by the flesh, and carnal suppositions which robbed them of the 'full' revelation of Christ, from which they could benefit. So the Apostles made that point to them that they didn't know, as yet they should, which is the whole reason God gave the apostles]

2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, [In the Spirit of Christ] and not for your destruction, [because he was building up, and not tearing down, though the hearers didn't feel that way] I should not be ashamed:
2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful;[his letters cut to the quick, were to the point, and spared nothing, about relationship with Christ] but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.[Evidently Paul was timid, and weak, and also perhaps, physically scrawney]
2Co 10:11 Let such an [defiant] one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, so will we be also in deed when we are [there] present [by the power of the Spirit].
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. [This is exactly what the Corinthians were doing to 'justify' themselves in their knowledge, which they thought was as good as the next guy's. It was just pride, which was one of the imaginations that Paul was to knock down, if anyone would know Christ personally. They were comparing themselves with their own knowledge, rather than directly with Christ's knowledge. This means that after they 'got saved' there was more to discover than what they got already, when they 'got saved'. There was this relationhsip which Jesus sought for all of His, which still needed to be discovered. But instead of listening to Paul, they were inclined instead to build churches, start a choir, see how God was going to 'prosper' them, teach others already (even though they were not adequate to teach), and it goes on.]

[Prayer] That is why Paul had to write to them this way. They wouldn't listen to reason, and defeated what Paul said. So demonstration of the Spirit's power was necessary for them to be shaken into wakin! And it remains so today! That is why these epistles are preserved unto now!

But nowhere in there did it say for the believer to cast down his imaginations. They were simply to approach Christ by faith, and their imaginations would dissipate as a result of this obedience.
 
Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 
More importantly, imo..

We were grafted into Christ, the King of the Jews.
 
Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
Hi Zeena.
You say...We were grafted into Christ, the King of the Jews.
I have not seen this in scripture, can you please show me where? Thank you.

Blessings, Jerry.
 
Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
I'm not Zeena, but here goes...


Romans 11:17 - 21 (NLT)
17 But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. 18 But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root. 19 “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” 20 Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. 21 For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t spare you either.
 
Posted by chosenone (Member # 7272) on :
 
Hi Carol.
I agree, the Gentiles were grafted into Abrahams tree, which were Israel. Not as stated by the previous post, into Jesus. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Blessings, Jerry.
 
Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
The olive tree (vv. 16b-24).

This is a symbol of the nation of Israel (Jer. 11:16-17; Hosea 14:4-6). Please keep in mind that Paul was not discussing the relationship of individual believers to God, but the place of Israel in the plan of God . The roots of the tree support the tree; again, this was a symbol of the patriarchs who founded the nation. God made His covenants with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and He cannot deny them or change them. Thus, it is God’s promise to Abraham that sustains Israel even today.

Many of the Jewish people did not believe. Paul pictured them as branches broken off the tree. But he saw an amazing thing taking place: other branches were grafted into the tree to share in the life of the tree. These branches were the Gentiles. In Romans 11:24, Paul described this “grafting in” as “contrary to nature.” Usually a cultivated branch is grafted into a wild tree and shares its life without producing its poor fruit. But in this case, it was the “wild branch” (the Gentiles) that was grafted into the good tree! “Salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

To say that the olive tree, with its natural and grafted branches, is a picture of the church would be a great mistake. In the church, “there is no difference”; believers are “all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). God does not look on the members of Christ’s body and see them as Jews or Gentiles. The olive tree illustrates the relationship between Jew and Gentile in the program of God. The “breaking off of the branches” is the equivalent of “the fall” (Rom. 11:11), “the diminishing” (Rom. 11:12), and “the casting away” (Rom. 11:15). To read into this illustration the matter of the eternal destiny of the individual believer is to abuse the truth Paul was seeking to communicate.

Paul warned the Gentiles that they were obligated to Israel, and therefore they dared not boast of their new spiritual position (Rom. 11:18-21). The Gentiles entered into God’s plan because of faith, and not because of anything good they had done. Paul was discussing the Gentiles collectively, and not the individual experience of one believer or another.

It is worth noting that, according to Bible prophecy, the professing Gentile church will be “cut off” because of apostasy . First Timothy 4 and 2 Timothy 3, along with 2 Thessalonians 2, all indicate that the professing church in the last days will depart from the faith. There is no hope for the apostate church, but there is hope for apostate Israel! Why? Because of the roots of the olive tree. God will keep His promises to the patriarchs, but God will break off the Gentiles because of their unbelief.

No matter how far Israel may stray from the truth of God, the roots are still good. God is still the “God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob” (Ex. 3:6; Matt. 22:23). He will keep His promises to these patriarchs. This means that the olive tree will flourish again!

(Wiersbe)
 
Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chosenone:
Hi Carol.
I agree, the Gentiles were grafted into Abrahams tree, which were Israel. Not as stated by the previous post, into Jesus. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Blessings, Jerry.

Romans 11:20,21
Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t spare you either.
 
Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 
DOH*
 




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