quote:

---

Gods view of who is a child of God or a child of the devil is found at 1 John 3- It says - (It is impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.) - so then if one is practicing 1 sin he is a child of the devil. Sin = worship to satan.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eden
But that the old man will sin again is evident from the following:

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit lusts against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would.

Romans 7
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

While we are in our first Adamic body, we will still sin to the extent that we are NOT listening to what the Holy Spirit says. Only what God/Jesus says to us thru the Holy Spirit is not sin; all else is sin:

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

2 And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But that which is born of God cannot sin. This is not referring to the whole bornagain Christian but to what the Christian says and does. If it comes from the Holy Spirit, it guaranteed cannot be sin.

love, eden

---

quote:

---

Our Enemy--The Flesh
By John Woodward
November 29, 1999
A plaque still hangs in a room at our church listing those from the congregation who died in World War II. When our children were recently asked by their school teacher to list any relatives who died in a military conflict, thankfully we had only one name to mention.

When there are minimal military conflicts for a generation or two we may assume that there is an absence of spiritual conflict as well. Nevertheless, the Bible warns the believer in Christ to be on guard against spiritual enemies-- especially the world (human society arranged in hostility to God-1 John 2:15,16), the flesh (Gal 5:17), and the devil (1 Pet 5:8). It would severely handicap a soldier if he could not identify the enemy!

Likewise, imagine a boxer climbing into a ring with several others, yet not knowing who his opponent was. The first unexpected punch would alert him! Paul was aware of an enemy we all have. Comparing himself to an Olympic athlete, he wrote: "And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified [for the prize]." (1 Cor 9:25-27).

The struggle is not merely with the body (which God originally created as good - Gen 1:31), but with what the New Testament calls "the flesh." We will never jettison the flesh until we are with the Lord: "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish." (Gal 5:17). Peter warns us "Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul." (1 Peter 2:11).

But how do we identify "the flesh"? When used in an ethical sense it refers to the wrong beliefs, values, behavior patterns, and mental/emotional programming that we have learned independently of God. Michael Wells defines "the flesh" as your "body, mind, will, and emotions under the influence of anything other than Christ."

A vital point of interpretation is to see the flesh as distinct from the old man (the unregenerate human spirit). "Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him. . ." [therefore out of the picture] (Rom 6:6). Yet the flesh remains as an enemy: "For I know that in me (that is, IN MY FLESH) nothing good dwells . . ." (Rom 7:18, emphasis added). The flesh patterns are like a Trojan horse, lurking inside to betray and defeat us if permitted.

Because we have the Holy Spirit indwelling us as believers, we are no longer "in the flesh" as our position, YET STILL HAVE ITS UNHOLY INFLUENCE. "So then, those who are IN the flesh cannot please God. But you are not IN THE FLESH but IN THE SPIRIT, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Rom 8:8,9, emphasis added). In other words, "The believer, though he is no longer IN THE FLESH, may yet walk AFTER THE FLESH. The flesh is no longer a permanent POSITION for the believer, but it is an all too frequent CONDITION. (Gems and Jargon, by Charles Solomon and H. David Clark, p.10).

Did you ever wonder why King David, a "man after God's own heart", could fall into the the sins of adultery and murder (2 Sam 11)? Yes, David repented deeply and was restored to fellowship with God (2 Sam 12; Psalm 32; 51), but the following chapters illustrate the sad truth that "whatever a person sows, he shall also reap." David still had "flesh" waiting to rob him of the prize. When he let his guard down, and exposed himself to temptation, he fell.

Michael Wells points out the necessity of abiding in Christ to have power over the flesh: "It took me years to realize that I--that is, my flesh--am never going to get better. When I am not abiding, the flesh is the same as it has always been: hostile to God. That is why we teach a moment-by-moment victory and ultimate improvement, Christ in us." ("Lifelines", Nov.1999, p.17)

Joseph exemplified the Biblical strategy to avoid fleshly sin. When tempted by Potiphar's wife, he refused to even be near her in private; when caught by her, he left his garment in her hand and ran! (Gen 39:6-13). Likewise we are given this strategy: "Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart." (2 Tim 2:22). "But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Rom 13:14).

And Who is our power source? - the Holy Spirit. "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16).

In the "threshold of the mind" we can avoid the snares of the flesh because we have been set free by Christ's cross (Gal 5:24). So, in practical terms, how could you visualize guarding yourself from the flesh? "Fleeing" can mean: not keeping alcoholic beverages in your home; not parking in front of the donut shop; disconnecting cable TV; getting an internet filtering program. . . It also helps to have an accountability friend. As Proverbs 27:17 says "As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."

The positive responsibility to live above the flesh is to ABIDE IN CHRIST (John 15:1-8). Oh the benefits abiding! "Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God." (Matt 5:8).

We have been "punched" by the flesh enough. Let us wise up to the identity and tactics of this crafty enemy; it is no match for the indwelling Christ!

JBW

Nov. 29, 1999. Vol.2, #48

Notes: This distinction between the "old man" and "flesh" was stated in the Heidelberg Catechism A-43 back in AD 1566. See also Birthright, by David Needham pp. 239-258

The concept of the "threshold of the mind" is developed by Anabel Gillham in Bill & Anabel's Victorious Christian Living cassette album from Lifetime Guarantee Ministries (http://www.lifetime.org).

Lifelines by Michael Wells is available at Abiding Life Ministries (http://www.abidinglife.com).

Gems & Jargon is available by Grace Fellowship (http://SolomoNet.org).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kjw47:
Gods view of who is a child of God or a child of the devil is found at 1 John 3- It says - (It is impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.) - so then if one is practicing 1 sin he is a child of the devil. Sin = worship to satan. I guess that is why Jesus told the people who he cured- Go sin no more - Because he meant exactly that. God knows we all are sinners, some slip at small things now and then, others keep on doing the same sin over and over( Jesus did not die for that kind of sin, unless one turned around and repented and stopped doing sin, a practice God expects from us 24/7 with our whole heart, soul and mind. We surely do not want to be the ones whom Jesus spoke of at Matt 7, 21-23 ( here these are christians who were told they were saved),These did powerful works in Jesus name, yet Jesus ( judgement day ) tells them that he never even knew them, because they were workers of iniquity ( practicers of sin ) And at 1 John 3 God numbered the amount he allows = 0 ( of practiced sin ) no wonder - the road is narrow and cramped, few will find it. - It takes listening to Jesus when he said- Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance of God- 24/7

---

quote:

---

The Perfected and Progressive Aspects of the Believer's Sanctification
By John Woodward
August 12, 2005
A Biblical Outline

I. In one sense, the regenerated believer has already been sanctified (positionally and spiritually).

A. Believers are designated as holy (about 60 times in the NT).

1 Cor 3:17: "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are."

Col 3:12: "Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;"

1 Thess 5:27: "I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren."

Heb 3:1: "Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus,"

1 Pet 2:5: "you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

1 Pet 2:9: "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"

Rom 1:7: "To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

Rom 16:2: "that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also."

Rom 16:15: "Greet Philologus and Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints who are with them."

B. Sanctification is based on being in Christ.

1 Cor 1:30: "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption."

C. Sanctification is based on the completeness of the New Covenant.

Heb 10:10: "By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

D. This complete aspect is usually known as "positional sanctification." However, I believe this complete aspect of holiness as also based on the nature of the believer's spirit as made holy through union with Christ.

2 Cor 5:17:"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

1 Cor 6:17:"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."

Eph 4:24:"... the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."

II. Sanctification is also a continuing process and responsibility. The believer's soul and bodily actions are to be conformed to the indwelling Christ (Rom 8:28,29).

A. Progressive sanctification is indicated by admonitions to holy behavior (via bodily actions).

Rom 6:13,19: "And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God ... I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness."

Eph 5:8: "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light."

1 Peter 1:15: "but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,"

2 Pet 3:11: "Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,

2 Cor 6:17,18: "Therefore 'Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.'"

B. Progressive sanctification is indicated by admonitions to develop holy character (in the soul, i.e. mind, will, and emotions).

Eph 4:24: "and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."

Col 3:12: "Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;"

1 Tim 2:15: "Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control."

Titus 1:8: "but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,"

Jas 1:2,3: "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience."

Rom 5:3-5: "And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us."

C. Progressive sanctification is indicated by admonitions to devotion (in the soul).

Rom 12:1: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service."

Heb 12:14: "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:"

2 Cor 5:15: "and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again."

1 Pet 3:15: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;"

D. Progressive sanctification is indicated by Christ's intercession for His people.

John 17:17: "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth."

E. Progressive sanctification is implied in the believer's holy calling.

1 Thess 4:7: "For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness."

2 Tim 1:9: "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,"

F. The progressive aspect of sanctification refers essentially to the believer's soul and body.

2 Cor 7:1: "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. "[In the Greek there is no definite article before 'spirit'; this admonition refers to spiritual issues, not a progressive holiness in the regenerated human spirit].

2 Tim 2:20-22:"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

2 Tim 3:16,17: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Heb 12:10: "For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness."

Heb 10:14: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

2 Cor 3:18: "But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

2 Peter 3:18: "but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen."

G. This progress in holiness is experienced through cooperation with God's grace through the indwelling Christ.

John 15:4,5: "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."

Gal 2:20: "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

Philippians 2:12,13: "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

Titus 2:11,12: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,"

III. Sanctification will be perfected when the redeemed are with the Lord after this earthly life.

A. The Holy Spirit, Who has sealed the believer, is the pledge of ultimate sanctification and glorification.

Eph 4:30: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Rom 8:22,23: "For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body."

B. The past, present, and future aspects of the believer's sanctification are interrelated.

1 John 3:1-3: "[past/present] Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God;

[future] and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

[present] And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure."

1 Thess 5:23,24: "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For further reading on this topic, see Grace Notes: "Three D Sanctification,"The Believer's New Heart," and "Growing in Grace." Regarding trichotomy, see "Man as Spirit, Soul, and Body: Implications for Biblical Counseling" under this site's section: Theological Papers.

Copyright 2005 by John Woodward. Permission is granted to reproduce this outline for non-commercial use. GraceNotebook.com. Scripture quotations are from the New King James Version of the Bible [Thomas Nelson].

---

quote:

---

Testimony of Lynn Alford
By Lynn Alford
September 13, 2002
"As a Bride Adorning Herself with her Jewels"

It started at a picnic -- our call is to feast abundantly on Jesus (see Isaiah 55:2), so I now can see that a picnic was a perfect place to begin this feast that was to be greater than I could ever imagine. I had been a Christian for three years at this point and some friends and I were talking about Jesus together. Suddenly I felt that all my words were too much about me and not enough about Him. I felt extremely awful and removed myself from the conversation as soon as I politely could. I felt very confused -- what were these terribly self-denigrating feelings? I was a Christian now -- these self-accusing feelings seemed incongruous with the fact of my being forgiven in Him, but they were so strong I felt disoriented and could not ignore them even as I could not understand them.

At my next quiet time when I could discuss this disorientation with my Lord, I heard, "You will not be able to help seeing this darkness of your lack -- just keep your eyes on Me, the Light; focus on Me, not on this darkness." I couldn't figure out what this was all about, but I was somehow comforted in the middle of this upset by this impression that He spoke me to my heart.

For three days I continued to feel disgusted with myself, but I did what my Lord told me to do, I kept directing my attention back to Him. The third day I had to go to the Christian bookstore to buy a birthday gift for my mother.[1] As I was looking for a book for her, I saw one with a very poor title: The Christian's Handbook to Happiness.

I thought, "No wonder we Christians are not taken more seriously when we use such terrible titles for our books! Christianity is not about being "happy," but about the ultimate issues of God, like righteousness, truth, and justice!" Leaving my irritation and appalledness, I continued looking for a book for my Mom, but my eyes kept being riveted back on that "appalling" cover. Finally, not being able to keep my eyes off of it, I was drawn to pick it up. I opened the book and there in that very section I read the exact description of what I had been going through!

The author, Charles Solomon, spoke of how we would do anything rather than let God reveal our need to us. He said that we think we have arrived where God wants us when we are born again, fully committed, but that what He desires above all is to bring us to this place -- and he went on to describe in amazing accuracy where I found myself feeling-wise. I had been dealing with this very issue, my utter wretchedness in myself. Solomon went on to say that we would prefer to give all our possessions away, or become missionaries, or do anything else but this: allow Him to remove the veil that covers our eyes and let us face this most frightening place of seeing our utter need because it is so terrifying. We think, he continued, that because we are born again we can now serve God and He will help us to tidy up our life to please Him. But this is far from the Truth.

What we need to see is that we are no more able to serve God now as Christians than we could before were Christians. We need to receive a revelation of the reality that our lives are no more acceptable or pleasing to Him now than when we were just self-serving people living only for our own pleasures. This means that what we need above everything is to see that Jesus Himself is our very own new Life, the only LIFE that can please our God or ever will please God -- His Own Life given as a gift to us by the union of our spirit with His.

"Do you not know that he that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 6:17). "For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:30,32).

This is why the image of the bride is in the title of my testimony article. I was receiving the revelation of this mystery -- of what it means that we are the bride of Christ. I have come to see how we are to go on growing in grace by deeper revelations [illuminations] of who Jesus is to us -- our very Life -- and then go on to ever more deeply seeing Him in every facet of our lives, taking on by faith His multifaceted and lovely grace Reality even as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. It is this very thing that Isaiah 61:10,11 is describing: "I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, as a bride adorns herself with her jewels ... so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations."

The book's author, Charles Solomon, goes on to say that we need to receive Jesus as our Life in the same way we have as we received Him as our Savior from our sins -- up close and personally. We were not just saved from hell, and we were not just saved to go to heaven, but we are most deeply saved by our Heaven, Christ, now residing within us. Heaven has come to us. Jesus who is True Life has come to us and is presently this Life Eternal in us. So, he explained, we need above all to pray a "selfer's prayer." (This kind of prayer is parallel to the "sinner's prayer" that first issued us into the Kingdom.)

Our deepest need is to see this New Life, Jesus Christ, is our very own. And we need to see Him intensely, to see what it means that Jesus is THE Life, the ONLY Life in us from the moment we were born again. Instead we have thought that God's only purpose was to start us up with our own life tidied up so we could begin to get things right this time, and walk being on friendly terms with Him and serving Him by doing good things in a good way. (Actually what we most desperately needed was to live by a totally different kind of life, the only Life, Jesus Himself -- God's Way and Truth and Life.) He's told us this clearly, but we don't get it at first, even after being born of His Spirit.

We need this revelation from Him, and He's imparting it to us as fast as we'll receive it. Of course, I bought the book immediately and read the entire thing within a day or so. I was overjoyed and full of awe at what my Father had done for me. And, of course, I also prayed that "selfer's" prayer" that Solomon talked about. I rejoiced and delighted in my restored peace and rest -- in Him who is my Peace and Rest -- and in the wonderful new revelation of what it meant to be born again from above. We, in fact, must and do live by the Life that Jesus has come into us to be. I prayed that prayer long before I finished the book. Here is my version of it:

"Jesus, You have brought me to this place, the place where I am ready to acknowledge I do not have what it take to live the Christian life of myself. I am not pleasing enough, holy enough, strong enough, good enough, kind enough, loving enough, or anything else enough- in fact, I am simply not enough. But I praise You that You are and that You have come to be the very Life I have always needed and will always need. I take You now as my very own Life Eternal. Thank You that You are all that I need, my All in all, just like my Father has told me You are. I did not see this before, and yet You are even more than this, and I delightfully anticipate Your continuing to reveal to me ever more and more deeply what it means that You are indeed my Truth, my Life and my Way! I release myself into Your Hands and Spirit and Life. Yes and amen to You in whom all my Father's promises are ever and always 'Yes and Amen!' O, Yes!"

Now I will share a bit more about what happened next.

First, I began talking to everyone I knew about this wonderful reality that Jesus is to us, but no one was able to understand or receive it for the next three years. There is still a mystery in God's timing in giving this revelation to Christians -- some have had to wait until the full glory of heaven has burst upon them upon leaving this time and space place before they have been able to see their real identity in Jesus. But within a year after I first had this revelation of Christ as my True Life, I began to feel a fire in my bones and I was greatly puzzled over it also. What was this fire? What was it that God wanted? I had the distinct sense that I was to cry out about something. What? These were the questions that were pouring through my mind on this particular morning in 1981.

It seemed to me that there were other Christians already declaring everything about God that to be needed to be declared: the need to be born again, the need for the power of the Holy Spirit, the reality that God can still heal us today. Many were preaching on all these things. Then why did I feel that something was yet needing to be said? At this time I had been reading through the entire Bible sequentially, a few chapters at a time, day by day, as I have done six or seven times since then. On this day I was reading in Isaiah 40.

I began asking God to please explain what this fiery sensation was, and then went on to do my daily reading in the Scripture. I found the words: "And I heard a voice say, 'Cry'' And I said, 'What shall I cry?' And the voice said, 'Cry that all flesh is as the flower of the field that fades and the leaf that withers, but the Word of the Lord endures forever.'" I had not yet realized the crying need for this Word of Jesus as our very Life to go forth. I only knew I hadn't heard this message anywhere else before, and that no one I knew personally at the time had received it either.[2] But as I read these words of Isaiah, I heard the Lord speak plainly within my heart, "I have called you to be an evangelist to evangelized, to clearly tell the Good News of My Life in them to those who already know the Good News of My death for them."

And then I saw it! He made me realize that too many Christians knew only the first half of His Good News, which is what the word Gospel means, but they were woefully ignorant -- as I had been -- of the second half and even more wonderful part of that same Good News! They knew Jesus had died for them, but not that He lives for them. This second half is the very purpose of the first! Jesus died on the cross for our sins that He could be raised from the dead for us and on our behalf so He could live in us as our Resurrection! This is what Jesus means when He says, "I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE" (John 1:25). And this is what the Spirit is saying in Romans 4:25: "He was raised for our justification."...

This passionate fire has remained in my being as a fiery flame for the past nineteen years now -- to be available and ready to share with the hungry and hurting Christian our Hope of Glory who is Christ our Life, our very All in all, and the wonderful depths of His Life which He has shown me up until now.

This revelation will continue to go deeper and deeper as long as we live on this side of Heaven -- even as it has for me almost weekly, if not daily, since I first began to comprehend that He is my true Life. And it will continue to be ever more wondrous to us for all eternity!

Father has continued to do this revelational work of His among many of those I now know and fellowship with. And I have met many others, scattered here and there around various states and countries, whom He is taking into the unfathomable depths and glories of Christ and His Life in us. [3]

It's almost been twenty years since that church picnic. There are now many to whom I have had the thrill of declaring this complete Gospel and have entered into this Wonder-Life of Christ -- the Utter Good News of our existence. And I have had the profound gift of hearing person after person who has done so declare with joy, "I never knew that Christ was this good! My entire life is radically different and unspeakably more glorious now that I know Him as my very Life! This is just too wonderful!"

If you have not had this reality burst upon you, you surely will, though it sounds as mysterious as the whole concept of being born again sounded before you were a Christian. Jesus has told us that He came so we could have this very thing: "Life and Life more abundantly." This is that "more Abundantly."

It is now reported that it took a minimum of ten times of hearing the first half of Gospel before the typical Christian was able to receive it. I have found that it can take six or ten years or more for some to come to a real revelation of this second half of the Gospel that Jesus is their true Life; and yet it can take only a single declaration for others. It is for this reason that Paul said that he was always and ever passionately praying for the Christians he knew to receive this revelation; and he explained how he prayed and prayed that "the eyes" of their understanding would be opened" that they might know what is "the riches of the glory" and receive "the spirit of Wisdom and Revelation in the Knowledge of Christ" (Ephesians 1:17).

This is our greatest need and most sublime joy -- to KNOW HIM, our LIFE! This is the prayer that I now pray for all the Christians I now know who have yet to begin to walk clearly in their own glorious Inheritance of Eternal Life. And above all this is what Jesus prayed for us in His highest prayer in John 17 as He prepared to go to the cross. He says He died to give all that He has and all that is to us: "That they all may be one; as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me. And the glory which You gave me, I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one" (John 17:21,22).

I have gone on to discover a multitude of such believers and teachers throughout every phase of Church history, and many even now who declare this Glory of our Christ and His Life to us and in us, though I have to say that most Christians have yet to receive Him as their real Life.

This is a revelation of such glory and magnitude that Father has kept it until now as part of His plan of wrapping up this time and space realm now that we are so close to the very end of the ages ... "the mystery ... has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:26,27).

[1] The third day is a significant number. I can also see now that this timing speaks so much of Him, pointing to the fact that He, Himself, was three days in a tomb. Even so, the Lord let me be three days in this "wretched man" state that Romans 7 teaches about -- "O wretched man that I am!")

[2] [There are cases where the message of our identification with Christ has been proclaimed to us from the pulpit or in print prior to our discovery and appropriation this wonderful Truth, but -- for some reason -- we did not recognize it at the time. -J.B.W.]

[3] About six years ago I wrote a book called "O Glorious Inheritance" that has thirty of these specific glories of His, and those thirty were only a small percentage of the ones I had seen or written out but could not include for the sheer magnitude of them ... and those thirty now only represent a miniscule part of the ones I have seen since! Now I see that the entire Bible declares this wonder, verse upon verse, line upon line, depths upon depths, for we are not capable of seeing Jesus' multifaceted glory and graced Life all at once. It, He is, in fact, unplummable, just as Father says in Ephesians 3:8: "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach the unsearchable riches of Christ." It is not possible to get to the place where you've seen all of the wonders that He is to us and in us! Not now, not ever!

This testimony is used by permission. Edited by J.B.W.

Lynn's web site is dedicated to declaring the good news of Abundant Life in Christ. "Angel Eye Services" (Colossians 3:11) " target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/angeleyes13[/QUOTE]
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 

quote:

---

(It is impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.) - so then if one is practicing 1 sin he is a child of the devil.

---

Fortunetely God is merciful. Otherwise we would all be damnedded. Every one! But the point is that there is a floatation device. Even better than the floatation device, is to be in the Ark. (Sharks, remember!) What is regrettable is that so many have no concern. They take it for granted that they are ok. But though wb would dissagree, "Whatsoever doth make manifest is light." That means that the word exposes where we are in darkness. Therefore we are to 'repent' into the light, or continue to 'abide' in the darkness. Regrettable. And all the while one will be making 'excuses'. (Sharks, remember? Don't let them take you out.)

"Whom the Son sets free is free indeed." To sin? No! But free from it they are. So if one chooses it, that is not freedom.

Again, thank God that He is merciful. For who would be saved? However, to accept failure as inevitable, or the norm, is to 'miss the boat' (Ark!).

And why concentrate so much on sin? It seems to be the only way to illustrate how that one is short of - the free gift! For sin is short of the free gift.

Amen!
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Harrison:

quote:

---

(It is impossible for a child of God to practice even 1 sin.) - so then if one is practicing 1 sin he is a child of the devil.

---

Fortunetely God is merciful. Otherwise we would all be damnedded. Every one! But the point is that there is a floatation device. Even better than the floatation device, is to be in the Ark. (Sharks, remember!) What is regrettable is that so many have no concern. They take it for granted that they are ok. But though wb would dissagree, "Whatsoever doth make manifest is light." That means that the word exposes where we are in darkness. Therefore we are to 'repent' into the light, or continue to 'abide' in the darkness. Regrettable. And all the while one will be making 'excuses'. (Sharks, remember? Don't let them take you out.)

"Whom the Son sets free is free indeed." To sin? No! But free from it they are. So if one chooses it, that is not freedom.

Again, thank God that He is merciful. For who would be saved? However, to accept failure as inevitable, or the norm, is to 'miss the boat' (Ark!).

And why concentrate so much on sin? It seems to be the only way to illustrate how that one is short of - the free gift! For sin is short of the free gift.

Amen!

---

Romans 6:1
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Hi, Michael Harrison, I pulled this off a Zeena post which quote she attrbuted to you:

quote:

---

Fortunately God is merciful. Otherwise we would all be damned. Everyone! But the point is that there is a flotation device. Even better than the flotation device, is to be in the Ark. (Sharks, remember!) What is regrettable is that so many have no concern. They take it for granted that they are ok.

---

Dear Michael Harrison, regarding the bolded part, if you are saying that about the unsaved world, that is of course true:ember!)

quote:

---

What is regrettable is that so many have no concern. They take it for granted that they are ok.

---

But if you are saying this to members of the family of God, it is misplaced. You or I may not agree with everything a member of the family of God thinks and thus has said, but he or she does have concern because they are saved. They are saved if they are in the family of God; so we need to be careful how we talk to them because it is God who teaches them.

So if you are referring to the world with your statement:

quote:

---

Fortunately God is merciful. Otherwise we would all be damned. Everyone! But the point is that there is a flotation device. Even better than the flotation device, is to be in the Ark. (Sharks, remember!) What is regrettable is that so many have no concern. They take it for granted that they are ok.

---

If you say that to the unsaved world, it is true; if you are saying that to a member of the family of God they have their flotation device: Jesud who died for them. So you should not speak to lightly of members of the family of God, in my opinion, so as to say: "What is regrettable is that so many have no concern."

Michael Harrison, I share you amazement that much of the church does almost nothing to further the work of God, but you cannot say that to anyone who participates on this internet Bible forum. As WildB said, "God wrote in His book of remembrance those who often spoke of Him among each other".

That's everyone on this BBS, even when we disagree with a part of two of someone's post, or that's all we read (for our personal preferences).

with love to all, Eden
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Hi, Basically i was trying to share the importance of putting Gods kingdom first in the choices we make on a daily basis and the only way to do this is to learn and live by every utterance with our whole heart, soul, and mind. Afterall to be a christian, means to be christlike. And Jesus lived every moment to do the will of God, above his own will. The learning every utterance takes years of hard study. it was true knowledge Jesus spoke of at John 17:3
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Which of us truly know that we are saved? Gods word teaches-- Those who endure until the end will be saved ( this is the bottom line of being saved ) The christians mentioned at Matt 7, 21-23 were told they were saved, and they surely believed in Jesus and loved him enough to do powerful works in his name, yet Jesus never even knew them. Can another man or woman actually know if someone is saved?
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
hello, kjw47, you said

quote:

---

After all to be a christian, means to be christlike.

---

No, to be a Christian means to "be of Christ" and to be a Christian also means "Christ died on my behalf".

In this first Adamic body we can never be like Christ because Christ did not come up through the earth line from Adam but Jesus was a new injection of spirit into Mary. The energy which made up Jesus' body did there not come up thru the sinful first Adam line.

But we who are from the sinful first Adam line can improve some ("live our lives more abundantly") but never to the level of Jesus who was made from clean, fresh Holy Spirit.

That kind of glorious body also awaits us, and then we shall be like Him, but not until then.

love, Eden
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 
John 13:16 NKJV
Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.

2 Corinthians 2:14-16 KJV
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Hi Friend, Surely Jesus is the prime example of what it means to be a true child of God. Repented sin, is the only sin that will be forgiven. Thats stopping doing the sin, not just asking forgivness and doing it over and over again. There are people on the earth who live to do Gods will in every decision possible. Yes these still slip and sin ( probably minor things ) Sin = worship to satan. He asked Jesus to do an act of worship to him ( in the desert ) satan was asking him to sin. That was his attempt at trying to stop the worth of Jesus sacrafice.
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 
Hi kjw47

quote:

---

Originally posted by kjw47:
Which of us truly know that we are saved? Gods word teaches-- Those who endure until the end will be saved (this is the bottom line of being saved) The christians mentioned at Matt 7, 21-23 were told they were saved, and they surely believed in Jesus and loved him enough to do powerful works in his name, yet Jesus never even knew them. Can another man or woman actually know if someone is saved?

---

As we bear good fruit and the indwelling Holy Spirit gives us His inner assurance, we have manifold proof of this new identity (Rom 8:16; Matt 7:17).

quote:

---

Hi Friend, Surely Jesus is the prime example of what it means to be a true child of God.

---

Not just the example, but the WAY!!!

quote:

---

Repented sin, is the only sin that will be forgiven.

---

Please show me where God says that in Scripture please?

quote:

---

Thats stopping doing the sin, not just asking forgivness and doing it over and over again.

---

Are you referring to this Scriptural Truth?

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

For Paul is indeed speaking of regenerate believers in Christ here..
Was it not with this greeting he sent the sermon?

quote:

---

1 Cor 1
1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's: 3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

---

quote:

---

There are people on the earth who live to do Gods will in every decision possible.

---

Only One Person that I know of..

JESUS!

Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

quote:

---

Yes these still slip and sin (probably minor things) Sin = worship to satan.

---

Sin is lawlessness;

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005715

quote:

---

He asked Jesus to do an act of worship to him (in the desert) satan was asking him to sin. That was his attempt at trying to stop the worth of Jesus sacrafice.

---

Jesus overcame temptation by sumbitting to His Father for HIS Life. We overcome by submitting to Jesus for HIS Life.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
Hi, kjw47, you wrote

quote:

---

Hi, There are basically 2 groups on the earth in Gods viewpoint = the children of God and the children of the devil. Will both groups recieve grace and salvation?

---

In my opinion, the Bible teaches that only the children of God (meaning, those people who have accepted what Jesus did on the cross for them), will be saved.

The rest will still be in their sins and "the soul that sins shall die". Since Jesus died IN MY PLACE, I do not have to die anymore (but someone DID die for me, Jesus did), and those who have not accepted Jesus as their death substitute msut die their own death, which the Bible calls "the second death":

Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches; He who overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

These will not take part in the free gift of eternal life; only the believers in Jesus pass on to the WORLD_TO_COME.

love, Eden
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Hi Friends, In Matt 7: 21-23 These are christians Jesus is speaking to ( judgement day ) These were told they were saved, they believed in Jesus, They loved Jesus enough to do powerful works in his name, Yet Jesus never knew them he said. Because they were practicers of sin ( workers of iniquity, lawlessness ) Its obvious that there sin is not forgiven. All those good passages mentioned by others here only apply to the (true ) children of God. Not to just anyone who believes or even loves Jesus as we find in Matt 7: 21-23. Jesus told all he cured-- Go sin no more -- Because he meant just that. And that is a big part of what it takes.
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Hi Friend, At acts 3:19 Says repent to get your sin blotted out.
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
kjw47, It is so easy to take that one scripture and to apply it to a contemporary group of people, and make the statement that "They are not saved," and turn it into an us, or them situation. I however do not believe that that scripture applies to our contemporaries, but rather to some who will come during the Tribulation, who, as Pharoh duplicated the miracles of Moses in his day, will also duplicate the miracles of God (or so it will seem) at some point in time yet to come.

Unlike some who have a vehement distaste for those 'claiming' to be ministers of miracles, I have only to say that, if the miracles are not of God, then they work iniquity. However strange to the flesh, it is unlikely that very many of the contemporary 'so called' miracle workers are doing it on their own. As Jesus said then, and is still saying now that, "If you believe not me, believe the miracles." On should be careful about not believing. For God is a God of the miraculous, and since the beginning the evidence of Him has been marked by such. However, for some, the thousand of years of such manifestations of His power (for the very sake of those who have trouble believing) seems to have ended at 90 A.D. ???


Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Joh 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.


And let us not throw out this very important admonishment:

Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
Well, I guess I'll throw a wrench in the mix. I do believe that grace is for those that are not following God. Jesus died that ALL might be saved. I believe grace is extended to them, but as Jesus is holding it out to those that turn their back on God, they aren't able to see it yet. They need to turn their back around and it will be right there before them to grab hold of. Salvation is also for all of God's people. Again, it's a choice. People that turn their backs on God are turning their back on the same salvation that is being offered to them. Many may not even be aware that's it there yet.

I know I'm saved because the bible tells me so. By faith, I believe it.

Here's another wrench. A friend of mine was studying the bible and he gave me something to seriously think about. When the devil is bound, He believes that God is going to reign again and ALL people will be given a final chance at salvation. God is going to draw people to Himself and teach everyone. Those that still don't believe will lose out on salvation. This makes a lot of sense to me because many have died before they had a chance to hear God's word. I don't believe God would discard them. I wonder, will God really give everyone a final chance? It makes sense to me, although I won't claim to know definitely since all we can do is wait and see what God will do during that time that He reigns again.
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I don't believe if we reject God in this lifetime we will have another chance.

Betty
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
I don't have much time right now so I'll respond more later, but I believe the bible says that the dead body rests until the judgment.
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Carmela:
I don't have much time right now so I'll respond more later, but I believe the bible says that the dead body rests until the judgment.

---

Your still stuck in time after you die?
 

---

Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
I remember reading the scripture once that is the basis of why people feel this way. I'm surprised more people haven't responded. I thought it would start a bigger debate. I don't believe this, but I did want to see what others have to say. I know there are some that preach this, I don't know which group of people believe this though.

However, I do consider my earlier post as making some sense because I can't help but believe that God is going to give "all" people a chance. Many haven't heard the word and died but the bible says "ALL" will hear. Could God really be only talking about those still alive, or will have give a chance to those that didn't hear His word and believe?
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 
Romans 10:18
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

---

Posted by kjw47 (Member # 7230) on :
 
Hi Friends, At rev 3: 14-16 in his letter to the laodecians Jesus was basically saying if one is sitting on the fence he will vomit them out. Yes you are so right It isnt God who ever turns his back on us, it is us who turn our backs on him, either by choice or ignorance. Satan has transformed to an angel of light in many things in this world that many practice from ignorance., because they never take the time to learn every utterance of God and apply it to every decision. It is the key to walking the narrow path. The path which few will find. Listen to Jesus.
 

---

Posted by Zeena (Member # 7223) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kjw47:
Hi Friends, At rev 3: 14-16 in his letter to the laodecians Jesus was basically saying if one is sitting on the fence he will vomit them out. Yes you are so right It isnt God who ever turns his back on us, it is us who turn our backs on him, either by choice or ignorance. Satan has transformed to an angel of light in many things in this world that many practice from ignorance., because they never take the time to learn every utterance of God and apply it to every decision. It is the key to walking the narrow path. The path which few will find. Listen to Jesus.

---

Yet, as a regenerate person in Christ, indwelt [even if not infilled] by His Holy Spirit, we have recieved from our Father a new heart to follow Him.

Which is why Paul could honestly say;

Romans 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Even so, our Father always causes us to triumph in Christ. For in these things [failures] our wills are broken and crushed to the point of utter dispair, in which we reach out.. GLADY taking hold of Jesus, our head.

I would not go so far as to say this is the normal Christian life, however.. Far be it!
 

---

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0