Christian Message Boards: Independent Fundamental Baptist Church Not for Me

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such things as evangelism. They, however, will only fellowship or cooperate in joint meetings with churches of like belief. They will not participate, on a church basis, in any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. They will not participate in joint meetings, or evangelistic endeavors, with Protestants, Catholics, or other doctrinally unsound church groups who do not hold to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament (Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers) Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches. They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. " The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin.

A church that becomes very isolated in its beliefs and won't fellowship with other church groups really concerns me. They also seem very legalistic and still cling to the law of Moses with a lot of "Thou Shalt Nots" instead of grasping onto the New Covenant, the more loving law of Jesus.

It is very easy to become so pre-occupied with this tunnel vision of tearing down the views of other faith groups, that our own spiritual walk loses its focus in dwelling on Jesus and extolling his grace and mercy, and lifting up his precious name.

We can miss out on Jesus' message to love our neighbour as ourself, which includes those who don't see every chapter and verse exactly the way we do. [Cross]

Posted by Eduardo Grequi (Member # 3984) on :

This isn't always true. I accepted Christ in a Fundamentalist Church and I remember the entire area churches to included other protestant churches for Evangelizing. I do not know what Part of the Country you are from, but I grew up in Illinois, I was born in Michigan.

DO NOT GROUP ALL FUNDMENTALIST IN THE SAME GROUP, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT VISIT EACH AND EVERYONE ACCROSS THE ENTIRE GLOBE.

ALWAYS IN CHRIST,

EDWARD PS 118:17

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

Other posters have admitted to being a part of this church, and they seem to share the view that was just described.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

Me, I have no clue. In Texas I was apart of Southern Baptist and in Washington I am apart of Swedish Baptist (which is Washington version of Southern Baptist but started by Swedish missonaries.
betty

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

I have always had great respect for the mainstream Baptist Churches. I don't see any reason to break away from their beliefs?? One of the most respected preachers of our time is Dr. Charles Stanley, who is First Baptist.

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

It makes you wonder what kind of spirit has entered a body that finds the need to break away from the traditions of a church that has worked for centuries. I also see this in the Oneness Pentecostals who have broken away the basic divine principal of a triune God. [Cross]

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

Isolation is one of the devil's most deceitful weapons. If he can get your eyes focused within your own order and make you closed-minded about other faiths, who might have a great richness to offer, he has won a major victory. Even Jesus was accused of being a heretic.

Matthew 12:24
But when the Pharisees heard about the miracle, they said, "No wonder he can cast out demons. He gets his power from Satan, the prince of demons."

-Yes, we are supposed to separate ourselves from 'worldiness,' not the 'world.' If we go to a bar just to join in and have fun, we are mingling with the devil and his ways, but if we go in with some tracts and the message of Truth, our motives are focused on winning souls.

Matthew 9:10-13 That night Matthew invited Jesus and his disciples to be his dinner guests, along with his fellow tax collectors and many other notorious sinners. The Pharisees were indignant. "Why does your teacher eat with such scum?" they asked his disciples.

When he heard this, Jesus replied, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do." Then he added, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: `I want you to be merciful; I don't want your sacrifices.' For I have come to call sinners, not those who think they are already good enough."

-Jesus even ate with sinners.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

-The words "I want you to be merciful" really jump out at me.

Posted by Aaron (Member # 3761) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such things as evangelism. They, however, will only fellowship or cooperate in joint meetings with churches of like belief. They will not participate, on a church basis, in any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. They will not participate in joint meetings, or evangelistic endeavors, with Protestants, Catholics, or other doctrinally unsound church groups who do not hold to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament (Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers) Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches. They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. " The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin.

This is not going to be nice:

Such a credo is useful for those who are bereft of any form of spiritual discernment. It is no wonder that from such groups come the "cessation doctrines".

Aaron

P.S. I have met some under such credos. When their traditions are put to the test they break and their hearts are made pliable in the hands of our Loving Father.

Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :

HisGrace - Can you tell me where this statement came from?

"Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such things as evangelism. They, however, will only fellowship or cooperate in joint meetings with churches of like belief. They will not participate, on a church basis, in any outside function with churches which do not also strictly base their faith and practice on the New Testament. They will not participate in joint meetings, or evangelistic endeavors, with Protestants, Catholics, or other doctrinally unsound church groups who do not hold to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament (Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers) Fundamental Independent Baptists church will remain separate from these churches as well as other Baptists groups who participate with the unscriptural churches. They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. " The Independent Baptist believes that to join with churches who teach and practice false doctrine is condone and even show approval of Biblical error and that all doctrinal error is sin."

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

web page

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
They practice the Biblical teachings of separation as stated in Ephesians 5:11, which says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

We are in this world, but we are not of this world, so this passage would mean that even though we rub shoulders with unbelievers we do not get caught up with their sinful ways.

We have to marvel at how Jesus had such deep compassion for the publicans and the sinners, so much so that he even dined with them. The story of Zacchaeus is another prime example. As result Zacchaeus was won to salvation. Even before Zaccheus had made a commitment, Jesus was prepared to eat with a sinner, as we also see in other scriptures.

Luke 19: 1-10
Jesus entered Jericho and made his way through the town. 2There was a man there named Zacchaeus. He was one of the most influential Jews in the Roman tax-collecting business, and he had become very rich. He tried to get a look at Jesus, but he was too short to see over the crowds. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore tree beside the road, so he could watch from there.

When Jesus came by, he looked up at Zacchaeus and called him by name. "Zacchaeus!" he said. "Quick, come down! For I must be a guest in your home today."

Zacchaeus quickly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great excitement and joy. But the crowds were displeased. "He has gone to be the guest of a notorious sinner," they grumbled.

Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood there and said to the Lord, "I will give half my wealth to the poor, Lord, and if I have overcharged people on their taxes, I will give them back four times as much!"

Jesus responded, "Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham. And I, the Son of Man, have come to seek and save those like him who are lost

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

The story of Zacchaeus is not what Ephesians speaks of and is not what the Fundamental Baptists practice.

Please know that I am not a Fundamental Baptist and I disagree with them in that most of them believe that one can lose salvation and this is contrary to what the baptists have held as creed. I say that because I dont want you to think that I am defending them. I dont claim any denominational affilation.

However I do understand and agree with picture of the church of the Apostles that is not practiced today and that is a picture where the church was a community of like minded believers and people who were not believers and not like minded were put out of fellowship with the church.

We are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers and this means in business dealings as well as marriage. The church is the place according to the epistles where disputes of an earthly living nature ... he owes me and didnt pay me ... etc. ... are to be settled and you cant do that if you do not agree to the same authority; this is how chirstians end up in court against each other and should not be.

There is no way that a church of Bible believing Christians can rightly join with Catholics, or Mormons, or Jehovah Witnesses in an evangelical effort. Our doctrinal differences are too wide.

If it is the local church that sends out missionaries, how can I join in this with another body with whom I do not share doctrinal basics?

If you teach that Jesus did not die physically for our sins, how can I who believes he did have fellowship with you in the sense of being joined to you in ONE body and ONE accord?

This is not to say that we are not warm and caring to the sinner or that we do not associate in the world with the sinner; but the whole idea of church in the apostolic church was one of a group of believers that supported each other, minstered to and provided for the needs of their local body and through their intimate relationship as church/bride and body of Christ formed a safe haven against the world.

You can see this when you see Paul speak of the consequences of putting one out of that fellowhip... it was to turn him over to the enemy.

We can have casual relationship with the heathen where we interact on a daily living basis and where we evangelize but we cannot have intimate binding relationships with the heathen in the church.

I may have working and casual social relationships in the community with unbelievers, but I am not going to have an intimate personal confidant kind of friendship with an unbeliever. I may have guests in my home that are unbelievers, we often do especially during holidays when people are alone and without families, but that is not a personal intimate relationship. Jesus had an intimate relationship with 11. It was with them that he broke bread and drank wine of the convenant. Paul had close personal relationships, people on whom he depended... Timothy, Epaphroditus,Phebe... they were believers of the same accord with Paul.

Posted by RioLion (Member # 1875) on :

One core belief and identifiable mark of fundamentalist Baptist churches is the view that only the King James Version as the Word of God. They scorn Christians that use other versions labeling them to be perversions. [Confused]

And they also have a problem with modern music and advocate a strict dress code (you do not let hour wife or daughter wear slacks when attending one of their churches). And you had better cut that long hair if you have it. [Eek!]

I generally avoid any fellowship with them realizing that there is little to gain from them. [angel3]

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

From the same website:

http://bible-truth.org/fundbapt.htm

THE FIVE BAPTIST DISTINCTIVES

1. WE ACCEPT ONLY THE NEW TESTAMENT AS OUR AUTHORITY IN ALL MATTERS OF FAITH AND PRACTICE.

This means that we do not accept any authority except the New Testament Scriptures. Christ is head of the Church, and it is His bride. We believe the Word of God, the Bible is complete and it solely, ". . . is given of by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God many be perfect, thoroughly furnished (equipped) unto all good works." (II Timothy 3:16-17)

We reject that God is giving supposed "new" Revelation, believing that God forbids any adding to or taking away of the canon of Scriptures. (Rev. 22:18-19) We do not accept any authority over the New Testament Church, but Christ Himself, including any hierarchy to include popes, modern day prophets, or councils of churches.

2. WE BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS TO BE MADE UP OF SAVED BAPTIZED BELIEVERS.

Baptist reject the baptism of infants flatly! The church is made up of Baptized believers only. (Acts 2:41-42) An infant is not capable of believing, and is protected by the Grace of God until the age of accountability. Further, only those who have made a public profession of faith in Jesus Christ and trusted in Him as their Savior is a member of the body of Christ, and thus can be a member of the body of Christ on earth, the local New Testament church.

3. WE BELIEVE IN STRICT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Jesus said to ""render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's." Further the Scripture says "what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion that light with darkness?" No power on earth is higher than God's Word, and the church should not be in any way yoked with the state, or controlled by it. We support the rightly appointed authority of government over us and pray for them that we live our lives in peace.

4. WE BELIEVE IN THE PRIESTHOOD OF THE BELIEVER.

The Scripture teaches that every believer can without the aid of priests or churchmen go, "boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace in the time of need". (Hebrews 4:16) The Scripture states further in Hebrews 10:19, "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus." The believer does not needed a priest or a church to intercede on their behalf to God. The believer can boldly, by the fact of being washed in the blood of Ch rist, instantly be in contact with God by simple prayer, and further can bring his petitions or requests for forgiveness of sins directly to God himself. (1 John 1:19) No church has the authority to forgive sins or grant intercession to God.

5. WE BELIEVE IN THE AUTONOMY OF THE LOCAL CHURCH.

Simply stated the Scriptures gives no higher authority than the local congregation of born again, baptized believers. We believe that the local church is to be governed by the Word of God, and the local church does not need, or does the Scripture teach that the local body rests under the authority of any earthy group. It is a group unto itself, under the authority of God, and solely responsible unto Him for its conduct, direction and affairs. Jesus in Revelation 2:6,15, stated that He "hated" the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. This group of heretics in the early church along with other doctrinal errors promoted a clerical hierarchy in the church.

A church which cannot answer yes to all of these questions can not historically call itself a Baptist church. These are the distinctives which separate Baptists from all Protestants, any organized church or "Christian" cult.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What fellowship has light with darkness. Why should a Bible Believing Baptist Church pursue evangelistic endeavors with those who teach contrary to God's Word?

It is the Freewill Baptist Churches who teach that one can lose their salvation. The majority of IFBs teach the Eternal Security of all Believers.

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http://bible-truth.org/fundbapt.htm

We must agree with John Smyth, that the true New Testament church is founded on its belief and practice of the Scriptures, and not on any outward succession of a visible or invisible organization. In this sense, any church which founds itself strictly on the New Testament teachings, is a true and Biblical church, even if it existed in time, only yesterday. It is not the name or the organization that makes a Biblical church, but its practice of the faith as revealed in the New Testament.

It is the Word of God, the Bible, that constitutes what is a real and true church! The Bible and only the Bible reveals to men how to have their sins forgiven and have eternal life and heaven. That is what truly saved believers have always believed, because that is what the New Testament which is God's very Word to man says.

The Baptist bases his authority solely on the Bible itself. They do not accept that authority was given to any particular man, pope, prophet, group or church on earth to be the means of the salvation of men. God has not entrusted that authority to impart salvation to any man or church. God alone has that authority and He in the person of the Holy Spirit brings conviction and salvation to those who in simple faith believe.

A church that is a truly biblical one, patterns its self after the example in the New Testament. It is one made up of baptized believers organized in a local congregation for fellowship, teaching and evangelism. All systems of hierarchy established by man over the authority of the local church has lead to doctrinal errors and corruption without exception and God has not party with them.

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

I see a church with blinders on. [Eek!]

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

From an IFB with links to Wisconsson IFB:

WE BELIEVE

In the verbal and plenary inspiration of the Bible as given in the original manuscripts, which constitute the inerrant Word of God in all matters in which it speaks. 2Tim 3:16-17; 2Pet 1:19-21.

In the Trinity of the Godhead: one God eternally existing in three equal Persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Exod 20:2-3; 1Cor 8:6.

In the deity, virgin birth, sinless life, substitutionary death, bodily resurrection, and imminent, premillennial coming of Christ. Isa 7:14; 1Cor 15:4; 1Thess 4:13-18; Heb 2:17-18, 5:9-10.

In the personality of the Holy Spirit. It is He who calls and regenerates believers. He baptizes them into Christ. He indwells, seals and fills the believer for service. John 3:5-6, 14:16-17,26; Eph 1:13-14.

In the direct creation of the universe and man by God, as set forth in the Genesis account, and apart from any process of evolution. Gen.1,2; Col 1:16-17.

In the fall, total depravity and guilt of the race of Adam, which for man’s salvation necessitates the sovereign, divinely initiated deliverance of the sinner by the Grace of God in Christ. Gen 3:1-6; Rom.

In the eternal salvation of all individuals who put their trust in Christ and His shed blood. 2Cor 5:21; Eph 2:8; 1Pet 2:24.

In the unity of all true believers in the Church which is the Body of Christ. 1Cor 12:12-13; Eph 1:22-23.

In the local church as a company of baptized (immersed) believers, associated by a covenant of faith and fellowship of the Gospel. The true mission of the church is to be found in the Great Commission: first, to make disciples; second, to baptized them; third, to instruct new disciples as He has commanded. It is to observe the ordinances of Christ (immersion and the Lord’s Table). We hold that the local church has the absolute right of self-government, free from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations and that its one and only Head is Christ through the Holy Spirit. The ordinance of baptism is for believers only by immersion and is a pre-requisite for membership in the local church. Officers in the New Testament local church are pastors and deacons. Acts 2:41-42, 20:17-28; 1Tim 3:1-13.

In the obedience to the Biblical command to separate entirely from worldliness and ecclesiastical apostasy unto God. .

In the personal existence of angels, demons and Satan. Mat 4:1-11; Rev 20:10.

In the bodily resurrection, immortality and rapture of all believers at Christ’s imminent coming. .

In the sovereign selection of Israel as God’s eternal covenant people and that she will be regathered in the Holy Land from her dispersion among the nations and that she will, as a nation, be saved in a day at the Second Advent of Christ. Gen 13:14-17; Ezek 37.

In the eternal life and blessedness of all believers and the eternal existence and punishment of all unbelievers. Mal 3:18; Mat 25:34-41; Rev 20:14-15.

In prayer as both a command and a provision of God. It is the blessed channel by which blessings of mercy and grace are appropriated. It is essential to daily living and is the secret power, comfort and effective service. Accent in the early church was the Word and prayer. Pss 55:16-17; Luke 18:1.

http://my.execpc.com/~combapt/docst.html

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

HisGrace:
I see a church with blinders on. [Eek!]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is a body of Believers that have refused to compromise with Roman Apostacy for over 1900 years.

This is a body of Believers who have died at the hands of both the RCC and the Protestants for centuries.

They have stood for the Word and contended valiantly for the faith against horrid persecution.

The Church of Acts also had "blinders on" as they withdrew from Judaism, and refused to cooperate with the Roman Empire, Greek gods, Druids, gnosticism.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

Aren't blinders those things that you put on a race horse so that they keep their eyes focused straight ahead toward the goal and are not side tracked by other horses or things that could become obstacles along the side lines causing them to stray off course?

Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :

quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Aren't blinders those things that you put on a race horse so that they keep their eyes focused straight ahead toward the goal and are not side tracked by other horses or things that could become obstacles along the side lines causing them to stray off course?

Yes, and on a human level I would liken it to a closed mind.

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

A Telling signature:

2 Corinthians 4:3
If the Good News we preach is veiled from anyone, it is a sign that they are perishing.

2 Cor. 4:
1: Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2: But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3: But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5: For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6: For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7: But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
8: We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9: Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Are they more blind who wear blinders on their eyes, focused on the prize, not distracted by those lending credence to apostasy, or those whose blinders are upon their hearts, subverted from the faith by television evangelists, self-serving apostles of opulance?

Phil 3:
14: I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15: Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16: Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17: Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18: (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20: For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Posted by Grams (Member # 5169) on :

Our church is just Grace Bible Church..
And King James Bible.... you can use any bible you want, but then its not easy to follow.
Our son is in a Baptist church, and he could not
belong till he was baptized !
On that note we do not believe you are supposed to be baptized... We have every thing upon Jesus death on the Cross...
There are so many different understandings of the
Bible !

Posted by RedeemTheTime (Member # 5161) on :

Caretaker I heartily agree with your posts. Thank-you! Helpforhomeschoolers, I agree with a lot of what you said as well & I thank you. Loving the sinner, but hating the sin is certainly right biblical practice. I have many friends that are not independent baptists but I believe they know the Lord. We do not, however, fellowship church to church. I don't want to spend so much time on these things however. I don't want hard feelings and a right personal walk with the Lord, prayer and evangelism,(speaking the truth in love through being filled with the Holy Spirit), should be the center focus of a child of God.

Posted by RedeemTheTime (Member # 5161) on :

Forgive me...things were locked up and I ended up with three identical posts..:-( So sorry!

Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :

God bless you RedeemTheTime!!!

Some things are worth repeating.... [Wink]

The imperative is our Lord Jesus Christ, the redemption of the lost and their justification by faith alone in Christ alone, and the sanctification of His Body, through the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit.

God bless all of our Brothers and Sisters in Christ who have a heart for the lost, and a perseverence in the Faith regardless of trial or adversity.