quote:

---

KING: There's a lot of books about improving yourself.

OSTEEN: Yeah. I don't know. I think coming from the Christian base, and I think the fact that I don't know, it's a book of encouragement and inspiration. And to me it seems like there's so much pulling us down in our society today. There's so much negative. Most of my book is about how you can live a good life today in spite of all that. So I think that had a big part of it.

KING: But it doesn't quote a lot of biblical passages until the back of the book, right?

OSTEEN: It doesn't do a whole lot of it. My message, I wanted to reach the mainstream. We've reached the church audience. So I just try to, what I do is just try to teach practical principles. I may not bring the scripture in until the end of my sermon and i might feel bad about that. Here's the thought. I talked yesterday about living to give. That's what a life should be about. I brought in at the end about some of the scriptures that talk about that. But same principal in the book.

---

quote:

---

KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ...

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

---

quote:

---

KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.

---

quote:

---

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth.

OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that...

KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?

OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just...

KING: But you believe your way.

OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart.

KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he?

OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let god be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know.

KING: So you make no judgment on anyone?

OSTEEN: No. But I...

KING: What about atheists?

OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let god be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only god knows that.

---

quote:

---

"We must cling to the cross; we must preach the old-school way; we must stand unapologetically; we must be the people of God -- and if every other denomination on the planet gives up, may it never be said of Southern Baptists that we backed away from the infallible, inerrant Word of God," Caner said, pushing forward as the "Amens" and applause continued.

"And I will tell you one more thing: It's a fun ride -- because I'm going to beg you: quit whining, quit complaining, quit running; take a stand, take the hit, take the heat; stand up -- He died for you!"

---

quote:

---

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

---

Sounds to me like he should have stuck with the Baptists, eh?


A question for those who will be quick to defend Osteen and condemn my post:

If a loved one in your family was dying and unsaved, which preacher would you want by their bedside? Osteen or Caner?


Note to skeptics - I doubt you'll find this interview on Osteen's website, and yet, it did indeed happen.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Thanks for posting this Hardcore...I at one time did listen to this preacher.
He has more of a "motivational" type message rather than the "repentance" message.
I am sure that this is ok for an established christian, but not so much for the unsaved.
bygrace
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Even Preachers want to ride the fence these days.

 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
Hardcore, I watched that interview. Made me sick. Compromise, Compromise, Compromise. Be sure not to offend anyone with the Truth of the Gospel and that Jesus is the only way to heaven and eternal life with Him and that there is a hell and many people will be going there.

Wishy, Washy, Spineless Preachers who only want to preach what the people want to hear. You know, the old addage of Your okay, I'm okay and everyone in the world is okay! Balonga!

Joel Olsteen could reach MANY people with the gospel and yet he refuses to preach it like the word says. And why I wonder. So people will love him? So he wont offend anyone? So the money will keep rolling in? Who knows. Could be any or all those reasons.I think his only motto is "Find the Champion in You". Just some more of that New Age retorict.

Let me tell you something, just because someone "Believes" in God doesnt make them born-again. The Jews are proof of that. One must believe and accept Jesus as He is the only Truth. Joel Olsteen wont tell you that, by his own admission he wont tell you that. He'll tell you thats what he believes, but he wont tell you that YOU MUST believe it too or your headed for an eternal hell. That is what Joel wont tell you.

He preaches a watered down gospel at best. Mixes it with a little psyco-babble and wall lah, He is a preacher of the truth! Yea right!

But in Joels defense, He does stand in good company for there are many preachers doing the same thing. His father was one who preached it like it should be preached. What happened to Joel I wonder? Its another sign of the times I would guess. Shalom
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Osteen now?? I give up
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I am reading a book by Joel Osteen that my sister asked me to read. One thing that has me confused, is he discusses that if we want something we should picture it in our mind and God will give it to us. Is this in line with the Bible? Believe me, I would love to picture a farm in the country being mine. But, I wonder if that is what the Bible says we should do. He says his wife did that and they got the big house she wanted. I am open to other's opoinions on this.
betty
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Texas,
That is the very type of thinking that I started to see with his messages.
We need more discernment, not more feel-good, evrything's cool...propaganda.
Repentance should be preached...Everyone wants to be coddled, I should know, I was one!
You know, Jesus was direct...He preached repentance. (not just Love)! I think the movement of talk only about the "love" of God is going to result in more people in Hell.
I read one commentary, that urged the pastors to not use the word "sinner" anymore!
 

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Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
I wonder how many of these $$$$$ he got by that inter-view! Wow the gospel with no hell but feel good and be all the flesh you can be!
 

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Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
One thing I give to him is that the man can speak very good in front of the croud of hundreds! he sure
does have a sweet talk!

The massage should be sweet but bitter in our stomach! Why! because it bring outs the sin in us that there is a God and a real hell!
 

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Posted by Miguel (Member # 47) on :
 
Retribution

Hell is a place of divine retribution, not a place of rehabilitation. When God chastises a Christian, He does it for the Christian’s sanctification (moral improvement) and benefit (Heb. 11:6-7). But punishment in hell is pure retribution against breakers of God’s law. Christians are “in Christ” and adopted into God’s own family (Gal. 4:5, Eph. 1:5). The retribution that the Christian deserves for his sins was placed upon Jesus Christ on the cross (cf. Rom. 5:8-10). Jesus Christ received the full penalty, retribution and wrath against sin in His own body for those who believe in Him. Christians stay out of hell and go to heaven solely because of what Jesus Christ has done for them. “A man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.... Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us” (Gal. 2:16, 3:13). If you do not believe in Jesus Christ, then the cup of God’s wrath is poured out on you eternally in hell, rather than upon Jesus Christ on the cross.

If you die without believing in Christ, then your fate will be eternally sealed, because belief in Christ and the gospel must occur on earth before you die (Lk. 16:19-31; Jude 7, 13; 2 Pet. 2:4, 9). When you die apart from Christ, your guilt remains forever. “Suffering that is penal can never come to an end, because guilt is the reason for its infliction, and guilt once incurred never ceases to be. The lapse of time does not convert guilt into innocence.... The reason for retribution today is a reason forever.... But when, as the Supreme Judge, He [Jesus Christ] punishes rebellious and guilty subjects of His government, He causes an endless suffering. In this case, ‘their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched’ (Mk. 9:48).... Damnation means absolute and everlasting damnation. All suffering in the next life, therefore, of which the sufficient and justifying reason is guilt, must continue as long as the reason continues; and the reason is everlasting. It if be righteous today, in God’s retributive justice, to smite the transgressor because he violated the law yesterday, it is righteous to do the same thing tomorrow, and the next day, and so on ad infinitum; because the state of the case ad infinitum remains unaltered. The guilt incurred yesterday is a standing and endless fact. What, therefore guilt legitimatizes this instant, it legitimatizes every instant, and forever.”

William G. T. Shedd, The Doctrine of Endless Punishment (New York, 1885)
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
TexasGrandma: Creative visualization does work, but it not Biblical, it is occult-ish people have been practicing creative visualization and mind mapping for centuries, but today we see this being preached in Christian cirlces and you cand find this in books on Christian bookshelves and it is part of the apostasy!!!

I am not telling you it does not work; it does work, but so do a lot of other things having to do with majick and the occult. Divination is much related to creative visualization and the Bible is clear against that. No where in the Bible does it tell us that vizualization is the way to ask God for anything.

Think about this: why did God scatter the people at Bable?

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

The mind of man is a powerful thing, but it is not God's desire that we operate with the mind of man, but with the mind of Christ.

This is why we are told not to be conformed to the world, but transformed that we may prove (demonstrate) the PERFECT will of God.

This is gonna sound really Southern Baptist... but BURN THE BOOK!!!!

Learn not the ways of the heathen. If I could show you some of the books that I have owned that taught creative visualization you would run the other way. I burned the books!

Instead, pray that God would bring to you exactly the place that he wants you to be and that he let you accept nothing less. Then when that place comes no matter how different or like your vision, you can rest in faith knowing that there is no better place for you to be no matter what comes.


Who is this olsteen charachter anyway? This interview is disgusting.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
http://www.lakewood.cc/site/PageServer

Joel Osteen's dad started LakeWood Church. We visited there a couple of time, but hubby said the Church was too big for him.

My sister thinks his books are great. But, I had my doubts and I am glad to see that I am not alone on this. I don't see anything wrong with telling God our desires but visualizing them in our head to see the results, sounds New Age to me.
betty
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
First Billy Graham and now Joel Osteen. WWJD or say right now.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Gramajo,
He would NOT condone these teachings!
Jesus preached repentance! Not just "feel Good".
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I am reading a book by Joel Osteen that my sister asked me to read. One thing that has me confused, is he discusses that if we want something we should picture it in our mind and God will give it to us. Is this in line with the Bible? Believe me, I would love to picture a farm in the country being mine. But, I wonder if that is what the Bible says we should do. He says his wife did that and they got the big house she wanted. I am open to other's opoinions on this.
betty

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bygrace:
Gramajo,
He would NOT condone these teachings!
Jesus preached repentance! Not just "feel Good".

---

AMEN bygrace!!!

He would not condone this teaching in any way shape or form. It completely contradicts His Word.

I think Jesus would say:

Thank you for being obedient.

Thank you for being Berean.

Thank you for standing for Truth.

Thank you for warning others.

Thank you for loving Me and My Word more than men.

Thank you for not being concerned about what others will say.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
I've heard Joel Osteen preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ many times.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Shame on you Gramajo for thinking that you are supposed to 'feel good' . You are supposed to be wallowing in a pit of despair and unhappiness. Isn't that what the Bible teaches??
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
His Grace,

I love your sense of humor! I really do enjoy listening to Joel Osteen and he most assuredly is very much a born again believer in Jesus Christ and that is what I've heard him preach many times over - the true gospel of Jesus Christ. For that matter so does Billy Graham.

God bless you!
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 

quote:

---

You are supposed to be wallowing in a pit of despair and unhappiness.

---

quote:

---

KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don't go there. I just ...

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don't think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don't think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I'm not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning.

---

quote:

---

Dr. Ergun Caner at the Southern Baptist Convention during his message telling them to stick to God's Word in defending their faith and not go the way of other denominations in compromising. "And I will tell you one more thing: it's a fun ride---because I'm going to beg you; quit whining, quit complaining, quit running; take a stand, take the hit, take the heat; stand up--He died for you."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

quote:

---

You are supposed to be wallowing in a pit of despair and unhappiness.

---

HisGrace: Is this what teaching repentance amounts to to you? The promtion of a life in the pit of despair and unhappiness?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bygrace:
Hisgrace,
You are the very one who is sensitive, yet you find it ok to be flippent.

---

Sensitive? - Yes, sensitive to the grieving of the Holy Spirit. I don't think God is too pleased with the constant barage of caustic remarks ripping apart his anointed ones.

Once again, I must leave the Board for awhile to cool off my heals.

I'll just leave you with this scripture regarding the killing of God's anointed one Saul, even though Saul was far from being perfect-

2 Samuel 1:14-16 "Were you not afraid to kill the LORD's anointed one?" David asked. Then David said to one of his men, "Kill him!" So the man thrust his sword into the Amalekite and killed him. "You die self-condemned," David said, "for you yourself confessed that you killed the LORD's anointed one."
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
It is a very sad day and I am sure the spirit does grieve when having a TV show makes one anointed, even if that one will not even say that on public TV that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven or even if that one calls Jesus a born again human being who's sacrifice was insufficient that he had to be tortured by demons in hell, or even if that one is on who says that she is living her reward now as she points to the material wealth that surrounds her and refuses to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's!

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

But the one who speaks to contend for the faith and preaches HIS word and repentance and condemns the works of the devil and is the light and salt that we are supposed to be....light shinning truth in the darkness and salt preserving the truth of his word are not considered the anointed.

It is a sad sad day when men will defend men of renown at the expense of the word of God and the men that defend Christ!

That is a very sad statement indeed, and it is those who make that statement that do indeed persecute Christ as they persecute his church.

2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
"Before I can preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, law, and judgment."
-John Wesley
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
His Grace,

I really enjoy bantering with you and also I'm in complete agreement with your postings. I've listened to and really enjoyed hearing Joel Osteen preach whereas some others have never heard him preach at all. I really enjoy your postings and I always read them so I look forward very much to reading your postings again. God bless you.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Gramajo writes:


Now this is all I'm going to post in this particular thread.

--------------------
Gramajo320
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Bygrace,

I posted to His Grace as anyone can see when they read it.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
I have heard Joel Olsteen preach a lot. I listen to him and others even though my husband becomes somewhat irrate with me for doing so.

But hey, we need to know what they are saying when it comes to the word of God don't we? Im just listening to what they (mostly tv preachers) are preaching and teaching.And a lot of it aint biblical. I have even read their books, and some of them are way off the mark as well.

I like what John Wesley said. You first must make people aware that they are sinners,Using the 10 commandments as the guide and then tell them there is Judgement coming, but there is a way of escape, because of the Love and mercy of God and thru His grace.

When I watched Joels interview on Larry King it did not suprise me one bit. I mean lets face it and be real, who really wants to look at themselves and be told thru Gods word that we are sinners? Most of the world would find this very offensive. Most of us would rather have a feel good message. Thats only human nature. Most people would rather be told to find the Champion in themselves than to find a Savior to save them from themselves.Most of us would rather find the good in people than to say "hey brother/sister you have a problem and its called sin. Let me tell you the solution to the problem, Jesus.

Joel has a wonderful opportunity to do just that. Sadly, out of his own mouth, he says he does not use the word "sinners". Need I say more?
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
I know gramajo....
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
You are right Yahsway,

I too, Have listened to Joel's Messages...Many.
I was a close follower of his for a while.
I too, through the Holy Spirit, had to measure his teachings with God's word. I think too many
are not reading the Bible on thier own, and only listening to the T.V. preachers.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Preachers have preached for years about how the Church as a whole will grow cold and reject the truth of God's Word in the last days. Sadly, Preachers have also joined this group. Preachers who do not want to Preach the WHOLE TRUTH of the GOSPEL. Of course, it makes everyone feel great when you don't preach about sin, nor preach that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Too many people find these truths offensive. But, I believe that these Preachers will have to answer to God for this. These men and women will have the blood of sinners on their hands. They are giving them a false security that their souls are in no danger, when the Bible teaches a different TRUTH.
betty
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
I have heard Joel Osteen preach the whole true gospel of Jesus Christ many times and so does Billy Graham and they have and do win many souls to Jesus Christ.

I can only agree to disagree with whoever does not like Joel Osteen and Billy Graham. That is up to each individual as to who they like or don't like. However just because I or anyone else does not agree with whoever doesn't like Joel Osteen or Billy Graham does not make us any less of a born again believer in Jesus Christ and a christian.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Personally, I like them both. But I am saddened to see them shy away from preaching the whole truth of God's Word. The world is in need of Jesus not someone who says: "it doesn't matter what we believe all roads lead to heaven".
Why is it important for a Christian to talk about these things? Because we need to be warn that no matter how much we love our fav Preacher, we must judge his preaching to the Word of God. Any of us can mis-speak. But, if we rightly judge the preaching by the Word of God we will not go wrong.
When I hear a Preacher who says test what a say by God's Word, I feel safer.

I also feel a Preacher is in trouble when he spends 20 minutes preaching a "feel good sermon" and 1 minute talking salvation. When a Preacher goes on T.V. and refuses to discuss what the Bible says about abortion, about Jesus being the only way to Heaven, the he or she has sold out.
betty
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
I listened to John Osteen until he died, I really liked his teaching and agreed with most (not all) his theology.

I listened to Joel for a while, and stll do from time to time, but don't enjoy it near as much.

Normally I would stay out of this.
But the thing I see happening is, some aren't looking at what the thread is about.

This is not really about who likes Joel, and who does not.
This is not about whether or not Joel preaches the true Gospel.

This is about what he had to say in a TV interview, and the answers he gave to questions there:
Did his answers line up with what he preaches?
Did his answers line up with the WORD?

I like Joel just fine, though I liked his dad much better.
I too have heard him preach true Gospel.
I have also heard a lot of "don't make waves", in his preaching.
The true Gospel will make waves so he will have to take a side; there won't be any fence-riders;
he will fall to one side or the other.

As for the Larry King interview;
I am very sad that Joel didn't have the backbone to speak the WORD.
Joel's answers to the tough questions did not line up with the WORD.
I hope these answers are not the core of his preaching.
I really don't think his dad would have been so two faced.
So it seems he fell from the fence to the wrong side.

I will still listen, from time to time, to see if things change with him;
I pray they change.

T7
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Thank you Thunder. As I said, I do not know this man, I have never heard him preach, but I just heard him deny Jesus is the ONLY way on national TV and that should break all our hearts. How can we rightly pray for this man, how can we love this man with the love of Christ if we condone these things? We then have become the pharisee that do not enter in and keep others from entering also.

How can we be the body and stand and pray for this man if we are praising and defending his apostasy. And how can we listen to a preacher say I dont know if Christ is the only way and not call it apostasy?

My God this a soul!!!!

It is heartbreaking to see people falling away from the faith that was once given to the Apostles. My God! My God! How can we encourage this; it should break our hearts!!!!

A few months ago, I go an email from someone I love very much who was heartbroken and needed prayer because someone he has labored in the Gospel with told him that he no longer believes the Gospel. We of course knew immediately to stand in the gap for this person; but if we wont face their apsotasy ourselves then we become part of the problem and if we are part of the problem, we cant be standing in the gap for anyone. Lot was spared because Abraham prayed!!!

Recently, I lost 2 very very dear friends to the apostasy. This is tragic. And the falling away is going to be great....like nothing we have known.

Father God open our eyes that we can be about your business.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Amen
I don't understand why christians cannot see it.
I mean, HE DENIED that JESUS was THE ONLY way!
HFHS,
I really don't think they read the interview.
Or don't want to admit that they may have been wrong, mislead, or whatever.
 

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Posted by BrazilianMommy (Member # 4787) on :
 
I read the interview and in my opinion, Junior just wanted to be like Daddy.

quote:

---

KING: Why are you a preacher?

OSTEEN: You know, I never was for 17 years. I worked with my dad there at the church. He tried to get me to minister. I didn't have it in me. I worked behind the scenes. I loved doing production and things. But when my father died, I just knew -- I don't know how to explain it, it sounds kind of odd, but I just knew down to here I was supposed to step up to the plate and pastor the church. And it was odd because I had never preached before. But I just knew I was supposed to do it.

KING: Did it come easily?

OSTEEN: It did. It came -- it came somewhat easily. I had to study. I was nervous. Still get nervous. But it did. I believe God gives you the grace to do what you need to do. And the great thing about it is the people were so loyal to my father. They wanted one of his sons to take over. And daddy had never really necessarily raised anybody up under him.

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quote:

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KING: So you didn't go to seminary?

OSTEEN: No, sir, I didn't.

KING: They can just make you a minister?

OSTEEN: You can, you can.

KING: That's kind of an easy way in.

OSTEEN: Yeah, but I think it happens more than you think. But I didn't go to seminary. I have a lot of great friends that did. But I didn't. But I did study 17 years under my dad. You know ...

---

 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Joel Osteen has many times over preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ and he has called for many souls to come to repent and accept Jesus Christ. Isn't winning souls to Jesus Christ important? Isn't that what Jesus Christ wants? Isn't that what our Heavenly Father wants also? I just do not understand all of the tearing down against Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, especially when some have admitted they've never heard them preach the true gospel.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
Gramajo you have got to be kidding us...or yourself.

HAVE YOU READ THE INTERVIEW???

If not, please stop repeating the same mindless banter.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
By the way, once again...I have heard him preach! Many many many times.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Bygrace,

Why did you post to me in such a rude and insulting way? Is that the christian way? I don't think so! I'm quite intelligent thank you and I don't speak in mindless banter.

You will please never ever again post being so rude and insulting to me. There is no call for your doing so whatsoever and it certainly isn't the christian way. You've been less than courteous to me in other postings and I've let it go. This time just stop it. If you don't like what I post you absolutely most assuredly do not have to read it at all.

When I posted I was not addressing the issue of the interview. I was only addressing their preaching of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and their winning souls to Jesus Christ! That's not mindless banter. Perhaps you should re think before you post. Please do not post to me again unless you can do so in a christian and very courteous way. Thank you!
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
It is impossible to fall away from something unless one is there in the first place. All who fall away will have at one time been those who appeared to be sound in doctrine. The key is that they will not ENDURE sound doctrine. Thus they will FALL AWAY - Leave sound doctrine. You have to have preached sound doctrine to have fallen away from preaching sound doctrine.

Billy Graham once thought the WCC would elect the antichrist and now he speaks highly of them. He once said catholocism was an enemy of Christianity, now he says they have belief no different than he. He once preached that the ONLY way to Heaven and life eternal was Christ and now he is not sure about that and thinks the same way this joel character does.

FALL AWAY - From where you once were.


It does not matter if he preached the gospel 1 million times correctly if he denies Christ is the ONLY way today and he did, and this thread was about just that and not the many many times you have heard him preach correctly. That is why I asked your opinion of this interview. And you declined to give it.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Homeschoolers


I have my reasons for posting only about how many many times I've heard Joel Osteen and Billy Graham preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ and how many people have come forward when the invitation is given to come to accept Jesus Christ. Don't you agree that winning souls to Jesus Christ should be top priority?

Our Heavenly Father knows my reasons and that is quite well understood by Him and the Holy Spirit has assured me of this. I know you don't understand and I know you probably never will but that's okay. Please just remember though that just because someone doesn't agree with either you or some of the others that fact doesn't make me or any one else less of a born again believer in Jesus Christ or less of a christian. That fact needs to be remembered at all times. Just look at bygraces rude insulting words to me - is that christian? I don't think so and I don't believe it to be representative of Jesus Christ or God or of being a christian. I'm not going to get into any controversey with you or anyone else and I don't believe in thinking that all others must believe the way I do. I know what my calling from God is and that's the way it is.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
It is sad but many of our preachers today are "falling away" as the scriptures said many people would.

Perhaps they are the ones that say Lord, Lord look what we did in your Name and He says depart from me you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you.


Many people probably have come to know Jesus thru these pastors preaching, but that does not negate the fact that these preachers are falling away into deception. Just read that interview again. Its compromise.

If Joel is denying the fact at anytime that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, which I believe he did in that interview, then he is at risk for what Jesus Himself said He would do if men deny Him. He would deny them in front of the Father.

Joel Olsteen needs our prayers that he would BOLDLY preach the gospel and the true Gospel of Sinners in need of a Savior, Jesus, and that He is the only way and that there is a real hell and many are headed there if they do not repent and walk in the truth of Jesus.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
We can try to excuse Joel Osteen for his behavior on Larry King, but what does this do to a lay person? How is the people in his Church suppose to stand up for God at work, when they see their leader refusing to do so himself?
The truth is it is just as hard to stand for the truth of God's Word for a lay person on the job as it is for a PReacher. In fact I believe it is more so. If Joel Osteen had said yes, the Bible does say abortion is wrong and yes Jesus is the only way to Heaven, Larry King would not have been shocked. He knows the Bible. Joel Osteen would still have his job, either way. He let down his Church but more important he let down Jesus our Lord and Savior. Yes, we are all inperfect. All of us make mistakes, but denying God's Word on T.V. is just too sad for words.
betty
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
GrandmaJo, I understood that you must have had a reason and I respected that and that is why, while I sincerely did want to hear your thoughts, I thanked you for your response, which I did consider kind.

Yes, souls are number one priority. I have to concerns in this regard and I share them with you not because I want you to think like I think

(by the way, it often feels like you and others here do also want us who disagree to think like you think, as you rarely debate our accuracy or inaccuracy according to scripture, but just condemn the fact that we speak out)

anyway I share this not that you would think like I think, but that you would know why I think the way I do.

I fear because the Bible says false teachers will gather souls that will believe that they are saved, but will not be because they are drawn to a Christ that is not Christ and thus cannot save.

I fear also because as I have said earlier, I believe that it is our duty to pray for these who are falling away; Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith not fail. I do not see that I can rightly pray for a brother that is falling away unless I am willing to accept that he is falling away.

I think that it is not loving to love someone with the world's love right into hell.

God's love requires us to value the soul of the other above all things. Paul said it was to their shame that the Corintian church did not mourn for this one that Paul was going to have to put out of the fellowship because of his sin. I see that we should be mourning for these who have labored for the Lord and today we see being deceived of the devil and are deceiving others.

When I was a child, I loved Billy Graham, he used to preach at our state fair every year; I would listen to him preach. I had an athiest father and no discipling and so I longed to hear about Jesus and I did hear from Billy Graham. Today, in my office there are Billy Graham tapes, wonderful old movies and some of his crusades; I have the book Just As I Am, and several others many of them very old about his life; the day that I had to face his apostasy, I cried. It was so sad to me. I do pray that God would not let this be for Billy Graham, but if I were not willing to see his apostasy as apostasy, I could not pray for his repentance and that the devil would not continue to deceive him. I believe that this day Billy Graham believes a lie and it is heartbreaking. But I thank God that he has allowed me to see it, because that allows me to pray, and to possibly keep someone else from stumbling and being deceived. Until the day that Christ sets his foot on the mount of Oilves, there is opportunity for repentance. On that day I want to be found praying for those who the enemy has and is deceiving. If I deny the enemy's work, I will also deny the work that God is doing because where the enemy is working God is also working to destroy his works.

I understand that you may not agree and see things as I do; but I do not think that it is right of you and others here whom you do also encourage to berate myself and Deb and Yahsway and bygrace, and caretaker and Ripp and all the others that do see things this way.

So if we can not find unity in HIS spirit on these matters then please at least could you stop trying to shut up those you disagree with and give us at least the same respect that you give these who preach contrary to the scripture.


Maybe you do not want to hear it and that is fine, dont read it; but I assure you that God wants someone to hear it and he confirms that daily in emails and PM's from those who say thank you for speaking out.

If I do err in doctrine or you can post scripture to show the error then do, or even give a different perspective that we have not thought of, then please please do.

I would not want you to have some understanding that I need and not share it. But to continually do nothing but make rude remarks and comments and digs as some have or to cheer on those who are doing this for no other reason that to defend a human over the word of God is wrong.

The implications that have been made here that this man who clearly has publically denied Christ is the ONLY way to salvation is annointed and those who see him as apostate are not and are in danger of judgment for saying that this is apostasy is unbeleavable to me, and yes I am very aware that you did not make that implication, but you did encourage the one who did and you have done so many times in the past. That too is ubelievable to me. I truely do not understand this and I desire greatly to understand this; but not as much as I desire to see it stop.

If we do not like the message then we should refute the message based on the word that we all learn from one another, but berating or making fun of or making rude comments about the messenger for having the message is not right.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Homeschoolers,

I truly do not understand why you've posted to me in this manner. Since coming back on the board, thanks to David who corrected a sad mistake that had been made against me and some others by a certain someone, I've certainly not berated anyone nor been rude to anyone nor tried to shut you or any one up nor tried to make you or anyone else believe the way I'm led to believe. You are now accusing me of things I have not done. For that matter I've done very little encouraging. I only post what I know to be true and what I believe and as I'm led by the Holy Spirit to post. I sometimes get the very strong feeling that you really and truly do not want me on this board and that you'd really like to see me gone.
Why this is I do not know - God knows and I put it in His hands. However since you posted what you did I have to respond and what I've been and am writing is my reponse to you. I have no dislike of you and no animosity toward you nor anyone else but I refuse to accept accusations from you that aren't true.

In all honesty you've always seemed to have some sort of problem regarding me and you've shown it in both subtle and overt ways and it has always been so apparent to me. Your reasons for this I do not understand either - your reasons are known only by you and some others you shared that with. I say this because quite sometime ago I got a pm from your sister telling me how very much you and a few others dislike me and I'm certain you know who those others are that she referred to. I believe them to be the same ones you mention in your above posting. Anyway I chose to totally ignore her pm and I absolutely did not respond to her. Actually the beliefs I have are much the same as the beliefs you have.

I'm a born again believer in Jesus Christ and my aim is to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings.
The Holy Spirit leads me to post what I do on the board. I have a great deal of discernment and I use that discernment.

I enjoy being on this board and that's the way it is. Satan does all he can to discourage me and he tries to do his level best to make me just give up but the Holy Spirit keeps me going.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
GrandmaJo; you have not berated or been rude; you have only encouraged those who have been. To your credit; you do work very hard at not being rude to anyone. I am very sorry that my writing above miscommunicated that point. Others have been rude and berating of those who would speak against popular TV people and you have encouraged them at the expense of others.

I do not have anything against you apart from you fueling these battles in this way. Indeed I did do the wrong thing in banning you with out going to David first as my agreement with David had been this that I would go to him first, and because I did not do that David removed the ban.

I have the upmost respect for David and I support that decision 100% to restore the members that he did. A lot of trouble would have been avoided if I had gone to David and told him of the issues that were going on and what I wanted to do about them. It was very wrong of me not to do that though my motives were of concern for David and for the board, my actions were wrongly gone about and I do take full responsibilty for that. In the three years that I have been here David has never gone against a decision I made and has supported me fully. But I always went to him first and he did go to us - the others before he made such decisions and that was how it was supposed it go and I acted wrongly by not doing that, so I could not expect David to stand behind that.

I resigned my position as moderator here because I do not feel that God desires me in that position any longer and I believed that he did not desire me to be here at all, but since then, he has given me some things to say and I have said them. I am trying to enjoy just being a member here and enjoying the fellowship I have with others here, but I cannot be silent while people kick the sheep because they do not like what the sheep have to say and if you come to encourage those who kick the sheep then you and I will be at odds and I do not want to be at odds, but neither do I want to see people kick the sheep.

Again, I have shared many good things with you here and have been blessed by many of the posts that you have made, like the one on how do you go about showing God's love... I cannot remember the name, but you gave us some testimony in that that richly blessed me. I have never and do not now, nor would I ever question your being born again, and I now also do understand even some of the things that you did that fueled arguments that I did not understand before because I did not understand relationships of those involved and now I do.

I have no probelms with you and very much desire to heal this chasim, but not at the expense of this continuing against those who post against the apostasy.

I have never been one to take sides based on relationships, even my own children have troube with this. I side with the Bible period and you have no idea the things that went on and others who were rebuked very toughtly over some of the things that were said to you and to Jim and to HisGrace. I am not aware of the PM that you speak of much to the surprise of FM, I do not have access to such things and I asked for a copy because I assure you that I would not have taken such a thing lightly and I do not now.

Again, I do not know what else to say to you. I do desire reconcilliation. I have no no no ill feelings apart from what I have said and that is that it does not help the situation and is not right to be a cheering squad when people are berating others.

There is no one person in that whole group that I do not love sincerely. That does not change wrong to right for me.

I assure you that if these attacks against those who speak against the apsotasy will stop then I will be silent, as I have nothing ill to say of anyone except for that.

I have no problem with debate of theology or doctrine or scriptural interpretation, we all learn from each other this way and there is not one here that I have not learned something from or through and I thank God for this and for each of them. But it is wrong to beat the sheep, and it is wrong to encourage beating the sheep.

We all have different parts in this body and all parts are necessary.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
The saddest thing about this is how people have turned this thread into a personal assult on each other. Linda is correct, we do need to stand up for God and His Holy Word. When Preachers, go on T.V. and deny the truth of God's Word, they have betrayed our Savior Jesus.
There has been those who berate the messenger of the crime. Yes, it is a crime for a Christian to deny the teaching of Jesus.
We are a Christian BBS. Let's try to treat each other with love. Hiding our head under the bed is not the answer. The truth is some Preachers are more concerned with numbers than souls. Pretending this is not true, does not make it not true.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
---------------------------------------------
There has got to be a difference in a Preacher of God's Word and an inspirational speaker. Yes, an inspirational speaker can improve our lifestyle, but folks the job of a preacher is to improve our life after death. No Christian should water down the truth, side step speaking the truth, or out right refuse to answer a question for fear it will ruin their popularity. How many people are in jail this very night for declaring their personal faith in Jesus Christ? Do you think they have sympathy for Joel Osteen and his refusal to admit that it is a sin to get an abortion or that Jesus is the only way to Heaven?

God help us when we become more concern with defending Joel Osteen then speaking the truth of God's Word. Instead of taking the truth as a personal affront to one another. Folks let us pray that Joel Osteen and Billy Graham and others will become courageous and speak the truth of God's Word.
betty
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
THe reason I said this Gramajo, was because you still have yet to answer the question:
HAVE YOU READ THE INTERVIEW???

You have repeated the same things, without answering.

As for me being rude? Look back at your laughing posts!
I'll give respect where respect is due.
From the very first posts I read of yours when I first joined this board, I found you to be a firestarter, and I do not withdraw my statement of mindless banter...it is what it is.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
Did anyone see the interview with Franklin Graham by Bill O'Riley last night?

It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.

He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.

Anyways, just wanted to share that. It sure was a lot different than the Joel Olsteen interview. Shalom
 

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Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
Osteen sounds like another "Positive Thinker"... This is New Ageism.

Please read my post (the 7th one down) on this thread: http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=000776#000006
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by yahsway:
Did anyone see the interview with Franklin Graham by Bill O'Riley last night?

It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.

He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.

Anyways, just wanted to share that. It sure was a lot different than the Joel Olsteen interview. Shalom

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quote:

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KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

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now that's crazy...
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Let us please please pray on behalf of Franklin Graham that his faith not fail. I too have praised God as he has stood solid on the Gospel truth at every opportunity in the public forum; when the pope died, he gave a wonderful interview that proclaimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world on national tv and he did not compromise!!! May God protect him from the deception that his father is opperating under and my he remain strong in faith and never compromise. I too have heard rumors, but I have seen and heard the opposite from his mouth, and I pray to God that he not be shaken of the devil and that his faith not fail. May he be like Peter that his faith not fail. You know that Satan does indeed desire to shake him.
 

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Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on :
 
A local newspaper has a section called "Talk Back". People can leave anonymous messages or send emails to the paper & they are printed anonymously in this section. There was an interesting quote in yesterday's paper where the person said something along the lines of...

"Coming from a non-Christian, non-religious person, if the world had more Christians like Billy Graham, the world would be a better place."

I don't know enough about Billy Graham myself to make a call on the things that have been discussed here. I don't listen to him, and can't say as though I have ever heard him preach. I have never seen him interviewed, either. But, I found this quote interesting especially with all that's been posted here about Graham. Interesting that a non-Christian would find him to be such a "great person", and that the world needs more people like him. Now, I don't doubt he is a great person, but if we are preaching the Word, then we will cause offense. So, that's why it intrigued me that this comment would come from a non-Christian/non-religious person...

Luke 12
Not Peace but Division
49"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Amen and Amen, Redkermit!

This very point comes to my mind when I hear of the unsaved that are flocking to by Rick Warren's purpose drive life just as much as are Christians. It amzaes me that this does not speak to more people
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by yahsway:
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.

He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bygrace:
This was not the interview as a whole.
The things that were questioned were not included in your post.
KING: You don't call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don't.

KING: Is that a word you don't use?

OSTEEN: I don't use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don't. But most people already know what they're doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don't go down the road of condemning

Interesting, not using the word sinner? no condemning? Without conviction of sin, there is no salvation. I think this was one thing debated. I put up a Ray Comfort article on another thread that deals with pastors not dealing with repentance and the ramifications.
I do realize that we all have different favorites as far as preaching styles, but the content must always stay the same. It is the entire interview, asa whole that must be addressed....just because a few "correct" things are stated, this does not wash over the "incorrect" things.
bygrace

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quote:

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bygrace:
It is the entire interview, as a whole that must be addressed....just because a few "correct" things are stated, this does not wash over the "incorrect" things.

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quote:

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A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???

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quote:

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Originally posted by HisGrace:

quote:

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Originally posted by yahsway:
It was awesome to say the very least. Franklin told it like it is. That Jesus the Christ was and is the Only way and he said that ALL will bow down before Him and confess that He alone is Lord.

He did not back down to any questions asked, he did not compromise, He told the whole TRUTH. Now thats a man I have respect for in rightly dividing Gods word and standing firm on Gods word. I do not know much of his dad Billy Graham, but now Franklin was a powerful voice last night, no doubt Spirit lead.

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Amen - that just shows the difference in perception that is seen concerning these Godly men.

On this very Board these comments have been made about Franklin Graham -

"Yes! This morning on NBC's Today Show, I saw Katie Couric (ugh!) interview Franklin Graham about the pope. In the process, he laid out a clear plan of salvation.. It must have made her nuts to have to sit through it. Heh heh!"

A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???

Another Quote -
"They say Franklin Graham is a bigot, intolerrant, and that he spews hate speech."

I see the above as empty words with no substance to them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

quote:

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A born again Christian admonishing him for discussing a clear plan of salvation - I don't get it???

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They were not admonishing him, they were praising him and putting in a dig at Couric; At least that is how I took it the day that this was posted and I read it. I dont think Couric is Christian.

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quote:

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I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know.

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quote:

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When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life.

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Is this what what paul taught? I dont think so. Paul taught the Gospel that says YOU Are A SINNER, REPENT, BELIEVE, and GOD WILL CHANGE YOU.

Paul did not teach you can change!!!! Paul taught you will be changed Repent and believe! This is what jesus taught also.

KING: But you're not fire and brimstone, right? You're not pound the decks and hell and dam nation?

OSTEEN: No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time.

Maybe it was for a time? It was for the time that Jesus preached it. Has God changed?

I know that there are those here who can defend this, but I cannot understand how. I dont say that to offend, I say that because it is incomprehsible to me to be able to call this good. It is impossible for me to see this as anything but the work of Satan.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Dear Friend,

Many of you have called, written or e-mailed regarding my recent appearance on Larry King Live. I appreciate your comments and value your words of correction and encouragement.

It was never my desire or intention to leave any doubt as to what I believe and Whom I serve. I believe with all my heart that it is only through Christ that we have hope in eternal life. I regret and sincerely apologize that I was unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.

Jesus declared in John 14; I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me. I believe that Jesus Christ alone is the only way to salvation. However, it wasn’t until I had the opportunity to review the transcript of the interview that I realize I had not clearly stated that having a personal relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven. It’s about the individual’s choice to follow Him.

God has given me a platform to present the Gospel to a very diverse audience. In my desire not to alienate the people that Jesus came to save, I did not clearly communicate the convictions that I hold so precious.

I will use this as a learning experience and believe that God will ultimately use it for my good and His glory. I am comforted by the fact that He sees my heart and knows my intentions. I am so thankful that I have friends, like you, who are willing to share their concerns with me.

Thank you again to those who have written. I hope that you accept my deepest apology and see it in your heart to extend to me grace and forgiveness.

As always, I covet your prayers and I am believing for God’s best in your life,

Signed
Joel Osteen

Our true Christian love is going to be tested if we can sincerely accept the apology of this truly humbled man.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Praise be to God!!!!! Oh, I could dance the jig!!! What a wonderful wonderful fantastic confession!!!!! To God be the Glory. And thank you father God that you raised up children that were willing to not excuse this man's sin and call evil good, but that were willing to go to him and tell him his error that he might repent!

What a fantastic exmaple of exactly how the Body of Christ is supposed to work. This might not have happened if there were not saints who understood the truth and were not willing to compromise it!

God is Good Every Day !!!!!!!

Maybe someone might get his book and check it out and see if there is anything else he needs to hear. How glorious it is to see a man who is willing to say I was wrong and repent.

Thank you Father God for giving us this lesson today of how important it is to stand on your word with out compromise...it is as important to others as it is to us.
 

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Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
I found this article to be very enlightening on Osteen's beginnings and beliefs:

Joel Osteen

I really don't know much about this guy or what he preaches (other then what was said in this interview), so I did a little checking.
 

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Posted by bygrace (Member # 4556) on :
 
I am in agreement with you here Linda,

This is what can result from christians helping each other to see their errors, we all will need correction at some time or another from our brethren in Christ.

bygrace
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
And it shows much character and humility on Joels part. His ears are not dull of hearing the voice of the Lord thru correction, Praise be to God. He could of been prideful or dull of hearing (spiritually I mean) about it but he was not and that speaks volumes to me.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Deb: I agree that there is much more error in this interview than just the lack of confession of Christ being the only way.

But in Osteens defense, if hw is willing to hear that he did error in this regard, then perhaps he will be willing to see his error in other regard. This is my prayer for sure.

The point that I think that God has so very very clearly made here is that God is not glorified when we refuse to see the error of sound doctrine in our brothers and sisters because if we are unwilling to see the errors and we continue to encourage them in their deceptions, then we have become part of their stumbling. We do not ourselves pray for them as we should and we are not willing to confront them as we should because we have refused to accept that they are in error in the first place.

In this case some people clearly saw that this man did not confess that christ is the only way. They did not say "oh we know Joel and he believes and is a good man." they saw the truth and they were not afraid to say that they saw the truth and some who knew him personally wrote to him to say so. Praise God he did repent!

Here is the bigger problem still; because 30k people have perhaps been taught by him these other very clear doctrinal errors that he has spoken in this interview it is very possible that they themselves do not know that these are errors and the works of the devil. And so we see again the grave, grave danger, of our own failing to recognize and speak against false doctrine no matter who is speaking it.

Paul said esteem no man above that which is written and we must never ever be afraid to say that is not what the scripture says and prove our words by backing up with scripture. This is to contend for the faith and we should be willing to stand before any man that speaks contrary to the word of God and unashamedly and boldly be able to say... that is contrary to scripture. It should not matter if we are speaking of the Pope or Martin Luther or Spurgeon or Nee or Tozier or Copeland or Warren or Meyer or any other man that preaches the Gospel. Neither should we ever be afraid to stand and say to our brother or sister in our own community....that doctrine is in error, so that they as they go out can do the same this is how disciples are made!

I tell you, I am so encouraged by what God has done here that I just might buy his book myself and write to him about some of these other errors.

I am very encouraged by this, and again in Osteen's defense, there have been others who have written to popular tv teachers that have espoused publically doctrinal error who have been met with horrible ugly responses and not repentence as Osteen has done here. That says something to me.

Could his motivation be something else, sure, but that is a heart issue and not for us to judge. God will deal with what God needs to deal with, but I do not see that the point here.

I very much see that on this board, God himself has come forward and said...this is why you must not defend error in doctrine; this is why you must learn the truth as it is written and speak the truth as it is written and without compromise. I think God has spoken here to say that we do not do any favors to anyone when we will defend those who speak contrary to his word and have respect of persons above his written word. That is something that does not bring God glory and it hurts the one who is speaking the error. It is anything but loving and kind.

This man might not have had the opportunity to repent of this sin, if someone were not willing to see it as sin and say so. And someone here might not know that it was sin if someone here had not been willing to see it as sin and say so. And that someone may just be the next person who God is preparing to write the next letter to the next tv preacher that needs to repent.


I do not know what else to say; I am just in awe of God and so thankful that he brought this for us to see; this is exactly why we must stand on sound doctrine and against error period, no matter who speaks it.

God is good! Praise HIM all ye saints. Praise God!
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Oh, I also have one more thing to say in Osteens defense; I am very pleased to know that he is not fleecing the flock to produce his tv programing this also speaks volumes to me. If his church is supporting this ministry totally then good for them. My prayers will be that he will not use it preach anything that does not line up with scripture, but I commend him that he is not out there pulling money out of other congregations to support this tv ministry.

If he does not need solicit money, then that tells me he is most likely not using what he has been given to feed the devourer.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
God certainly has his ways of keeping us humble.

Prov. 15:33 The fear of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Joel Osteen's letter is wonderful news! I do really enjoy his preaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
WOW!! What a hot topic that has become.

I have to agree with hisgrace on this one. I don't believe Jesus preached a message of conviction on people. Look at the woman at the well. He knew her sin yet He never once condemned her. He was loving and kind and showed her His grace, that is what led her to Him.

I agree that it isn't up to us to say to someone...You are a sinner...and expect them to really know and understand God's love through that statement. Paul didn't even use those words when he wrote letters to the cities in sin.

Jesus said let him who is without sin throw the first stone right? Well, I am not in a place to throw the first stone. Are you?

I won't say whether I agree or disagree with Joe since I don't know of his teachings. Remember when Jesus was asked what to do with those that were preaching in His name yet they weren't Christians? I don't remember the exact context, but if I remember right He said God's word was still being preached either way.

I don't think it's our place to shoot down other believers. It's our place to lead people on the right path. Condemnation won't do it. If someone is preaching wrong, it's up to us to pray that God open's his eyes, again it isn't up to us to condemn. That is God's place alone.

We are to judge by the fruits of the spirit though and that is mainly so we don't follow the wrong teachers. If we know God's word, then we won't be led astray. If we pray for someone that appears to be off track a bit, God can and will bring them back.

It isn't in my hands, it's in God's alone and I choose to show love to that person. We all mess up and it's usually love that brings us back on the right track.

I don't know about you but when someone comes to me and condemns me, I only rebel more. When someone comes to me out of love and concern, then my eyes will be opened to see my faults and their love will help me to turn from my sin and move forward in Christ once again.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Joel Osteen,

Preaches a user friendly Gospel that is sending people to HELL, and the biggest part of the "Church" the tares-goat part is blinded to the fact.

He is about preaching for profit, along with the other TV evangelist.

For goodness sakes, he is charging people to hear him speak. How stupid can people be?

Can't you see Jesus, in Jerusalem, weeping over the city then, telling the disciples to put out the advertisements that he will be speaking at the local auditorium, all seats $ 19.95.

Joel Osteen never mentions sin, repentance, dying to self, taking up your cross and follow me, but that was Jesus’ message.

Jesus promised one thing that the Church of the tares will not hear, those that preach HIS message will be hated by this world. They hated HIM and Jesus said the servant is not above his Master.

You show me anyone that has a large following and I will show you a man that is not preaching the Truth of Jesus. I will show you a self deceived enemy of the cross or worse an outright charlatan.

To answer Linda’s questions

How is one to come to Christianity without doctrine?

Confess Jesus with your mouth and believe with the heart. But unless you have testimony similar to the thief on the cross you will learn the doctrine of Jesus, you will die to self, you will crucify this flesh, you will take up your personal cross and follow Jesus, if you don’t you want be part of The Kingdom of Yahweh, you will die and go to Hell.

Is this a Biblical philosophy for a preacher to take?

Not just this preacher, but any preacher? No, because the Scriptures declare that all Scripture is profitable for doctrine, instruction and reproof in holiness and righteous.

How does this line up with scripture?

Joel Osteen does not line up with Scripture and neither do any of the other TV evangelists that preach the Word of Faith message.

Professing themselves to be wise they become fools.

The foolish virgins will not be part of that glorious Kingdom of Yahweh.

You can fall from Grace, you can sin away your day of Grace.

How shall you escape, if you neglect so great a Salvation?

Work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling.

Study to show yourself approved a workman that need not be ashamed on the Day of Judgment.

Many in that day shall say Lord, Lord, but Jesus will say depart from me you worker of iniquity, I never knew you. But we did many good things in your name they say. Sorry He will say I never knew you.

Jesus is only responsible to forgive the sins we confess. The day you came to Jesus if you truly repented, all your sins were forgiven to that point. But from that point forward there is a continual washing of the Word to the mind, a renewing of relationship daily with Jesus.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This verse applies to the believer after the new birth

Forgive us our debts as we forgive others

This verse very plainly states if you will not forgive neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you.

The story of the man that was forgiven a great debt by the King and then went and refused to forgive the man that owed him is a picture of a born again believer being thrown into Hell because he refused to forgive a small debt owed to him.

I pray Yahweh break the blinder that Satan has put on the Church, I am not just talking about the tare either.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
It is good to see you Dale; I just told Drew that the Lord had brought you to my thoughts and you have been on my mind prayerfully for about 4 days now and I hoped that all is well with you and your house. Drew must have been praying with me for a word from you because hear you are within less than 48 hours! God is Good! And it is good to see you!
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Thanks for thinking about me, your prayer are welcomed.

I have been away for 3 weeks praying and studing the Scriptures.

My burden for the Church has only increased.

Judgement begins at the House of Yahweh, The Church.

The cup of Iniquity is Full, time is drawing to an end.

Repent Church, or be left behind

and don't think that if you find yourself in the Tribulation you will not take the mark and be saved, if you can't live for Yahweh now, in the ease of today, you will never make it in the Great Tribulation.

Repent now, cry unto the Lord now, make your life a life of holiness now while there is time.

Without holiness, without seperation from this world no man/woman shall see Yahweh.

REPENT, make straight His paths,

REPENT, He is returning soon
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Brother Dale it is great to see you and to read your wisdom, faith, and insight. How many are being led astray by "itching ears".


Joel Osteen is poster child in the WOF. From his book,"Your Best Life Now":

http://www.parable.com/parable/item_0446532754.htm&ct=Chapter_Excerpt


Chapter One
Enlarging Your Vision

I heard a story about a man on vacation in Hawaii with his wife. He was a good man who had achieved a modest measure of success, but he was coasting along, thinking that he'd already reached his limits in life. One day, a friend was driving the couple around the island, showing them the sights. They stopped to admire a gorgeous house set high on a hill. The property was replete with beautiful palm trees and lush green gardens in a picturesque, peaceful setting with a panoramic view overlooking the ocean.

As the man gazed at the magnificent home, he commented to his wife and friend, "I can't even imagine living in a place like that."

Right there, something inside him said, Don't worry. You won't. You will never live in a great place like that.

Startled at his own thoughts, he asked himself, What do you mean?

As long as you can't imagine it, as long as you can't see it, then it is not going to happen for you. The man correctly realized that his own thoughts and attitudes were condemning him to mediocrity. He determined then and there to start believing better of himself, and believing better of God.

It's the same way with us. We have to conceive it on the inside before we're ever going to receive it on the outside. If you don't think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. It's not God's lack of resources or your lack of talent that prevents you from prospering. Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God's best.

Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God's best.

You, too, may have assumed that you've already peaked, that you've reached your limits in life, that you will never be more successful. I'll never achieve significance, do something meaningful, or enjoy the good things in life that I've seen others enjoy.

Sad to say, you are exactly right ... unless you are willing to change your thinking. That's why the first step to living at your full potential is to enlarge your vision. To live your best life now, you must start looking at life through eyes of faith, seeing yourself rising to new levels. See your business taking off. See your marriage restored. See your family prospering. See your dreams coming to pass. You must conceive it and believe it is possible if you ever hope to experience it.

To conceive it, you must have an image on the inside of the life you want to live on the outside. This image has to become a part of you, in your thoughts, your conversation, deep down in your subconscious mind, in your actions, in every part of your being.

Envision Your Success

From the time she was a little girl, Tara Holland dreamed of becoming Miss America. In 1994, she entered the Miss Florida pageant and won the title of first runner-up. She decided to try again the following year. She entered the same contest, and once again, won the prize as first runner-up. Tara was tempted to get down and discouraged, but she didn't do that. She stayed focused on her goal.

She decided she needed to change her environment, so she moved to Kansas, and in 1997, she entered the Miss Kansas pageant and won the title. That same year, she went on to be crowned Miss America. Tara Holland saw her dream come to pass.

In an interview after the pageant, someone asked Tara the secret to her success. She admitted that after she had lost twice in a row at the state-level competitions, she had been tempted to give up, but instead she went out and rented dozens of videos of local pageants, state pageants, Miss Teen, Miss Universe, Miss World-whatever she could find. She rented hundreds of videos of various pageants and watched them over and over again.

As Tara watched each young woman crowned a winner, she pictured herself in that situation. She pictured herself receiving the crown. She pictured herself walking down the runway in victory. Time and time again she envisioned herself winning. Seeing herself as a winner, said Tara, was the key to her success.

Another reporter asked her if she was nervous walking down the runway in front of millions of people watching on television and with the announcer singing the famous Miss America song.

Tara's response was interesting. "No, I wasn't nervous at all," she said. "You see, I had walked down that runway thousands of times before."

Have you ever walked down that runway? Have you ever seen yourself accomplishing your dreams? Do you keep that vision of victory in front of you? Tara Holland knew she would never be a winner until she first saw herself as a winner. She had to reprogram her mind, to rid herself as much as possible of the hurtful memories of losing. She had to replace that vision in her mind of herself as Miss Runner-up. She had to develop a can-do attitude. She saw herself stepping onto the winner's platform. She saw herself walking down that runway in victory. She created an environment of faith and success.

What you keep before your eyes will affect you. You will produce what you're continually seeing in your mind. If you foster an image of defeat and failure, then you're going to live that kind of life. But if you develop an image of victory, success, health, abundance, joy, peace, and happiness, nothing on earth will be able to hold those things from you.

Too many times we get stuck in a rut, thinking we've reached our limits. We don't really stretch our faith; we don't believe for anything bigger. But God wants us to constantly be increasing, to be rising to new heights. He wants to increase you in His wisdom and help you to make better decisions. God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas, and creativity.

The Scripture says that God wants to pour out "His far and beyond favor." God wants this to be the best time of your life. But if you are going to receive this favor, you must enlarge your vision. You can't go around thinking negative, defeated, limiting thoughts. Well, I've gone as far as my education will allow. Or, I've had this sickness for years. I guess it's my lot in life.

To experience this immeasurable favor, you must rid yourself of that small-minded thinking and start expecting God's blessings, start anticipating promotion and supernatural increase. You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it. In other words, you must make room for increase in your own thinking, then God will bring those things to pass. Until you learn how to enlarge your vision, seeing the future through your eyes of faith, your own wrong thinking will prevent good things from happening in your life. God will not pour fresh, creative ideas and blessings into old attitudes.

You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The man inherited his father's ministry, when John Osteen died. He has no theological credentials,(he was an ORU drop-out). He is a great story-teller and motivational speaker, with Madison Avenue charisma. He tells people what they want to hear, not the true Gospel.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
While there is no agreement on who is or who is not the best ministers, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and what they feel in their hearts. I do have to say though that whenever I've listened to Joel Osteen and also to Billy Graham, I've only heard them preach only the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Scary stuff Drew, very scary stuff. This is like reading Napolean Hill. This is occultic, it is not faith. This is not God. Thank you for posting this excerpt from Osteen's book.

Sometimes I wonder if this is not a future event but is now....

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


This is indeed what the masses want to hear.

Today, I was driving and talking to God and I was thinking about this very thing with itching ears and how the whole world wants to hear how to have the world's goods and the world's success and I was reminded of this which I have said before:

If God never answered a single prayer from this day forward....if I never had one moment of feeling his blessing in this life from this day forward, If I had to live the rest of this life in squaller and torture and pain, what God has already done for me would be enough that I should seek his face and sing his praises every day from now until the end of time and back again.

But sadly, this is not what people want to hear and it wont sell a million copies and it wont draw a crowd of 30k on Sunday with checkbooks in hand.

Luke 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

If our treasure is here our heart cannot be in heaven.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

At the very least, I would say that Osteen is double minded.

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Remember the “Trojan Horse”?

The Trojan Horse has now been pulled into the Church.

America first, and now America is bringing it around the world.

Satan saw that he could achieve greater success by sending his forces into the Church than by shedding the blood of the Faithful.

Satan sent in the easy believism, the cost nothing Gospel.

The charismatic renewal teaching.

Teach people to speak in tongues.

Teach people how to prophesy.

Every thing is about teaching. The Church is full of people that give mental accent to Jesus is Lord.

What you say with your mouth means nothing. Hear me!

What you say with your mouth means nothing!!!!

What matters is what your life says.

2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

Is your light hid under a bushel?

Are you a new cruse for Yahweh to put the salt in.

2Ki 2:20 And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought it to him.

Why a new cruse?

Why a cruse at all?

Why not just a hand full of salt?

Those 120 in that upper room did not have anyone teach them anything. They waited until they were endued with power. They did not speak about Yahweh God, they spoke for Yahweh God.

The True Gospel is not in word only, not in intellect, but in word and deed.

The Apostle Paul said I come not with enticing word of men’s wisdom but with demonstration…

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:


I need to be taught by no man, I have been given the Holy Ghost to lead me.

When a man/woman is lost, the Holy Ghost brings that man/woman to the Law, the school master, to teach him his transgressions against a Holy God. When the Holy Ghost has truly convicted a person of their sin and a need of a Savior, the Holy Ghost introduces that soul to Jesus and that soul accepts or rejects Jesus gift of Salvation.

Now a war begin in the soul of man, there is now a dual nature struggling for this life.

Then as Jesus is revealed to the heart, the person begins to understand that this same Holy Ghost is how Jesus was able to become the victor over all sin. And that now the Holy Ghost is poured out to empower men/women to live victorious over sin. As men and women walk in the Spirit they gain victory over the flesh.

The only soul that will be saved is the broken heart, the continually broken heart.

Only you can answer that question

Is my heart continually broken, over my sin, my missing the mark?

Is my heart continually broken over the sin of others?

If not read Ezekiel chapter 9 about the ink horn.

See the picture Yahweh is painting.

Repent and ask Yahweh to break your heart that His judgment will not fall upon you.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

There is only one evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost given in Scripture.

And they spoke with tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.

People in the 21st century are not into tarrying until endued with power, we want what we want and we want it NOW !!!!
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
BecauseHelives, I do agree with some of what you are saying. Most of it actually.

However, as a believer I can read your words and take it to heart knowing it's God's word. I can look at the words and see the warning and know that you speak those words because you care about the unsaved people.

However, I don't believe that is how we are to preach to new believers. Not even close. Jesus first showed love and compassion. He didn't only tell people you are a sinner repent, he spent time loving and caring for them. Feeding them even.

I don't believe that scaring someone to death is the way to draw people to Jesus. I also don't agree with "feel good" messages. However, even that message can do good. If people are saved and go to local churches after, they will be discipled there. If the church is doing their part anyway. That is your job and mine. To pray and ask God each week...who do you want me to reach out to today. It could be by inviting them over for Sunday dinner and getting to know them. Then, keep spending time with that person and calling them. Witness God's love first by your words and your actions, then teach them the deep things of the bible.

We need to win a person's trust and not just scare the living daylights out of them. I don't know of any instance in the bible where Jesus did that. He even healed people and sent them on their way without preaching to them. He knew they would desire to know more of who He was after that. He knew they would be likely to seek after Him.

If Joel is planting seeds, it may or may not be happening the right way. However our job is to be the ones that water the seeds after they leave the meetings, or when new people show up in church.

It's easy to sit in a Christian forum and preach. The harder part comes when we are to put our words into action and actually find people and show them the "real" JESUS!
 

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Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 
Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.


I went to Lakewood (Osteen's Church) and went to a class on Baptisum of the Holy Spirit.

They teach (and pressure you) that it is like a new language where you have to LEARN it one word at a time.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
"Before I can preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, law, and judgment."
-John Wesley

Carmela,

How did Yeshua talk to the religious crowd?

What was the message of John the Baptist to everyone?

How did John the Baptist talk to the religious crowd?

Carmela, I believe we are in the days just before the return of Yeshua. It is time to get people serious bout their relationship with Yahweh. Satan has lulled the Church to sleep. There are the watchmen on the wall, they will cry aloud and warn the people.

Carmela, I oppose easy believism with every breath in my being.
Yeshua said many in that day will say Lord, Lord. These are Church members; many are here on this board. I for one do not want their blood on my hand. (Read Ezekiel chapter 33)

How much of any man/woman does Yahweh get when He purchases that individual?

Does Yahweh get 50% maybe Yahweh only get 10% or maybe 90%?

You say that silly, Yahweh get 100%.

That is right, Yahweh said “Mar 8:35 For whosoeverwill save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. “

Yeshua did not come to share His Life mixed with our miserable life.

Yeshua came to Live His Life through us.

But this is not the message being preached in 90% of Churches in America.

The Churches in America are preaching Yeshua came to make you happy, make you prosperous, healthy, and make you a better person.

That is not the message of Yeshua, not the message of Paul, John, Mark, Luke, Timothy or any other writer under the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Gospel is the messages of the Kingdom, that Yahweh desires sons and daughters, but the catch is that they all must be conformed to the image of His Son “Yeshua”. No other image will do. There will be no half breeds in Yahweh’s Kingdom.

Only those dying to self daily, have their mind washed with the Word of Yahweh daily will enter, only those offering their bodies a living sacrifice daily, which is our reasonable service will enter. Only those taking up their cross daily will be part of that Kingdom.

The Apostle Paul died pressing forward toward the mark the high calling “being transformed into the image of Yeshua.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yeshua did not dye so we could get out of going to Hell.

Yeshua dyed so that His Father would be glorified.

The only reson men and women are born again, is that Yahweh would be glorified.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
The religious leaders had seen the power of God working. They saw but choose to turn their head and ignore it. That is why Jesus spoke to them as He did. Darn, I can't remember the scripture I was reading in school when God showed me that the religious leaders saw the miracles that Paul was doing, yet they got together and ended up speaking against it. They didn't deny the miracles, they just said they could no longer speak in Jesus Name. The couldn't give God the glory. I had to teach on this passage and when I prayed about it, God showed me that where they made their mistake was when they started talking to each other about it. Then, one person speaks negative against it and it plaques the minds of all others because it's always the negative words that we are drawn to. This is why Jesus spoke to them so harshly.

John was speaking a basic message to all...repent and be baptized. That is an extemely important message we need to send to others, but we can do it without pointing out someone's sins to them and saying you are a sinner. Of course we all need to know this, but I feel before we start pointing a finger at someone we should first show love and compassion and then out of the love we have for them start teaching them the rest. I'm not saying wait months, just spend time with a person a few times and show you care and they will receive the words "you are a sinner" much better then if we come across as if we are judging them.

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Carmela, I believe we are in the days just before the return of Yeshua. It is time to get people serious bout their relationship with Yahweh. Satan has lulled the Church to sleep. There are the watchmen on the wall, they will cry aloud and warn the people.

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Carmela, I oppose easy believism with every breath in my being.
Yeshua said many in that day will say Lord, Lord. These are Church members; many are here on this board. I for one do not want their blood on my hand. (Read Ezekiel chapter 33)

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How much of any man/woman does Yahweh get when He purchases that individual?

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The Churches in America are preaching Yeshua came to make you happy, make you prosperous, healthy, and make you a better person.

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Originally posted by Carmela:
The religious leaders had seen the power of God working. They saw but choose to turn their head and ignore it. That is why Jesus spoke to them as He did.. They didn't deny the miracles, they just said they could no longer speak in Jesus Name. The couldn't give God the glory. I had to teach on this passage and when I prayed about it, God showed me that where they made their mistake was when they started talking to each other about it. Then, one person speaks negative against it and it plaques the minds of all others because it's always the negative words that we are drawn to. This is why Jesus spoke to them so harshly.

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After reading this all....

This makes me Embarrassed. I am humiliated to be called a Christian. This makes me want to seriousely puke.

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Think how it must make Yahweh feel.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
I am a bit confused here. Some of the names Andyman listed I have heard preach. I don't hear any liberal views coming from them. In fact, I heard Joyce Meyers's on the radio one day and I was convicted of something so I am sure others are also.

When I signed up for this site, I was asked if I was born again. I am not being sarcastic here, but I am wondering what born again means to some of you. I ask because I see people put yes yet our views seem to be so different sometimes.

This is a genuine question. I am wondering if we all agree, nothing more.

Thanks.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
TY bygrace for replying to me. I don't have intention on leaving and I don't get upset or discouraged by posts because I know we all do the best we can on following after God according to what we know. Plus like you said, I learn a lot when people disagree and I enjoy that. I like being stretched to the limit so that I don't end up getting comfortable with what I know and never growing any more. We need growth to become a better Christian and more knowledgeable.

I guess I asked the question because I was wondering if being born again means the same thing to everyone.

Oh, and really enjoy becauseHElives. If he just sat back and agreed with everything I type, then I wouldn't learn other views and sometimes we need to take the views of others before God and see if what we believe is correct or if we are missing something along the way. I don't know his beliefs, but they seem similar to the Jehovah Witness beliefs so far so I want to learn more. Of course I'm not labeling him either. That would be a mistake since labels to me, should never be placed on people. Plus, he seems like a man with much knowledge and that is good.

Again thanks so much. I enjoyed reading what you have learned from others.
 

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Posted by andyman (Member # 4781) on :
 

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hello Andyman,

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After reading this all....

This makes me Embarrassed. I am humiliated to be called a Christian. This makes me want to seriousely puke.

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Think how it must make Yahweh feel.

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Daniel 11:38
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

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Honestly. Their gospel is about substituting Yahweh into a genie in a bottle who grants all of our temporal wishes if we only know the right formula and possess the right amount of faith.

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They actually worship faith since they believe that faith is a force, words are the container of the force and what you speak is what will be.

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There are some who actually say that if you say that you laughed so hard you almost died, you may actually die! This is a damnable heresy that decreases the majesty, wonder, and power of Yahweh, elevates man, and distorts the purpose for salvation.

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Again, twisted. We need to watch our words, the tongue is a powerful weapon. Ask Jesus, or read it in James. We are not to speak ANY words in vein. Our tongue should be harnessed. This is what I believe is being said by the speakers mentioned in your earlier post.

I would like to add my HEEEELLLOOOOO here. Jesus spoke of verbal curses many times. All the people had to do was speak a curse and it was done. Jesus said we have the power to bring forth life or death, blessings or curses with our tongue. Does this mean HE is lying to us? I hope you are not going to tell me that Jesus didn't speak the truth. What about when Jesus told us to do good to them that curse us? He didn't say hurt us, run us down...he said "CURSE".(Matt. 5:44)
Luke 6:28
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
(KJV)


As softtouch said, we need to make sure we are praying in God's will. If I start asking for God to give me all kinds of material items so I can be rich, He may bless me with them as He did Job and others, but I don't think He will. Why? Because Job and the others had a pure motive in their hearts and they used their fortune wisely. Will we? Some will and they will be blessed. Others only want selfish gain, and I don't beleive they will get the same outcome from their prayers. Solomon asked for wisdom which pleased God, so God gave Solomon more than he could have ever imagined in return for having a pure desire in his heart. This is what I have heard some of the preachers listed speaking, not what is laid before me on this post.

If someone loses faith in God because they don't get what they are asking, then it means they didn't have the right motives in their heart. It also could mean that they are basically saying "God, give me what I want and I will follow you" Well, God knows the true motive of their hearts, and this isn't the heart of a true Christian.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I think that Andy is pretty accurate in what he says about this teaching that is so popular today; faith is not a force. Not according to the scripture.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen.

If faith is a force then it has power of its own; but faith is not a force; faith is a conviction of belief in the power of the thing or one that faith is placed in.

We can have faith in our own abilities.
We can have faith in the creation
We can have faith in another being
We can have faith in God.

Faith has no power on its own to do anyting and thus it is not a force. Faith must be placed in something to even be faith. The power exisits in what faith is placed in and not in faith itself.

You will note that the AntiChrist will honor the god of forces:

Daniel 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Faith is not a force.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
We are not calling faith a force, that is a word that you guys are putting on it. No where have I ever heard anyone call or believe faith to be a force until now in your writings.
However, I wonder if maybe faith isn't being taken as seriously at the same time. I think we should all do a study on faith, from the bible, not our wording added.

One thing I have heard Joyce Meyers and others preach is that we are to ALWAYS, whether at church or listening to speakers, we are to go home and read God's words and pray about the message. I see lots of people running these speakers down, but I wonder how many have spent hours with the bible and asking God to show them the truth in prayer.

I also keep hearing that maybe we are not reading the word for ourselves. I have spent the last 2 years of my life seeking God and studying the bible. I have spent more time in prayer that I ever use to. Fasting also. My teachers in bible school don't just tell us their opinions. They give us books of the bible to teach to the class and we have to read that book or verses and pray about them and then we all take turns teaching the class what God has revealed to us. I go to church every morning, classes for several hours, then I come home and read the word and pray some more. I have spent hours each day studying and praying to learn the truth from God, not man.

Many believe you can't really hear from God. I don't believe this because I have heard from God, I have experienced God in new ways. SO, when someone tries to take something that God himself has taught me, I just push it aside. I no longer get upset over posts or if anyone disagrees with me because I don't take offense to people anymore.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
The Star Wars movies is the only time I have heard the word "force" being used when referring to good.
However I've never heard anyone at all call faith a "force."
Whenever any one has said the word faith, they say it exactly like it is and that is faith.

God certainly does speak to us through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit speaks to us in a very quiet voice and if we are being quiet enough ourselves and listen then we hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to us and we know what it is the Holy Spirit is directing us to do. Then we obey.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I was responding to andyman's comment in which he used the term. The concept of faith being a force is a very well known or common teaching among what some people call the Word of Faith Movement. It is a concept that was taught by Kenyon; Kennneth Copeland teaches that faith is a force. This concept is further expounded upon by others today who are teaching the practices of creative visualization.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
oh ok. Well, I have never heard that term used and I don't agree with it. However, I don't really spend my time listening to different people preach either because I find all I need in God's word and through prayer.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 

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I don't really spend my time listening to different people preach either because I find all I need in God's word and through prayer.

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Amen and Amen!
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Carmela,

I truly enjoy your postings and you do have a lot of insight, wisdom, and knowledge. God bless you.
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
Thank you Gramajo.

Just for the record, I don't disagree with listening to ministers either. Some people need the help from a teacher to learn God's word at a deeper level. However, I'm in bible school, although out for the summer, so I am at an advantage. Not to mention I only get one channel on TV lol
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 

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Originally posted by Carmela:
Thank you Gramajo.

Just for the record, I don't disagree with listening to ministers either. Some people need the help from a teacher to learn God's word at a deeper level. However, I'm in bible school, although out for the summer, so I am at an advantage. Not to mention I only get one channel on TV lol

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
His Grace,
It worries me that you do not have a Church home. While it is nice to listen to Preachers, there is nothing that takes the place of a Church home. In Sunday School we learn disclipleship.
Supportinig your Church finacially and through attendance is not only good for you, but it is important for a Christian's personal growth.

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I do understand. I went to Church for 20 years with my children without my husband. He used to make fun of me and say I should just pitch a tent on the Church lawn because I went 3 times a week to Church. God blessed me for attending Church without my husband. Now my husband is saved and takes me, good thing cause I cannot drive anymore due to health issues.

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AV-conversation 13; 13

1) manner of life, conduct, behaviour, deportment

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You took care of your part and God took care of HIS.
 

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Posted by LaurieFL (Member # 3794) on :
 
Just to add support to what Miss betty ahs said and to give you encouragement His Grace, I will add my input. My husband is also not saved. He knows that my relationship with God and my walk with Christ are of utmost importance to me and that my involvement with a church is necessary. He enjoys the time he gets to himself on Sunday mornings, frankly. I get the feeding from the word that I need, the fellowship with Christian brothers and sisters, and we get lots of prayer from the church for my husband, which I think means a lot!

We also get invited to dinner get-togethers and picnics, which my husband will come to, which puts him around other Christians, especially men, in a non-threatening environment. Knowing that several of these Christian men carry a special burden in their heart for my husband is so encouraging to me.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Thanks Laurie
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Just one more thought, I told my husband once that although I loved him very much I would not go to hell for him. That no person was worth going to hell for. Life is a long life even today if we live 100 years, hell is for eternity.
No one is worth going to hell for.
bettt
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 
Hi HisGrace ...

I would also like to add a note of encouragement as well. I am in agreement with what some of the others are saying. Not knowing all of the specifics to your situation though, I suppose it could be the "easier said than done" scenario.

Texas Grandma is right. It can take a long to find the right church home, even when you're making the effort. My husband and I have been in that process ever since we moved, although I will admit sometimes we try harder than others. We have become discouraged by the lack of solid preaching in the pulpit. No church is perfect, but good bible preaching is a must!

Anyway, I will pray that the Lord will lead you to a good bible believing church and for you to have the courage and ability to attend.

I have a long list of people to pray for concerning their salvation. None of my family are saved. I will add your husband to the list.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
His Grace,

The Lord will always keep you under his wing and He will always bless you for your very strong faith and your continuing faith in following Him. God bless you!
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Just one more thought, I told my husband once that although I loved him very much I would not go to hell for him. That no person was worth going to hell for. Life is a long life even today if we live 100 years, hell is for eternity.
No one is worth going to hell for.
bettt

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Originally posted by hardcore:
We must always choose Jesus first, no matter how much we may love someone here on earth.

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Don't worry folks, Jesus is always #1 in my life -I couldn't survive without him.

Thanks again for your comments. Group hug to all.


 

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