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Author
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Topic: New WOTM radio
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timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
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posted
BTW after listening to a few more of his sermons I wrote them an email and this is the response I got back from his ministry.
Tim,
Here at Heartcry, yes, we do affirm Calvinism in that we believe that the doctrines of grace (ie. The 5 points of Calvinism) accurately describe what the Scriptures state concerning salvation. However, we prefer not to call ourselves Calvinist for several reasons: 1) we are Baptists and if you know anything about church history, the Calvinist killed Baptists during the time of the Reformation. 2) There is an overarching Biblical Theology called "covenant theology" that true Calvinists hold to that we see as unbiblical.
We rather affirm "new covenant theology." 3) We have a radically different view of the church than a true Calvinist does. For a true Calvinist, the church is comprised of those who live in the geographical surrounding it.
They believe that the church is the New Testament parallel to the nation of Israel. For us, the church is comprised of born-again believers. The church is the New Testament parallel of God's remnant within Israel. Thus, this explains our differing views of baptism. Now, concerning your question. The reason why Brother Paul preaches so passionately about holiness is precisely because it is Biblical. The Bible speaks passionately about holiness and because the Scriptures are our guide, and not a theological system, that is why Paul preaches as he does.
God bless, Marc Glass
This is my original email:
> I was blessed with one of Paul Washers sermons the other day. It was
> the very powerful youth message MP3 from sermon audio.
>
> I was very touched and but found your statement of faith quite a
> surprise as I have never heard a reformed preacher talk so
> impassionedly about our "call to holiness".
>
> I was just wondering if you could please articulate how it all fits
> into the doctrine. As I have found reformed theology to be very
> lacking in this area.
>
> It would be a huge blessing to me as it is something I have been
> struggling with since rejecting the charismatic doctrine in favour of
> Calvinism after the recent death of my sister.
>
> Yours in Christ
> Tim
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
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posted
Actually I went to his web site and listened to a few more of his sermons and I take back what I said about his preaching not in line with his Calvinistic Doctrinal stance. I now realize it fits perfectly and is one of the best "calls to holiness” that I have ever heard from a reformed preacher since -Jonathan Edwards, "sinners in the hands of an angry God".
I now realize that the works he was talking about was nothing to do with salvation, but a way of testing to see whether you are saved.
If you notice, he never alludes to people being able to come to Christ on their own. He is basically saying that if you are among the elect, then God will ensure your salvation and God is basically using him as one of His many instruments of rededication, refocus & refinement. He is talking about testing yourself to see if you are in a right relationship with God. Absolutely “spot-on” IMO.
He also makes reference to church history and the doctrines of the reformation and how the church in America has apostatized in the last 50 years by becoming seeker friendly and making the Christian life far too easy and superficial, thereby creating a false sense of hope for those that are not and will never be saved (see the TBN & general mega church style of preaching for examples). I love his quote that Christianity in America is 3000miles wide but only an inch thick and his affirmation that although God is love, His primary characteristic is his absolute Holiness and uncompromising justice.
If you are in any doubt about what I am saying then check out his statement of faith on his web site. I really love the fact that someone is now coming and beating the apostate evangelical emerging church at its own game. I would not be surprised if this preacher is at the forefront of true revival for the American church system or at least the southern Baptist movement. I will praying for him and his ilk.
BTW. I am not slamming Americans in particular, but I lived there for 10 year so I am talking from experience and at least there is some life left in it. The church in Europe is dead! Also, here in Nigeria the church is in an awful state following on from the TBN style of pop-church with the added element of a deeply steeped occultist and needy society being easy pickings for the plethora of prosperity and hyper-charismatic preachers.
Anyhow apologies for my previous comments that were posted in haste after only superficial first glance at his ministry.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
How can someone who loves the Lord, not want to work for Him? Of course we can never repay what Jesus did for us, but we work for Him because we love Him.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
timspong, is it "Works" for a fig tree to produce figs?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brian3:
Yeah I have alot of Paul washers sermons and videos and man is he powerfull! I will try to post alot of his stuff soon!
I listened to one of his sermons the other day. It was very impassioned. What is his denominational background? He seems to preach a very "works" based soteriology or it definately comes across like that.
Never mind I found it and it seems he is Reformed ie Calvinist, so his preaching style doesn't seem to gel with that conviction. I pasted some contentious points from his statement of faith on his web site.
http://www.heartcrymissionary.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=59
ELECTION. Election is God's eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life-- not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ-- in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS. Those whom God has accepted in the Beloved, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end; and though they may fall, through neglect and temptation, into sin, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the Church, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be renewed again unto repentance, and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
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Brian3
Advanced Member
Member # 6417
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posted
Yeah I have alot of Paul washers sermons and videos and man is he powerfull! I will try to post alot of his stuff soon!
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I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20
Posts: 63 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2007
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Brian3, quote:
BaBoom!
Wanna hear passionate preaching like you may have never heard? This is a four minute sample video of Paul Washer at a youth conference with 5000 kids. While we have aired this sermon on the radio, we thought you would like to see the video. If you have never heard this, sample this four minute video...
from the web site....
the kind of preaching the American Church (all denominations) needs to hear!
thank you for the link
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Brian3
Advanced Member
Member # 6417
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posted
check the new look out! web page
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I have been crucified with Christ,and I no longer live,but Christ lives in me. Galatians 2:20
Posts: 63 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2007
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