Christian Chat Network

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
| | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Miscellaneous   » General Discussion   » Christmas: Christian or Pagan?

   
Author Topic: Christmas: Christian or Pagan?
art
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good post Truthseeker
I agree with you 100 % but not very many believers hold this view.We are told to remember his "death" , "til he come" but never are told to remember his birth. However we all rejoice that he was born but this can be done 365 days a year.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truth Seeker
Advanced Member
Member # 767

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Truth Seeker   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
With the “holiday” season in full swing I thought that some might need to see the other side of the so called “Christian” holiday Christmas. The fact that no Christian around during the lives of the Disciples ever observed “the birthday of Jesus” or that the colonists of America banned the celebration of Christmas altogether should make you look further into the whole “Christmas” celebration. There is no Scriptural evidence whatsoever that says we are to observe a celebration for “the birth of Christ.”

Let us examine the whole December 25th myth. Many use December 25th as the day for the birth of our Messiah Yahshua but is it really? The description in Scripture of His birth speaks of a time when the shepherds are in the field with their flocks at night, it is a time to be taxed, and also a time when Bethlehem was full of travelers. (“no room for them in the inn” Luke 2:1-8) Midwinter simply does not fit in with the time that is depicted for us in Scripture. Surely the shepherds weren’t out in the fields with their herd in the winter. Keeping in mind that winter in that part of the world is cold and rainy and that shepherds bring in the flocks for the season. Biblical Scholars have tried to pinpoint the exact day of Jesus’ birth but all have only been able to make an estimate. Many believe that September 29th is the exact date, but still several think that too is an estimate with the date ranging between September 20th and November 6th. So why celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th?

The Encyclopedia Americana, 1944 edition, says:
"Christmas .... It was, according to many authorities, not celebrated in the first centuries of the Christian church, as the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth ...." (The "Communion," which is instituted by New Testament Bible authority, is a memorial of the death of Christ.) "... A feast was established in memory of this event in the fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered it to be celebrated forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ's birth existed."

The Roman Empire had been pagan, and prior to the 4th century, Christians were few in number and persecuted by the government and pagans alike. Then the Emperor Constantine professed Christianity, placing it on an equal footing with paganism. Christianity suddenly became popular. However most of the "converts" had been brought up in pagan customs, the chief of which is December 25th. They enjoyed this festival of joy and merrymaking, and they did not want to give it up!!

The pagan Manichaeism identified the SON of God with the physical SUN, giving the new "converts" an excuse to call December 25th (re-birth of the SUN) the birthday of the SON of God.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, some Latin’s, as early as 354AD, may have transferred the birthday of Christ from January 6th to December 25th, which was then a Mithraic feast or birthday of the unconquered SUN. The Syrians and Armenians who clung to January 6th accused the Romans of sun worship and idolatry, claiming the December 25th festival was invented by the disciples of Cerinthus. So you can see that the December 25th was a pagan celebration long before the birth of our Messiah Jesus Christ.

The word "Christmas" means "Mass of Christ," or, as it came to be shortened, "Christ-Mass." It came to non-Christians and Protestants from the Roman Catholic Church. And where did they get it? NOT from the New Testament -- NOT from the Bible -- NOT from the original apostles who were personally instructed by Christ -- but it gravitated in the fourth century into the Roman Church from paganism. Since the celebration of Christmas has come to the world from the Roman Catholic Church, and has no authority but that of the Roman Catholic Church, let us examine the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, published by that church. Under the heading "Christmas," you will find: "Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church ... the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt." "Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas." And in the same encyclopedia, under the heading "Natal Day," we find that the early Catholic father, Origen, acknowledged this truth: "... In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world" Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 edition, has this: "Christmas (i.e., the Mass of Christ) .... Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church ...."It was not instituted by Christ or the apostles, or by Bible authority. It was picked up afterward from paganism.

If we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what are its real origin? It is a chief custom of the corrupt system denounced all through Bible prophecies and teachings under the name of Babylon and it started and originated in the original Babylon of ancient Nimrod! Nimrod built the tower of Babel, the original Babylon, ancient Nineveh, and many other cities. He organized this world's first kingdom. The name Nimrod, in Hebrew, is derived from "Marad," meaning "he rebelled." From many ancient writings, considerable is learned of this man, who started the great organized worldly apostasy from God that has dominated this world until now. Nimrod was so evil, it is said he married his own mother, whose name was Semiramis. After Nimrod's untimely death, his so-called mother-wife, Semiramis, propagated the evil doctrine of the survival of Nimrod as a spirit being. She claimed a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree. Some also equate the fact that Nimrod placed presents under the tree just like Santa Claus did.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonian "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrous worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Babylonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ! Thus, during the fourth and fifth centuries, when the pagans of the Roman world were "accepting" the new popular "Christianity" by the hundreds of thousands, carrying their old pagan customs and beliefs along with them, merely cloaking them with Christian-sounding names, the Madonna and "Mother and Child" idea also became popularized, especially at Christmas time. Every Christmas season you'll hear sung and chanted dozens of times the hymn "Silent Night, Holy Night," with its familiar "Mother and Child" theme. Christmas caroling is also another tradition of the pagans, as they would walk through their towns singing drunken songs in front of stores and houses.

We, who have been born in such a babylonish world, reared and steeped in these things all our lives, have been taught to revere these things as holy and sacred. We never questioned to see where they came from -- whether they came from the Bible, or from pagan idolatry! We are shocked to learn the truth -- some, unfortunately, take offense at the plain truth! But God commands His faithful ministers, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression!" Shocking as these facts are, they are the plain facts of history and the Bible! The real origin of Christmas goes back to ancient Babylon. It is bound up in the organized apostasy which has gripped a deceived world these many centuries! In Egypt, it was always believed that the son of Isis (Egyptian name for "Queen of Heaven" ) was born December 25th. Paganism celebrated this famous birthday over most of the known world for centuries before the birth of Christ. December 25th is not the birthday of Jesus the true Christ! The apostles and early true Church never celebrated Christ's birthday at any time. There is no command or instruction to celebrate it in the Bible -- rather, the celebrating of birthdays is a pagan, not a Christian custom, believe it or not!

Let us also look at some of the other traditions of “Christmas” that are also proven to be more pagan observances. Mistletoe was hung, and was used to symbolize the rebirth of the new sun. Holly berry were sacred also to the sun god. But what is used at this time of year above and beyond all the mistletoe and holly is the “Christmas Tree”. We already saw where it came from but let’s look at what Scripture says about it. Jeremiah 10:2-6: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen .... For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." There is a perfect description of the Christmas tree, termed by YHVH as "the way of the heathen -- the customs of the people." We are commanded not to learn that way or follow it! It is also viewed in this passage as idolatry. The fifth verse shows that these trees cannot speak -- cannot walk -- must be carried. "Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good." They are not gods to be feared. Some people misread this to make it say there is no harm in having a Christmas tree, but that is not what it says. Yet many still see no problem is bringing in a tree and decorating it.

Another one of the misconceived pagan practices of giving gifts should be very clear to our people as something not to do yet many believe it is something the Bible condones. Again another misconception. Some cite Matthew 2 where it says that the wise men brought gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh as proof that we are to give gifts to one another. Notice that it says that gifts were given to The King of Kings. Now why did they present gifts to Him? Because it was His birthday? Not at all, because they came several days or weeks after the date of His birth! Was it to set an example for us, today, to trade gifts back and forth among ourselves? No, notice carefully! They did not exchange gifts among themselves, but "they presented unto HIM gifts." They gave their gifts to Christ, not to their friends, relatives, or one another! Why? Let me quote from the Adam Clarke Commentary, volume 5, page 46: "Verse 11. (They presented unto him gifts.) The people of the east never approach the presence of kings and great personages, without a present in their hands. The custom is often noticed in the Old Testament, and still prevails in the east, and in some of the newly discovered South Sea Islands." There it is! They were not instituting a new Christian custom of exchanging gifts with friends to honor Christ's birthday. They were following an old and ancient eastern custom of presenting gifts to a king when they came into his presence.

So is celebrating “Christmas” really honoring Christ? What harm can come from putting up a tree and decorating it? Some give the excuse that they only observe “Christmas” in honoring Christ, but what does YHVH say of it?

"Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them ... that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods" (Deut. 12:30-31). YHVH says plainly in His Instruction Book to us, that He will not accept that kind of worship, even though intended in His honor. To Him, He says, it is offering what is abominable to Him, and therefore it honors, not Him, but false pagan gods. YHVH says we must not worship Him according to the "dictates of our own conscience" -- a term we often hear. But Jesus said plainly, "God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). And what is truth? YHVH's Word -- the Holy Bible -- said Jesus, is truth (John 17:17); and the Bible says YHVH will not accept worship when people take a pagan custom or manner of worship and try to honor Christ with it. Again, Jesus said: "In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt. 15:9).

Christmas observance is a tradition of men, and the commandments of YHVH, as quoted, forbid it. Jesus said, further, "full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." That is precisely what the millions are doing today. They ignore the commandment of YHVH. He commands, regarding taking the customs of the pagans and using them to honor or worship YHVH: "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God." Still, most people today take that command of YHVH lightly, or as having no validity whatsoever, and follow the tradition of men in observing Christmas. Make no mistake! YHVH will allow you to defy and disobey Him. He will allow you to follow the crowd and the traditions of men. He will allow you to sin. But He also says there is a day of reckoning coming. As you sow, so shall you reap! Jesus was the living Word of YHVH in the flesh, and the Bible is the written Word of YHVH. And we shall be judged, for eternity, by these words! They should not be taken lightly or ignored. We're in Babylon, and many haven't known it .Christmas has become a commercial season. It's sponsored, kept alive, by the heaviest retail advertising campaigns of the year. You see a masqueraded "Santa Claus" in many stores. Ads keep us deluded and deceived about the "beautiful Christmas spirit." The newspapers, who sell the ads, print flowery editorials exalting and eulogizing the pagan season, and its "spirit." (And who is it that runs these newspapers and advertising companies?) A gullible people has become so inoculated, many take offense when told the truth. But the "Christmas spirit" is created each year, not to honor Christ, but to sell merchandise! Like all Satan's delusions, it appears as an "angel of light," is made to appear good. Billions of dollars are spent in this merchandising spree every year, while the cause of Christ must suffer! It's part of the economic system of Babylon! It is quite apparent that if you contribute to the holiday shopping season you are inevitably lining the pockets of the anti-christ who created and continue this Babylonian system.

We have professed to be Christian nations, but we're in Babylon, as Bible prophecy foretold, “Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" -- now soon to fall -- is the warning of Revelation 18:4. What more proof do you need to see that Christmas is not a celebration we christians should be celebrating? No matter what reason you use to justify partaking in it YHVH will show you otherwise!

“Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:” Deuteronomy 12:2
“I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.” Amos 5:21
“Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.” Deuteronomy 7:26
“Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.” Exodus 23:24

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Isaiah 42:17

They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed. Isaiah 44:9

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. Deuteronomy 4:25-27

Because of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke me to anger, in that they went to burn incense, and to serve other gods, whom they knew not, neither they, ye, nor your fathers. Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods. Wherefore my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day. Jeremiah 44:3-6

Baptist preacher Charles H. Spurgeon opened a sermon on 24 December 1871 with the following words:
“We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority.”


Santa(Satan)Claus
As a Christian you should never lie to your children, and especially about Santa Claus. Santa is made out to be a god. He knows all, sees all and rewards all, and he sits on a throne that you bring your children to. That is a respect due only to God Almighty. In scripture Satan wants to be worshipped and be like the Most High.(Isa 14:14) Santa fills that position very well. And there are scriptures to back that up. Santa is a counterfeit of Jesus Christ

Kris Kringle means Christ Child.
Has white hair--Rev 1:14 Daniel 7:9
Comes from the North--EZ 1:4 EX 26:35 Ps 48:2
Ominiscient-knows all--Rev 19:6
Ominpresent-found in every mall--Psa 139:2-10 Eph 4:6
Calls children to his knee--Matt 19:14 Luke 18:16
Makes list of judgements--Rev 20:12 14:7 21:27 2Cor 5:10
Checks list twice--Dan 8:14 Matt 10:26 1Cor 5:10
Gifts given on basis of a list--Matt 25:21 Rev 21:27 22:14
Confess wrongs to--1John 2:1 1 Tim 2:5
Has a twinkle in his eye--Rev 1:14 2:18

--------------------
truthseeker

Posts: 28 | From: usa | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Message Board | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

Christian Chat Network

New Message Boards - Click Here