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Topic: Heresy Hunters - No! Heretic Hunters - No! Heresy Expositors? You Betcha - Jesus was!
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
I know this is a old one but I believe timely considering the last 3 days of sillyness.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
We I think differ in that I see that God is the same even when the culture changes. I do see your point and I am not sure what the gathering of the one church would look like, but it is my belief that the picture of the OT Nation of Israel as the Kingdom of God living in the world is a picture of the Kingdom of Heaven that is the church living in every city. In the Apostolic church, we see thousands added to the church in a day and I do not know how they accomodated them in each others houses, but they were in ONE accord under the same elders, the same Bishop, the same Apostles, the Same HEAD that is Christ and they a Kingdom living in a city of strangers. I think that the denominations that have resulted in the building of 139 churches in a city is a problem and I mean 139 churches and not church buildings.
Still I acknowledge that mine is an opinion. I have not always had this opinion... it is a continually growing understanding that encompasses for me at this point many many issues. And is rather difficult to have opinions that are in total opposition to everything around you that is the "norm or business as usual" Sometimes I dont even know how to express it all, but I see this as very much part of the reality that we do not live in the power of the apostolic church nor do we live in the freedom that they lived in though they lived under huge political opprression.
What can I say? Opinions.... every body has one.
Shalom, my brother. May you walk in it always! God bless you and your house!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
helpforhomeschoolers writes quote:
The Apostles established the church in each city where they journeyed.
Yes, but you have to remember that in the 1st century A.D. the population of the earth was perhaps 250 million, with most all the towns and villages being small, and so the apostle established a church in the town or village, and the church in that case didn't even meet in a church.
Now with the population of the earth at 6 billion, we either have house churches or we have buildings in which Christians can meet--if it takes 139 church buildings to house the one church of God, then so be it.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
It is an opinion based on the example that I see in the scripture. The Apostles established the church in each city where they journeyed.
Paul writes to the church at Corinth, the church at Ephesus; the church at Rome; etc...
Phebe was a servant of the church at Cenchrea
The Gentile churches collected for the poor in the church at Jerusalem.
Jesus spoke to the church in Smyrna, the church of Ephesus, the church in Thyatra, the church in Philadelphia, the church in Pergamos, the church of the Laodicea, and the church in Sardis.
He did not speak to the churches in these places - but to the church in these places.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
sister helpforhomeschoolers writes quote:
God did not intend there to be 139 churches in a city.
How about 138 churches in a city? Did God tell you that He did not intend for there to be 139 churches or is that your opinion, sister help4HS?
BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Amen, sister yahsway, you write quote:
Watchmen are sounding the alarm in these last days. Some will hear the alarm, others will not. The alarm is not "Judgement" but is a "warning".
So is everyone a watchman, or are only certain Christians assigned the task of "being a watchman on the wall". I mean, the whole city does not need to be on the wall, right?
And also other Chrisitans who participate on this BBS Free Internet Bible College are performing tasks of watchman, guarding the truth in their respective areas of expertise.
I can see having a group of Christian Reporters who report on the body of Christ what is being said in the body of Christ and to the world by the body of Christ.
I can see such reports being useful; some of the things being said about Joyce Myers and Benny Hinn were pretty amazing (but possibly also understandle, could I do better if it was me???), and I'm the wiser for having learned how Joyce Myers and Benny Hinn are responding.
God bless all us and give us grace in the time of need. BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
And then again, sometimes the Lord show's us (me) Where HE wanted our (my) post to go... God is Good! All the Time! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
AWSOME Thread Sis! Thank you for all that Hard Work putting this together!!!! AMEN!
(Isn't it amazing how the Lord has a way of keeping some of us (me) silent when we (I) think we (I) should post something so that HE can use whom HE will's to post what HE wants posted! LOL! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) PRAISE GOD!!!)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
One more thing, because I think that Yahsway made this point and it is an important one. I believe that these are the last days, and I do believe that judgment is comeing and I do believe that we are seeing the falling away... but I also believe that we are seeing and have been seeing for some number of years, God's calling HIS people out of spiritual Babylon, I believe that there are today those who have been given a special annointing, and a special and specific calling, and specific gifts of discernment and prophesy to be John the Baptists and Elijahs crying in the wilderness - prepare ye the way of the Lord - repent and return to God.
I think that we have very unique situations today that the likes of have never been seen because of TV and radio and technologies. We see people that go to school or do not go to school that take up national, regional and even global ministries, with out being ordained or sent out by a local body and thus without spiritual covering and are thus subject in huge ways to the deceptions of the enemy and the exploitation of their flesh and they preach to people who are themselves not under any spiritual covering of local church body, or who listen in conflict with the authority and the interests of the local church body. And so where Paul would go to say the Corinthians and speak against one who had come to them teaching Gnosticism in that local body..... to day we have people who teach to the world Gnosticism and there is no one in authority to rebuke them personally because they are their own authority. This is not God's way and this is not God's design for the church.
The church was designed that the foundation be laid by an apostle and that those who were discipled by that apostle and ordained and apointed to carry on after him..... the establishment of elders and a bishop to serve the LOCAL body under the authority of Christ.
God did not intend there to be 139 churches in a city. Neither did God intend people to be lone ranger christians. Neither did God intend people to raise themselves up and send them selves out without having been sent and ordained and covered by a local body, but under their own authority, to preach and teach to people who were either not under authority at all or under the authority of other bodies that had not the same foundation.
Do you know what I mean?
When Paul established churches he left them with the foundation in place and with the elders in place and a system of accountibility in place.
When trouble came it came from those who came from outside the dicipleship of the apostles and it came trying to build on the fundation of the apostles.
Paul said, I plant and another waters, but the one that watered was first planted by the one that plants.
This is not the case today. And it is to our detriment. TV preachers and teachers hold themselves accountible to no one but themselves and they lay foundation on top of the foundation of others without having been disciples of the original foundation layer. They weaken the structure and the foundation of the local body and they take funds out of its treasury that God intended to be used to meet the needs of the local body.
God did not intend for the church at Ephesus to be taught by a self appointed teacher from Alexandria sent out by no one and who was not under the authority of the elders at Ephesus. Nor did God intend that the provision given by God to the church at Ephesus for meeting the needs of the whole body of believers at Ephesus be fleeced to provide for the grandious lifesyle of the self appointed teacher from Alexandria.
THis is not the way of the church as established by the Apostles. If anything, this is the way of the Roman Church with its Popes and it has just been multiplied so that there are 100 popes and not just one.
So because of this unique situation, I believe that there are those that are given discernment and commanded to speak against these things.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
BA: I would say that you probably have never used the word "heresy hunter" with a mean connotation, because mean is in the heart.... a spiritual thing and I do not know you possess mean.
I just think that heresy hunter is a misnomer.
I was thinking on those who get carried away with heresy exposition and I found my self wanting to say that these are heresy hunters, but I believe in my spirit I came to realize that the word heresy hunter is a misnomer.
There are some whom I believe were given discernment to see heresies, but the flesh got the best of them and they began to believe that it was their JOB so to speak to be heard and to MAKE people to hear and some have committed terrible sins themselves trying to do the work of the Holy Spirit.
We see this in the doctored photos and altered voice tracks and all manner of things that are found on the web at what some would call discernment ministries.
I liken these to the prophet that went to speak to Jeroboam and the Northern Kingdom and then after he had spoken left as God had said, but went back when the old prophet came after him and bid him to come back.
This is a great danger to all of us I think and that being to begin to think more of ourselves than we ought. We need to worry about our own walk and our own obedience to speak the things God gives us to say and then to shut up because the hearing must come from God and does come and will come from God in HIS season and not ours.
Sometimes God says speak and at the very same time he is hardening the heart of the person being spoken to that they do not listen.
Moses' job was not to get Pharaoh to listen; Moses' job was to speak. Pharaoh heard not one moment before God ordained that he would hear. God was manifesting the evil in Pharaoh's heart that it come to fullness that in the right time when it had come to fullness God would judge him.
Moses did not know this; Moses did not need to know this; Moses only needed to do what God had called him to do and leave the rest up to God.
Anyway, I think that even these who have done terrible things to make their point as if God needed their help to make HIS point are not heresy hunters - they are heresy expositors whose flesh has taken over and caused them to think that they can control who hears.
No, I do not think that there is a part time or full time job in the body as a heresy hunter.
I think a couple of things......
1. I think that if we were living in the Kingdom in the covenant as we ought and were the picture of the Apostolic church that we are supposed to be, we would be a magnificent glorious body of heresy expositors who by their very being and lving would expose the heresy in the world to such a degree that the sheep that are lost in the world would be knocking the proverbial door down to get into the kingdom. And the world that is our enemy would be convicted of their heresy as the conditions in the world would be so stark in comparison to the conditions in the Kingdom. In the 1st century church people wanted to get into the kingdom even though Christians were being severely persecuted and martyred. Today we hear than people just wont come if you dont appeal to the desires of thier flesh. I believe that the reason that people do not come today is because the church looks so much like the world, they see no reason to come and they see that the church would only cramp their style or put restrictions on them. So men feel they have to make church appealing in the world's view of appealing to get people to come.
Hello: People came by the thousands in a day even though it meant possible persecution and Martyrdom.
2. I think that as individuals we are all called to know the word, keep the word and the faith and contend for them both. I think we are all called to love one another with agape love enough to know that sin in the body is not an option and when one is hurt by sin we all are hurt and we must bear each others burdens and lift each other up and also we must reprove and rebuke each other. We are a body. I think that we all should have the attitude that the perversion of the word is an assault against God and against us and that should offend us and drive us to HOLY anger the way the merchants in the temple offened Jesus.
3. My personal experience is that God has given me from time to time things to say and has given me this place to say them. Sometimes what he has given me to say is a word of prayer or encouragement to another; sometimes it has been a understanding that he has given me to share; other times it has been a testimony; sometimes it has been out and out rebuke; some times it has been about heresy and the one who teaches it. I desire with all my heart to do what he calls me to do and to not hestiate or question him. I do better at the former than the later.
So I guess that what I am saying is that we all... if we are indeed light and salt, we are all heresy expositors in one way or another through our lives as we walk and live in spirit; through our words those who are given to speak and to teach; through our very being light and salt - because light always illumenates the darkness and salt always preserves the word, innoculates the soil that weeds and tares dont grow, and promotes healing.
Further, we are all called to go and make disciples - disciples are students of Christ and thus we must always all of us:
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
If we do these things, we will be heresy expositors.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
Dear Helpforhomeschoolers,
WHAT A MESSAGE! I COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER MYSELF! BUT REMEMBER TO WALK ACCORDING TO ALL SCRIPTURE.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
were the Watchmen set upon the walls of Jerusalem heresy hunters when they sounded the alarm from the shofar to warn the people of approaching enemies or impending disaster?
What happened when the alarm was sounded? Did the people assemble to protect the body living within those walls or did the people just go about their business risking their very lives to the enemy approaching?
In the same way, Yahweh God has set Watchmen on the walls of His Church. If something is being taught that is false or detremental to the corporate body then the Alarm should sound.
Some will HEAR the Alarm and others will not. But to hear the alarm does not mean to turn and run from the enemy, but to stand up and fight for the truth. If we run from the Alarm, we risk letting the enemy break in, and mix his lies with the Truth. Satan is the Father of lies, but he is crafty in that he mixes his lies with the Truth of God's word. Satan has been doing this since he beguiled Eve in the garden.
Watchmen are sounding the alarm in these last days. Some will hear the alarm, others will not. The alarm is not "Judgement" but is a "warning".
May we all have ears to Hear and act accordingly. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Dear sis helpforhomeschoolers, you write quote:
The name most commonly called is “Heresy Hunter” This name or label has been used with very mean and negative connotations toward those whom it was applied.
I have used the title "heresy hunter" not as a bad word but as a possible reality. Maybe God does send out His "heresy hunters" as an assignment, to report to the church what is happening in the church." So it does not have to have a "negative connotation" or be "very mean", if I may, sister.
By the way, I consider you a part-time "heresy hunter" and I want to acknowledge to you, helpforhomeschoolers, that you and the Spirit at times write some amazing things.
help4, Do you think there is such an assignment as "heresy hunter" in the assignments of the LORD God of Israel?
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all on this BBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the of Yahshua-Jesus who was born in Bethlehem, as predicted by Micah 5:2. (am I fishing?)
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Amen and Amen!!!!!!
A powerful and moving message Sis. Well posted and well done.
Eph. 6:
10: Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11: Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13: Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
That required a lot of work Helpforhomeschoolers. Amen to this posting, I likes this right here. Thanks for sharing it with us and for the time you put into studying it. I appreciate this post to the highest degree. Glory to God for working in Linda!
![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
I’m not a heresy hunter, I’m a heresy expositor! ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
There has been a battle on this board for almost 8 months now that has led a few people to call others on the board names. The name most commonly called is “Heresy Hunter” This name or label has been used with very mean and negative connotations toward those whom it was applied. The charge against these labeled ones has been that they sought to hunt and kill those who would preach and teach heresy. I submit that this would be a “Heretic Hunter” and not a “Heresy Hunter”
I want to speak about heresy and about hunting.
First I would like to give you the definition of the word heresy in the Bible.
The word in the Bible that is translated “heresy” or “heresies” is also translated “sect” and used to speak of the Sadducees, Pharisees, and even the Nazarenes. It is a word that means divisions. Divisions are caused by doctrines that are in opposition with or contrary to the word of God. We call these “heresies”.
Now the thing about heresies is that they do require hunting. Heresies are heard in our ears anytime our ears hear something that is in opposition to or contrary to what we know to be the truth.
So what is truth?
Truth is a concept in philosophy.
For thousands of years men have contemplated the question: “what is truth?” Plato desired to distinguish what constituted true belief and false belief.
But the disciple of Christ does not need to contemplate the question: “What is truth?” The Bible tells us what truth is:
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Further, we know that Christ is the word of God manifest in the flesh and that it is Christ that the Spirit of God bears witness of and that all of the scripture speaks of Christ thus all scripture is truth and good for the forming of doctrine.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Doctrine is teaching or insight. What we teach or speak should not disagree with scripture. When it does it is false doctrine or false insight or false teaching... thus it causes division and is heresy and the one who speaks it a heratic.
quote:
141 airetikov hairetikos hahee-ret-ee-kos’
from the same as 140; TDNT-1:184,27; adj
AV-that is a heretic 1; 1
1) fitted or able to take or choose a thing
2) schismatic, factious, a follower of a false doctrine
3) heretic
The Bible says this of a heretic:
Titus 3:10 - 11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
So we see that heresies are heard not hunted. Heretics are not to be hunted either, but when they are known they are to be admonished and rejected.
Heretics and heresies lead to apostasy. Apostasy is the falling away from the truth, faith, sound doctrine and ultimately God.
When an apostate falls away from God they fall into sin.
The book of Judges is an interesting book because it shows how GOD deals with his people when they fall into apostasy. The Bible of this time, that every man did as was right in his own eyes.
Joshua had been to the Israelites both a military commander and a spiritual leader.
He kept the people focused on God. But after Joshua died, the next generation did not know God and did not follow in his ways. Not long after his death Israel was worshiping the gods of their Canaanite neighbors and walking in their sinful ways. The Canaanite religion was one of indulgence in the sexual desires of the flesh and idolatry.
The three hundred year long period of the judges saw 7 cycles of God’s people falling into apostasy, being turned over to their oppressors in judgment, their crying out to God in repentance, and God raising up a judge to deliver them, living under God’s authority as long as the judge lived and then returning to apostasy once the judge died.
This was a time of war for the people of Israel. They were attacked in their own land by the Mesopotamians, the Moabite and Ammonite descendants of Lot, the Amalekites who were descendants of Esau, the Philistine descendants of Ham, the Midianites who were descendants of Abraham and Keturah, and the Canaanites who were descendants of Canaan the son of Ham.
In the second Chapter of the book of Judges we see that God intentionally left these enemy peoples in the land to test Israel to see who would be faithful and follow God.
Judges 2: 20.............................Because that this people hath transgressed my covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto my voice;
21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:
22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.
The book of Judges is an interesting book because in it we can see the church. This was a time when God was king of the kingdom.
The Israelites were the Kingdom of God living in the earth in the midst of their enemies and they were living under a heavenly King, who was Jehovah God, the Father.
We the church are the Kingdom of God living in the midst of our enemies under the rule and in covenant with a heavenly king, who is Christ.
The enemies that surrounded and attacked and spoiled Israel represent sin. Each of them are the descendants of sin. Each of them had their own idols or gods, and their own practices of worship that were abomination to God. From them the Israelites learned their heresies and wicked ways and began to sin and to worship their idols and practice their abominations.
Today we live in the midst of the children of sin; they have their own idols and their own ways of worshiping them and their own practices which are abomination to God.
When we are conformed to the world and learn their ways, we begin to sin, and worship their idols and practice their abominations.
God left the Israelites in the midst of their enemies because through the enemy God tested and proved the Israelites.
God leaves us in the midst of our enemies because through the enemy God does test and prove the Church.
The judges over Israel during this period are not like the judges in our western way of thinking.
They were not judges in the sense of our legal system. They were leaders of the people; some volunteered, some were called by the people, some were specifically appointed by God via angels, but they lead the people, into battle against the enemy, and in the ways of God.
They were to lead as Christ did lead.... through service.
During the time of the judges, there were good judges and there were not so good judges. Some were motivated by love of God and humility others by pride or power, or political position, or pursuit of wealth.
Othniel was a good judge and had a strong spirtitual heritage being the descendant of Caleb and he led the people back to God and they had peace 40 years. But as soon as he died they slipped back into apostasy and oppression from Moab for 18 years.
Then the handicapped left handed Ehud God raised to deliver them from the Moabites and lead them back to God and they lived in peace 80 years and the cycle continued.
Gideon destroyed their idols, but Abimelich was out for his own good and his own power.
Samson was a great deliverer, but was ruled by his flesh too often... and so on and so on.
This is true of the church as well.
The church is to judge itself, just as the judges judged Israel.
For some in the church, as with some in the Kingdom at the time of the judges, some are led to lead out of love for God and desire to serve his people, some are called by divine appointment, and some by personal desires for power, wealth, political position and pride.
None the less, the church is to judge itself, just as the judges judged Israel
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
The church is teach the ways of God to the church....Jesus called this making disciples. A disciple is a student or learner.
Paul says a servant of the Lord should be apt to teach.
2 Timothy 2:24-25 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
When the ways of God are not taught, the people fall into apostasy. When the ways of God are taught by those whose motives for service and leadership are more fleshly or worldly than spiritual and Godly, what is often taught is heresy.
Further we see that God has purpose in the allowing of heresies in the church:
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Just as living amongst the world is ordained by God that he may prove Israel, living with heresy in the church is permitted by God that he might approve those who are Israel in the Spirit.
During the time of the judges, the whole Kingdom fell into Apostasy and suffered God’s judgment in the form of years of oppression by the enemy whose gods they had embraced and whose ways and heresies and abominations they did practice..... and each time only one judge was found to bring them out of oppression and into peace.
One person out of thousands.
Further out of 14 judges that judged Israel, only Gideon, Barak, Samson, and of Jephthae are noted in Hebrews for their faith.
Not only does the scripture tell us that heresies must come, but it also tells us that apostasy must come:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
This too is God’s will.... not that we walk in Apostasy or condone apostasy or accept apostasy as anything but apostasy! GOD FORBID!!!!
But even so, apostasy must come.
Why?
For the same reasons it had to come in the Old Testament. That sin might become exceedingly sinful, that the People of God might be judged by God, that they might repent and return to God.
God uses the oppressor to bring judgment against his people, then when the oppressor has become very very oppressive, God brings judgment on the oppressor, by raising up a remnant that remains true to HIM and HIS ways in spite of their oppression, who will serve the people and lead them back to God, and the cycle continues.
His ways are not our ways.... but such is the way of God.
Just as we can see this is the way of God, we need to see the way of God’s people.
Those who are God’s people will repent and return to HIM; those of the world will become exceedingly sinful, until God brings judgment on them.
God desires us.... the church to judge ourselves that we not have to be judged.
Now this thread was about “heresy” and those who see it, hear it, speak against it and mark those who teach it.
There have always been those amongst the people that see and hear heresy and know it to be heresy and are led by God to speak of it as such and to mark those who teach it.
These ones have always been and will always be in the minority.
Gideon destroyed the idols from amongst the people. Idol worship, and sin were the heresy in Gideon’s day.
Idol worship was big business. So much so that the worshipers of Baal-Berith hired temple prostitutes to entice worship and brings money into the land. This money was then used to fund community projects.
Using religious practices to make money has always been forbidden to God’s people. With GOD all things related to the serving of GOD were to come from right hearts and not from the minds of men calculating business opportunities and trade deals and land ownerships.
During the time of the judges, wars were fought between neighboring peoples to prove that one god was greater than the other god and to bring spoils (wealth – material and in human labor) into the land of the successful one in battle who was thought to be successful because his god was more powerful.
In the Kingdom of God the Mighty power of God is made known by the blessings enjoyed by those who are living with right hearts before God in covenant with God who is their provider, and their peace and their Joy and all things needed.
Today’s heresies are not really different than they were in Gideon’s day. The idols have different names and are worshiped by different people in different ways, but they are the same idols in different packaging and they are inviting for the same reasons to the people of God.
Dagon was a god of the harvest – for an agricultural society this was the god of prosperity the Phoenicians and the Philistines saw him as half man half fish. To the Ammonites he was Moloch, the god or fire –or sun; to the Canaanites – Baal, the God of fertility rain lightning and thunder; to the Moabites – Molech – the god of rain and fertility. Baal, Molech, and Moloch, were bulls with human arms and hands.
For all these people fertility, sun and rain, meant prosperity, wealth, land, good harvests. All of them appealed to the lusts of man’s flesh and all of them were appeased by human child sacrifice.
Today, our culture is not agricultural. Prosperity for us is not measured in how plentiful the harvest or how many in our tribe or how much land we have to farm; but the gods of this world have not changed only changed form. The heresy is the same heresy.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has never been the god of prosperity in any of his forms. T
he God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the GOD of peace, and of hope, and of all grace. He is the God of spirits, and of hosts, and of gods, and of heaven, and of living who have died. He is the GOD of righteousness.
He desires that men prosper and be in health as their soul does prosper and thus he demands that we seek HIS Kingdom first and HIS righteousness, and when we do we will live in prosperity.
In the days of the judges, the gods of prosperity called God’s people to them and the people came. The desires of their flesh led them.
Worshiping the gods of prosperity is easy, and the flesh does like it. The only difference is that the people of Israel knew that these gods were not the GOD of their fathers, they just did not care.
Today, the gods of prosperity call God’s people and God’s people do come; and just like the gods of the heathen in the days of the judges these men who have made the things that are not gods to be gods believe that their gods are THE god and in their error and their deception, they have made themselves to be gods.. But there is a problem in Israel....many of the people who live as GOD’s Kingdom on earth believe them too.
The heresy has changed faces, but it is the same heresy; it has the same author.
Throughout history there has always been a minority that have seen the heresy.
Noah saw the heresy and Noah walked with God. We know that Noah saw the heresy because Noah was a preacher of righteousness and Noah’s obedience to build the ark brought condemnation to the heretics:
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah was a heresy expositor. What was the heresy of the day? That man could live his own way ; that every man could do whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
We often think of Lot as being so much less of a man of God than his brother Abraham, but in 2 Peter, we learn that Lot was a just man. The angels of God spoke to Lot and told him what God was doing. Lot became a heresy expositor when he went to warn the rest of Abraham’s people that were living with him in Sodom. What was the heresy of the day? The heresy of the day was that every man could do what was right in his own eyes.
Genesis 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
Moses was a heresy expositor when he stood before Pharaoh and all of Egypt and through his obedience manifest the truth – that Pharaoh was not God and the God of Abraham and of the Hebrew people was GOD. And what was the heresy of the day? The heresy of the day was that Pharaoh could do what was right in his own eyes:
Exodus 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.
Throughout their wilderness journey when the people lived as they should and God drove out their enemies before them, the whole nation of Israel were heresy expositors that spoke to the world in the land which they passed through saying that GOD of Abraham is God and you cannot do everyone that which is right in his own eyes:
Deuteronomy 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
We already spoke of the heresy of the day during the time of the judges and how Gideon was a heresy expositor. The heresy of the day was the same; every man could do what was right in his own eyes.
During the time of the Kings, Saul was anointed to be king over Israel, but Saul fell into Apostasy. Saul disobeyed God and tried to do what was right in his own eyes. God sent Samuel to be the heresy expositor:
1 Samuel 13:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
After Solomon had died and the Kingdom was divided, Jeroboam had the opportunity to lead the 10 tribes in the ways of God, but Jeroboam sought power and personal gain and desired to keep the people under his control and not let them go to Jerusalem to worship.
So Jeroboam set up his own altars to Baal. The heresy of the day? That man could do what was right in his own eyes. The heresy expositor? The prophet that came out of Judah.
Through 19 dynasties, the Northern Kingdom serve the calf and God sent heresy expositors to speak against them. Elijah spoke against Ahab and Jezebel. Judah too did worship the calf and other idols under the majority of their kings. Every one of the Old Testament prophets were heresy expositors that cried out for the people of God to return to the ways of God.
By the time that Christ came, the people of God that remained were divided into many sects, each with their own set of heresies.
Jesus was a heresy expositor.
He exposed the heresy of the Sadducees who claimed there was no resurrection; he exposed the many many heresies of the rabbi and the Mishnah; he exposed the heresies of the Pharisees.
Paul was a heresy expositor speaking against Gnosticism -2 Cor 11:4, against Judaizers and Gnosticism-Gal 1:6-9;2:4-6, against Asceticism - Col 2:21-23, and against Antinomianism - 2 Pet 2:1-22.
John was a heresy expositor speaking against Gnosticism and Docetism - 1 John 4:1-5 & 2 John 1:7-11
Jude spoke against Gnosticism and Antinomianism - Jude 1:4-19
Jesus again in his letter to the 7 churches is a heresy expositor – naming the doctrines of Baal and Jezebel and the Nicolaitans. in Revelation.
After the Apostles had passed, Irenaeus was a heresy expositor and in the preface to his 3rd volume of Against Heresies said:
quote:
THOU hast indeed enjoined upon me, my very dear friend, that I should bring to light the Valentinian doctrines, concealed, as their votaries imagine; that I should exhibit their diversity, and compose a treatise in refutation of them. therefore have undertaken—showing that they spring from Simon, the father of all heretics--to exhibit both their doctrines and successions, and to set forth arguments against them all.
Wherefore, since the conviction of these men and their exposure is in many points but one work, I have sent unto thee [certain] books, of which the first comprises the opinions of all these men, and exhibits their customs, and the character of their behaviour.
In the second, again, their perverse teachings are cast down and overthrown, and, such as they really are, laid bare and open to view.
But in this, the third book I shall adduce proofs from the Scriptures, so that I may come behind in nothing of what thou hast enjoined; yea, that over and above what thou didst reckon upon, thou mayest receive from me the means of combating and vanquishing those who, in whatever manner, are propagating falsehood.
For the love of God, being rich and ungrudging, confers upon the suppliant more than he can ask from it. Call to mind then, the things which I have stated in the two preceding books, and, taking these in connection with them, thou shalt have from me a very copious refutation of all the heretics; and faithfully and strenuously shalt thou resist them in defence of the only true and life-giving faith, which the Church has received from the apostles and imparted to her sons.
For the Lord of all gave to His apostles the power of the Gospel, through whom also we have known the truth, that is, the doctrine of the Son of God; to whom also did the Lord declare: "He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth Me, and Him that sent Me."(1)
- Tertullian, spoke against heresies and against heretics.
- The Apostles Creed came out of the debates over heresy!!!!!
- Augustine, spoke against the heresy of Pelagianism.
- The council of Nicea was held over the heresy of Arianism.
- The Council at Ephesus was brought over the heresy of Nestorianism
Heresy Expositors !!!!
Martin Luther was a heresy expositor! His 95 Thesis named the POPE as a heretic.
I could go on, but I think that the point is made that throughout the History of God’s people, from Noah to the reformation there has been heresy- there has been what was right in the eyes of God and what was right in the eyes of men and there has always been a remnant that has been led to be heresy expositors.
For many years the people did not have the scriptures to tell us what was the word and the way of God. But thanks to men like William Tyndale who was in his own right a heresy expositor, to day we have the scriptures and they can be as known to the man who drives the plow as the priests and when the scripture is known and written in our hearts by the power of the Holy spirit the heresies do not need to be hunted nor do the men who teach them.
God’s very word is a lamp unto our feet that tells us which way we should go to walk in his ways and when we hear something contrary it is known in our hearts and if we love the Lord and we serve the Lord God Almighty then we will be heresy expositors. Because Christ was a heresy expositor!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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