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Topic: Deadly Wound?
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Ezekiel 13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by John Hale:
Angels are not like Hollywood depictions of ghosts. They can touch people (drug Lot and his family out of Sodom / Gomorrah). They ate food Abraham prepared for them. Yet so many egotistic individuals will not allow themselves to consider that angels and human females can produce offspring.
It's like the immature child who refuses to believe what their parents did to give birth to them.
I admit things of this nature can be unsettling. At least at first. ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
The irony of all of this is that it all comes from God. It is we or angels who misuse what God created to be good and loving and a means of perpetuating the species so we can be redeemed (by our ability to die).
Angels cannot die so their fall was in their eternal state and redemption is not possible.
You are 100% right!
We have seen so many paintings,etc of angels. I think it has put the wrong idea of how they might really look in our mind. (We weren't supposed to make images of things in Heaven)
Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers:for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Now if they looked like all the pictures we have seen of them then,how could we entertain them unawares?
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John Hale
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Angels are not like Hollywood depictions of ghosts. They can touch people (drug Lot and his family out of Sodom / Gomorrah). They ate food Abraham prepared for them. Yet so many egotistic individuals will not allow themselves to consider that angels and human females can produce offspring.
It's like the immature child who refuses to believe what their parents did to give birth to them.
I admit things of this nature can be unsettling. At least at first.
The irony of all of this is that it all comes from God. It is we or angels who misuse what God created to be good and loving and a means of perpetuating the species so we can be redeemed (by our ability to die).
Angels cannot die so their fall was in their eternal state and redemption is not possible.
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Betty Louise
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I also believe they were fallen angels. Satan has always sought to corrupt mankind. He seeks to hurt God through God's creation.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4?"
Genesis 6:1-4 refers to the sons of God and the daughters of men. There have been several suggestions as to who the sons of God were and why the children they had with daughters of men grew into a race of giants (that is what the word Nephilim seems to indicate).
The three primary views on the identity of the sons of God are 1) they were fallen angels, 2) they were powerful human rulers, or 3) they were godly descendants of Seth intermarrying with wicked descendants of Cain. Giving weight to the first theory is the fact that in the Old Testament the phrase “sons of God” always refers to angels (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). A potential problem with this is in Matthew 22:30, which indicates that angels do not marry. The Bible gives us no reason to believe that angels have a gender or are able to reproduce. The other two views do not present this problem.
The weakness of views 2) and 3) is that ordinary human males marrying ordinary human females does not account for why the offspring were “giants” or “heroes of old, men of renown.” Further, why would God decide to bring the flood on the earth (Genesis 6:5-7) when God had never forbade powerful human males or descendants of Seth to marry ordinary human females or descendants of Cain? The oncoming judgment of Genesis 6:5-7 is linked to what took place in Genesis 6:1-4. Only the obscene, perverse marriage of fallen angels with human females would seem to justify such a harsh judgment.
As previously noted, the weakness of the first view is that Matthew 22:30 declares, “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” However, the text does not say “angels are not able to marry.” Rather, it indicates only that angels do not marry. Second, Matthew 22:30 is referring to the “angels in heaven.” It is not referring to fallen angels, who do not care about God’s created order and actively seek ways to disrupt God’s plan. The fact that God’s holy angels do not marry or engage in sexual relations does not mean the same is true of Satan and his demons.
View 1) is the most likely position. Yes, it is an interesting “contradiction” to say that angels are sexless and then to say that the “sons of God” were fallen angels who procreated with human females. However, while angels are spiritual beings (Hebrews 1:14), they can appear in human, physical form (Mark 16:5). The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to have sex with the two angels who were with Lot (Genesis 19:1-5). It is plausible that angels are capable of taking on human form, even to the point of replicating human sexuality and possibly even reproduction. Why do the fallen angels not do this more often? It seems that God imprisoned the fallen angels who committed this evil sin, so that the other fallen angels would not do the same (as described in Jude 6). Earlier Hebrew interpreters and apocryphal and pseudopigraphal writings are unanimous in holding to the view that fallen angels are the “sons of God” mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4. This by no means closes the debate. However, the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.
http://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-God.html
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Carol Swenson
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If I understand you, you are saying that Satan is bound to Judas. But Satan bothered Paul in 1 Thessalonians 2:18. I don't think that Satan or demons are bound to people - they just don't want to leave while the person is alive. They want to continue causing trouble and evil if they can.
But we can resist.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. (1 Peter 5:8-9)
"Finally my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly paces. Therefore, take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." (Ephesians 6:10-13)
quote:
The scriptures that led me to conclude a fallen angel who possesses a human or animal is bound to that host in life and in their death the demons go to the abyss...
Jude 6 (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
This cannot mean simply angels that fell. Otherwise who were the demons who possessed the people Jesus confronted if they were all already in the abyss?
So who are these? And what is this "not keeping their first estate" which distinguishes them from the fallen angels allowed to roam the earth?
About the angels kept in bonds...
Jude 1:5 - 7 (NASB)
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe. And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
...I think these are the fallen angels who fathered the Nephilim that caused God to destroy all flesh in the flood, except those on the ark.
Genesis 6:4-5 (NASB)
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Sons of God defined as angels in the OT:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, Satan also came among them (Job 1:6).
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came among them to present himself before the Lord (Job 2:1).
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:7, cf. Psalm 89:6; Daniel 3:25).
Angels can seem to be human:
Angels can eat
He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree. (Genesis 18:8)
Angels can be attractive
and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them". (Genesis 19:5)
Angels can physically touch people
But he hesitated. So the men seized his hand and the hand of his wife and the hands of his two daughters, for the compassion of the LORD was upon him; and they brought him out, and put him outside the city. (Genesis 19:16)
Angels can seem to be human
"Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it" (Heb. 13:2).
Since these things are true about the Holy Angels, they could be true about the fallen angels as well.
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John Hale
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Why Judas?
There are two passages of scripture that appear to indicate that a fallen angel who possesses a human or animal has the ability to come and go as they please (Matthew 12:43-45 and Luke 11:24-26).
Does this apply to all? Does this apply to every possession? Or is this an analogy referring to the generation spoken of as an individual?
The reason I say this is because whenever demon spirits were driven from human hosts, it was not so much their stand against the Lord as it was their inability to escape. They could not simply flee. And their being exorcised was not a matter of simply flushing them out of the human host to set them free to return among the other spirits...
The legion of demons sought not to be sent to the abyss before the time (before the time of what? before the death of the human host? or before the time of judgment?) and asked that they be put into a herd of pigs...
Were they unable to go on their own? And was this asking Jesus to send them there rather than to the place where they would be imprisoned in chains of darkness until the day of judgment?
Interesting to note that the pigs had sense enough to kill themselves rather than live with the evil and rage of the demons within. This may be why Judas actually killed himself. If the devil was stuck inside Judas and he realized he'd been had by the fact that God intended the Christ to die for our sins... and in a go for broke moment he inhabited a human host to insure Jesus was sent to the cross... the torment and rage within would have driven the man Judas to commit suicide.
The scriptures that led me to conclude a fallen angel who possesses a human or animal is bound to that host in life and in their death the demons go to the abyss...
Jude 6 (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
This cannot mean simply angels that fell. Otherwise who were the demons who possessed the people Jesus confronted if they were all already in the abyss?
So who are these? And what is this "not keeping their first estate" which distinguishes them from the fallen angels allowed to roam the earth?
Luke 8:26-33 (KJV)
26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep {{abyss}}.
32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
Matthew 8:28-32 (KJV)
28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? {{NIV / NASB says before the appointed time and NASB footnotes the time of judgment}}
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
There are others... but the questions raised by these passages can only have one conclusion IMHO unless scripture proves otherwise, of course...
Fallen angels that possessed humans or animals were bound to the host in life and in death they went to the abyss under torment until judgment when the abyss (death and hades) would be thrown into the lake of fire.
That being the case, many who did must have been snookered into leaving their first estate. And if this is all biblical... then Satan really went for broke when he thought insuring Jesus was sent to the cross was worth possessing Judas to make sure it happened.
And if he would be released in human form as the antichrist is made out to be (the devil incarnate)... then this would add up that he return in the same human host he went to be in his own place in 2000 years ago.
And as I said, if he can scientifically prove to be Judas... this would lend his credibility to the unsaved people of every walk of life and even an "in" with the scriptures if he can prove to be one of the 12...
Again... only two verses say Satan actually entered into a host (both refer to Judas), only two verses use the words son of perdition one is clearly the antichrist the other is clearly Judas, and when he died it clearly says in scripture that he went to his own place. No one else is referred to in this manner in their death.
Scary stuff, I know. But biblical as far as I can tell.
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John Hale
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That would be a good point, if chapters 19 and 20 are linear.
It would also mean there are two Armageddon scenarios. The second one at the end of the millennium where for some inexplicable reason he releases the devil from a thousand year prison to deceive the nations he (Jesus) personally ruled over and gather them at one last lost cause war against God (vicariously at Jerusalem).
This scenario also would seem to have nothing at all to do with Jews... meaning they are there but the focus is as of expounding on an earlier scenario account which did center on the Jews and Jerusalem... giving the other side of the story and who is behind it.
That would make Revelation revert back in the storyline from time to time. Which it appears to do. Revelation 12 for example reverts back from Revelation 11's account of the end time to the time Jesus was born and was taken to heaven.
The linear account of Revelation is an arrow in the quiver of the Preterist, btw, pushing Revelation 11 back to the first century CE. Which I still point out Revelation 12 reverts back to a point earlier than (even if their claim were true).
They usually dodge the point and quickly change the subject to something else.
I do not want to get into any entanglements here. I am not one who takes the warnings of Revelation 22:18-19 as cavalierly as some do. Nor do I use it as an excuse not to study the entire Bible to understand this book of prophecy.
All I am saying here is that the book of Revelation has a Middle Eastern authorship (as does most of the Bible) in the flow of the storyline. Where a point is initially made and then gone back to for expounding commentary / revelation later in the text.
Revelation 12 and Revelation 11 for example.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by John Hale:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
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[QUOTE]bound to this man in the abyss (the place created for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41) to be released for a short time in the last days to win the world over to oppose the saints and then turn on the Jews once the saints are gone...
Satan is not bound until the return of Christ and the start of the Millennial Kingdom.
Revelation 20:1-3 NASB
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
So every reference to a thousand years refers to the Millennium?
The Bible teaches about "the millennium." The question is, is the millennium a literal 1,000 years long or as is common in the use of the Greek a thousand years is a reference to a very long period of time without literal specification of precise length. Inflationary language in our day has expanded this to a million years. "Bill Clinton cannot get reelected, not in a million years."
Further, there will be a period in this millennium when edenic conditions are restored to the earth so that people who die at 100 years old will be thought a mere youth (Isaiah 65:20) which is not for a literal thousand years...
Also how many times do you see Armageddon happening? Before a literal 1,000 years then Satan is bound then he comes back yet again and turns the world against God and the world again attacks Jerusalem?
Take care to notice when Revelation is telling the same event in a different way.
Christ has just returned and the beast and false prophet were just seized in Revelation 19. Next Satan is bound for a thousand years.
No need to confuse something so clearly stated.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by John Hale:
Question, Carol...
Is this a prophecy about a good thing or bad:
Isaiah 2 (KJV)
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
The prophet looked ahead to the time when God’s righteous kingdom would be established and the temple would become the center for the worldwide worship of the Lord. In Isaiah’s day, the Jews were adopting the false gods of the Gentiles; but the day would come when the Gentiles would abandon their idols and worship the true God of Israel. The nations would also lay down their weapons and stop warring. These promises must not be “spiritualized” and applied to the church, for they describe a literal kingdom of righteousness and peace. The Jewish temple will be rebuilt, and the Word of God will go forth from Jerusalem to govern the nations of the world.
In the light of the future glory of God’s temple, Isaiah appealed to the people to “walk in the light of the Lord” (v. 5). Christians today have a similar motivation as we await the return of Christ for His church (1 John 2:28-3:3).
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by John Hale:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[QUOTE] Zechariah 8:32 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
Oh?
Zechariah 8:22-23 (KJV)
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
Pray tell, Carol, when did this in bold happen?
quote:
Zechariah 8 is all about the Lord restoring and blessing His people after their exile. It cannot possibly refer to the AntiChrist.
God is not finished with His people Israel.
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Carol Swenson
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Right on Betty! When our Lord Jesus Christ returns, He will have a whole ARMY of saints with Him! We won't be reincarnations, but glorified, resurrected saints!
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. (John 11:25 - 26 NASB)
Jesus is the resurrection and the life.
Satan does not have the power over life and death that Jesus has.
But if Satan was given this power just this one time, he would not choose Judas. He would choose someone powerful, brilliant, charismatic, and cruel. A Hitler kind of person. Judas was just a petty thief, weak and foolish. He didn't know that Jesus was going to be condemned to death, and when he found out he tried to return the money. Satan would choose someone much worse than Judas.
quote:
And as to the once to die then the judgment... is that universal? I mean how many times did those raised from the dead die? How about Enoch or Elijah? How many times did they die?
And doctors bring people back to life all the time. And those raptured will never experience death. And John the Baptist had the spirit of Elijah. ("Oh, he has his father's eyes!") I know, I know.
Hebrews 9:27 obviously does not say a person cannot be brought back to life because we see this happen everyday. Jesus brought people back to life. And it obviously does not say that everyone MUST die because Enoch and Elijah did not and the raptured won't. So, what is it saying? That we are not reincarnated.
I think the two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah because they represent the Law and the Prophets that testify of Christ. And if they are, they won't be reincarnations - they will BE Moses and Elijah. The real deal.
"This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." (Luke 24:44)
Not everything written about Him has been fulfilled yet.
Speaking of deadly wounds, the two witnesses are murdered, and after three days they are resurrected and taken back to Heaven. ![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
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Betty Louise
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The two wittiness will most likely be men who lived in the past. Mostly likely Moses and Elijah. This said, this will not be re-incarnation. Re-incarnation is the belief that a person's spirit will come back again, as a different baby in a different womb and live again. Re-incarnation is not of Biblical. Can God bring a person back from Heaven and place them on earth? Yes.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
And if he is Judas Iscariot and able to scientifically prove he is him and is back from the dead (the deadly wound to this head of the beast that was healed seems to be what convinces the world in Revelation 13)
There are only two people in the Bible who are called the “Son of Perdition,” Judas and the Antichrist. But to believe that the AntiChrist will be Judas Iscariot, as many believe, would mean reincarnation. That isn’t Biblical.
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27)
Judas was only a type of the AntiChrist.
Reincarnation?
And of the two witnesses in Revelation 11? Moses / Elijah (previewed on the mount of transfiguration Matthew 17)... reincarnation?
Would they not have to be someone else to be a reincarnation?
I agree reincarnation is not biblical. But the topic here is about resurrection which is biblical.
And as to the once to die then the judgment... is that universal? I mean how many times did those raised from the dead die? How about Enoch or Elijah? How many times did they die?
Hebrews 9:27 is the law. But God can on occasion over rule the law can he not?
Granting your argument for the sake of discussion... who would you say the two witnesses will be? Just curious.
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John Hale
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What I have gleaned from the Bible on this topic was something I myself opposed for sometime. And anyone who opposes anything the Lord has his hand in knows like Jonah... running away is not the answer.
Think about how the Lord has us pray without ceasing never giving him rest until what we pray for is resolved like the widow and the unjust judge who she wore down with her coming... God uses this same tactic with his people when we get stubborn.
If this has never happened to you (referring to the general "you" meaning any who read this and no one specifically in mind here, honestly)... then maybe you'd better do a serious soul search / perspective check to determine in you are on the right path (the Lord's path)... because the Lord is the one who calls the shots in that relationship... much as we try to balk against this often in ways that surprise ourselves...
But God is dealing with the matter of good and evil (in the universe and the spirit realm) through humanity and specifically through Judaism.
IMHO and that's all it is... the portion of the millennium when Jesus reigns on earth and edenic conditions are restored is a dispensation of time when (after the resurrection) those who believed in Jesus will be perfected already and reign with him and the Jews who did not accept him will be given another opportunity to believe him under the most ideal conditions... because they bore the persecution of man and the devil since the beginning for being the people God chose to usher the truth (written and personified) into the world. I know all about Hebrews 9:27. And it may be what proves my personal opinion / theory wrong. But IF there is another Armageddon-like scenario at the end of the millennium... its the Gentiles versus the Jews again...
Anyway, that's just my two cents.
But with regard to the in-house dealings of God with sin and evil... I opposed it as I said until I realized it was biblical through much prayer and study and bowing to the Holy Spirit who was relentlessly prodding me about the matter.
At first I found I had bought into replacement theology more than I realized thinking God was done with the Jews and the Old Covenant was kaput so the future dealings "must" be with the Church...
It also was most unsettling to think that the Old Covenant which God used for good would be adulterated to be used for evil at the hand of the enemy. And that the false messiah would be Jewish (not a pope or some other religious leader).
But when you accept these things, only because they are biblical, then many things add up that previously did not or seemed to be open to interpretation when in fact they are not.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.
Um, Preterism is not on the table here. I have debated Ken Gentry in a limited way on the air in southern California KBRT Rich Agozino's Crosstalk show in the late 1990's. I was hung up on by the host who is a full preterist and an avid follower (IMHO worshiper) of Preterism, Gentry and Gary Demar... who I also had words with and was deemed by them to be an unteachable spirit and in Agozino's words in email not even a pimple on the buttocks of John the Baptist (in less apropriate language).
Still, let's focus on the topic here. We both are dispensational futurists here. It just will unfurl in ways "traditional" thinking will be shocked by.
The Covenant is the Mosaic covenant. There are as I have said elsewhere other indications that this will be the case. For example:
Matthew 24:20 (KJV)
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Given the fact that sabbath law (shomer shabbos) does not take precedent over fight or flight and has not in all Jewish history, why would Jesus make such a comment?
UNLESS
It was the Old Covenant that was in force (not the New Covenant) and that those enforcing it did not have a problem or perceive any danger or evil in the events transpiring in Judea, in Jerusalem, on Temple Mount, in the Holy of Holies...
This tells us that the beast will be championing the Old Covenant and will Jewish and will claim to be the genuine Messiah as opposed to Jesus of Nazareth who he will blaspheme as being a fraud...
It cannot therefore be a reference to the Law of Grace nor will it be some Papal ordeal in Rome or anywhere else. This is an in-house issue in Judaism which the context of the passage in Daniel 9 confirms:
Daniel 9:24-27 (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"the covenant" everywhere in Daniel refers to the Mosaic covenant which Jesus fulfilled and put an end to (cursing the fig tree) establishing the New Covenant in its stead... The false messiah will convince all but the saints (Matthew 24:24) that he is the true Messiah and he would have to be Jewish and affirm the Mosaic covenant to convince the Jews. There is also the warning in Matthew 24:20b that confirms this since sabbath law has never taken precedent over fight or flight in all Jewish history.
The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years.
Who are the many?
What is the covenant?
*********************
What covenant is this?
Daniel 9:4 (KJV)
4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
How about this one?
Daniel 11:22 (KJV)
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Or this?
Daniel 11:32 (KJV)
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Hint hint:
Daniel 11:28-30 (KJV)
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
So in...
Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
...should mean something other than the holy covenant the Old Covenant / Law of Moses?
Is that taking the Bible for its word or imposing human opinion upon the text taken out of context ending up in a pretext?
I am asking you this.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
[QUOTE]bound to this man in the abyss (the place created for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41) to be released for a short time in the last days to win the world over to oppose the saints and then turn on the Jews once the saints are gone...
Satan is not bound until the return of Christ and the start of the Millennial Kingdom.
Revelation 20:1-3 NASB
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
So every reference to a thousand years refers to the Millennium?
The Bible teaches about "the millennium." The question is, is the millennium a literal 1,000 years long or as is common in the use of the Greek a thousand years is a reference to a very long period of time without literal specification of precise length. Inflationary language in our day has expanded this to a million years. "Bill Clinton cannot get reelected, not in a million years."
Further, there will be a period in this millennium when edenic conditions are restored to the earth so that people who die at 100 years old will be thought a mere youth (Isaiah 65:20) which is not for a literal thousand years...
Also how many times do you see Armageddon happening? Before a literal 1,000 years then Satan is bound then he comes back yet again and turns the world against God and the world again attacks Jerusalem?
Take care to notice when Revelation is telling the same event in a different way.
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John Hale
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Question, Carol...
Is this a prophecy about a good thing or bad:
Isaiah 2 (KJV)
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[QUOTE] Zechariah 8:32 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
Oh?
Zechariah 8:22-23 (KJV)
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
Pray tell, Carol, when did this in bold happen?
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Carol Swenson
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We're going to think someone is God because he fixes the internet? ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
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Ezekiel 13:20
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A multi-headed monster raising out of the sea.
The sea being peoples,nations etc.
This is the one world system,the beast.
Something happens to inflict a deadly wound upon one of the heads. (Maybe a shut down of the internet,collaspe of the world bank,Cell phones being turned off,whatever it is it shuts down life as modern man knows it.)
Anti-christ rises up and fixes the deadly wound,the whole world worships him thinking he is God,including those who have been deceived by the modern day pre-trib rapture LIE!
Peace and prosperity for everyone.
He comes in with peace and prosperity,not war and mayhem as the modern day False teacher's books and movies portray.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Zechariah 8:32 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
The beast will be Jewish claiming to be the way to God. Eventually he will claim to be God (Daniel 11:36, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)
Zechariah 8 is all about the Lord restoring and blessing His people after their exile. It cannot possibly refer to the AntiChrist.
quote:
bound to this man in the abyss (the place created for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41) to be released for a short time in the last days to win the world over to oppose the saints and then turn on the Jews once the saints are gone...
Satan is not bound until the return of Christ and the start of the Millennial Kingdom.
Revelation 20:1-3 NASB
1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
quote:
Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"the covenant" everywhere in Daniel refers to the Mosaic covenant which Jesus fulfilled and put an end to (cursing the fig tree) establishing the New Covenant in its stead... The false messiah will convince all but the saints (Matthew 24:24) that he is the true Messiah and he would have to be Jewish and affirm the Mosaic covenant to convince the Jews. There is also the warning in Matthew 24:20b that confirms this since sabbath law has never taken precedent over fight or flight in all Jewish history.
The antichrist will "make a firm covenant with the many for one week," that is seven years. Non-literal interpreters of Daniel’s seventy-week prophecy usually attempt to make this covenant a reference to Christ’s covenant to save His people. "This, then, is a confirming of a covenant already extant, i.e., the covenant of God’s redemptive grace that Christ confirms (Rom. 15:8)," claims Dr. Gentry. Dr. Gentry and those advocating a similar view, must resort to a non-textual, theological interpretation at this point since there was no seven-year covenant made by Christ with the Jewish people at the time of His first coming. They must back off from the specifics of the text in verse 27 and import in a theological interpretation, thus providing us with a classic example of spiritualization or allegorical interpretation.
If this is supposed to be a reference to the covenant of grace, then "it may be observed first that this would be a strange way to express such a thought," notes Dr. Wood. Christ’s salvation covenant is not limited to seven years rather it is an eternal covenant. Daniel 9:27 says the covenant is to be made with "the many." This term always refers in some way to Israel throughout the book of Daniel (Daniel 11:33, 39; 12:3). Thus it is a narrow term, used in a specific context. It is not a broad term, synonymous with the language of global salvation. Further, "it is evident that the covenant is subsequent to the cutting off of Messiah and the destruction of the City and the Sanctuary, in the twenty-sixth verse; therefore, it could not have been confirmed at the First Advent," says G. H. Pember. Such an interpretation does not fit this text and it does not account for the seven years that Gabriel says this covenant will be in place. Dr. Wood further explains:
Since the word for "covenant" . . . does not carry the article (contrary to the kjv translation), this covenant likely is made at this time for the first time (not a reaffirmation of an old one, then) and probably will concern some type of nonaggression treaty, recognizing mutual rights. Israel’s interest in such a treaty is easy to understand in the light of her desire today for allies to help withstand foes such as Russia and the Arab bloc of nations.
Since a covenant as described in verse 27 has not yet taken place in reference to the nation of Israel, it must therefore follow that this will be a yet to occur future event. This then, demands a postponement of the seventieth week with a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years.
http://www.raptureme.com/featured/70-weeks-9.html
quote:
And if he is Judas Iscariot and able to scientifically prove he is him and is back from the dead (the deadly wound to this head of the beast that was healed seems to be what convinces the world in Revelation 13)
There are only two people in the Bible who are called the “Son of Perdition,” Judas and the Antichrist. But to believe that the AntiChrist will be Judas Iscariot, as many believe, would mean reincarnation. That isn’t Biblical.
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment (Hebrews 9:27)
Judas was only a type of the AntiChrist.
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John Hale
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The false messiah must have enormous powers of persuasion (false signs and wonders) to convince the world to follow after him.
If
the time Satan entered Judas and he took his own life to stop the raging evil within as the devil realized the execution of the true Messiah he'd worked so hard to insure would take place that he even personally entered into a man to see it got done... only to realize it was all part of God's plan and the devil's total defeat...
bound to this man in the abyss (the place created for the devil and his angels Matthew 25:41) to be released for a short time in the last days to win the world over to oppose the saints and then turn on the Jews once the saints are gone...
Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"the covenant" everywhere in Daniel refers to the Mosaic covenant which Jesus fulfilled and put an end to (cursing the fig tree) establishing the New Covenant in its stead... The false messiah will convince all but the saints (Matthew 24:24) that he is the true Messiah and he would have to be Jewish and affirm the Mosaic covenant to convince the Jews. There is also the warning in Matthew 24:20b that confirms this since sabbath law has never taken precedent over fight or flight in all Jewish history.
But he will also have Muslims and Buddhists and JW's and Mormons and atheists and agnostics and all the rest to convince too. Short of being Judas Iscariot and being able to scientifically prove this by DNA or blood content being that of the people who lived 2000 years ago... he's going to have a lot of people to convince in a short time.
And if he is Judas Iscariot and able to scientifically prove he is him and is back from the dead (the deadly wound to this head of the beast that was healed seems to be what convinces the world in Revelation 13)... then...
Matthew 24:24 (KJV)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
This will be the ultimate one...
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John Hale
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The head is the person in power.
Revelation 13:
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
See Revelation 17 and 18 to learn about the ten kings who give their power to the beast.
Zechariah 8:32 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
The beast will be Jewish claiming to be the way to God. Eventually he will claim to be God (Daniel 11:36, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)
Revelation 13:
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Just who do you believe Satan will give that authority to? Someone other than a human he personally possesses? Huh. Fat chance.
Luke 22:3 (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
John 13:26-27 (KJV)
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell,
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Revelation 20:
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 13:
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Revelation 13:
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Revelation 13:5-10 (KJV)
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
And it apppears the mountains are the 7 continents with 10 kings ruling over them.
You could be right. But if we look at Daniel and Revelation together we see 7 world empires before the reign of Christ.
Daniel 2
37"You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory; 38and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all. You are the head of gold. 39"After you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, then another third kingdom of bronze, which will rule over all the earth. 40"Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces. 41"In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with common clay. 42"As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle. 43"And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery. 44 "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45"Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."
The Chronology of World History
1st world power = EGYPT (in power to 1491 BC)
2nd world power=ASSYRIA (1491 - 606 BC)
3rd world power=BABYLON (606 - 538 BC)
4th world power=MEDO/PERSIA (538 - 333 BC)
5th world power=GREECE (333 - 44 BC)
6th world power=ROME (44 BC - 476 AD)
The two legs are the division of the Roman empire into an eastern portion called the Byzantine empire which ended in the 1400's and a western portion based in Rome which ended in the 400's.
The next world empire to come:
7th world power=Reign of the Anti-Christ (7 years)
Revelation 17:9-10 says:
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come.
The "one is" at the time John wrote this was Rome. The "other has not yet come" will be AntiChrist's government.
There has never been another world empire after Rome, but the AntiChrist will have a world government with ten kings subordinate to him. Many believe this is represented by the feet and ten toes of Daniel's statue.
The woman is false religion; idolatry.
They will ALL be destroyed when our Lord returns ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
Daniel 2:44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.
Final Power=The Return and Millennial Reign of Christ.
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WildB
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Ezekiel 13:20 = The Hireling Shepherd
Do not be fooled my baseball fans. Just another later-day weed seeder.
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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That is all.....
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Ezekiel 13:20
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And it apppears the mountains are the 7 continents with 10 kings ruling over them.
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Carol Swenson
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Revelation 13 tells us about the beast rising up.
Revelation 13:1 (NASB)
1And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names.
Revelation 17 tells us who the beast is.
Revelation 17:9 - 12 (NASB)
9“Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, 10and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 11“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 12“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour.
The 10 are people. Political people, to be sure, but still people.
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Ezekiel 13:20
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That multi-headed beast that rises out of the sea,ain't some monster rising out of the ocean...lol
The sea is the people Rev.17 for documentation.
Multi-headed beast is a Govermental system,the book of Daniel ought to explain that to you.
There are no monsters in the Book of Revelation!
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Ezekiel 13:20:
It's the One World Political System that gets the wound,and anti-christ heals it. Not anti-christ getting shot.
What does II Thessalonians ch.2 have to do with it? Nothing as far as the deadly wound,but it proves somebody has been lying to you if you think we shall gather back to Christ before the anti-christ appears. Call it rapture,or gathering the truth is there ain't no pre-trib "rapture". The finial generation whenever that comes will have to face the anti-christ.
It's a shame that FALSE TEACHERS are telling Biblically ignorant Christians they don't have to worry,they will be "Raptured" out of here before anti-christ appears on the sceen. What a set-up for deception,Beware of the FALSE TEACHERS of PRE-TRIB BAIL OUT!
quote:
It doesn't matter what someone says they believe,unless they can back it up with Scripture.
Where does scripture say "It's the One World Political System that gets the wound,and anti-christ heals it. Not anti-christ getting shot."
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Ezekiel 13:20
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It's the One World Political System that gets the wound,and anti-christ heals it. Not anti-christ getting shot.
What does II Thessalonians ch.2 have to do with it? Nothing as far as the deadly wound,but it proves somebody has been lying to you if you think we shall gather back to Christ before the anti-christ appears. Call it rapture,or gathering the truth is there ain't no pre-trib "rapture". The finial generation whenever that comes will have to face the anti-christ.
It's a shame that FALSE TEACHERS are telling Biblically ignorant Christians they don't have to worry,they will be "Raptured" out of here before anti-christ appears on the sceen. What a set-up for deception,Beware of the FALSE TEACHERS of PRE-TRIB BAIL OUT!
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
II Thessalonians Ch.2 plainly says we will not gather back to Christ untill after the anti-christ appears.
What does this have to do with him being fatally wounded?
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Ezekiel 13:20
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Exactly,where does it say in Scripture that anti-christ will be shot in the head and rise after 3 days?
It doesn't matter what someone says they believe,unless they can back it up with Scripture.
II Thessalonians Ch.2 plainly says we will not gather back to Christ untill after the anti-christ appears.
However,FALSE teachers say we will be raptured out before the anti-christ appears. Proving that they are nothing but LIARS.Tickling ears of Biblically ignorant pew sitters.
Hey,it sells lots of "Left Behind" books and movies to tell poor innocent people not to worry they are going to "fly away" before anti-christ appears on the sceen.
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Ezekiel 13:20
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Exactly,where does it say in Scripture that anti-christ will be shot in the head and rise after 3 days?
It doesn't matter what someone says they believe,unless they can back it up with Scripture.
II Thessalonians Ch.2 plainly says we will not gather back to Christ untill after the anti-christ appears.
However,FALSE teachers say we will be raptured out before the anti-christ appears. Proving that they are nothing but LIARS.Tickling ears of Biblically ignorant pew sitters.
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Carol Swenson
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Paul did not use the term Antichrist in his letter. This term is used in the New Testament only by John (1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 7). But this is the name we use to identify the last great world dictator whom Paul designated as “that man of sin,” “the son of perdition” (2 Thes. 2:3), and “that lawless one” (2 Thes. 2:8, literal translation).
2 Thessalonians 2 (NKJV)
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Some think the king of Babylon was possessed by Satan so that Isaiah spoke to both the king and Satan in this passage:
Isaiah 14:12 - 14 (NASB)
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
Same with Ezekiel and the king of Tyre in this passage:
Ezekiel 28:12 - 19 (NASB)
12“Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 “You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16 “By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. 19 “All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.”’”
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Betty Louise
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posted
I believe that the mortal wound will take place during the tribulation and because it will appear that the anti-Christ healed himself, many will think he is god. The world will worship him. The devil likes to imitate God so I believe the anti-Christ will lie dead for three days and then appear to rise again. I believe he will be able to rise again because satan himself will possess the anti Christ after he is mortally wounded.
There have been many types of anti-Christ but there will be only one anti-Christ that will rule during the tribulation.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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John Hale
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Well here I go again ready to ruffle the feathers of the chicken coup over what I believe the Bible says... ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
I believe the Antichrist has many names in scripture. And most here agree that the son of perdition is one of them. In writing about the rapture the Apostle Paul spoke of the beast...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-11 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a {{actually THE}} lie:
Are ye aware there be but one other use of that name in all scripture? Son of perdition?
John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
And that there is only one person in the Bible that the devil himself literally entered...
Luke 22:3 (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
John 13:26-27 (KJV)
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
And when he died, the Apostle Peter said about it...
Acts 1:25 (KJV)
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
The mortal wound to the head of the beast that was healed... is there any indication of time that lapsed from the wounding to the healing?
Could this miraculous healing rather be the Lord freeing Satan for a short time in the end when he raises the ire of the world against Spirit Israel first and then physical Israel in Armageddon?
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Carol Swenson
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Why is this posted on the False Teaching board?
There are three specific passages that speak of the beast (the Antichrist) receiving a deadly wound. Because the Antichrist will be a man with only one head, some argue the first passage, Revelation 13:3, which mentions "one of his heads" being wounded to death, is a reference to a branch of his government rather than to him personally. I think the event referred to in that passage will be, like all other prophecies in the Revelation, easily identifiable at the time the prophecy is fulfilled. The second two passages which refer to a deadly wound to the beast seem to directly point to the Antichrist personally being wounded.
• Revelation 13:3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death...
•Revelation 13:12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
• Revelation 13:14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
I don't think it would be right to say that the wound is literal, but the sword is allegorical. So, I guess he is killed by a sword.
Many people believe that the Antichrist and his fatal wound is Satan's attempt to mock the death and resurrection of Christ.
Both Jesus and the apostle Paul make it clear that in the end times there will be incredible false signs, wonders and miracles, performed by Satan's power.
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Betty Louise
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I believe he will be shot. I believe that satan will heal heal the anti-Christ by entering his body and possessing him.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Ezekiel 13:20
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Is the deadly wound, anti-christ being shot in the head or is it a shut down of a crucial part of the worlds political system?
Who heals the deadly wound?
Is the world ripe for it?
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