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Author
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Topic: Witchcraft in the church
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
Verses 17, 18
And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
SIGNS WHICH WERE PROMISED TO THE BELIEVING APOSTLES
In this passage lies the probable explanation of why the unknown scribe of the Vatican manuscript omitted to write these words, yet left a space for them. Having read it, and knowing it to be untrue in the sense in which he read it, he skipped these verses, intending to put them in as soon as he could be sure they belonged. This is speculative, of course, but it is only one-hundredth as speculative as the wild reasons alleged by radical critics. What that ancient scribe thought he read in this place was exactly what some moderns are reading into the passage, understanding it as a promise that ALL BELIEVERS in Jesus Christ shall be empowered to cast out demons, take up serpents, drink deadly poison without harm, and recover the sick by the laying on of their hands. There was one significant difference: that ancient scribe knew that such a reading of the passage is a lie, that it was not true then, nor was it ever true that all Christians can do such things. What a pity it is that some present-day readers are not so perceptive. What, then, does this passage say?
These signs shall accompany ...
The word "accompany" here is significant, meaning to "go along with one on a journey," the journey in view here being the travels of the apostles in the carrying out of the great commission just spoken. There was nothing in the use of this word to be construed as an endowment of permanent settlers not going anywhere, and provided merely for their benefit and comfort.
Them that believe ...
The antecedent of "them" is "the eleven themselves" (Mark 16:14); and the only way this can be avoided is to change the singular pronouns in Mark 16:15-16 into plural pronouns contrary to the Greek text. There is nothing difficult in this interpretation, since it is simply basic English.
They shall cast out demons, etc ...
The antecedent of "they" is likewise "the eleven apostles themselves," determined by the primary allusion to "them" in the same clause. There is no grammatical device by which this word may be understood as reference to any persons whomsoever except the eleven apostles.
From these observations it is clear that the utmost importance must be attached to the preservation of the singular pronouns in Mark 16:15-16; because, once these are changed, whether by alteration of the text or by a subjective projection into the passage of "them that shall be saved" through the preaching of the commission, the denotation of Mark 16:17-18 is thereby perverted and contradicted.
Note the following example of such a perversion:
Those who believe it and receive baptism will find salvation; those who not believe will be condemned. Faith will bring with it these miracles: believers will cast out devils ... speak in strange tongues, etc.
New English Bible (1961).
Take another example:
Those who believe and are baptized will be saved, and those who refuse to believe will be condemned, etc.
Living Word Bible (Paraphrase).
The tragedy of such bastard renditions of the sacred text is that they so pervert the Word of God as to make it teach a lie. In either of the two examples here cited (and there are many others), the Gospel of Mark is made to say categorically that every believing Christian shall be able to do the signs mentioned in this passage. The proof that such a thing is untrue lies in the obvious fact that the truest Christians in our whole generation cannot do these things. The news media, this very week (at the time of this writing), are carrying another story of a preacher in Tennessee who was killed by a large rattlesnake while attempting to demonstrate his ability to do these signs. But why not? Any one of a dozen so-called translations of the New Testament assured him that he could do so; but they "lied unto him" (1 Kings 13:18). Any translation of the New Testament that substitutes PLURAL for singular pronouns in Mark 16:15-16 is false. There is no Greek scholar who ever lived who could justify such a rape of the sacred text!
Churches that pass out these "translations" to their young people, or read them from their pulpits, should not be surprised at all to see their youth swept away in some charismatic movement, relying on the perverted text here as their "authority" from God. May God open the eyes of the elders of his churches!
The Book of Acts affords many examples of how most of the signs mentioned here were indeed "accompanying" gifts of the apostles. Peter even raised the dead; Paul shook off a poisonous viper into the fire; and the eleven spoke with new tongues on Pentecost. There is no Scriptural report of their being unharmed by poison; but the Saviour's word in this passage is sufficient for assuming that this sign was also fulfilled in the apostles.
(Coffman Commentaries)
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=016
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Robert E. Barger
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Member # 7998
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posted
The scriptures tell us that there is adividing line between believes and non-believers and that is the Holy Ghost. If you have the Holy Ghost with all that goes with it, you are in "the body of Christ". The true believer will manifest Mark 16
that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark|16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mark|16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,and they shall recover.
Anyone who does not believe in these things, Jesus says that they are unbelievers and not in His Church.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Wow. I understand this writer's distinction between "church" and Body of Christ, but I don't think every "chruch" is evil, do you?
He did not say every church is evil. But a very large number are. It is a warning to people to make sure it is about Jesus and not the glory of man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsz8ynPRP5o
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Just because a rat is in he cookie jar, that does not make him a cookie....
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
very good post David, the problem is the teaching in our day that you can be a member of the Church (the Body of Messiah) without being a disciples of Yahshua....
Yahweh have mercy on all the misguided preachers / teachers / students of this evil generation.
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Denominations.....
Anything that divides the Body of Yahshua into parts is evil....
I think the point the writer was trying to bring to light was no one is a Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Messianic Believer Outreach or any other group of people we think of as a Church.
"The Church" is people called out to represent our Heavenly Father, to build His Kingdom....
Greedy people have always been with us in every generation, just as the poor have...
But the True Believer is a disciple, he / she are learning from the scriptures and the Spirit to be like their master.
Just because a rat is in he cookie jar, that does not make him a cookie....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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botham
Advanced Member
Member # 7935
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posted
I checked out the links and this group talks extensively about hell. Ok, fine, they are correct in that a lot of churches neatly sidestep the discussion of an eternity of punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ.
Some churches even teach that there is no hell as such, just death as the wages of sin. This would mean zero justice and is wishful thinking.
I agree that there are many good churches that do not make you feel guilty if you're not tithing and preach the Good News from a perspective that the bible is the Word of God and to be taken literally.
The organization referred to in the links, and I didn't check them out extensively, will probably say that they alone have the correct understanding of the Chruch being the Body of Christ, just like so many before them have done.
They are correct to say that Christians must first be loyal to Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and His leadings, and to biblical truths as God leads, before any allegiance to a formal assembly.
One of the worst organizations that associates salvation with church membership(meaning of course their church) is Iglesia ni Christo founded by Felix Manalo.
God bless, Botham
Posts: 103 | From: canada | Registered: Nov 2009
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I am afraid this topic is turning towoards the question: are all churches bad? hehehe
I think the message that was trying to come across here is that some churches out there do not have our best interests at heart -- but have their own interestes at heart.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Not all Churches are bad. I have been blessed to be a member of several Churches that preach the truth of the Gospel. Churches who support Missions and reach out to the loss and are not afraid to preach the truth of the Gospel. Christians are the Church, but getting together with one another to worship God in one accord is not a bad thing.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I don’t think every church is evil – I also think that evil is a very strong word to use.
Most “Christians” I think inherently try to be good – but haven’t been feed enough spiritual food to grow properly.
They are spiritually mal-nourished.
Also, like the Holy Bible says, “Behold I send you out amidst the wolves.”
The bible said that for a very specific reason.
quote:
The main objective of “church” is to ensure growth in membership and income to support the livelihood of the institution and it’s leadership.
This sounds a lot like a business to me.
Let’s reword that sentence – shall we?
The main objective of “business” is to ensure the growth in customers and income to support the success of said business and profits for executives.
I remember in the bible there was a story about business being run inside the temple and this cool guy came in and put them in their place ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Amen?
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Wow. I understand this writer's distinction between "church" and Body of Christ, but I don't think every "chruch" is evil, do you?
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
This is a blog post I found this is very good:
The true church is the body of Christ, the temple of the Holy Spirit which consists of living bricks, disciples of Jesus Christ, operating under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The institutional church is an organization consisting of members who support the doctrines and objectives of the organization. The organization appoints leadership according to its own requirements. The institutional church is not part of the true church, the body of Christ.
Some members of the institutional church may be true disciples of Jesus Christ. I will forthwith refer to the institutional church as the “church”. Most ministries are also “church”. The main objective of “church” is to ensure growth in membership and income to support the livelihood of the institution and it’s leadership.
The “church” uses spiritual and scriptural witchcraft to cast spells over believers, to make them slaves of “church” and the leadership. Members are deceived into believing that the “church” has redeeming powers and offers them eternal salvation. This deception is supported with the Bible and often through “prophecy”.
Favorite scriptures are those relating to money and attendance. Members are compelled to tithe, 10% of their income and also to “sow” money into the “kingdom”. Many promise that God will multiply the seed in prosperity to those who sow the seed. The only ones who benefit are the robbers that run the “church”. Micah 3:5 talks about these:
“Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who lead my people astray; When they have something to bite with their teeth, They cry, “Peace,” But against him who puts nothing in their mouths they declare holy war.”
Amongst these are the prosperity preachers who tell you God wants to make you rich. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, deliver us from the bondage of sin so we can live holy and be children of God. He did not come to make us rich.
Other more spiritual “churches” use “prophecy” as well to manipulate and control those whom they ensnare. They quote scriptures relating to curses from God on those who do not follow the appointed “anointed” leadership. They also announce curses on those who oppose them. Their captives live in continuous fear of the leadership who make them believe that they are the direct oracles of God. They are witches and sorcerers, demons posing as angels of light.
Some of the “spiritual churches” propose certain exclusive excellencies , like the Hebrew names of Jesus, the Sabbath and spiritual revelations. These do not bring people closer to Jesus but rather serve as unfruitful distractions away from obedience to Christ.
All “churches” have one thing in common – they do not bring people closer to Jesus. They cast spells over people and control them for their own benefit. People believe they are saved because they belong to a “church”, pay their dues to the church and attend the “spiritistic séance.” They worship at “church” but they live like everybody else. They are still sinners because all those who belong to “church” are sinners, they have not been delivered by Jesus, they never repented of sin. The “church” is an instrument of satan. It does not bring people to repentance from sin and into a relationship with Jesus.
The body of Christ, the true church does not have hours of service but are indwelled by His Spirit, focused on the Master, always listening to the Shepherd’s voice. The true church is in constant fellowship with the Head, Jesus Christ, and has daily fellowship with other members of the body of Christ. They do not wait for an occasion but come together under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They do not tithe to the “church” but provide in the needs of the saints, other members of the body, they also care for the widows and orphans. They love each other with the love of Christ and demonstrate it through their actions.
Do you belong to a “church” or to the body of Christ?
It is not a sin to belong to a “church” but it does not bring you closer to Jesus. It is a distraction that can cost you eternity. Either you are a disciple of Christ and part of His Body or you are a deceived man pleaser.
http://bosjanbaltimore.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!B0BEEBE97EDC6535!927.entry
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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