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Author
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Topic: The Israel of God
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scythewieldor
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There were two olive trees: the wild one from which the gentile Christians were taken. The Good olive tree is the one explained by God in Jeremiah 11:16.
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Jer 11:9 And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.
11 ¶ Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.
12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.
13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.
14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
15 What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest.
16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
That olive tree is, actually, Jerusalem. The branches broken off were the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the men of Judah.
The inhabitants of Jerusalem is a phrase used often in the Old Testament. It seems to be a way of saying "the power people of Israel".
According to Ezekiel, Jerusalem had a sister named Samaria. Samaria was the chief city of Israel (the Northern Kingdom).
Both of these sisters had been married to God.
According to "the law of kinds" put into force by the Word of God (everything must bring forth according to its kind), two sisters must be of the same kind since they shared, at least, one parent.
Therefore, if Jerusalem was an olive tree, Samaria is an olive tree.
Also, according to Ezekiel, Jerusalem would suffer the very same fate as Samaria. Samaria had become desolate- without inhabitant.
Samaria's branches had been broken off.
However, God in Jeremiah 3 to put those children of Israel back among His children.
quote:
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
19 But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.
The Christians from among the gentiles are those branches from Samaria to whom God, the Hope of Israel, kept His promise.
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yahsway
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Genesis 48:18-
And Joseph said to his father, "Not so so, my father, for this one (Manasseh)is the firstborn: put your right hand on his head.(for the blessing)
But his father refused and said, "I know my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS or in hebrew Melo ho goyim meaning "Fullness of the Gentiles.
verse 8
"Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise; Your hand shall be onthe neck of your enemies; Uour fathers children shall bow down before you. (note the prophecy here concerning Yeshua/Jesus, we as the children of God the Father will bow down before Jesus)
Judah is a lions whelp. From the prey my son you have gone up.He bows down, he lies down as a lion; and as a lion who shall rouse him?
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes.(To whom dominon belongs) And to HIM (Yeshua/Jesus) shall be the obedience of the people.
First came Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob. Jacob is the first person called ISRAEL, and he is thefather of Ephraim and Judah. Therefore, Judah is the First Jew. Neither Abraham, Isaac, Jacob nor Ephraim were Jews.
Judah is a Branch in the olive tree of Israel (Jeremiah 11:10,16). He, like the wild branch, can be broken off and grafted back in again.
Regarding this olice tree of Israel, the word "Natural" refers to our nature. If we follow our sin nature we become degenerate. When we respond to the Cultivator of Israel our nature changes. When it becomes our nature to be "His", then, we are Natural sons in His olive tree.
In John 11:49-52 we read that Caiaphas, the High Priest of Israel, prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the "Jewish" nation. And, for the children of God who were "scattered abroad" that Messiah might gather them together into one people.
Those scattered abroad people are Ephraim. The melyo ho goyim, the fullness of the Gentiles. They make up the other branch of the olive tree.
It was to them (us) that God called out "Return to Me, O faithless Israel Then your beauty will be like the olive tree. (Hosea 14:1,6) But we must remember that every branch stands alone by faith. (Romans 11:20)
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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scythewieldor
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I've been trying to teach this for two years. You, Yahsway, are the first person on line from whom I have gotten an understanding return on this subject.
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yahsway
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Ezekiel 37 speaks on these 2 kingdoms, of Judah and of Israel. 2 sticks joined together by God never again to be divided, One King to rule over them forever, and I like verse 27 "My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be my people".
Revelation 21:3 says the same thing-
And I hears a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle (dwelling place)of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
All Judah (Jews) are Israelits BUT, not all Israelites are Jews.
Paul does reference Hosea in the Book of Romans when He speaks of the "stick of Joseph which is in the hand of Ephraim" Ezekiel 37. The Gentiles.
"I will provoke you (Judah,Jews) to jealousy by those who are not a nation. I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." Those "who are not a nation" were cut off from God in the book of Hosea and that was the Northern tribal Nation called Israel
"move you to anger by a foolish nation" Is that same nation.
Hosea 9 then God said: "Call his name Lo-Ammi, For you are not my people, And I will not be your God. This God said to the Northern kingdom Israel, not Judah the southern kingdom.
This is who Paul is referring to in Romans.
Hosea 8:8
Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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scythewieldor
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Dear Kindgo,
I have the feeling you didn't understand the things I wrote. Therefore, I will be repeating myself a little in this post. However, most of it is not a repeat.
If you read Hosea from the beginning, you will find that, to God, Israel and Judah are not the same thing.
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Ho 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
And, in fact, the children of the house of Judah are rejoined to the children of the house of Israel at some point.
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Ho 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
This was written at about the same time as Isaiah wrote the following.
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Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Is 11:10 ¶ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
There were two house in Israel. Ephraim was the chief tribe in the house of Israel. Because Joseph was the father of Ephraim, the house of Israel was, also, called Joseph.
Judah was the chief tribe in the house of Judah.
Jeremiah recognized the difference about 100 years after Isaiah and Hosea.
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Jer 3:6 ¶ The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12 ¶ Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Notice how God was married to the two sisters, Israel and Judah. Notice how He was married to Israel, first, making an example of her to her sister, Judah, God's second wife.
These marriages of God are repeated by Ezekiel whose ministry was contemporary with Jeremiah's- around the beginning of the Babylonian captivity of Judah.
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Eze 22:2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:
3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.
4 And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.
5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,
6 Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.
7 Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.
8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.
9 Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.
10 These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.
11 ¶ And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.
12 She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.
13 Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way,
The elder sister was Samaria, the chief city of Israel. Jerusalem was the chief city of Judah.
Notice how Ezekiel talks about those two houses being rejoined to each other.
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Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Now notice how Zechariah speaks of these two houses after the Babylonian captivity has ended.
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Zech 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.
7 And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD.
8 I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased.
9 And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again.
10 I will bring them again also out of the land of Egypt, and gather them out of Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; and place shall not be found for them.
11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.
Notice that the reunion of Israel with Judah is a future thing, and that Joseph/Israel moves to Lebanon and Gilead. That was the area occupied by the tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel- not Judah.
Now notice another prophecy of Zechariah concerning the two houses.
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Zech 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
God does not see Israel and Judah as the same people. In fact, when the Apostle Paul declares the prophecy to Israel through Hosea fulfilled, he is talking to the Christians who came from among the gentiles.
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Ro 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Since the Jews had not, at that time, ever been called "not (God's) people", he had to be talking to gentiles.When you return to the prophet's own words, you find he was talking to Israel as a people distinct from Judah.
quote:
Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 ¶ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
This misconception of the identity of Israel was part of the replacement theology that Isaiah recognized as happening before Israel's place even got cold.
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Isa 48:1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.
4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;
5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.
6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.
8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.
9 ¶ For my name’s sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.
Israel was cut off. Judah wasn't until Jerusalem drank of her sister, Samaria's, cup.
Samaria's inhabitants, the Israelites, were cut off and scattered around 700BC.
Jerusalem's inhabitants, the Jews, were not cut off and scattered until after 70 AD.
The branches that were broken from the wild olive tree (children of the house of Israel) began to be grafted into the good olive tree (Jerusalem, according to Jeremiah 11:16) when they, among the gentiles, began to receive mercy.
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Kindgo
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God set the Jews aside and put them under discipline because of their disobedience, but He did not cut them off from His grace.
He intends to bring His wayward wife home: "For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince . . . Afterward, the sons of Israel will return and seek the Lord their God . . . and they will come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness in the last days." (Hosea 3:4-5)
The lovingkindness and faithfulness of God in keeping His promises to the Jewish people should be a source of encouragement to all Christians. As we watch God fulfill promises which He made to the Jewish people thousands of years ago, we can be absolutely certain that He will be faithful to fulfill all the promises He has made to the Church.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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scythewieldor
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Many teachers, today, treat the children of the house of Judah as the totality of Israel when explaining Bible prophecy. It is time that more light was shed upon this subject.
One good place to start is this prophecy given following the return of the house of Judah from Babylonian captivity:
Zec 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Obviously, there is a difference between Judah and Israel at some point, as far as God is concerned. When this prophecy is read in it's context, we see that it is the third event of three sequential actions of Zechariah the first two of which were fulfilled when Christ was crucified, and when the thirty piedes of silver were used to buy the potter's field.
Zech 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Paul recognized this when He quoted Osee in Romans:
Ro 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Paul says that the vessels of mercy had been prepared unto glory at an earlier time. Notice, he says "vessels". Then, he says, "not of the Jews, only, but also of the gentiles".
Logically, the vessels prepared beforehand were the house of Judah and some element of the gentiles.
He explains this statement about the gentiles by referring to the prophecy of Hosea. We know that he was referring to some gentile element because of what he says. "I will call them my people which were not my people". The people of Judah had never, at that time, been called not God's people.
However, we find out in Hosea that Israel had been called that.
Ho 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 ¶ Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
God made a new covenant with the House of Judah and the House of Israel because He had been married to both of them, but they had broken His first covenant. Yet, He still had a promises to the fathers that He had to fulfill.
Jeremiah and Ezekiel, both, talk about the sisters who were married to God. God had divorced first, Israel, and He was killed by the second, Judah.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Rom 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Notice in Romans that Paul addresses those who knew the law as the wife of a husband who had been bound by the law. Those who knew the law would have been of Judah or of her proselytes. He points out that the body, or corpse, of Christ freed Him and His widow from His law. This allowed the widow to be remarried, and she is urged to be married to the resurrected Lord.
That the people to whom Christ should be married includes gentiles is clear from 2 Corinthians.
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Acts 18 shows that, in Corinth, Paul went to the gentiles with the message of Christ.
Acts 18:1 ¶ After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;
2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.
3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
This betrothal of God to Israel, again, was prophesied by Hosea.
Ho 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
Ho 2:20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
When you understand Old Testament prophecy, the prophecy to the desolate woman of Isaiah 54 is a clear reference to that marriage, and one which Paul brings up in Galatians.
Ga 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Therefore, the teaching that we who have come to Christ's name from among the gentiles are not a part of the Israel of God is false. In fact, if God could not have taken Israelites from all the nations where it was said of them "not God's people" and called them "sons of the Living God", He would be a liar and impotent.
And Paul would have used God's words in an unlawful way.
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