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Author
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Topic: The Way of the Master?
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AnnaNZ:
Hi everyone!
I've not seen this programme "Way of the Master" that you are discussing but I can say one thing for sure..... Having watched many American TV envangelist shows (on TBN), I found many of them were simply money-making "businesses" and I found their teachings largely non-scriptural. I think their teaching is secondary to their true agenda, which is to "prosper". Please don't get me wrong - there genuine teachers too, but here in New Zealand these people just stick out a mile in comparison!! I knew Ray Comfort (He came from my city before he went to the USA) and he used to own a christian book store here in Christchurch which I used to go to all the time.
I believe he is a genuine God-fearing man who's number one mission is to spread the gospel. His heart is just so full-on for the Lord. He was a simple-living man with very little, but was always there for everybody. I remember many times seeing him in his store praying for and talking to people and he would stay "open" way longer than the shop hours just to pray and talk to people who would wander in with a need, or just needing somebody to talk too. He spoke in our city every day to the busy lunch-time crowd where he was so often ridicled, attacked and blasphemed but he stood firmly on his little ladder and read from the bible. He brought so many to the Lord! He certainly gave of his spare time and I know his heart is not self-seeking at all, but he is one of the (rare) true
christian "evangelists" whose heart is to reach the lost. I'm sure his tv programme is as sincere and genuine as his teaching was when he lived in Christchurch! I hope we get this show some time!
God Bless,
Nice story, AnnaNZ.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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Eduardo Grequi
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posted
Sometimes it takes a community of believers to bring just one soul to the Lord. What I am getting at- It may take patience and love and unwaivering faith to make the faith of the Lord appealing. We will call this one "The Grandma or Aunte Love." Tough enough to lead with grace and fragility." Along comes a Teacher- who do not seem to jump in the bandwagon like his peers. Then comes a personal friend who is one of his/hers peer that the person who is deciding witnessing it firsthand whom his friend had a life changing, heart to heart change to bring about catastrofic behavoral modification. All this began with Grandma reading a bible story and ends up with the Spirit leading the unfaithful to full fruitation in the Lord. THE WAY OF THE MASTER, I believe think on terms of what type of society we Americans live in. Fast this and fast that, and low and behold- They challenge the listener with life changing questions that must be dealt with by everyone either now or after we die and are judge. EITHER WE BOW TO JESUS AS LORD NOW, OR BOW TO HIM BECAUSE OF HIS POSITION AND THAT IS GOD!
I praise the Lord- I found the Messiah now under grace and instead after death!
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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AnnaNZ
Community Member
Member # 4610
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posted
Hi everyone!
I've not seen this programme "Way of the Master" that you are discussing but I can say one thing for sure..... Having watched many American TV envangelist shows (on TBN), I found many of them were simply money-making "businesses" and I found their teachings largely non-scriptural. I think their teaching is secondary to their true agenda, which is to "prosper". Please don't get me wrong - there genuine teachers too, but here in New Zealand these people just stick out a mile in comparison!! I knew Ray Comfort (He came from my city before he went to the USA) and he used to own a christian book store here in Christchurch which I used to go to all the time.
I believe he is a genuine God-fearing man who's number one mission is to spread the gospel. His heart is just so full-on for the Lord. He was a simple-living man with very little, but was always there for everybody. I remember many times seeing him in his store praying for and talking to people and he would stay "open" way longer than the shop hours just to pray and talk to people who would wander in with a need, or just needing somebody to talk too. He spoke in our city every day to the busy lunch-time crowd where he was so often ridicled, attacked and blasphemed but he stood firmly on his little ladder and read from the bible. He brought so many to the Lord! He certainly gave of his spare time and I know his heart is not self-seeking at all, but he is one of the (rare) true
christian "evangelists" whose heart is to reach the lost. I'm sure his tv programme is as sincere and genuine as his teaching was when he lived in Christchurch! I hope we get this show some time!
God Bless,
Posts: 10 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
hardcore, thank you
nice to be back
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
The reason it surprised me to begin with is because I did no know what others thought about it because I never was asking. But that sure changed when I started talking about "Who is Jesus to you?" or "Do you have a Christian background?" You will get some strange answers and some don't even know what Jesus did on the cross for them.
You're exactly right, David. That was the biggest eye opener. I've been passing out gospel tracts ever since.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I like the Way of the Masters. It is a good study on how to talk to people about God.
Or course the blunt method does not work on everyone, just like discpline doesn't work the same way on every kids.
betty
Hey Betty Boop!
Nice to see you again stranger!!!
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
I like the Way of the Masters. It is a good study on how to talk to people about God.
Or course the blunt method does not work on everyone, just like discpline doesn't work the same way on every kids.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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trafield
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posted
quote:
Seems you are doing the very same thing to them that you are accusing them of doing.
I am sure you never say anything negative about anybody.
Or maybe you think it is OK for you but not them. Oh well....
Yes, I do, and no, it is not okay.
-Tracy
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by trafield:
Romans 2:1-11
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
Seems you are doing the very same thing to them that you are accusing them of doing.
I am sure you never say anything negative about anybody.
Or maybe you think it is OK for you but not them. Oh well....
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
quote:
We all know what criticism is. Rebuking and reproving is done with a loving intent. Criticism and judging is fault-finding done to make one appear or feel more righteous than someone else, even though we all have faults, and is self-seeking. And, unfortunately, the toughest criticisms are aimed at fellow Christians by Christians who expect that others act and worship exactly as they should even though we are all works in progress.
I am not sure how one would know that someone had such an intent. But I just had never noticed Ray Comofort or Kirk Cameron do what I would call criticism of others. I certainly have not ever heard them do anything that I thought their intent was to make themselves look more righteous than someone else. Granted I have not heard every thing that they have ever done or said. I just see from them a very passionate desire to pull people off the road to hell and say listen you dont have to go there. I just have not seen them as critical of other ministries that is all. I have seen them critical of not preaching repentance from sin.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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trafield
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posted
quote:
Tracy: I have to say that when I read your comment about their criticizing others I did not know what you were speaking of. I have not noticed that they do this. I guess what is criticisim to one is not to another. I dont have a problem with the truth. The Bible says we are to rebuke,reprove, and exhort one another.
We all know what criticism is. Rebuking and reproving is done with a loving intent. Criticism and judging is fault-finding done to make one appear or feel more righteous than someone else, even though we all have faults, and is self-seeking. And, unfortunately, the toughest criticisms are aimed at fellow Christians by Christians who expect that others act and worship exactly as they should even though we are all works in progress.
But perhaps this should be under another topic about Grace...
Romans 2:1-11
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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KnowHim
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WKUHilltopper:
My biggest surprise is how many "christians" they talk to really don't know the first thing about the Scriptures. This is the most shocking thing about it all--too me. Times have certainly changed since I was a kid...I just didn't realize it until they exposed it.
Yes is it is very surprising. The biggest surprise is a lot of the people say they are church going and christians and they don't know the truth.
Sad indeed.
Once we come to really know Jesus and are born-again, we are suppost to tell others the truth and not think it is a Pastors job. It is our job, which our includes me and you.
The reason it surprised me to begin with is because I did no know what others thought about it because I never was asking. But that sure changed when I started talking about "Who is Jesus to you?" or "Do you have a Christian background?" You will get some strange answers and some don't even know what Jesus did on the cross for them.
We must not let the body of christ (the church) continue to sleep and think all it well and everyone knows who Jesus really is, they DON'T and we need to tell them.
Well was in my preaching mode..... grin
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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WKUHilltopper: You should visit the barna site and read some of their polls. It is an eye opener.
Tracy: I have to say that when I read your comment about their criticizing others I did not know what you were speaking of. I have not noticed that they do this. I guess what is criticisim to one is not to another. I dont have a problem with the truth. The Bible says we are to rebuke,reprove, and exhort one another.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by trafield:
This criticism is confusing to non-christians who cannot understand why Christians are arguing amongst themselves all the time and are not more unified.
They need to do more of the former and less of the latter.
I don't have much of an opinion on that. It doesn't bother me they are critical. It's objective and made me question some of the things I do.
My biggest surprise is how many "christians" they talk to really don't know the first thing about the Scriptures. This is the most shocking thing about it all--too me. Times have certainly changed since I was a kid...I just didn't realize it until they exposed it.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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trafield
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posted
From what I know of their minsitry, they seem very solid in the Word. As someone who also tends to be very bold and direct, I like their style.
What I do not like about them is their general criticisms of other Christians who perhaps have a different calling and do not use their same in-your-face style. This criticism is confusing to non-christians who cannot understand why Christians are arguing amongst themselves all the time and are not more unified.
They need to do more of the former and less of the latter.
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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J4Jesus
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I guess when i think about it, Way of the Master helped open up my eyes.
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eric Byron:
I don't know. Something about these guys just does not feel right. BUt then I tend to question just about everything.
You're right in being cautious and prudent these days. There's more heretics out there than you can shake a stick at. So far, I've not heard anything but Scriptures from these guys.
At this juncture, I've not been any reason to question their intent. That can always change--put your faith in God, not in men--is sorta of my mantra.
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Eric Byron
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I don't know. Something about these guys just does not feel right. BUt then I tend to question just about everything.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I really like them too. I like the no holds barred unapologetic in your face truth message that they present... you are a hell bound sinner and you need Christ!
I was listening to JesusRadio the other night while doing some work at my desk and I heard Cameron's testimony. I wa very moved by it. He talked about how he was really in a place where he felt that he had it all going on. He did not feel that he needed anything. He went to church because his girlfriend's father invited him and he figured he should make a good show... what couldit hurt. He did not believe in God. But at church he heard the word and the word moved in him.
I think that is the key... we have this idea that it is us that wins souls.. us that leads people tp Christ.. IT IS THE POWER OF THE GOSPEL... if the FULL GOSPEL message is presented it will do what it does to whom God wills.
David I agree with you on follow up too. Again it is the word... people must be continually sent to the word.. it is the word that washes and the word that renews our mind and the word that brings hearing and faith.
If you ask me the 4 biggest problems in the western church today are:
1. We do not preach a full gospel to include the oracles of God, the truth about sin and our need for a savior.
2. We deny or ignore the importance of a believer's public confession and proclaimation of faith through a believer's water Baptism.
3. Too many people do not read their Bibles. They read what every body and his brother has to say about the Bible; they read the Best Sellers; but the Bible is what they need to read. The Spirit is in those words and THE Spirit will teach those who seek to be taught.
4. We study about Jesus - we do not study Jesus.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
>>> Rushing newbes threw a crash coarse, that the Holy Spirit carefully crafts with time and patience, will leave casualties.
Maybe you should read the book. They actually explain why a person needs Jesus Christ and not just tell them to raise their hand, say a prayer, etc.... I think the push button mentality, feel good gospel is sending many to hell.
Have you read the following?
True & False Conversion
Hell's Best Kept Secret
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. ~ Acts 8:39
God does the “follow-up.” The exciting thing about true conversion is that there will be little need for what is commonly called “follow-up.” A true convert will not need to be followed. He will put his hand to the plow and not look back (Luke 9:62). Of course, he will have to be fed, discipled, and nurtured. These things are biblical and most necessary. This can be done simply by encouraging him to read the Bible daily, answering questions he may have, and teaching him principles of fellowship, prayer, evangelism, etc.
Sometimes there is confusion between “follow-up” (we need to follow the new convert because he will fall away if we don’t) and discipleship (instructing him to continue in the word of Christ—John 8:31). Look what happened after the Ethiopian eunuch was saved—he was left without follow-up. The Spirit of God transported Philip away and left the new convert in the wilderness. This is because his salvation wasn’t dependent on Philip, but upon his relationship with the indwelling Lord. Those whom God saves, He keeps. If He is the author of their faith, He will be the finisher. If He has begun a good work in them, He will complete it. He is able to keep them from falling and present them faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.
Remember we are to share the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are not told to see how many people we can get to come to our church building. Jesus is the way the truth and the life! It is He that will stand with you on judgment day and no one else. Just be sure that whoever you are witnessing to comes to know Him (Jesus Christ) and not just a set of traditional values and a church building.
ThanX
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
I didnt feel comfortable with it. As I watched I thought it was a indoctrination flick.
Too me, their strongest card is teaching what sin is according to the Scriptures and then emphasizing exactly why the sacrifice by Jesus was important in relation to these sins--and how Christ is our only escape. I've not gotten any sense they're trying to indoctrinate anyone into anything--other than telling people they'll be subjected to the wrath of God if they don't repent and turn their lives over to Christ.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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KnowHim
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posted
>>> Rushing newbes threw a crash coarse, that the Holy Spirit carefully crafts with time and patience, will leave casualties.
Maybe you should read the book. They actually explain why a person needs Jesus Christ and not just tell them to raise their hand, say a prayer, etc.... I think the push button mentality, feel good gospel is sending many to hell.
Have you read the following?
True & False Conversion
Hell's Best Kept Secret
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. ~ Acts 8:39
God does the “follow-up.” The exciting thing about true conversion is that there will be little need for what is commonly called “follow-up.” A true convert will not need to be followed. He will put his hand to the plow and not look back (Luke 9:62). Of course, he will have to be fed, discipled, and nurtured. These things are biblical and most necessary. This can be done simply by encouraging him to read the Bible daily, answering questions he may have, and teaching him principles of fellowship, prayer, evangelism, etc.
Sometimes there is confusion between “follow-up” (we need to follow the new convert because he will fall away if we don’t) and discipleship (instructing him to continue in the word of Christ—John 8:31). Look what happened after the Ethiopian eunuch was saved—he was left without follow-up. The Spirit of God transported Philip away and left the new convert in the wilderness. This is because his salvation wasn’t dependent on Philip, but upon his relationship with the indwelling Lord. Those whom God saves, He keeps. If He is the author of their faith, He will be the finisher. If He has begun a good work in them, He will complete it. He is able to keep them from falling and present them faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.
Remember we are to share the Good News of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are not told to see how many people we can get to come to our church building. Jesus is the way the truth and the life! It is He that will stand with you on judgment day and no one else. Just be sure that whoever you are witnessing to comes to know Him (Jesus Christ) and not just a set of traditional values and a church building.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
They are out to reach the lost. They are not out to tickle ears. I thank God for them and pray for them often.
I think they are very, very much out to do the work God ask us to do and help others do the same.
I didnt feel comfortable with it. As I watched I thought it was a indoctrination flick.
Evangelism should be God inspired God lead...
Rushing newbes threw a crash coarse, that the Holy Spirit carefully crafts with time and patience, will leave casualties.
So after we indoctronate do we put them in a chrurch building with Rick Warren?
Maybe its just Im an old fart but these are my fears.
I say to be very carefull of thinking that much fruit means the souls we save.
For the real fruit that saves is that of the Spirit.
Gal.5
1. [22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Im with Peter on this one point.
1Pet.3
1. [15] But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
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That is all.....
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
I think they are very, very much out to do the work God ask us to do and help others do the same.
I agree fully. I think that's their only motivation--as it should be ours as well.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eric Byron:
I just ran into a show called The Way of the Master hosted by Kirk Cameron of all people (Anyone even remember Growing Pains?) I heard a lot of what they were saying and I was curious if anyone felt this was a good teaching method... Or are these guys just really full of it.
Personally, I find their ministry has enriched and strengthened me. I praise God for allowing me to find them. It's Gospel the way it was meant to be.
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Eduardo Grequi
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I indirectedly heard about the the Way of the Master thru the Left Behind Series, where Kirk Cameron played a reporter who was left behind. In doing so won my respect. I haven't seen the way of the master, but I have read about it in my e-mails. They are effective in spreading the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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dave23
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I love the show...It realy seems to lay it all out on the table for me as a Christian.
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BrazilianMommy
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I believe there are not only one way to reach the lost. Each person that comes to believe in Christ has a different story (a miracle, a friend, a movie, etc). Sometimes a guy that is preaching on the street say things that a pastor would not. Then the people there get thinking and in the quiet fo their rooms, they search the bible and see with their eyes that it is the truth. John the baptist was pretty rough and many came to know about Jesus through him. People are not very different than the people then. I am sure the way they do it work for some people that would not work another way.
Jesus healed people by saying 'Get your bed and walk', He put mud on a guy's eyes, another woman only touched his clothes. He did not use always the exact same method. I wonder why.
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Jesus loves you
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Eric Byron
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I just ran into a show called The Way of the Master hosted by Kirk Cameron of all people (Anyone even remember Growing Pains?) I heard a lot of what they were saying and I was curious if anyone felt this was a good teaching method... Or are these guys just really full of it.
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