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Topic: Widely believed errors of interpretation
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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May I correct this bearer of false witness against me; I'm here defending the thread, not launching unjust personal attacks, like you.
I don't intend on wasting much more time on this puny site so if anyone has a debate, let's hear it, otherwise I'm already gone unless someone causes a notification e-mail to me. I don't care if y'all accept it or not. This isn't a popularity contest & not about donations or sales or votes. There's others to inform.
"Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely"-Matthew 5:11
"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things shall they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me"-John 16:2-3
If the Comforter Christ predicted in John chapters 14/15/16 is the same bulletproof guy of Isaiah 54:15-17 & Ephesians 6:16, those religious murderers are in for proof God's against them. (Malachi 4:3-6).
"even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were NOT OF US"-1 John 2:18-19.
"Yea, and ALL that will live godly in Christ Jesus" (original name Yeshuah) "shall suffer persecution"-2 Timothy 3:12.
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for THEIRS is the kindom of heaven"-Matthew 5:10.
Christ predicted & spoke to a truth movement in Luke 12:2-7, which matches the 9/11 truth movement, which includes exposing the international conspiracy of secret societies & Illuminati clans like Rothschilds & Rockefellers ruling the world economy. http://www.infowars.com
Zephaniah 1:16-17 describes 9/11 pretty well (KJV), whereas "their blood shall be poured out as dust" in the day of alarm "against the high towers".
Traditional freemason rules require infiltrating any & all religions, so it's no surprise to find them defending freemasons at Christian web sites either. BTW, freemasons founded the Church of Satan, the mafia, & KKK.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
Posts: 14 | From: Seattle WA | Registered: Apr 2006
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ToBeContinued
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From where I sit, you are the one who generally attacks -
Your posture is purely defensive and certainly uncalled for - You do not seem to possess the ability to discuss, but rather you prefer the accusatory retort, with some defensive comments.
Your hostility is apparent, and therefore deserves not the dignity of a response.
I asserted nothing in regard to you, but did indeed give a small but adequate AND accurate interpretation of prophecy - Something you are obviously not hearing from God on.
Do you believe your positions to be given by the Lord? Do you believe your actions to appropriate and of God? Do you believe that your knowledge of prophecy is Holy Spirit inspired, prayerfully revealed inpterpretation?
Until you grow up and begin to conduct yourself as a fellow Christian, wanting to discuss Gods Holy Word with a desire to truly get closer to God, I will refrain from participating in conversations with you.
Your verbally abusive approach is not of God, and the division you try to cause by attacking with words needs to either stop, or be removed - MO of course...
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Your long winded reply distorts & even belies my positions. For example; I've said all along that 42 months=3½ years=1260 days. The impact of Rev 18:21 begins the 3½ year trib from which corrupt rule shall not rise again (read it).
How does a peace treaty constitute a tribulation beginning? SHOW ME where it says "at the end of the 7 years Christ shall return", & I'll show you that "When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory"-Psalm 102:16 KJV/101 other versions. It appears the Lord IS here before the 7 years is up.
You asserted, as I've already answered about, that Daniel refers to a week of years. PROVE IT! Why would Daniel try to confuse things by not calling years "times" as in other chapters of his? It makes no sense. A week is a week, a time is a year.
Olivet discourse mentions 7 years you say, but it doesn't. Mention of Israel is not in these chapters you claimed; Daniel 7, Rev 12, nor Daniel 12. You ASSUME it's about jews, & gentiles can forget about their Lord, while Judaism REJECTS Christ & is favored?
Like I've said, claiming scripture says things it doesn't is blasphemy. Your mention of Daniel 9:12 has no relevance to what you claimed, & Daniel 12 proves 7 years NOT.
You act as if I mentioned 70AD, & as if I claimed it's already fulfilled FALSELY. Please quote me exactly when pretending to slam dunk me.
Rev 12:17 refers to those "who hold the testimony of Jesus", which isn't jews, who reject Jesus, generally, so how can you claim it's about jews exclusively? In the sheep & goats parable, Christ says they're chosen according to their works & deeds, (NOT for jewish genes nor Judaic rejection of Christ).
Are you jewish or under the influence of the Scofield Bible footnotes?
Please accurately accuse me from now on, as I'm sick of the usual ploys of cyber operatives; distortion, lies, personal attacks.
It aint Christian.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Originally posted by John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck:
That's a fine example of what I was saying about you g a contentious harasser. You're NITPICKING a totally rediculous nonpoint.
You got nothing better? Please, as I asked you before, stop being obnnoxious... Debate or get lost
If part of your post is incorrect the accuracy of your entire post is called into question. However, this response calls just about anything you may write into question.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:
That's a fine example of what I was saying about you g a contentious harasser. You're NITPICKING a totally rediculous nonpoint.
You got nothing better? Please, as I asked you before, stop being obnnoxious... Debate or get lost.
Hmmm - Not a very Christian attitude?? - YOU might wanna lighten up a little. Get Lost? WHat kind of a reactionary comment is that?
You may also want to actually learn a bit about eschatology before continuing to attempt to "debate" as you put it...
There are many people who are confused about the proof for a literal end-times 7 year period.
We first view any scripture at face value, with a literal exegesis (explanation). This method applies to all scripture, including prophecies. In doing this, we recognize there are often figurative symbols embedded within a literal storyline of prophecy.
The error common among many, is to view all prophecy as figurative or symbolic, which robs the reader of any sensible meaning. It also leads to heresies and gnostic interpretations.
The Bible teaches a literal 7 year end-times period that is apparent to any person who takes the time to connect the dots.
First, let me outline the 7 year period in a synopsis for you, and then you can clearly see it as each piece of evidence is added.
The seven year end-times period begins with the peace treaty of prophecy (called the covenant with death). The peace treaty will be between Israel and the surrounding nations, brokered by international powers. Israel will give away land in exchange for an internationally guaranteed peace.
Half of Jerusalem will be given away. In exchange, Israel will be given half of the Temple Mount on which to build a Temple, unobstructed by Moslems. The evidence is that a wall will be built just north of the Dome of the Rock, separating the Temple Mount into a Jewish section and a Moslem section.
In the middle of the end-times 7 year period, a person called the beast (antichrist) will forcibly stop the literal sacrifices and grain offerings taking place at the Jewish Temple. He will falsely declare himself to be God on earth and demand worship. This is the abomination of desolation.
At the end of the 7-year period, Jesus will return to reign on the earth with the armies of heaven.
He will subdue all armies and governments. He will touch down on the Mount of Olives, cross the Kidron Valley, and enter the Temple Mount through the now-closed Eastern Gate. He will enter the Jewish Temple and take His seat.
Of course one points to Daniel 9:27 as a starting point for reference, but that is only one little verse.
Daniel 9:27 And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.
The week is a week of years. At the beginning, one person brokers a peace treaty, and that person later stops the sacrifices and grain offerings. Then comes another person who makes an abomination of desolation at the Temple.
Finally, a complete destruction is decreed to be poured out on the second person who performed the abomination of desolation.
Straightforward, simple, and easy to understand; but if Daniel 9:27 were all we had, then it wouldn't constitute enough evidence to convince most people.
Let's go on and look at corroborating evidence.
In Daniel 12:11, it states specifically that from the abomination of desolation, there will be 1290 days. The 1290 days is when Jesus the Messiah will come to reign on the earth.
Daniel 12:9-12 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end-time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1290 days. How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1335 days."
Clearly, the above verse corroborates a piece of the outline from Daniel 9:27. We are told that the sacrifices will be stopped and that an abomination of desolation will be performed. However, we are also told an important new piece of information, namely, that there would be 1290 days from the abomination of desolation until a certain event.
In the context of the chapter, Daniel 12, the 1290 days is the arrival of the Messiah to rescue Israel. The 1290 days from the abomination of desolation is what Christians call the Second Coming, and the Jewish people call it the First Coming.
The 1335 days points to the prophetic fulfillment of Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), where Ezekiel 34 is fulfilled with the judgment of the Jewish people by the Messiah. Their sins will be forgiven and they will be saved, as written also in Romans 11:25-29.
The 45 days between the 1290 and 1335 days is when the armies and governments attack the Messiah and are defeated, and all remaining people on earth are summoned for judgment.
Before we leave Daniel 12, I'd like you to note Daniel 12:7, that the beast (antichrist) will be allowed to shatter the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (1 + 2 + 0.5 = 3.5 years).
We will prove further down that a time, times, and half a time is a literal 3.5 year period.
In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus sat down with Peter, James, John, and Andrew, and explained the end-times period. In it, He spoke of the abomination of desolation occurring, and then the last half of the 7 year period would begin with the Great Tribulation period.
Matthew 24:15-16 Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains........
Mark 13:14 But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:20-21 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, .......
While the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70 AD, that was not the fulfillment of these verses (as the preterists and historicists claim).
The sequence of the prophetic events from Daniel 9:12 and Daniel 12 is that a peace treaty would have to be struck 3.5 years before the abomination of desolation.
Then the sacrifices are stopped, and the abomination of desolation performed in the Temple takes place where a person declares himself falsely to be God in the holy place of the Temple.
Only after those events do the armies surround Jerusalem. Then exactly 1290 days later the Messiah comes visibly to reign on the earth. 45 days after the Second Coming, all the people of the earth are judged. During the 45 days, all governments and armies on earth are defeated and subdued.
In 70 AD, armies did surround Jerusalem, but it was before the sacrifices were stopped. There was no abomination of desolation where a person declared himself falsely to be God and demanded worship.
There was no mark of the beast system (666), where if a person refused the mark, they couldn't buy or sell. Finally, the Second Coming visibly did not take place 1290 days after the destruction in 70 AD.
The Roman armies continued their dominance for hundreds of years. The people of the earth were not judged visibly standing before the Messiah. And Isaiah 65 was not fulfilled where people's lifespans increased so much, that a youth would die at the age of one hundred years. Only a foolish person would believe or teach that 70 AD fulfilled all the prophecies.
Let's go on with our proofs of the 7 year period.
In Rev 12:6, Israel (the woman, here is one of those figurative symbols within a literal timeline) flees into the wilderness for 1260 days, persecuted by the world system under the antichrist, a minion of satan.
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for 1260 days.
Revelation 12:14 And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time from the presence of the serpent.
The first thing to notice is that verses 6 & 14 tell the same thing, but the timeframe is defined differently. 1260 days = time , times, and half a time = 3.5 (years). This is the same exact thing mentioned in Daniel 12:7, except that Daniel 7 calls them the holy people, Israel. The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Revelation 12:4-5 amplifies that point, since it states that the woman gives birth to the Messiah, the one who will rule all nations.
The woman is not Mary, since in Daniel 12 and elsewhere, the prophecies speak of the Jewish people when it talks about the same exact prophecies. Christians all know that Jesus was born and lived as a Jew.
In Revelation 13:5, we are given an additional corroborating piece of the puzzle.
Revelation 13:5-7 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for 42 months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue was given to him.
Revelation 13 tells us the same thing as Revelation 12 and Daniel 12, that the beast (antichrist) has an allotted period of power of 42 months, and he will persecute the Jewish people for that timeframe. He will also persecute the Christians as is shown in Revelation 12:17.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
While the evidence is that satan through the antichrist will persecute Christians too for a season, the main point is that the persecution of the Jewish people is for 42 months.
Therefore: 1260 days = time, times, and half a time = 42 months = 3.5 years
I suppose that God added these different methods of describing the same timeframe, in order that people wouldn't foolishly say that it is a day for a year and the 1260 days is actually 1260 years.
It is described in every possible way, to avoid misunderstanding the point. The 1260 days of allotted power for the antichrist are actually 24-hour days, and equal 42 months, or 3.5 years. Daniel 7 also describes the allotted time of power of the beast (antichrist) and it is the same 3.5 year period.
Daniel 7:25 And he will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Here we again have the abomination of desolation mentioned, when the beast will speak out against the Most High by falsely declaring himself to be God. He will be allowed to persecute the Jewish people for a time, times, and half a time (3.5 times = 3.5 years = 1260 days = 42 months).
Which takes us back to Daniel 9:27 and the week of years. All of the above shows that included in the last half of the week of years is the 1260 days=3.5 years=3.5 times=42 months of the antichrist's allotted period of power on the earth.
All of the 1260 days is included in the 1290 days in Daniel 12:11, from the time of the abomination of desolation until Yeshua (Jesus) comes to reign on the earth.
The only way that someone can not believe this proof, is if they suddenly say they take all prophecy figuratively and don't believe the Bible is literal.
The internal proofs for a literal end-times 7 year period are extremely strong, with the last half being 1290 days long.
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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That's a fine example of what I was saying about you g a contentious harasser. You're NITPICKING a totally rediculous nonpoint.
You got nothing better? Please, as I asked you before, stop being obnnoxious... Debate or get lost
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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Chaplain Bob
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Rev 22 forbids adding or subtracting from "this book". That's pretty clear. It's violating the spirit of the law to add or subtract from the rest of the Bible also.
JJ:
If your Bible ends at "book" then you'd better get another translation. I just checked it in six translations and they all say either "the prophecies of the book" or "this book of prophesy". You seem to be trying to stretch the meaning to justify your position. The verse is referring to what is written in Revelation.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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May I correct myself. Math is not my subject of expertise. I'd said 4½ years in error. I calculated 2,300 days at about 6.38 years, which isn't 7 either.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Anyone confused by the 2,300 days of Daniel 8 can add it up to about 4½ years, not 7. It's irrelevant, except as one of 3 pre trib events, the others in Daniel 12:12 of 3 years 7 months and 3 years 8 months and 2 weeks. He'd already mentioned 3½ "times" in 12:7 & 7:25.
I'm watching for those events, to predict the next event based on the first event. I'm not Daniel, & can't answer about those events marked ahead of the 3½ END times.
As I said, the redeemed are promised a "new earth", which this isn't. Although the Lord is in the new earth at Eden. Ponder that & the wonders still beyond us today at http://www.world-mysteries.com with blocks over 1000 tons placed by unknowns at Baalbek, & half that size at Tiahuanaco, etc. Isaiah 19:19-20.
Taken back in time would certainly be a new earth; both new & the earth, for 1000 year reign. The pyramid culture was global. Math used at Giza was never understood until recent times.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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epouraniois
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Sorry you feel that way.
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Again you're pretending I've contradicted things you're saying, which is why I asked you to quote me when pretending to prove me wrong.
I NEVER said it's fulfilled; why do you pretend I did? To be contentious & a harasser? There's always some at any site. Please go away unless you have something relevant to show the original post wrong. You're trying to drag me down without anything to drag me down with, apparently.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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epouraniois
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Please forgive me, I am not trying to correct anyone, only to study and stay in the Word.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (KJV)
Has their Messiah been 'cut off'?
Can we find the 'week' in which Jesus 'confirmed' the covenant would be the last week, culminating in His resurrection?
Where "he shall cause the sacrifice to cease", for He became their Passover sacrifice forever. (1 Cor 5:7), making vain and void the animal sacrifice of the Jews.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
That this verse (Dan 9:27) describes the events of the "last week" of Christ's ministry. The week began on day 430 with his entry into Jerusalem. In the midst of the 4th day (midweek) He was crucified. The end of the week (3 days later) was the resurrection, where indeed all things were then finished and turned over to the desolator, who is yet to come.
(The lamb, by Law, must be unblemished and of the first year)
Counting backwards from the crucifixion to John the Baptists making known, we have a fulfillment, which does not negate the dual nature of prophecy, rather, establishes it further, the total time from baptism to the second following Pentecost filled the complete 70 weeks, or 490 days.
Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Yes, this is yet future, and is Satan himself trying to locate himself right between your temples, for as in 1Cor 3:16 and 2 Cor 6:16 Ye are the temple of God. The temple is not one made by hands with bricks. God makes the temple out of us, see Peter concerning the Hebrews, and Eph 2:22 regarding the church.
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
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The 2300 "days" are actually 1150 days, and fit quite nicely with the 5 moons and the arrival of Satan in the Revelation.
The main key to understanding the 2300 days in Dan 8 begins by looking at the question actually being answered. The 2300 is the answer to (8:13)........ "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice AND the transgression of desolation to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred DAYS; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (KJV)
Note Carefully: The manuscripts do not use the word "days" in these verses. The word translated days is actually 2 words, and unique ones at that. Literally, the translation is "2300 evening-mornings". The manuscripts use these words "evenings-mornings". You should look them up in your Strong's. Here are the Brigg's Lexicon usages definitions for comparison.
Strong's # 6153 `ereb- evening, night, sunset a) evening, sunset b) night (DIC)
Strong's # 1242 boqer- morning, the break of day a) morning 1) used of end of night 2) used of coming of daylight 3) used of coming of sunrise 4) used of beginning of day 5) used of bright joy after a night of distress (figurative) b) the morrow, the next day, the next morning (DIC)
Later on in this same chapter, the translators correctly translated it.
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. (KJV)
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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You're missing the point, as you said. I said I only accept 3½ years trib as valid, BUT if seven, why not 10½ by that logic? (to show it's illogical, especially when Daniel mentions 3½ years in 2 chapters).
The rest of your assertions are irrelevant to anything I said. Please quote me when you pretend to correct me.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming
And bring to naught by the manifestation of his coming (kai katargēsei tēi epiphaneiāi tēs parousias autou). Paul uses Isa 11:4 (combining 'by the word of his mouth' with 'in breath through lips')
It is a picture word for the Hebrews, and that which they were accustomed and inclined towards;
Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God
sa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave...How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer...Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell...They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man
And clearly, I agree that this is not 'Done' before it's fulfillment, wherein we find it is written:
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison
(yet, i see no cause to add 3 sets of 42 months together, i must be missing point somewhere on that) Rev makes clear, there is a five month period, but even that requires scrutiny, as the word is truly moons, not months, which needs an ajdustment of sorts
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Let me clarify then; The only basis for adding 3½ years twice is the 3½ years being mentioned in Rev 11/12/13...3 times 3½ is 10½ years, not 7. The figuring is illogical for claiming a 7 year trib. & I addressed the turning a week into 7 years illogic. The 2 witnesses of God of Rev 11 are first in line by that logic, but the "kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ"-Rev 11:15; so, they're still around in the end, the 2 being the same as Zechariah 11 two staffs of God. More basis to see only one 3½ year period, besides Daniel twice mentioning it.
My mention of taking out Paul was only to show how abominable censoring, changing wordings is. To do so was an abomination still being done. Look at all the different wordings of 2 Thessalonians 2:8, and tell me it isn't tampered with by someone. Include old version Bibles in your comparisons, & Gideons' Bible.
It ranges from the Lord removing the lawless one to the Lord slaying the lawless one on the spot.
Changing wordings and removing words doesn't serve God. See this link for some more examples; http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/which_bible.htm
I'd also add to the Bible the other books of Isaiah, & Wisdom (only in Latin Vulgate & Jerusalem Bibles), & Acts of Andrew, Gospel of Thomas & some other books.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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epouraniois
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Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Rom 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
hmmm,
I had been under the impression that the whole testimony of the Lord who created the age times and all things were prophetic by nature, and that without them we would only have what the god of this world offers...
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Rev 19:10 ...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
quote:
42 months=3½ years is in Rev 11/12/13, & Daniel 12:7-11 & 7:25. They added 42 months twice to get 7, which should be 10½ years
I sorta got lost on that math? help please?
(I can agree that there is a mistaken interpretation of a revelation of a 7 year period re: when the sunteleia culminates in the telos, i.e., the final meeting of the ages)
agape
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Rev 22 forbids adding or subtracting from "this book". That's pretty clear. It's violating the spirit of the law to add or subtract from the rest of the Bible also.
I wouldn't really censor Paul, because I use quotes from him to make points. But IF I did, all would condemn me for it. But if Inquisitioners do it as they exterminate the Bogomil & Cathars & seize their books, it's OK?
I'd like to add the book Dialogue of the Savior, actually, IF I could get the Vatican to release the remainder of the missing words. It's allegedly a book by Christ, the best of the alleged books by Christ.
I'd add the Apocalypse of Peter & Acts of Peter, since he's the rock upon which the church is supposedly founded. But the persecuter Paul, the most judgemental, has the most books in the Bible.
Changing wordings of the Bible is FRAUDULENT & done in a biased manner, I noticed. I object the same as you'd object if I imposed a censored Bible on y'all.
I'll just tell the Lord you guys said it's no problem to rewrite the Bible to order, that you may share my damnation for it.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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Chaplain Bob
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In reply to Mr Allen; It's OK to cut out parts of the Bible? OK, Paul is the most conservative, I'll think I'll cut him out, then.
That's a typical extreme, immature response. Where in my post did I say anything about cutting out parts of the Bible?
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Modern Bibles have many less words than older Bibles, violating Rev 22:19 command about subtracting from the words.
Frankly, that's the most blatant misinterpretation of a verse I've ever read. That verse is referring to the book of Revelation only ("...this book of prophesy...") and refers to changing the meaning of that book.
Good point! Right on! I've been thinking about that lately and how people always use that Verse in Revelation to show that the Canon is closed.
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BORN AGAIN
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hello JJ Dierbeck, that's one of wilder Topic's I have read in a while.
Regarding this that you wrote quote:
He's blind in his right eye.
I know a good opthalmologist.
Regarding your Topic title, Widely believed errors of interpretation, whose errors are these that you are describing, yours, or someone else's?
Take care of yourself, or perhaps, repent? God bless, BORN AGAIN
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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In reply to the URL posted by His Grace; The whole synopsis of that article requires us to believe that when Daniel said a week, he meant 7 years, based on the jewish calendar being 360 year cycles. I'm not sure the jewish calendar system even existed then, much less that Daniel was conclusively calling a week 7 years. Why not say 7 years as 7 times, as he did in Daniel 12:7 & 7:25?
I'm not persuaded by that guessing at Daniel not saying what he meant while speaking of the 70 week period of the rebuilding. WEEKS, not years.
There should be a rule requiring the faithful to state what's speculation & what's actually stated in scripture. That's why there's so much confusion of interpretation, people accept as Gospel without reading for themselves to discern.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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In reply to Mr Allen; It's OK to cut out parts of the Bible? OK, Paul is the most conservative, I'll think I'll cut him out, then.
In reply to HisGrace; Neither of us can prove conclusively that there is 2 3½ year periods, Although a period of Daniel 12:12 slightly exceeds 3½ years, while Daniel 12:11 clearly is about 3½ years exactly.
Rev 6 doesn't say the first of 4 beasts is the antichrist, nor the second for that matter, etc. The murderous rulers of earth are all beasts; Pol Pot-never charged, Pinochet-never tried, etc.
It doesn't clearly state that multiple 3½ year periods are involved, so that's speculation, not Gospel truth.
You made a good argument about the 12 tribes. Consider the scattering of genes at the tower of Babel incident, across the earth. Add that to the genetic upgrade theory, & all whites are of the tribes. That's why about 200 myths match up from around the world about gods among men. http://www.atlan.org
Rev 7:9-10 speaks of multitudes uncountable before the throne, which can be spiritually speaking, not physically. Does Revs contradict itself about 144,000 redeemed? I think not. Yet is true both ways.
I'm not trying to shoot you down, but will acknowledge if conclusive Biblical proof shows me conslusively in error. Proof of 2 3½ year periods escapes me thus far.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck:
Everyone's heard of a 7 year tribulation, but no mention of a 7 yr trib is in the Bible. 42 months=3½ years is in Rev 11/12/13, & Daniel 12:7-11 & 7:25. They added 42 months twice to get 7, which should be 10½ years by that logic instead, but I say it's 3½.
Many think that the tribulation lasts only 3 1/2 yrs. but the anti-christ introduces the mark of the beast after the first 3 1/12 yrs.
In Rev. 6 the first seal the anti-christ is released, but hasn't used his full power yet.
Rev. 6:3 When the Lamb broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, "Come!" and another horse appears, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to remove peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.
The third seal will be famine . The fourth seal Will be Death , to be given authority over 1/4 of the world, "to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals." (Vrs.8)
During the first part of the tribulation there were will be a season where there will be 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Judah groomed to bring a great harvest of souls.
Rev 7: 1-4 Then I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth. holding back the four winds from blowing upon the earth.
And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God. There were 144,000 who were sealed from the tribes of Israel.
In verses 9,10 it says that there will be multitude saved. "After this I saw a vast crowd,, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb."
Other major events are listed in the next few chapters, but lets move on to Rev. 13.,
The great tribulation starts in the second half of the 7 years. We see in Rev. 13 that the anti-christ introduces the mark of the beast.
Rev. 13:5-8 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
Rev.13:16-18 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. his calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Modern Bibles have many less words than older Bibles, violating Rev 22:19 command about subtracting from the words.
Frankly, that's the most blatant misinterpretation of a verse I've ever read. That verse is referring to the book of Revelation only ("...this book of prophesy...") and refers to changing the meaning of that book.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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John 16:2-3 JJ Dierbeck
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Everyone's heard of a 7 year tribulation, but no mention of a 7 yr trib is in the Bible. 42 months=3½ years is in Rev 11/12/13, & Daniel 12:7-11 & 7:25. They added 42 months twice to get 7, which should be 10½ years by that logic instead, but I say it's 3½.
The redeemed are promised a "new earth" in 2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17 & 66:22, & Rev 21:1. THAT's where the 1000year reign is, for those redeemed. Who can prove me wrong?
The rapture I had a glimpse of once, & the meeting the Lord in the clouds is immediately before the coming with clouds, gathering for it to be with the Lord from then. Many can be spiritually there without being physically there via the all in one spirit of John 11:52; "For in him we live,and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring"-Acts 17:28. This explains also the concept of the "last Adam" of 1 Corinthians 15:45-47, he's a spiritual ark of the people. Seeing thru his eyes in the future is how prophecy works (Job 19:25).
The redeemed shall be there, & his mighty angels (2 Thessalonians 1:7). The angels shall remove the evilest in Matthew 13:49-50, & arrest the rulers according to the 1st book of Enoch & Isaiah 24:21-22. The angel of the bottomless pit (Bermuda Triangle type warps), unleashes those who hurt only those who have not the seal of God, & the 4 angels bound in the Iraq war zone, when loosed, exterminate the wickedest third, (Rev 9).
Google "time warps" for physicists' confirmation of warps via fluxes of the EM field possible on any large enough planet with a strong enough field yet.
"The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath"-Psalm 110 KJV or 109 other versions. "In righteousness he doth judge and make war"-Rev 19:11. "they shall fight because the Lord is with them"-Zechariah 10:5. "The Lord is a man of war"-Exodus 15:3. Nehemiah 4:14.
"When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory"-Psalm 102:16 KJV or 101 other versions.
The beast and the devil are 2 different guys in Rev 20:10.
The Comforter Christ predicted in John 14/15/16 is the Lord's Christ of Rev 11:15, Acts 4:26, Psalm 2:2, & of this riddle; "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool"-by David & quoted by Christ. Descriptions of him are in Zechariah 11, along with description of Christ, as the 2 staffs of God. He's blind in his right eye.
Another possible description of him is in Isaiah 52:14, having a marred face & form from deformity or scarring. the publisher of the word of God. A musical prophet is predicted in Ezekiel 33:32-33. A near invincible man of God is predicted in Isaiah 54:15-17.
The only mention of the Latin name Lucifer, which means "light-bearer" is in Isaiah 14:12 KJV or Latin Vulgate; modern Bibles have censored the name. Isaiah does not say he's the devil, as most believe, but that he's raised from death when the cities of the world are collapsed from the trib impact global shock quake. Isaiah 14:16-19.
There are no rituals to Satan in the Bible, only early Christians calling upon Satan to curse mockers & persecuters as in 1 Timothy 1:20 & 1 Corinthians 5:5.
The so called church of Satan denies the Biblical Satan will or does exist. Freemasons Aliester Crowley & Anton LaVey founded the church of Satan inventing rituals based on Baalist/Moloch ritualism, such as filmed by Alex Jones at Bohemian Grove, performed by top politicians in robes. ( http://www.prisonplanet.com )
Traditional masonic rules require all members to infiltrate any religion. So, the freemason influence is easy for me to spot in widely believed but scripturally unfounded notions. Study of the Scofield Bible footnotes shows pro jewish influence, regarding "sheep & goats" parable, saying jews are the chosen, though Christ said by their works & deeds are they chosen. The footnotes violate Rev 22:18 forbidding adding to the words.
Modern Bibles have many less words than older Bibles, violating Rev 22:19 command about subtracting from the words. Some words are changed, like Romans 14:2-4 has the word herb replaced with vegetables, which makes zero sense in that context.
Freemasons also founded La Cosa Nostra mafia (Mazzini), & KKK (Albert Pike). Hells Angels pres Barger displayed a masonic award plaque as he admitted on the tv documentary that the club does contract murders, as if there's no laws or gov (National Security Agency covers up for masonic orgs).
The capitol of Baalist human sacrifice anti-religion was Babylon, so Rev 17 & 18 were exactly onto it in calling the world Babylon, with VIP politicians doing Baalist rituals at Bohemian Grove (including Bush's).
The "***** of Babylon" rules over kings & drinks the blood of martyrs, like freemasonry. Pope ClementXII in 1738 called Scottish Rite freemasonry the "synagogue of Satan", as did the Vatican Roman Curia 1961 book; "The Plot Against the Church". But Vatican attache & excorcist Father Malachi Martin exposed a masonic order within the Jesuits on page 472 of "The Keys of His Blood", & exposed murder rituals of initiation while interviewed by Art Bell.com. Google "Black Pope", the power behind the throne & reputed top freemason.
Above the freemasons is the 13 Illuminati clans; Rothschilds, Rockefellers, DuPonts, etc. See "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" by Fritz Springmeier.
The masonic "Skull & Bones Order of Death" was Illuminati founded & has Bush & John Kerry as members, sworn to secrecy & loyalty to a foreign power (Top dog Rothschilds are German jewish, & founded B'nai B'rith & Israel). Adam Weishaupt heralded the takeover of freemasonry by Illuminati in the later 1700s.
See the Bush name in Hebrew add up to 666 using 3 different methods of numerology at http://www.bushisantichrist.com
See the beast predicted by Daniel 7:24-27 as fulfilled at the time of the 3½ years (a time and times and a dividing of time). Then consider that Bush HAS changed times and laws as predicted (UNpatriot Acts overthrew the Bill of Rights at will), and subdued 2 kingdoms, or 3 if you include the USA via election fraud - http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529 & blackboxvoting.org (SHOULD be big news).
He is defeated by 10 kingdoms as the 3½ years starts, which fits the coming at the fall of Israel scenario, because USA either is absent or defeated with Israel for that to occur. It looks like the New World Order is flushing America down the toilet in various ways already.
Only govs can impose a mark of the beast widely. Govs are defeated in Rev 19:19, with their soldiers. Ephesians 6:12.
A topic used as a strawman to attack Bible believers is evolution. Consider that Cain went to the land of Nod to get a wife, meaning, Adam & Eve were the first of their breed, not the first upright walkers. So the Bible IS compatable with evolution. I call this belief genetic upgrade creationism, which is taken a step higher by the "sons of God" mating with daughters of men in Genesis 6:2-4, which matches many myths of gods among men in the past.
Biblical support for this is in 1 Kings 20:35-41 KJV or 3 Kings other versions, where one of the race of the "sons of the prophets" has to smear himself with black ash on his hair & skin to pass for ordinary.
The evolution debate is the weakpoint of faith, unless you recognize genetic upgrade creationism. Missing links of evolution help the genetic upgrade theory, as angels upgraded gene pools.
Jacob wrestled with an angel.
http://www.ufonasa.com & http://www.ufoevidence.org
Multiple ufo sightings in the Bible & India Vedas.
Elijah slew 450 of Jezebel's prophets of Baal, & Jehu was blessed for exterminating all Baalists in Israel. David was referring to avenging the child sacrifices of Babylon in Psalm 137:8-9 KJV or 136 other versions.
Bush is an actor out for votes. Abortion continues, depleted uranium & violations of Geneva Conventions continue, & rights are trashed. "come out of her my people"-Rev 18:4.
World war 3 may come to America, & Nehemiah 4:14 approves defending against invasions. (Important) The more accurate interpretation of "Thou shalt not kill" in Hebrew is Thou shalt not murder unjustly, according to a Hebrew translations expert on coasttocoastam.com radio.
The seas are already dying as predicted. Google "Mir mold" about the mutated mold loosed, & "psuedo-nitschia" red tide turning ocean water into domoic acid. UN Environmental Commission cited 150 dead zones in oceans already. I advise water filters for campers & distillers for water supply after the Armageddon impact (Rev 18:21, 16:18, 8:5-12, & Matthew 24:16-18). You can trade water for whatever then. Acts 3:23!
Here we go, with the prophets along with us in spirit into Armageddon. It's all falling into place before our eyes. Let fear of death belong to the evil, not us; Hebrews 2:15 & Jeremiah 10:2. God has bigger fish to fry by far.
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Matt 13:49 & 5:10-11, Isaiah 24:21, Psalm 110 KJV(109 others), Rev 19:11, Luke 12:2-7, 1 John 2:18-19, Zechariah 11, Rev 11:15
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