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Author
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Topic: Why I don't Celebrate Christmas
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mom2jules
Community Member
Member # 5366
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posted
If i didn't know I was on a Christian site I would think this whole arguement over Christmas was discussed with mainly Jehova Witnesses. Well anyway
MERRY CHRISTMAS...I plan to enjoy it and celebrate the birth of Christ ( even if it not a proven date it is the only one I know)
Teh one thing I agree with is that it is too much about buying and buying and buying....but my daughter knows that it is about Jesus first and gifts second. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
Posts: 11 | From: Delaware | Registered: Dec 2005
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
Perhaps all of this happens because this 'season' finds its origins in Pagain lies (which has had Christs' name superimposed upon it).
IF We TRULY LOVE GOD, we will Seek to Worship HIM in Spirit and in TRUTH (as Jesus said). As we've seen from all the research, there is NO Truth in "Christmas." I can't help but think that this Breaks our Fathers heart ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
HE gave us the Old and New Testaments that we could KNOW Him... what HE loves, what HE hates, what HE expects of us. God has Not changed. Perhaps it's time we took heed.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Good to see you Cathy and indeed a good word!
Is the peace, goodwill, abundant giving that people do this time of year genuine or guilt? Is it something that we do to tell ourselves we have done something, when reality is that it should be our year long daily mindset?
Does the season really bring out the best in people? I don't see that when I see the pushing and shoving and hoarding and gluttony of the shopping scene and because of seeing these things I find myself questioning the genuine-ness of the "Holiday" giving that I see. Not speaking or judging any specific individual, just speaking the atmosphere this time of year as a whole!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
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posted
Agreed.
Good points by_grace and I'm so glad to see you back!
P.S. I will have East contact you regarding the EWP board.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by by_grace:
While I realize that some may argue that God uses the season for the good, my question is this...why would he need to? does this mean that we. as christians "need" this time of year to witness? Should we not be available "full tilt" ALL year?
AMEN Sis and Welcome Back! That is a very good point indeed ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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by_grace
Advanced Member
Member # 5340
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posted
Thanks for the info Softtouch, I have found that
Christmas does indeed bring the "claws" out in some otherwise friendly folk.
In the name of Christmas, they run here and there buying and well wishing, and for what really?
What about the MANY children who are completed devestated at this time of year? the poverty stricken children who will have all but a "Merry Christmas".
I realize that some churches will try to pick up the slack, but to no avail for most. Shame on the commercialism, the shallowness, the complete disregard for those who cannot "COMPETE" at this awestruck, twinking lights,gingerbread consuming poser - show.
I have a hard time with this, as my extended family is usually full tilt on the "season", I have only recently myself found out some of the origins.
While I realize that some may argue that God uses the season for the good, my question is this...why would he need to? does this mean that we. as christians "need" this time of year to witness? Should we not be available "full tilt" ALL year?
just pondering....
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To "love thy neighbor as thyself" is not expressed by forfeiting, twisting or reinterpreting the Word of God for the cause of unity. It is expressed by hearing, obeying and proclaiming the whole council of God regardless of whom it might offend.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
An awesome work with your article Deb. God bless you for your heart for Christ and your search for His truth.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
Wait a minute Sister Betty... No one is saying that we have to be circumcised or convert to Judiasm. Please don't stretch what's being said. I am Not a Judiazer or Legalistic.
GOD Set the Feasts and they are a Picture of Jesus and what He Did and Will Accomplish. These were the Days that GOD said to observe (Gods Appointed Times), these are GOD's Traditions, not Mans. God did Not tell us to celebrate the Birth of Jesus. IF that had been HIS intention, HE would have Clearly said it in the Bible, but it's Not there and the Early Church did not celebrate it.
Why do you think God gave us BOTH the Old and New Testaments?
Do you think God Changed inbetween the two?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
celeberating Christmas does not require that you celeberate Jewish Festivals. Jesus died for all of our sins and not just the Jews. Even Paul got on to Peter for trying to make the non-Jews be circumcized.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
no where in the Bible does it say, DONT CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, nowhere.
This is true. But if you were going to celebrate the birth of Christ, you would have to do it by observing the festival of Tabernacles, for this is the time that God appointed for the birth of Jesus - Emanuel - God with us.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.
I ask you to meditate on this scripture...
Revelation 21:3 and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, ‘Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them—their God,
Why does it say the tabernacle of God is with men and He. And then it says and GOD Himself?
The Tabernacle of God is Christ!
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
This is HIS festival - the appointed time when GOD was manifest in the flesh.
This is why the nations will come to the feast of Tabernacles in the Millinnium.
Jesus told us what to do in rememberence of HIM; to eat the bread of HIS covenant!
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Because it is in eating of that bread - the bread of HIS covenant that we do abide in HIM in the MOST HOLY PLACE!!
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
CHrist is the TABERNACLE!!!
Hebrews 9:8 ¶ the Holy Spirit this evidencing that not yet hath been manifested the way of the holy places, the first tabernacle having yet a standing;
9 which is a simile in regard to the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which are not able, in regard to conscience, to make perfect him who is serving,
10 only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances—till the time of reformation imposed upon them.
11 And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands—that is, not of this creation—
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Christ is not remembered and HIS brith not celebrated on Decemeber 25th. His Appointed time.. and there is for every thing an APPOINTED Time... CHRIST"S appointed time was and is the first day of the feast of Tabernacles, and he was circumcised on the Great Last Day of the feast on the 8th day. This is the only feast that is 8 days long.
Luke 2:21 ¶ And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
Mary could not go to Jerusalem because she was not clean
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
25 ¶ And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Why did they not just circumcise him in Bethleham? They were in Bethleham to pay their taxes, Why would a woman with new born baby travel to Jerusalem to have her child circumcised? Because this was the feast of Tabernalces and HE was to be presented to the Lord, as was Joseph. The feast of tabernacles is a pilgramage feast.
Now listen to Jesus speak himself from Jerusalem on THAT GREAT LAST DAY OF the feast of Tabernacles:
John 7:37 ¶ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Ah, but Jesus did come out of the city of David didn't he!
That statement about living water was a statement that meant something to the Jewish people. It spoke of the living water that the High Priest used to cleanse the altar at the feast of Tabernacles. This was Jesus proclaiming himself to be the High Priest.
The cry too, when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the colt of an *** and they waved palm frauns and cried Hossanna . Save us! Is from the feast of Tabernacles - the cry of our Salavation... Hosanna in the Highest... is a cry that is shouted at the Feast of Tabernacles.
This is Tabernacles... not Christmas, and even the stones would have cried out Hosanna!
Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Matthew 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
Mark 11:9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
The stones! But not the Christians... too busy celebrating HIS birth at the wrong time of the year.
Ecclesiastes 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
AMEN Sister Linda - This Be The Truth! It bears Repeating ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(P.S. Thanks for my sparklie new look! I Love it! ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif) )
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
{{{{{God Bless You Sister Hardcore}}}}}
I'm wipped! It took me Weeks to put that together and I've been struggeling with this issue for a few Years now. I know this struggle isn't over yet. I look forward to January 2nd LOL!
I couldn't get myself to go into the Santuary on Sunday... Ian sat through Sunday School (which was all about Truth and how just a little lie corrupts the whole thing)and he kept looking around the Santuary with all the Christmas decorations and the Lord just Really Convicted his heart! When we got home he sent an email to our Sunday School teacher explaining what the Lord's been laying on our hearts regarding Christmas. I don't know how that's going to be recieved... but it's in the Lords hands!
We'll be going back to Son of David Messianic Congregation until the "Holidays" are over with. I don't know where the Lord is leading us with all of this, but we'll know in HIS Time what he wants us to do
You're right, this is hardest on Steven. But God Be Praised! The boy Understands!!! (Not because Mama said so, but because he Sees the Truth!). God is So Good!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
quote:
no where in the Bible does it say, DONT CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, nowhere.
This is true. But if you were going to celebrate the birth of Christ, you would have to do it by observing the festival of Tabernacles, for this is the time that God appointed for the birth of Jesus - Emanuel - God with us.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.
I ask you to meditate on this scripture...
Revelation 21:3 and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, ‘Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them—their God,
Why does it say the tabernacle of God is with men and He. And then it says and GOD Himself?
The Tabernacle of God is Christ!
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
This is HIS festival - the appointed time when GOD was manifest in the flesh.
This is why the nations will come to the feast of Tabernacles in the Millinnium.
Jesus told us what to do in rememberence of HIM; to eat the bread of HIS covenant!
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Because it is in eating of that bread - the bread of HIS covenant that we do abide in HIM in the MOST HOLY PLACE!!
John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
CHrist is the TABERNACLE!!!
Hebrews 9:8 ¶ the Holy Spirit this evidencing that not yet hath been manifested the way of the holy places, the first tabernacle having yet a standing;
9 which is a simile in regard to the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which are not able, in regard to conscience, to make perfect him who is serving,
10 only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances—till the time of reformation imposed upon them.
11 And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands—that is, not of this creation—
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Christ is not remembered and HIS brith not celebrated on Decemeber 25th. His Appointed time.. and there is for every thing an APPOINTED Time... CHRIST"S appointed time was and is the first day of the feast of Tabernacles, and he was circumcised on the Great Last Day of the feast on the 8th day. This is the only feast that is 8 days long.
Luke 2:21 ¶ And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
Mary could not go to Jerusalem because she was not clean
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
25 ¶ And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Why did they not just circumcise him in Bethleham? They were in Bethleham to pay their taxes, Why would a woman with new born baby travel to Jerusalem to have her child circumcised? Because this was the feast of Tabernalces and HE was to be presented to the Lord, as was Joseph. The feast of tabernacles is a pilgramage feast.
Now listen to Jesus speak himself from Jerusalem on THAT GREAT LAST DAY OF the feast of Tabernacles:
John 7:37 ¶ In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Ah, but Jesus did come out of the city of David didn't he!
That statement about living water was a statement that meant something to the Jewish people. It spoke of the living water that the High Priest used to cleanse the altar at the feast of Tabernacles. This was Jesus proclaiming himself to be the High Priest.
The cry too, when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the colt of an *** and they waved palm frauns and cried Hossanna . Save us! Is from the feast of Tabernacles - the cry of our Salavation... Hosanna in the Highest... is a cry that is shouted at the Feast of Tabernacles.
This is Tabernacles... not Christmas, and even the stones would have cried out Hosanna!
Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Matthew 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
Mark 11:9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
The stones! But not the Christians... too busy celebrating HIS birth at the wrong time of the year.
Ecclesiastes 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mark 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
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posted
I'm glad you posted this SoftTouch. I know you've struggled with this subject for a while.
It's not easy to face the truth sometimes, especially when it means giving up long-held and beloved traditions.
Bless you and your family for being willing to worship in Truth. It will be hardest for your son, I'm sure. You can tell him his "Aunt Hardcore" is proud of him.
![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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shadowmaker
Advanced Member
Member # 3696
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posted
"Jesus told us what to do in rememberence of HIM; to eat the bread of HIS covenant!"
So this is the only way Im suppose to show rememberance?
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Quote:
No the more we ask for proof that its wrong, challenge your so called reasons, the more you jump off to talking about wastewater and other junk. Youre taking scripture, parts of it, twisting it around to make it mean what you want it to mean. To try to prove to me that Im wrong. If the Bible doesnt say its wrong, its not wrong. And no where in the Bible does it say, DONT CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, nowhere.
Satan hates Christmas. It brings people to church, it spreads the gospel, it brings people to get saved, and it reminds satan of his fate. Satan will stop at nothing to put an end to it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Where do we find the Church of Acts celebrating the Birth of Messiah?
Where does our Lord Jesus admonish those who follow to go into all the world and remember His birth?
Where do the Apostles teach to remember His Birth?
The festival has now become firmly positioned within the Institutional Church as a 'Christian' celebration. In doing this, the Church has chosen to observe a celebration that is not Biblical while rejecting those celebrations that are appointed by the Lord (Leviticus 23).
Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of His time for their traditions: "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the traditions of men" (Mark 7:8). Eighteen-hundred years later, nothing had changed: "Though these two divine streams [the Bible and tradition] are in themselves, on account of their divine origin, of equal sacredness, and are both full of revealed truths, still, of the two, tradition is to us more clear and safe (Catholic Belief, 1884 edition, p. 45).
Seek the Lord and see if these things be true. You must know it in your own heart. To grab hold of the Word, and let go of tradition, is a bold step of faith. To do so, we must be sure we heard from the Lord. Then, once we hear, we must act upon it: "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin" (James 4:17).
It is time for the bride to submit to the authority of the Bridegroom.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
No the more we ask for proof that its wrong, challenge your so called reasons, the more you jump off to talking about wastewater and other junk. Youre taking scripture, parts of it, twisting it around to make it mean what you want it to mean. To try to prove to me that Im wrong. If the Bible doesnt say its wrong, its not wrong. And no where in the Bible does it say, DONT CELEBRATE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST, nowhere.
Satan hates Christmas. It brings people to church, it spreads the gospel, it brings people to get saved, and it reminds satan of his fate. Satan will stop at nothing to put an end to it.
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Is draping the Incarnation of God, placing the events surrounding the Birth of Christ upon the mound of paganism, glorifying to God?
It can be very difficult to separate wastewater and make it pure. Wastewater is 99.99% pure water. It is the contamination of the .01% which makes it unpalatable.
In the celebration of Christ's Mass there is far more than .01% which is pagan, and unpalatable to a Believer. Yet like a flock of chickens the majority runs after the idolitry of the Christ's Mass, and the more one speaks the truth, the louder they cackle.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
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The Christmas Tree: "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:3-4)
Thats referring to cutting down a tree and craving a idol out of it. Notice it says the "work of the workman, with the ax". Then they decorate it with silver and gold and worship it. I dont worship the Christmas tree.
Exodus 20:7 is saying dont use Gods name for evil purposes. Me celebrating the birth of my Lord and savior, using that time to witness to people and share the gospel is far from an evil purpose.
The pagans also prayed to many false gods, does that mean I shouldnt pray? I think not.
Do you call sunday, "sunday"? The pagans supposedly named the days of the week after the gods they worshipped.
Brad
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wparr
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BA
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT
It's NOT about the date
It's about all the pagan garbage "In The Name Of Jesus"
(Exodus 20:7)
You shall not take up the name of the LORD your God in vain (emptiness of speech, lying), for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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Jesus was probably born on the September 15, the feast of trumpets.
Lucifer-Satan then stuck his big nose in it and eventually managed to get the "official" birth of Jesus shifted over a couple of months to December 25.
what the Devil meant for bad, the LORD can still use for good in whom He wants to use it for good.
right or wrong, many people still know that the Christmas season is about this Jesus baby in Bethlehem of Judah.
right or wrong, it is still an opportunity and opportunities more so than at other times of the year, to witness here and there, more so than say, during Fourth of July Indendence Day.
when in Rome, I do as the Romans do; I am all things to all men, that perchance I may save some.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch
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I have compiled the following information from Many different sources - including a couple of posts. ~Deb
Why I no longer celebrate Christmas
More and more I am convicted in my heart that God does not approve of the “Christmas Celebration.” Please allow me to share why I’ve come to the conclusion I have. Notice what God had to say to the House Of Israel concerning the "custom" of decorating a tree:
quote:
"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:1-4).
This verses above sound an awful lot like the Christmas tree to me. For those who believe this refers to the making of a wooden idol, notice that this is Not what this passage says. “The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax” simply means he cut down the tree with the ax. I’m sure “Idol” makers used much more intricate tools to fashion their abominations.
What does God have to say about how to Honor and Worship Him?
quote:
"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:32).
Many will argue that Christmas and other ‘holidays’ which came from pagan origins are "extra-Biblical"; that, while they are not enjoined by scripture, are nevertheless harmless inventions of sincere Christians in worship of God and Christ. But God Says to rebellious mankind, "Thou shalt not add thereto" in methods of worship!
Now I know what you're thinking, that's the Old Covenant and has no bearing on me. Remember God is the same yesterday, today, and forever...so it does have a bearing on us! Remember the entire Bible constructs the entire Word of God’s Truth.
Plainly, God commanded His people Not To Copy the modes of heathen worship of the degenerate pagan nations of the world; not to adapt their ceremonies, symbols, and rituals, and call them by a different name. Yet, in disobedience to this divine command, tens of millions indulge in these non-Biblical customs. After all, we are His people too, aren’t we? We LOVE Him… shouldn’t we pay Close attention to things that anger Him?
The most common justification that one will hear regarding Christmas is that people have replaced old pagan customs and intents by asserting that they are now “focusing on Christ.” I have heard many say that they are “honoring Christ” in their Christmas-keeping. The problem is that God does not say this is acceptable to Him! Actually, He plainly commands against it:
quote:
"When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations which you are going in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, beware that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How do these nations serve their gods, that I also may do likewise?' You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it." (Deuteronomy 12:-29-32).
Most professing Christians find it difficult to accept these truths because the observance of the holidays gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling. They simply can not understand that the worship of God is not based upon feelings, but on truth. It is always important to remember that we are to worship God in "spirit and truth" - not lies (John 4:24).
Jesus Christ said, “But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). He also said: “Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9).
Many of our modern Christmas traditions began hundreds of years before Christ was born. Some of these traditions date back more than 4000 years. The addition of Christ to the celebration of the winter solstice did not occur until 300 years after Christ died and as late as 1800, some devout Christian sects, like the Puritans, forbade their members from celebrating Christmas because it was considered a pagan holiday. So what is the history behind these traditions?
What Are The Pagan Origins of Various “Christmas Traditions” ? No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, (around the Feast of Tabranacles – Sukkot) approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The Date – December 25th: Every aspect of December 25th is Pagan in origin. We must also remember that Satan's ministers are also transformed into ministers of light, as shown in 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. (Easter, Halloween and Valentines Day also had their birth and origin in utter paganism.)
“In the Roman world, the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birthdate of the Iranian mystery god Mithra[, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th Edit. Vol. II, p. 903).
The date of December 25th for celebrating Christ's Mass supposedly in honor of his birth is well known now for what it really was -- the Roman feast of Saturnalia, an extremely vile festival. The Feast Saturnalia was a celebration in honor of the Roman god, Saturn, which day coincided with the winter solstice. "December 25th was indicated on the old Roman Calendar as Dies Natalis Invicti Solis -- the Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun. The Roman church adopted that date as the birthday of Christ, blending their culture's pagan traditions with [so-called] Christianity as a way of 'converting' souls to Christ. To ancient pagan civilizations this was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a regeneration of nature.
Virtually every civilization has a fire/sun god. The Egyptians (and sometimes Romans) called him Vulcan. The Greeks named him Kronos, as did the Phoenicians—but they also called him Saturn. The Babylonians called him Tammuz (as Nimrod, resurrected in the person of his son), Molech or Baal (as did the Druids). These were all simply the various names for Nimrod. Nimrod was considered the father of all the Babylonian gods.
Child Sacrifice was a horrible practice associated with the worship of the fire god (Nimrod, Saturn, Kronos, Molech and Baal) in the following quote from The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop, page 231:
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“Now, this is in exact accordance with the character of the Great Head of the system of fire-worship. Nimrod, as the representative of the devouring fire to which human victims, and especially children, were offered in sacrifice, was regarded as the great child-devourer…he was, of course, the actual father of all the Babylonian gods; and, therefore, in that character he was afterwards universally regarded. As the Father of the gods, he was, as we have seen, called Kronos; and every one knows that the classical story of Kronos was just this, that, ‘he devoured his sons as soon as they were born.’ (Lempriere Classical Dictionary, ‘Saturn.’)…This legend has a further and deeper meaning; but, as applied to Nimrod, or ‘The Horned One,’ it just refers to the fact, that, as the representative of Moloch or Baal, infants were the most acceptable offerings at his altar. We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity. ‘The Phoenicians,’ says Eusebius, ‘every year sacrificed their beloved and only-begotten children to Kronos or Saturn.’”
Who Was Nimrod? Genesis 10:9 says of Nimrod, “He was a mighty hunter before [in place of] the LORD.” He actually tried to replace God. The famous Jewish historian, Josephus, records in Josephus Antiquities important evidence of Nimrod’s role in the post-flood world. Notice: “He also gradually changed the government into tyranny…He [Nimrod] also said he would be revenged on God, if He should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to be able to reach…Now the multitude were very ready to follow the determination of Nimrod, and to esteem it a piece of cowardice to submit to God” (Bk. I, Ch. IV, sec. 2, 3).
Under many names, mankind’s earliest and perhaps greatest rebel has been worshipped throughout false religion. Ancient Israel kept falling into serving the many false gods that Nimrod represented. Ezekiel 8:13-14 records a picture of the women of Israel “weeping for Tammuz.” This Tammuz (the god of fire) was considered to be Nimrod and the etymology of the word itself is fascinating. Tam means “to make perfect” and muz “fire.” The meaning is clear in light of what we have already learned.
Santa Claus: According to Langer’s Encyclopedia of World History, (article “Santa”), “Santa” was a common name for Nimrod throughout Asia Minor. This was also the same fire god who came down the chimneys of the ancient pagans and the same fire god to whom infants were burned and eaten in human sacrifice among those who were once God’s people.
The name 'Santa Claus' is believed to be a corruption of the Dutch 'Sant Nikolaas' (Sant-Ni-Klaus). St. Nicholas (as he was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church) was made bishop of Myra because of his reputed piety. He was believed to have venerated the Christ-child and practiced the child-like virtues of meekness and humility. Legend has it that he gave aid to the poor, always providing his gifts anonymously. In memory of his generosity mothers would hide gifts for their children and tell them they were left by St. Nicholas.
Santa Claus comes from “Saint Nicholas.” Washington Irving, in 1809, is responsible for remaking the original old, stern bishop of this same name into the new “jolly St. Nick” in his Knickerbocker History of New York. “Old Nick” has long been recognized as a term for the devil.
In Revelation 2:6 and 15, we read about a “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes,” which Christ twice tells His Church “[He] hates.” Let’s analyze the word Nicolaitane. It means “follower of Nicholas.” Nikos means “conqueror, destroyer.” Laos means, “people.” Nicolaitanes, then, are people who follow the conqueror or destroyer—Nimrod. If you have believed that following Christmas is an innocent Christian custom, let this truth sink in!
The legends of St. Nicholas also bear many similarities to those of the ancient Egyptian god Bes, a rotund, gnome-like personage who was the patron of little children."(1) Bes was the god of war, slaughter, music and dance and childbirth, but was also supposed to be the protector of children. Among other things, his symbols included bells and drums. Bes was usually "Depicted as a bearded savage-looking yet comical dwarf, shown full-face in images (highly unusual by Egpytian artistic conventions). Revered as a deity of household pleasures such as music, good food, and relaxtion. Also a protector and entertainer of children. However, many texts point to the idea that Bes was a terrible avenging deity, who was as swift to punish the wicked as he was to amuse and delight the righteous." One source claimed that Bes was Babylionian in origin.
To complete the description of Santa Claus, we find that "Many pagan societies have worshipped a hearth god, clad in red, who came down the chimney to bless those who pleased him and to curse those who didn't. Food and drink offerings were left for him on hearth or mantel, an effort to please and appease him. There are such red-clad hearth gods worshipped in India and China today."(3) Tiawan's hearth god is said to return to heaven to report on the affairs of men on the 24th day of the 12th lunar month. This is reminiscent the scripture regarding Israel's apostasy in these things: Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. This verse covers a multitude of evils from egg nog to Christmas cookies, but it also fits the sacrifices left out for the Old Nick, otherwise known as St. Nicholas or Santa Claus. Leaving these offering under the "Christmas tree" has even more significance when we read in Ezekiel 6:13 that they offered sweet savours to their idols under every green tree.
Added to this is another horrible fact: "It would surprise many to learn that even the name 'Christ Child' has been given to this pagan deity under the name 'Kriss Kringle' (a corruption of the German 'Christ Kindl'). This has to be one of the most subtle of Satan's blasphemies, yet most Christians are unaware of it." (1) So, not only is the Egyptian god, Bes, and the Babylonian god Nimrod being promoted as a saint; he is even given the name of Christ! Again the blasphemy is unavoidable!
The Christmas Tree: "For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not" (Jeremiah 10:3-4)
The following demonstrates what the Babylonians believe about the origin of the Christmas tree: “An old Babylonish fable told of an evergreen tree which sprang out of a dead tree stump. The old stump symbolized the dead Nimrod, the new evergreen tree symbolized that Nimrod had come to life again in Tammuz! (Note from Debbie: It was Nimrods wife Semarimus (also known as Isis) who commanded the tree be cut down and decked as the above Bible verse states. She also took on herself the name of “Queen of Heaven” and declared her son Tammuz to be the risen Nimrod (sungod) – among other abominations.) Among the Druids the oak was sacred, among the Egyptians it was the palm, and in Rome it was the fir, which was decorated with red berries during the Saturnalia!” (Walsh, Curiosities of Popular Customs, p. 242).
The Christmas tree is derived from several solstice traditions. The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and placed candles in live trees to decorate for the celebration of Saturnalia. In Scandinavia, they hung apples from evergreen trees at the winder solstice to remind themselves that spring and summer will come again. The evergreen tree was the special plant of their sun god, Baldor.
Exchanging Gifts: The practice of exchanging gifts at a winter celebration is also pre-Christian and is from the Roman Saturnalia. They would exchange good-luck gifts called Stenae (lucky fruits). They also would have a big feast just like we do today.
Misletoe: Mistletoe is from an ancient Druid custom at the winter solstice. Mistletoe was considered a divine plant and it symbolized love and peace. The tradition of kissing under the mistletoe is Druid in origin.
Christmas Caroling: In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
Yule Log: The Yule Log tradition comes to us from Scandinavia, where the pagan sex and fertility god Jul, or Jule (pronounced 'yule'), was honored in a twelve-day celebration in December. A large, single log (generally considered to have been a phallic idol) was kept with a fire against it for twelve days, a different sacrifice to Jul being offered in the fire on each of the twelve days."(1) "The Yule log was originally an entire tree, carefully chosen, and brought into the house with great ceremony. The **** end would be placed into the hearth while the rest of the tree stuck out into the room. The tree would be slowly fed into the fire and the entire process was carefully timed to last the entire Yule season." (2) This is where the Twelve Days of Christmas originated, which are now counted as the twelve days between "Christmas" and Epiphany (January 12th).
"Yuletide, meaning the turning of the sun or the winter solstice, has traditionally been a time of extreme importance in Scandinavia - a time when fortunes for the coming year were determined and when the dead were thought to walk the earth. For a long time, it was considered dangerous to sleep alone on Christmas Eve. The extended family, master and servant alike, would sleep together on a freshly spread bed of straw. "(2)
Using logs to decorate or shape cakes after, giving yuletide greetings, and any recognition of the Twelve Days of Christmas or Twelfth night; is giving credit to this vile phallic worship of Scandinavia's past. Yuletide is also observed by witches today as one of their main high days, so if you are "celebrating" you are doing so with witches.
The Norse also sacrificed a boar to their god Freyr during yuletide. It is thought that this is probably where the English tradition of serving boar's head at "Christmas" came from.
When considering these Historical truths I had to Honestly ask myself… “Do I Love God and wish to Honor him? Or do I love the traditions I’ve been brought up with? Which is more important?
So What Is THE Truth?
The seven annual Holy Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23) were created in the mind and heart of God. The Bible tells us that Jesus "was slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8 ). The plan of salvation of the human race was conceived before the creation of mankind. God's Holy Days were revealed to mankind by the very mouth of God. They are not imaginations conceived in the mind of the devil and sinful man. They are a memorial given to mankind that commemorates the love that God and Jesus Christ have for us. These days teach and remind us of the love, pain and suffering that God and Jesus endured in order to redeem the human race. Every Holy Day God set is a picture of Jesus Christ and is a celebration of Him.
The prophet Zechariah gives us some insight into the meaning of the Feasts of God:
quote:
" And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles " (Zechariah 14:16).
The word “keep” literally means to celebrate, dance and reel to and fro. The word “worship” means to bow down to, to prostrate oneself. Therefore, we are being taught that the Feasts of God are a time to celebrate, to dance, and to fall down and worship God and Christ. But what is it that we are celebrating? We are celebrating the works of Christ, not our works. Jesus said that we are to keep HIS WORKS:
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" And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations " (Rev. 2:26).
The Feasts of God celebrate the WORKS OF JESUS. They are a commemoration of the sufferings and sacrifices that our Lord Jesus and God have made for us. Jesus was our sacrificial Passover Lamb. Jesus made us unleavened and without sin before God. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. Jesus will return, resurrect the first fruits, conquer the nations, and set up the Kingdom of God on earth. Jesus will rein for a thousand years in the millennium. Jesus will raise all mankind for the Great Day of Judgment. It is HIS WORKS that we acknowledge by CELEBRATING OF THE FEASTS OF GOD.
Without Jesus, the Holy Days lack significance. Jesus breathes life into them. He is the light and express image of the Holy Days that were revealed in the Old Testament. The appearance of Jesus did not eliminate them, but rather illuminated them. When the True Light appeared, the reflection was glorified by the Light, not diminished by the Light.
It is the works of Jesus that has made us "complete in Him" (Col. 2:10). It is the works of Jesus that has "perfected us forever" (Heb. 10:14). It is the works of Jesus that has made us "the righteousness of God " (1 Cor. 5:21).
And then there is The feast of Hanukkah - the Festival of Lights, or Feast of Dedication as it is called in John 10:22. This is not a feast commanded by God in the Old Testament, but a celebration of a miracle without which Messiah would not have been born, as the Jewish race would have been wipped out. On this occasion, Jewish children lit candles, sang hymns and gave gifts to celebrate a genuine miracle which occurred with the Temple Menorah (or 7-branched lamp-stand) in 165 BC. Now the early Christians were nearly all Jewish and the other Festivals were linked with Messiah's ministry rather than his birth (but notice it was the Festivals God Ordained that they celebrated). It seemed the natural occasion to commemorate the birth of Messiah who had come to be the Light of the World [Jn 8:2), and who admonished His followers to have their Lamps trimmed and burning as they waited for Him to Return (Matthew 25). The Feast of Hanukkah usually falls sometime in December (the Jewish calander is different from ours and dates change year to year).
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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