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Topic: Kenneth Copeland
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WhiteEagle
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posted
If these prophets are not of God, then they will come to nothing.
Linda I'm going to start a new topic about the 7 churches on the Bible studies forum. I'll continue with Sardis, as that was the one we were discussing, even though it's not first, if there's any other interest I can go back to the beginning of Revelation's letters to the churches.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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bygrace
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That's right Betty!
Even a broken clock is right twice a day...
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Can something good come from a false prophet? Bear in mind, God used a donkey once. NO I am not comparing the two except that just because a false prophet says one or two correct things does not make them good.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
I never would have grown in Christ without listening to Copeland for a period of time, his preaching gave me a new hope.
I assure you that if you are born again this is not true. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith and you would have grown in Christ, because Christ lives in you and is your hope.
quote:
Also Joyce Meyer is great for practical Christianity, she been through tough times and God uses her to reach the hurting people from abusive parents and abusive people, and gives people a hope, that God is real.
Joyce Meyer has a very encouraging testimony that gives hope. Sadly, the love of mammon has come make her double minded, that on one hand she teaches something good and on the other she teaches that the reward we are promised for faithfulness comes in the form of corruptible wordily riches.
If a message is a message that is true to God's word, it is applicable whether it is spoken to the mother who's child eats from a garbage dump in Haiti or the CEO of Revlon, or the farmer's wife in Iowa. This is not so of too many of the messages she teaches in my opinion.
quote:
Sardis is all about their works. Not the Christ in me works. That is why their works are not acceptable and why they are dead. They appear on the outside to be a Good lively Christian. They have all their doctrine all lined up and filed and categorized. They know when someone else sins, and they know all the "don'ts". They think they know God's mind. They are busy with Their works.
I think this adds more to the scripture than is supported by the scripture.
Revelation 3"1 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
These are Christians in name. We call them today nominal Christians - Christians in name, but not born again. Thus they are dead in sin.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I agree with you that they are not the works of Christ working in them - these are like the plant that grew but did not set down roots that would anchor it - in the parable of the sower; only the works that come from the abiding in the vine are HIS works and only they are perfect.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
This tells me that those that are called to repent have defiled their garments and are living in sin. It is sin that defiles our garments. If they as you have said, all their doctrine all lined up and filed and categorized. They know when someone else sins, and they know all the "don'ts". They would not likely have defiled their garments.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
There is nothing in this text to say that they "appear on the outside to be a Good lively Christian" it says they have a name that lives - the name of Christ. It says nothing about they appear except that it implies that they appear in defiled garments.
There is nothing in the text to say that "They have all their doctrine all lined up and filed and categorized" - infact the context implies otherwise
There is nothing in the text to say that they "They know when someone else sins, and they know all the "don'ts"."
There is nothing in the text to suggest this "They think they know God's mind." except perhaps that they have the name "Christian"
There is nothing in the text to substantiate this "They are busy with Their works." Only that they have works and those works are not perfect before God. This is not the only church that had works.
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Traditional staid and stiff religion of the 1950's is what brought our country to the state it's in now........If the Church of the 1950's was so Godly and righteous, then why did America start going down hill after the 1950's. The 1960's shouldn't have happened if the generation before had really been following God.
I am not sure who has spoken of the church of the 50's but it surely was not staid and stiff religion that brought this country to the state it is in now. It is Satan that has brought this country to where it is now. It is the rebellion of men against God and against HIS righteousness that has brought this country to where it is now.
America home of the free and the brave and the proud; America where the American dream is to own a home. America where we pursue life and liberty and happiness.
The Kingdom of God home of the free from sin, the weak, and the humble; where the Kingdom Dream is the Return of Christ when every knee shall bow; The Kingdom of God where we pursue,death that we no longer live but he lives in us, we pursue HIS righteousness, HIS image, HIS will; HIS yoke; HIS Righteousness, and peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.
This country is in this shape because the want of man is the American Dream and the want of God is the later; until man learns to want what God wants this country will continue its downward spiral until God has had enough of it and brings judgment on it and delivers it to the hand of its enemies.
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Having faith in God's Word and believing the actual intent and meaning of God's Word is not Witchcraft.
At least we agree on something! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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becauseHElives
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White eagle and HisGrace,
MIRICLE ARE HAPPENING EVRY WHERE, BUT VERY FEW IN America. and none by Kenneth Copland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Myers, and that crowd
get them to document one miracle that they were a part of. not a head ache, or lengthening a leg, I am talking about one child or grown up blind, deaf or paralyzed from birth, they should have just one they can point two , most of them have been around for 20 + years.
They can't its all hype, they are frauds, its all a type of mass hypnotics
The real is out there Yeshua does have a Church, a bride without spot are wrinkle
To bad you can not see it,
Lord open their eyes, let them see
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WhiteEagle
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Linda,
I never would have grown in Christ without listening to Copeland for a period of time, his preaching gave me a new hope. Traditional staid and stiff religion of the 1950's is what brought our country to the state it's in now.
Also Joyce Meyer is great for practical Christanity, she been through tough times and God uses her to reach the hurting people from abusive parents and abusive people, and gives people a hope, that God is real.
It's sad to know that many people do not understand them. Even other Christians.
In Revelation Jesus talks to the Church of Sardis:
Rev. 3:1-3
Unto the angel of the church at Sardis write: These things saith He that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: "I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou liveth, and art dead.Be watchful and strengthen the things which remain, that ARE ready to die." "For I have not found thy works perfect before God." Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard and hold fast and repent."
What does Jesus mean He knows Their Works? Is it because they forgot this:
Galations 2:20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith of the Son of God, who lived me, and gave Himself for me."
Sardis is all about their works. Not the Christ in me works. That is why their works are not acceptable and why they are dead. They appear on the outside to be a Good lively Christian. They have all their doctrine all lined up and filed and catagorized. They know when someone else sins, and they know all the "don'ts". They think they know God's mind. They are busy with Their works.
This is why the general Church in America sees no miracles. They are dead.
If the Church of the 1950's was so Godly and righteous, then why did America start going down hill after the 1950's. The 1960's shouldn't have happened if the generation before had really been following God.
Having faith in God's Word and believing the actual intent and meaning of God's Word is not Witchcraft.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Missionaries in foreign countries have witnessed first hand miracles that we will probably never see in the US. A pastor I know smuggled 500 Bibles into China. The police who did road checks looked in her vehicle and never saw all the Bibles. She could have spent a very long time in a Chinese jail had this obvious sight been seen by the officials.
WhiteEagle that reminds me of Corrie ten Boom's the Hiding Place. She and her family hid many Jews in their home in Holland during the Second World War.
Anyway, she and her sister Betsie ended up in Ravensbruck concentration camp. They were going through a line where prison guards were examining each prisoner. Corrie had a Bible tucked under her thin dress and it bulged out quite prominently.
In her words." As we trooped back out through the shower room door, the SS. men ran their hands over every prisoner, front, back and sides. The woman ahead of me was searched three times. Behind me Betsie was searched, No hand touched me."
They went through the same ordeal through another exit and she was shoved roughly through by the shoulder, with "Move along - you're holding up the line." They never spotted the Bible.
Hallelujah. God is so great!! ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hi WhiteEagle: I thought you should know that if I avoid any it would be because I believe the situation to be this as is described in this verse:
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Not at all like what Pilate did.
I also agree that there are greater miracles than Jesus did that should be following all of us, and yet we really do not see this here in the west, and yet we do indeed see it in other places as you have noted. I believe that we will see it if we every come to understand assembling in our local congregations as the church of the apostles was taught. At this point, I do not see this in the church as it exists today in the west and I in no way see it in the Copelands or any of the many WOF teachers that are on TV today.
I could preach for hours that I dont have on why we dont see this great power of the Spirit in the western church, but I wont (every one shout yahoo!).
I will just summarize to say that I believe that until we learn what it means to be a body fitly joined together in which every joint is supplied we will not see this power and we will not walk in the power and the freedom that is ours bought and paid for. These preachers do not teach assembly and their methods do not support assembling. Christ is building a church - a body and a church that is a body does not have disjointed parts - the christian that is not part of the assembly is never going to be a victorious Christian as body parts have no effectual working power that is apart from their being fitly joined to the rest of a body. These people in my opinon promote something that cannot be accomplished God's way and thus, what must happen is the perversion of word so that what is taught is the power of men and man's ability to manifest what he can imagine - this is called faith and it is not faith - it is witchcraft and it is idolatry and yes it produces works and it produces product but they are not God's work and not God's product - God is building a church and a body.
The power of the tongues of men is seen at Bable where the language was common and all that the MIND of MAN could imagine, man could accomplish; this is not a new teaching that WOF teaches, it is a teaching that is as old as Nimrod.
The power of faith is the power of God that creates what God wills and wants and changes man to will and want what God wills and wants.
Relabeling witcraft and calling it fatih does not faith make.
Frankly at this point, for me any man that does not understand God enough to understand that all the power that was needed to defeat sin and death was had in the sinless flesh of Christ or does not know that God manifest in the flesh did not have to battle Satan for the keys to anything, but had full authority over Satan and every demon and all sin and death at the very moment that he entered the grave, then he is not capable of teaching faith or anything else of God in my opinion because he does not know the God that I know and he does not serve the Jesus that I serve.
Some of you are able to excuse this, and say that we do not know what happened those three days so of you do not consider this blasphemy. This is between you and God. I can respect that; but I cannot accept it as being sound doctrine or agreeing with scripture. I cannot view it as anything less than blasphemy and denial of Christ while preaching Christ on the part of Copeland; it makes him to me to be preaching another Christ and not the Christ that is God manifest in the Flesh.
God is a sovereign God; He is now and has always been in control; the plan of salvation for man was not something HE thought up in reaction to Satan's sin, it is a plan that was his before Satan was ever created. He cares more about the souls of men than their having all the world's goods, and all the worldly happiness they can imagine, and all their worldly desires satisfied.
He does not desire this body of flesh where sin resides to be free of all illness and sickness and disease, if it were it would never die and you would never be free of it. this body is a seed to be sown in corruption and raised in incorruption.
Yes indeed we are now healed by his stripes but that is a healing that means whole and complete and we are whole and complete because we are not our flesh, we are new creatures born of spirit and currently residing in vessels that are intended to return to the dust of the earth.
We are victorious now, because we are born again not of water but of SPIRIT and we do not have to walk after the flesh though we walk in the flesh; we can have peace joy and power in the Holy Ghost whether our flesh is being eaten alive by cancer or burned at the stake or is sitting on the beach of St Croix basking in the sun and smelling the salt air.
If this is not the picture of our walk in this life then we might ask why it is not.
1 Corinthians 6:1-10 ¶ We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in aflictions, in necessities, in distresses,In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
I just do not hear this preached by WOF. Maybe some part of it in one sermon here or there, but as a doctrine - no. The preachers of WOF movement are double minded and their teaching are unstable - one moment good and truth and the next lie and blasphemy.
We have to make the tree good or evil, it cannot be both.
Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Some of you have made the tree good and this is between you and God; but I cannot make the tree good without calling evil good and so I make the tree evil.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
hisgrace You really don't give up.
If you believe these charlatians so be it.
I am going to do what Linda is doing. I am going to avoid you from now on.
Called shaking the dust, no more will I cast my pearls be for swine.
Washing my hands, giving it all to God.
I am sorry for you and the others.... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
"And they reasoned that it would be better to kill one man, then let a whole nation suffer."
I THINK PILATE ALSO WASHED HIS HANDS.
How do you interpret the verse that HisGrace wrote about Jesus followers doing greater works, because He goes to be with the Father?
Missionaries in foreign countries have witnessed first hand miracles that we will probably never see in the US. A pastor I know smuggled 500 Bibles into China. The police who did road checks looked in her vehicle and never saw all the Bibles. She could have spent a very long time in a Chinese jail had this obvious sight been seen by the officials.
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Watcher
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hisgrace You really don't give up.
If you believe these charlatians so be it.
I am going to do what Linda is doing. I am going to avoid you from now on.
Called shaking the dust, no more will I cast my pearls be for swine.
Washing my hands, giving it all to God.
I am sorry for you and the others....
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
His big promotion is that we are on equal footing with the Lord.
John 14:12 "The truth is, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father
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BORN AGAIN
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hardcore responds to BORN AGAIN quote:
I see what you're saying, and to some extent I suppose it's true. Seems like this line of reasoning could lead to a spiritual laziness of sorts?
Re the bolded part, probably not; those who have tasted of the LORD will be hungry for more. quote:
I believe that each of us is responsible for knowing God's Word well enough not to be fooled by the wolves. We're told this over and over and over again, so I don't think it's a matter of "but whatever Christians are NOT able to do, ....". We're all able, but not everyone "does". They'd rather be lazy and let some tv preacher tell them what to think. Know what I mean?
On the other hand I could say that, because they ARE lazy (people who are lazy have a hard time "undoing their lazy", just like any other sin), I could say that they are therefore UNABLE to do what the Biblical standard asks them to do. All they can do is listen to preachers.
Additionally, it would not surprise me if many fathers and mothers are so harried by their worklife and their homelife with the kids that the best they can do by then is "listen to some preacher", believe the basics, and leave the rest.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
I tend to think that God will take what He can get out of His Christian co-laborers, hand out some rewards to His best workers, but whatever Christians are NOT able to do, God will handle the rest with mercy now that justice has been paid for by the cross of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are laborers together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.
What we do not accomplish, being sinful co-laborers but who are listening (hopefully) to what the Holy Spirit is saying inside of us now, God will take what He can get from His co-laborers, and God will take care of the rest with His mercy. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
I see what you're saying, and to some extent I suppose it's true. Seems like this line of reasoning could lead to a spiritual laziness of sorts?
I believe that each of us is responsible for knowing God's Word well enough not to be fooled by the wolves. We're told this over and over and over again, so I don't think it's a matter of "but whatever Christians are NOT able to do, ....". We're all able, but not everyone "does". They'd rather be lazy and let some tv preacher tell them what to think. Know what I mean?
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BORN AGAIN
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I tend to think that God will take what He can get out of His Christian co-laborers, hand out some rewards to His best workers, but whatever Christians are NOT able to do, God will handle the rest with mercy now that justice has been paid for by the cross of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are laborers together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.
What we do not accomplish, being sinful co-laborers but who are listening (hopefully) to what the Holy Spirit is saying inside of us now, God will take what He can get from His co-laborers, and God will take care of the rest with His mercy.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
The temptation to almost "make something up" to keep the sheep going for one more week must be great, just to pay the bills and to "keep everybody employed."
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, I am BORN AGAIN by the
I have no doubt that this might be true. But is it an excuse? When a preacher refuses to preach sin and repentance, should we just say "Oh well, it's okay. He's under a lot of pressure".
Personally, I don't think so. Preachers and teachers who claim to be men or women of God are to be held to a higher standard and are seriously accountable for their words. Isn't it in 1Timothy where Paul lays out some guidelines on this?
Having said that, I also think that each believer has just as serious an obligation to dig into the Word and know it for themselves - a concept that seems all but forgotten. I mean, if Gloria Copeland or Joel Osteen says it, then it must be true, right? They sound spiritual and they give to charities and they tell me that God wants me to be rich, soooo ....I think I'll listen to them instead of seeing what God really has to say.
Could this be why we're told this?
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
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BORN AGAIN
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What about this? It cannot be easy to end up gradually with a huge ministry with a multi-million budget, and then having to "come up with something new from the Bible for the sheep to feed on." Hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills are coming due each week.
The temptation to almost "make something up" to keep the sheep going for one more week must be great, just to pay the bills and to "keep everybody employed."
It is hard enough for me by myself to come up with a rhema word from the Bible for myself, let alone for tens of thousands of sheep who are too lazy to read the Word of God for themselves--but in the case of the Copelands and many like them, preachers like the Copelands made it "fashionable" to bring our own Bibles to the meeting and that was a historic accomplishment.
Each history is tainted with some self because we are not in a first or second Adam body...not yet, so we can only appeal to God's MERCY at this point!.
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, I am BORN AGAIN by the
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Watcher,
Being disabled, I can tell you personally how it hurts for someone to tell me that it is lack of faith on my part for my disability. My granny who had this same disease was one of the greatest prayer warriors I ever knew.
Another thing that gets me is the implications some make that your pocket book is an indicator of your spiritual life. Some of the most spiritual people I have known were quite poor by man’s views. On the other hand, a realitve who is quite blessed finacally, but he has stayed a baby Christian all his life. He is the time that resents any kind of instruction even from his Pastor.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Watcher
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I have grave concerns about the Third Wave, Word of Faith teachings and how they might lead believers astray. Not all believers are blessed with health and wealth, for whatever reasons the Lord has chosen, and to teach people that they are "lesser Christians" or of "lesser faith" because of their circumstances can (and does) do more damage than good to the body of Christ.
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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HisGrace
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It is beautiful to know that we are joint heirs with Jesus. What belongs to him, is equally available to us.
John 6:56 All who eat my flesh and drink my blood remain in me, and I in them.
Romans 8: 15-17
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory
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HisGrace
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I got this from Kenneth Copelands's own site regarding salvation, unretouched and untwisted.
It is very long so for now, I will just post this portion. May post more later.
Being in Christ
You are a complete and total individual. There has never been, and never will be, another person just like you. When you received Jesus as Lord, God brought you into existence by His creative power. You were born of the Spirit of God. A seed was sown in your heart - the incorruptible seed of God's Word - and you were placed in Christ Jesus.
You need to know and understand the reality of being in Christ. It is an outstanding revelation from God's Word that will affect your thinking, your believing, your actions, and your speech.
Ephesians 2:13 says, "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." When? NOW. When are you in Christ Jesus? The moment you make Jesus your Lord.
Who is in Christ Jesus? Ephesians 1:10 says, "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him." So it's not just those who have died and gone to heaven who are in Christ Jesus. This scripture says, "...all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him." The 13th verse says, "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
The most effective way that I have found to develop the reality of being in Christ is to begin with the Book of Romans and search through all the letters of the New Testament for the phrase, in Christ. For example, as we have read in 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature." Scriptures that refer to being "in Christ," "in Him," or "in whom" occur 134 times in the Bible. Find those scriptures and read them carefully. Study them and run cross-references on them. You can be sure that whatever the Word says about being "in Christ," it belongs to you because you are in Christ Jesus.
Being in Christ means that you are "the saved." Why? Because you have confessed with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and have believed in your heart that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9).
The Bible says that God sent Jesus that He might become the first born of many brethren (Romans 8:29). God planted the seed of His Son, Jesus, in order to get a harvest; and He reaps that harvest as new souls are added to the kingdom of God. The hundredfold principle is now in operation.
You are called a joint-heir with Christ Jesus. The Word says that when you made Jesus your Lord, you became one spirit with Him. You are in Him. God sees you in Jesus. He not only came inside you, but you went inside Him.
We have preached that Jesus comes inside a person, but we have thought very little of the fact that we have entered into Him. You are the body of Christ. Jesus said, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you" (John 15:7). You are abiding in Him.
Ephesians 1:4 says, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love...." You are holy and without blame before Him in love. Jesus provided for you that God is your own heavenly Father. You are no longer without hope and without God in the world (Ephesians 2:12). You have been accepted in the beloved (Ephesians 1:6). The epistle that Paul wrote to the Ephesians was written to you as well because you are in Christ Jesus. It's a letter from God to you saying, "I have accepted you in My Son. You are in the beloved. You are Mine."
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Caretaker
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Acts 2:
22: Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23: Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24: Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
You should check your translation of God's Word.
Also check the non-Biblical teachings of the WOF apostles.
http://www.discernment.org/jesus.htm
Another interesting question is where do they get any Scriptural basis for teaching that Satan is in hell? Also, what is their justification for teaching that Satan rules in hell with his demon forces? Kenyon/Hagin/Copeland/et. al teach that Satan and demons tormented Jesus for three days, so to them, Satan has such authority. The fact is the Bible does not place Satan in hell at any point prior to his final judgment and being cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). The Bible never shows Satan or demons to have any authority in hell whatsoever. They fallen creatures are never seen as punishing the wicked in hell. This entire aspect of the doctrine is myth and it is not even extra-Biblical it is totally non-Biblical. Yet it is taught and preached as divine revelation to multitudes who swallow-and-follow this pernicious lie.
The Born-Again Jesus:
As cited above the WOF doctrine teaches that Jesus had to be born-again. They take for Biblical proof these texts:
Col. 1:18
He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first-born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything.
Hebrews 1:5-6
For to which of the angels did He ever say, "Thou art My Son, Today I have begotten Thee"? And again, "I will be a Father to Him And He shall be a Son to Me"? And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."
All that Colossians teaches is that Jesus Christ has preeminence over all existence. It in no way indicates that Jesus Christ was at any point a created being (as the Jehovah Witnesses would have us believe, and I suppose the WOF teachers as well).
"That in all things he might have the preeminence (hina genetai en pasin autos proteuon). Purpose clause with hina and the second aorist middle subjunctive of ginomai, "that he himself in all things (material and spiritual) may come to (genetai, not ei, be) hold the first place" (proteuon, present active participle of proteuo, old verb, to hold the first place, here only in the N.T.). Christ is first with Paul in time and in rank. See Rev. 1:5 for this same use of prototokos with ton nekron (the dead)."(9)
For the WOF teacher the "today I have begotten Thee" of Hebrews 1:5 refers to when the Father begot Jesus again in hell.
Benny Hinn says it this way- ". . .He was begotten. Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don't let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. . .He was reborn. He had to be reborn. . .If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn."(10)
The early Church Fathers have understood this passage and others like it to refer to the fact of the Son being eternally begotten of the Father versus being re-born in hell.
"And Again when He brings the firstborn into the world" has nothing to do with Jesus being born-again and brought into the world from hell. The text simply does not teach this.
"And when he again bringeth in (hotan de palin eisagagei). Indefinite temporal clause with hotanand second aorist active subjunctive of eisago. If palin is taken with eisagagei, the reference is to the Second Coming as in Hebrews 9:28. If palin merely introduces another quotation (Psalm 97:7) parallel to kai palin in Hebrews 1:5, the reference is to the incarnation when the angels did worship the Child Jesus (Luke 2:13-14). There is no way to decide certainly about it."(11)
Jesus was not ever "born-again." He was without sin, the spotless sacrifice, He never became sin, He was never "lost." From the beginning the Church has regarded such teaching as damnable heresy and it still is.
What does the Bible Say?
The Scriptures teaches that our sin was imputed to Christ (Isa. 53:4,5) and His righteousness was imputed to us (2 Cor. 5:21). In this sense we have true identification. The redemptive work was done on the cross, not in hell.
Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Col. 1:22
yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
Col. 2:15
When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
In His teaching regarding His forthcoming death the Lord Jesus stresses two elements, both physical in regards to the coming New Covenant. He stresses His body, as symbolized in the bread and His blood, as shown in the wine. He says nothing about spiritual death.
Jesus never went and suffered in hell under the torments of Satan. In fact, He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Jesus in paradise that very day (Lk. 23:43).
On the cross some of His last words were "Father into Your hands I commit My spirit" (Lk. 23:46).
Colossians 2:15 makes it very clear that Jesus won the victory for the redeemed on the cross. It was there that He made an open show, or public display, and triumphed over the rulers and authorities.
The victory for our redemption was won by Christ on the cross. To preach otherwise is to proclaim a different gospel which the apostle Paul warned us would happen and he also declared what would happen to such who do so-
2 Cor. 11:4
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Jesus was never born again even once, because he never sinned and did not need redemption like us. Copeland confuses two completely different concepts of "born again" and "Christ the firstborn from the dead".
Acts 2:23-24
This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death, And God raised him UP AGAIN putting on end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for him to be held in its power.
He died in the flesh and was raised up again in a new spiritual re-birth - born again.
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Caretaker
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born-again
adj
1. Filled with a new spiritual life; converted or reconverted, especially to a fundamentalist or evangelical Christian faith.
2. colloq
Showing a new and passionate enthusiasm for some particular cause, activity or lifestyle, etc.
Example: a born-again vegetarian
Etymology: 1960s from the biblical passage (John 3) in which Jesus states that noone can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Caretaker
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Was Jesus Born Again?
Frederick Price - He was born again in the pit of hell. He became the first man to be born again.
Benny Hinn declared that he was receiving a direct revelation of the Holy Spirit. "Jesus is in hell. The Bible says He was begotten. You know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don't let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. He had to be reborn. If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn. Jesus was born again."
Kenneth Hagan
"Why did He [Jesus] need to be begotten or born again? Because He became like we were - separated from God. Because he tasted spiritual death for every man and because his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's talking about spiritual death. Jesus was the first born again man. Why did his spirit need to be born again, because it was estranged from God."
Kenneth Copeland - The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your traditions trip you up. A twice born man whipped satan in his own domain. You are the very image and copy of that one [Jesus Christ]. I said, 'You aren't trying to tell me that I could have done the same thing?' He said, Oh yeah. If you had the knowledge of the word of God, you could have done the same thing that He did.
When someone claims that Jesus is the first born again man, it is clear that they do not understand scripture. Jesus cannot be born again because He cannot sin. To be begotten does not mean to be reborn. Begotten comes from the Greek word ‘monogenes’ which literally means, single of its kind. This is a term used only to refer to sons or daughters. Simply put, it means to have a child that is yours as opposed to adopting a child. If we compare this our place as children of God we see a big difference. We are called adopted children. We are called children of adoption in Romans 8:15, 23; Romans 9:4, Galatians 4:5, and Ephesians 1:5.
The Bible compares our adoption to the legal adoption of that time. In Roman law a son or daughter inherited the same legal right as a natural son. As a child, there was no legal distinction between the two. When we compare this to Christ, we are called joint heirs together with Him. We are not as He is, but we are partakers in His kingdom. We don’t become a god, nor does He descend to the same level as man. It is a legal inheritance that God has given to us as a promise. We know that Jesus was veiled in His glory and the Bible tells us that He will return as King of kings and Lord of Lords. Every knee will bow in heaven, earth and under the earth. No exclusions. Even Satan will bow. So we know that it is the promise of our inheritance that we share with Christ, not His Godhead.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Jesus did not need to be "born again", which is what is being taught, and defended:
When Jesus walked on this earth, he humbly became as man in every area, even though he never sinned. On the cross he bore all of our sins. He defeated sin on the cross. That's a symbol of our being born again - once again showing how Jesus, with his endless grace and mercy, was willing to become as man.
Like Jesus, we too have defeated sin by going to the cross - born again.
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Caretaker
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It is far different being the firstborn, being the preeminant, and saying that Christ was the first "born again".
Jesus did not need to be "born again", which is what is being taught, and defended:
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They thought they knew God...they thought they were righteous....The truth Jesus spoke to them proved there foolishness.....Im not here to defend Ken Copeland nor anyone else....but rather to defend the truth...I will use just 2 examples...Ken says Jesus was the 1st Born Again man...He is correct...Question...if you know Romans you will understand this...Can righteousness come by the Law?
Yes it can....God did not give the Law for us to obey....think about it...God already knew we were imperfect....so how could a perfect Law change an imperfect man? It cannot! And God knew this...and for this reason God gave us the Law not to obey it but rather to strenghten sin against us! What you say....yes knowing this we would then realize we needed a Savior.....Why else would God give us a Law that He already knew we could not keep. To drive us to Jesus....So then who fulfilled the Law perfectly....none of us ever have or ever will...Jesus did....He fulfilled the Law perfectly
so Salvation came to Jesus by the Law...Hmmmm so then by Faith in believing in Christ His righteousness is imparted to us.His righteousness by fulfiling the Law.
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Heb. 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." -John 3:1-7
Col. 2:
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
I know that Gloria Copeland believes the above two things and she believes a lot more than that, some of it is questionable, but most of what Gloria has built onto the foundation of Jesus Christ is precious jewels, silver, and gold; but like all of us, she has some wood, hay and stubble too. But who doesn't? So she is a good Christian.
Amen!! I wish people would just really listen to these preachers, without paying attention to what others say and judging them with pre-conceived personal attacks by calling them boneheads and thinking they smile too much.
Sometimes I find a sermon boring, but one word will be said that really hits home and there is a message in there for me personally.
quote:
From Caretaker- Jesus was never born again even once, because he never sinned and did not need redemption like us. Copeland confuses two completely different concepts of "born again" and "Christ the firstborn from the dead".
"Christ the firstborn from the dead" means that Jesus was the first fleshly body that defeated death/sin on the cross.
When we become born again we nail all of the sins of these fleshly bodies to the cross.
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Caretaker
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Jesus was never born again even once, because he never sinned and did not need redemption like us. Copeland confuses two completely different concepts of "born again" and "Christ the firstborn from the dead".
Righteous judgement
Matt. 7:
15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26: And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
2 Peter 2:
1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2: And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb *** speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
1 Cor. 5:
9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
1 Cor. 2:
9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
2 Timothy 3:
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Main Entry: doc•trine
Pronunciation: 'däk-tr&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations
Main Entry: re•proof
Pronunciation: ri-'prüf
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English reprof, from Middle French reprove, from Old French, from reprover
: criticism for a fault : REBUKE
Main Entry: 1re•buke
Pronunciation: ri-'byük
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): re•buked; re•buk•ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old North French rebuker
1 a : to criticize sharply : REPRIMAND b : to serve as a rebuke to
2 : to turn back or keep down : CHECK
synonym see REPROVE
- re•buk•er noun
Main Entry: cor•rec•tion
Pronunciation: k&-'rek-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the action or an instance of correcting : as a : AMENDMENT, RECTIFICATION b : REBUKE, PUNISHMENT c : a bringing into conformity with a standard d : NEUTRALIZATION, COUNTERACTION
2 : a decline in market price or business activity following and counteracting a rise
3 a : something substituted in place of what is wrong b : a quantity applied by way of correcting (as for adjustment of an instrument)
4 : the treatment and rehabilitation of offenders through a program involving penal custody, parole, and probation; also : the administration of such treatment as a matter of public policy -- usually used in plural
- cor•rec•tion•al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective
Main Entry: righ•teous
Pronunciation: 'rI-ch&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: alter. of earlier rightuous, alteration of Middle English rightwise, rightwos, from Old English rihtwIs, from riht, noun, right + wIs wise
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2 a : morally right or justifiable b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality
3 slang : GENUINE, GOOD
synonym see MORAL
- righ•teous•ly adverb
- righ•teous•ness noun
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Lars7
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Scripture is not about right or wrong....its about Truth....Truth is the sword that slices people to shreds as Jesus proved when he sliced and diced the Pharisees with truth that they did not understand.
They thought they knew God...they thought they were righteous....The truth Jesus spoke to them proved there foolishness.....Im not here to defend Ken Copeland nor anyone else....but rather to defend the truth...I will use just 2 examples...Ken says Jesus was the 1st Born Again man...He is correct...Question...if you know Romans you will understand this...Can righteousness come by the Law?
Yes it can....God did not give the Law for us to obey....think about it...God already knew we were imperfect....so how could a perfect Law change an imperfect man? It cannot! And God knew this...and for this reason God gave us the Law not to obey it but rather to strenghten sin against us! What you say....yes knowing this we would then realize we needed a Savior.....Why else would God give us a Law that He already knew we could not keep. To drive us to Jesus....So then who fulfilled the Law perfectly....none of us ever have or ever will...Jesus did....He fulfilled the Law perfectly
so Salvation came to Jesus by the Law...Hmmmm so then by Faith in believing in Christ His righteousness is imparted to us.His righteousness by fulfiling the Law....Ok the 2nd example....Copeland says he is one with Jesus..and that you are to.....Well he is right again....Question...do you think God answered every prayer that Jesus prayed?....I will take a stab at this one and say YES!...so that being true turn to John chapter 17 and read Jesus prayer....17:21.<That they all may be one;as thou,Father,art in me,and I in thee,that THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou has sent me>....Here we have Jesus saying that He is in the Father as the Father is in him..and then he goes further saying that we be one in them.....Hmmmmmm.....Then in verse 22 Jesus further says something for you to medatate on..<And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them:that they be one ,even as we are one>
We see a powerful prayer from Jesus to the Father and I believe that the Father answered that prayer already...as Ephesians chapter 1 confirms this very thing....verse 3<Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.....How much more one with Christ can one be?....to further that notion the Bible goes on to say that we are JOINT AIRES with Christ....that means what ever is his.....is ours!
And the Bible says that everything under the sun is His!............Anyone thats walking in the Spirit would not judge nor critisize anyone for anything...If you are walking in the Spirit you are walking in Love...and Love does not judge...God Himself will deal with these men its not what we are called for...we are called to bring men to repentence....Jesus exposed the false teachers in His day with truth....Jesus gave us only two commands...Love God with all of your heart...and Love your neighbor as yourself....thats it...if you follow those two you cannot help but to walk in Love.
Posts: 49 | From: Ma | Registered: Jul 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN had written quote:
Gloria Copeland is a good Christian.
hardcore wrote back to BORN AGAIN quote:
2. Depends on what your definition of a "good Christian" is.
A good Christian is someone who actively believes the following two things:
Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; yours sins are forgiven you.
John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
I know that Gloria Copeland believes the above two things and she believes a lot more than that, some of it is questionable, but most of what Gloria has built onto the foundation of Jesus Christ is precious jewels, silver, and gold; but like all of us, she has some wood, hay and stubble too. But who doesn't? So she is a good Christian.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
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James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Double minded women too!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Gloria Copeland is a good Christian.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
Assuming you're serious, I have two responses.
1. Okay. (not really agreeing with you but acquiescing)
2. Depends on what your definition of a "good Christian" is.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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Gloria Copeland is a good Christian.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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bygrace
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Amen Hardcore!
I was once one that listened to that garbage- to my utter shame.
I was chastised about it also- and would not hear it. (the truth)
Now I see, it was pure deception!!!! what garbage pours from these supposed teachers!
Man, I have went back over old notes I took then- man...the devil's siggy is all over it!
bygrace
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by refiman:
Gloria is a perfect example of how a little Biblical knowledge can be dangerous, Lord help her too!
I agree, and yet .... we have Gloria Copeland "wisdom" being dished out to us on this very board in the "bible study" section. We're not supposed to give our opinion on it there, unless we agree with it, so I guess those in that section will continue to wallow in deception. Sad indeed.
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becauseHElives
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refiman
Just a little sarcastic, but right on
Knowing the Truth of God's Word
John 14:26:"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." If we want to know God’s will and desire to perform it, then the Holy Spirit will ensure that we understand it. The Holy Spirit searches and reveals the deep things of God and we thereby have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:10-16). Conversely, if we seek our own will in any way then we will not understand God’s will. The Holy Spirit gives truth of understanding – He is the Spirit of truth (Jn 15:26, 16:13)!
Have you ever noticed how different people can look at the same verse of scripture and come up with very different interpretations of the meaning? A person’s perspective may be biased based upon various reasons such as denominational/religious doctrine (doctrines of men), the way they were brought up or taught (traditions of men), pre-conceived notions, or perhaps a cherished lifestyle. In other words, scripture tends to be examined in light of the individual’s desired outcome or prior knowledge (2 Cor 2:17, 4:2). These things interfere with God’s will and are idols in your heart. If the desired meaning is not clearly apparent or is in doubt, then justification is sought. Offensive scriptures are downplayed and desired ones are emphasized. The Word becomes tailored to meet an end. These look at God’s Word through the eyes of the flesh. We must examine God’s Word through the Spirit.
The flesh desires that which is contrary to the Spirit (Gal 5:17, Rm 8:4-5). The flesh will not desire to deny itself or make sacrifices. If the truth is not approached with a pure heart and right motives then it is of no use to know it. If the truth says to deny yourself and take up the cross, yet you are not willing, then the truth is of no value to you. Many handle God’s Word as a buffet of suggestions to be picked and chosen from, given a changing appetite. They do what is right in their own eyes (Deut 12:8).
Men find all sorts of ways to justify their errors or desired beliefs. They will take God’s Word and say this doesn’t apply because it is in the Old Testament; or this does not apply because it was only meant for the Jews; or this was only for the early church or during apostolic times; or this is only symbolic; and on and on. God’s Word is eternal and never changing (Js 1:17).
Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." What God said in the Old Testament absolutely continues to apply within the context it was said (Mt 13:52).
God has been very clear and consistent throughout the Bible that man is to love, obey and serve Him with a whole heart – to cleave to Him. Anything short of total surrender to the will of God and a life of faith is rebellion and sin. Nothing has changed including the fact that man manipulates to have his will prevail in keeping with his fallen nature. Those who love not the truth of God’s Word and use it for selfish ends have judged God’s Word as unworthy in favor of their own or another’s.
What is the correct way to examine God’s Word to accurately understand Christ’s doctrine (teaching)? How can we know the correct context and application of the scriptures? John 7:16-17, Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know (understand) of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." The fundamental condition for obtaining spiritual knowledge (truth) is a genuine heart-desire to carry out the revealed will of God. Proverbs 28:5, "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things." God will give understanding (Lk 24:45, Mt 13:11) to those who will do His will (desire to know and perform His will), they will understand and thus know His doctrine – This God promises! In order to know and apply God’s will, we must totally put our will aside, you cannot have both (who will be Lord?). When we put our will (or idols) aside (doctrines, traditions, likes, dislikes, etc.), then our heart is ready to receive His will. If we truly want to know God’s will, then we will DO IT (this is a must, Js 1:22) when given the truth, because our heart genuinely seeks to please Him (Ps 25:5, 27:11). As we do God’s will our eyes will be opened to the understanding of His Word. Jesus said: John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." His will must become our will. This always results in self-sacrifice on your part (denying the flesh). Christ’s love was sacrificial and we must reciprocate (it’s a relationship).
If you love not the truth and will not die to self to conform to God’s will (Christ’s image, Rm 8:29) then: 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Many claim salvation through the blood of Christ, but they received not the love of the truth. So they have blindness of heart (Eph 4:18-19). To see the truth, we must first turn from our iniquities (Dan 9:13). To be self-serving and holding onto the things of men is to reject God’s truth in favor of your own or another man’s, usually to satisfy the flesh (carnal nature). Notice the verse (Jn 7:16-17) said doctrine (singular) and not doctrines (plural). There are not many teachings or many paths as some might have you believe. Many want to see God as their own image of the way they think He should be. They create their own golden calf and make sacrifices to it! The Holy Spirit will bear witness and teach those who will embrace truth (John 14:26). God sends those who love not the truth a strong delusion such that they believe their own error.
God will confirm our own idols back to us if we love not the truth. Ezekiel 14:3-5, "Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them? Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols; That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols." Do you see the magnitude of these verses? When we approach God with idols in our hearts (favorite doctrines, beliefs, notions, traditions, justifications, wants) or for any reason other than to know the truth (even if it disagrees with our entire understanding) and to live within that truth, then God just confirms our own error back to us according to the multitude of our idols (2 Thess 2:11). God validates what we want to hear because we reject His truth. Our own error becomes a huge stumblingblock that we now suppose God endorses. This becomes the strong delusion that is believed and accepted as truth. God doesn’t force us to hear the truth, and if we’re not seeking to follow it there is no benefit anyway. This happened to Ahab and Jehoshaphat in 1 Kings Chapter 22 (also 2 Chr 18:19-22). These men wanted an affirmative answer so: 1 Kings 22:23, "Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee." The kings received the answer they wanted to hear (2 Chr 18:11), but it was to the undoing of Ahab (wrong path).
God doesn’t tear down the idols that are in your heart, they are there because you want them to be. You have set them up of your own free will and you defend them. The result is: John 12:40, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." God will not force you against your will. God’s truth is eternal and will remain whether you choose to believe it or not. If you seek God’s truth to perform it, then you will receive it as you obey. If you seek confirmation of your own idolatry, you will receive such confirmation to your own demise. The religious, who seek God through the flesh, have never understood this. God responds to us in like manner: Psalms 18:25-27, "With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward. For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks."
There is only one solution (continuing from the verses above): Ezekiel 14:6, "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations." We have to repent and then start seeking the truth – we must love the truth, it sanctifies (Jn 17:19). Psalm 119:167, "My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly" AND Psalms 119:174, "I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight." We must apply the truth and live within it. Psalms 119:133 , "Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me."
Many religious men seek God to confirm their own idolatry (doctrines and traditions) and God answers them with what they want to hear according to the multitude of their idolatry. Do we not see this demonstrated in the multitudes of religious denominations today? They all differ, yet they are all sure they are hearing from God. Failure to embrace truth becomes a mighty stumblingblock. Many religious institutions have a mixture of truth and error and this is confusion. Israel mixed their worship of God with Paganism and idolatry – so do the religious of today (Jer 7:7-10, 18). Jeremiah 7:19, "Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?" Anything apart from the truth is confusion. Confusion is instability and not a firm foundation.
When we embrace God’s will, He reciprocates: John 14:21, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." AND 1 John 3:22, "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight." As with any relationship, love is mutual (two sided) and there is union and communion with each other. 1 John 4:19, "We love him, because he first loved us." As we sincerely love and obey Christ, God gives us intimacy with Himself within proportion to our effort. Prayers get answered and because we are doing His will they are asked with right intent (not asked amiss, Js 4:3). Oh man, do you see God as your own image of Him? God will not be boxed in by your own religious interpretation of Him. God will not be confined by doctrines of men. God is not answerable to men nor does He serve man. He is the great "I AM" and you cannot even comprehend such. Submit, have fellowship and be led.
To correctly obey God we must serve in Spirit and in truth. God defines His very Word as truth. Psalms 119:160, "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." We read this Word and apply it to our lives as led by the Spirit. The Bible says that we are to be "doers" of the Word and not hearers only (Js 1:22). Hearers are not justified before God; doers are justified before God (Rm 2:13). When we become doers of God’s Word in seeking His will and not ours, then God will make sure we are "understanders" of His Word and purposes (Ps 119:12, 169). That means that you cannot just sit in religious services and hear the Word and agree with it. You must be actively applying the Word to your life daily – living it! This becomes a "Living Faith." However, the elders, chief priest and scribes knew the Word of God and also applied it to their lives but fell short. This is why we must also live in the Spirit. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6, "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." Simply following a list of do’s and don’ts will fall short of God’s desire. God will hold you to your list and you’ll be lacking (Gal 3:12). We must be taught and led of the Spirit how to correctly live out God’s Word with correct motives (attitudes) from the heart out of love. Romans 7:6, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." Does this mean that God is more lax in our obedience to Him? No! It means that: we cannot fulfill the law on our own (with our abilities and motives); and we must have the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us too voluntarily (out of love) uphold the intent of the law – our heart must change! To simply follow the law with no real love and devotion to God misses the point. Many become servants to the law rather than servants to Christ (He is Lord). The law points out our sin, failings and inabilities (Rm 3:20 & 7:7). Galatians 3:24, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." When we see our great need and submit to Jesus, He gives us the ability through our faith to live correctly for Him. Romans 8:4, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." We are definitely being led in paths of righteousness for His namesake. Galatians 5:18, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." The law is not made for the righteous, for they are a law unto themselves with hearts toward God and pure motives, the law is for the disobedient and rebellious (1 Tm 1:9, Rm 2:14-15). Those who love God are willing to follow God’s commands because of their love for Him. They do not have to be forced to do such.
John 6:63, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." If we attempt to understand God’s Word apart from the Spirit we will fail to understand the truth. The flesh profits nothing (Jn 6:57). The flesh wants its dominance and will interpret God’s Word in that disposition. The flesh wants to live in darkness yet profess to be in the light. The Spirit works on us to completely change us - our attitudes and desires. The flesh does not want to be changed it’s a hindrance, a stumbling block and will keep us from truly coming to Christ. The flesh will see God’s love, forgiveness, blessings and grace, but will not see self denial, sacrifice, obedience, forsaking worldliness and crucifixion of self. The flesh does not want to forsake anything, it wants to accumulate. Since the beginning, men living in the flesh have interpreted God’s Word into all manner of erroneous doctrines. Men can be led to follow many a doctrine when the flesh is soothed and pacified and emotions are enticed. We may profess, but will we follow? Jesus said: Luke 9:23, "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Jesus also said whosoever does not bear his cross and forsake all that he hath and come after cannot be Christ’s disciple (Lk 14:27 & 14:33). This is not a message for the flesh and is rarely preached in context. Only when we allow the Spirit to quicken will we see the truth and have life. The Holy Spirit regenerates! When we die to ourselves and seek God’s will, we change into something beautiful like a seed planted in the ground or a butterfly emerging from a cocoon.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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yahsway
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refiman, these preachers like copeland remind me of the scriptures in Ezekiel 34, where the shepherds get "fat" while feeding and fleecing off the flock. How sad.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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refiman
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Copeland is a bonehead...in the gospel for personal fame and wealth. His teachings are off the wall and his daily television episodes sitting at the kitchen table using the "Mutt and Jeff" routine of "smart preacher, dumb student" while sipping coffee sickens me. Gloria is a perfect example of how a little Biblical knowledge can be dangerous, Lord help her too! Matter of fact Lord help the Copeland daughter who also decided not to get a real job but soak up the green from mail from the not knowing and ignorant sheep. I put all of them in the same boat as Robert Tilton (thousand dollar man) and Peter Popoff(ear phones man), Richard Roberts (could not make it in show biz so let's get money from the Christians to live like the rich, and they do a good job of it. Oh, I can't forget Benny..Nehru suit Hinn, first class charletan who appreciates living off the sheep and shows it with his 500 SEL series Mercedes and ultra rich life style. How many people are in the US? Perhaps 270 million or so...all you have to do is target the twenty or thirty million stupid people with a Jesus twist and bingo..you're in the money! Sing Praises to His name! Magical prayer cloths, cheap wrist bracelets, plastic cross's, we have seen it all, but the dumb continue to fall prey, ridiculous. Maybe someday Jesus will assign a serial killer to off all of these ticks of the weak and misinformed Christians so we all can rejoice!
God Bless
Refiman
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Watcher
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Trademark: While Copeland is the father of the atonement atrocities like Jesus being the first born again man, his blasphemous doctrines seem limitless. His big promotion is that we are on equal footing with the Lord.
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Jesus was infected/injected with satan's sin nature in order for redemption to work
"He [Jesus] is suffering all that there is to suffer. There is no suffering left apart from Him. His emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing [hell]. And the Devil thinks he's got Him destroyed."
Kenneth Copeland (Believer's Voice of Victory program, April 21, 1991)
"The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, 'My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?' You don't know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, 'Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there -- the sign of Satan? Why didn't you put a lamb on that pole?' And the Lord said, 'Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.' He said, 'I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off."
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
Jesus "put Himself into the hands of Satan when He went to that cross, and took that same nature that Adam did [when he sinned]."
Kenneth Copeland (The Incarnation, 1985, audiotape #01-0402, side 1)
Jesus is said to have remarked, "It was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross....I accepted, in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off."
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
[Jesus] "had to give up His righteousness"
Kenneth Copeland (The Incarnation, 1985, audiotape #01-0402, side 2)
"How did Jesus then on the cross say, 'My God.' Because God was not His Father any more. He took upon Himself the nature of Satan. And I'm telling you Jesus is in the middle of that pit. He's suffering all that there is to suffer, there is no suffering left . . . apart from Him. His emaciated, little wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing and the devil thinks He's got Him destroyed. But, all of a sudden God started talking."
Kenneth Copeland (Believer's Voice of Victory, TBN, April 21, 1991)
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The cross wasn't enough, Jesus redeemed us in hell
"When Jesus cried, 'It is finished!' He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne...Jesus' death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption."
Kenneth Copeland (Jesus -- Our Lord of Glory, Believer's Voice of Victory Magazine 10, 4; April 1982, p. 3)
"Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell"
Kenneth Copeland (Holy Bible: Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition, 1991, p.129)
"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer."
Kenneth Copeland (The Price of It All, 3)
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Jesus died spiritually
"Jesus had to go through that same spiritual death in order to pay the price. Now it wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin, because if it had of been any prophet of God that had died for the last couple of thousand years before that could have paid that price. It wasn't physical death anybody could do that."
Kenneth Copeland (What Satan Saw on the Day of Pentecost, audio tape #020022)
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Jesus was the first born again man
"He allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell as if He were the most wicked sinner who ever lived ... Every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him ... [They] tortured Him beyond anything that anybody has ever conceived ... In a thunder of spiritual force, the voice of God spoke to the death-whipped, broken, punished spirit of Jesus ... [in] the pit of destruction, and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life ... He was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles ... Jesus Christ dragged Satan up and down the halls of hell ... Jesus ... was raised up a born-again man ... The day I realized that a born-again man had defeated Satan, hell, and death, I got so excited ... !"
Kenneth Copeland ("The Price of it All," Believer's Voice of Victory, September 1991, p. 4)
"In hell He [Jesus] suffered for you and for me. The Bible says hell was made for Satan and his angels. It was not made for men. Satan was holding the Son of God there illegally ... The trap was set for Satan and Jesus was the bait."
Kenneth Copeland (Walking in the Realm of the Miraculous, 1979, p. 77)
"The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, "Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you up." He said, "Think this way -- a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain." And I threw my Bible down... like that. I said, "What?" He said, "A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him." He said, "You are the very image, the very copy of that one." I said, "Goodness, gracious sakes alive!" And I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said, "Well now you don't mean, you couldn't dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?" He said, "Oh yeah, if you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, 'cause you're a reborn man too."
Kenneth Copeland (Substitution and Identification, tape #00-0202, side 2)
" ...that Word of the Living God went down into that pit of destruction and charges the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly, His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil has never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex his spiritual muscles... Jesus was born again -- the firstborn from the dead."
Kenneth Copeland (The Price of it All, Believer's Voice in Victory, vol 19 September 1991, p.9)
"He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam's treason... There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says 'That's enough, loose him and let him go'."
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
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Anyone could have redeemed us
"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that."
Kenneth Copeland (What Satan Saw on the Day of Pentecost, audiotape #BCC-19, side 1)
"Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only. When He said 'It is finished' on that cross, He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun; there were still three days and three nights to be gone through."
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
"The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, "Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don't let your tradition trip you up." He said, "Think this way -- a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain." And I threw my Bible down... like that. I said, "What?" He said, "A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him." He said, "You are the very image, the very copy of that one." I said, "Goodness, gracious sakes alive!" And I began to see what had gone on in there, and I said, "Well now you don't mean, you couldn't dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?" He said, "Oh yeah, if you'd had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, 'cause you're a reborn man too."
Kenneth Copeland (Substitution and Identification, 1989, tape #00-0202, side 2)
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The church is in control, not God
"As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word."
Kenneth Copeland (Our Covenant with God, 1987, p. 32)
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God is banned from the earth until the church unleashes him/allows him in
"God's on the outside looking in. He doesn't have any legal entree into the earth. The thing don't belong to Him. You see how sassy the Devil was in the presence of God in the book of Job? God said, "Where have you been?" Wasn't any of God's business. He [Satan] didn't even have to answer if he didn't want to ... God didn't argue with him a bit! You see, this is the position that God's been in ... Might say, "Well, if God's running things He's doing a lousy job of it." He hadn't been running 'em, except when He's just got, you know, a little bit of a chance."
Kenneth Copeland (Image of God in You III, 1989, audiotape #01-1403, side 1)
"Here's where we're gonna depart from ordinary church: Now, you see, God is injecting His Word into the earth to produce this Jesus -- these faith-filled words that framed the image that's in Him ... He can't just walk onto the earth and say, "Let it be!" because He doesn't have the right. He had to sneak it in here around the god of this world that was blockin' every way that he possibly could."
Kenneth Copeland (The Image of God in You III, 1989, audiotape #01-1403, side 2)
"The Bible says that God gave this earth to the sons of men ... and when [Adam] turned and gave that dominion to Satan, look where it left God. If left Him on the outside looking in ... He had no legal right to do anything about it, did He? ... He had injected Himself illegally into the earth -- what Satan had intended for Him to do was to fall for it -- pull off an illegal act and turn the light off in God, and subordinate God to himself ... He intended to get God into such a trap that He couldn't get out."
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017)
"Adam committed high treason, and at that point, all the dominion and authority God had given to him was handed over to Satan. Suddenly, God was on the outside looking in ... After Adam's fall, God found Himself in a peculiar position ... God needed an avenue back into the earth ... God laid out His proposition and Abram accepted it. It gave God access to the earth and gave man access to God ... Technically, if God ever broke the Covenant, He would have to destroy Himself."
Kenneth Copeland (Our Covenant with God, 1987, pp. 8-11)
"God had no avenue of lasting faith or moving in the earth. He had to have covenant with somebody. He had to be invited in, in other words, or He couldn't come. God is on the outside looking in. In order to have any say so in the earth, He's going to have to be in agreement with a man here."
Kenneth Copeland (God's Covenants With Man II, 1985, audiotape #01-4404, side 1)
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These men think they're Gods!
"Jesus is no longer the only begotten Son of God."
Kenneth Copeland (Now We Are In Christ Jesus, 1980, p. 24)
"You are not a spiritual schizophrenic -- half-God and half-Satan -- you are all-God"
Kenneth Copeland (Now We Are in Christ Jesus, 1980, p.16-17)
"You don't have a god in you, you are one"
Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Love, 1987, audiotape #02-0028, side 1)
"I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'"
Kenneth Copeland (Believer's Voice of Victory, TBN July 9, 1987)
"Now Peter said by exceeding great and precious promises you become partakers of the divine class. All right, are we gods? We are a class of gods!"
Kenneth Copeland (Praise The Lord, TBN February 5, 1986)
"Adam was created in God's own image and likeness, a spirit-being...[and] takes on the nature of his spiritual father or lord."
Kenneth Copeland (Our Covenant with God, 1987, p.7-8)
"Gods reason for creating Adam was his desire to reproduce himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. And in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God, He was not almost like God, He was not subordinate to God even ... Adam was as much like God as you can get, just the same as Jesus. Adam in the Garden of Eden was God manifested in the flesh"
Kenneth Copeland (Following the faith of Abraham Audio, #01-3001 side 1)
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The Anointing
"Believers are not to be led by logic," he writes. "We are not even to be led by good sense"
Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Faith, 7)
"You have the same creative faith and ability on the inside of you that God used when he created the heavens and the earth."
Kenneth Copeland (Inner Image of the Covenant, side 2)
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The 100 fold theory
"Do you want a hundredfold return on your money? Give and let God multiply it back to you. He urges his supporters, "Invest heavily in God; the returns are staggering, ... "Every man who invests in the Gospel has a right to expect the staggering return of one hundredfold."
Kenneth Copeland (Laws of Prosperity , pg.67)
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The importance of earthly riches
"The basic principle of the Christian life is to know that God put our sin, sickness, disease, sorrow, grief, and poverty on Jesus at Calvary," he asserts. "For Him to put any of this on us now would be a miscarriage of justice."
Kenneth Copeland (The Troublemaker, 6)
"Well, they say, you need balance in this, get out there in that hyper faith, that name-it-and-claim-it, that blab-it-and-grab-it. YEAH! We named it and claimed it and got it. (crowd cheers) Blabbed it and grabbed it and still got it ! Hallelujah! And our bills are paid."
Kenneth Copeland (speaking at John Hagee's Church, August 18, 1999)
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Health is yours for the claiming
"You began to meditate on those scriptures until you built an inner image of yourself healed. As that image grew more crisp and clear, you began to expect -- or hope for -- that image to become a reality. Eventually, faith rose up, put substance to that internal image and turned it into an external reality. That spiritual process always works the same way. Hope forms the image according to the Word, then faith rises up and gives substance to that image, making it a reality in the natural, physical realm. ... Actually, what you did is activate the scriptural process described in Hebrews 11:1 "Faith is the substance of things hoped for ... Boil it down to its simplest form, and you could write it like this: God's Word+Hope+Faith=Manifestation! ... You'll be expecting the very presence of God to rise up in you so powerfully that instead of believing for healing every six weeks, you'll walk in divine health every day!"
Kenneth Copeland ("Expect The Glory", Believer's Voice of Victory magazine, January 1998, p. 5)
"... It wasn't Peter's shadow that healed them. What was it? That field of Glory that surrounded him. That's what [sic] God put hope in you to expect. The Glory! ... It will flood the earth when we meditate upon the Glory of God so much that hope rises up and produces an image. Then faith will release the Glory of God from the inside of us where we can't see it to the outside where we can see it! ... Does this sound wild to you? Well, it's not! If you'll go back and read the Bible, you'll see that's what Christianity is all about. God intended for the Body of Christ to walk through this earth with such a manifestation of His presence in our lives that it would either scare people spitless ... or draw them into the Kingdom of God!"
Kenneth Copeland ("Expect The Glory", Believer's Voice of Victory magazine, January 1998, p. 6)
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Results of lack of faith
"God cannot do anything for you apart or separate from faith,"
Kenneth Copeland (Freedom from Fear, 1983, 11)
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4th Dimension of non-carnal attainment
"Pray to yourself, because I'm in your self and you're in My self. We are one Spirit, saith the Lord."
Kenneth Copeland ("Believer's Voice of Victory", Feb. 1987, p.9)
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The faith force
"Faith is a power force," he claims. "It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force."
Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Faith, 1989, 10)
"Faith is a spiritual force....It is substance. Faith has the ability to effect natural substance."
Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 1982, 8)
"The force of gravity...makes the law of gravity work...this force of faith...makes the laws of the spirit world function."
Kenneth Copeland (The Laws of Prosperity, 1974, 18-19)
"Faith is God's source of power"
Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 1982, 8)
"Faith was the raw material substance that the Spirit of God used to form the universe."
Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer II, 1987, audiotape #01-0302, side 1)
"The force of faith was controlling His (Jesus') ministry."
Kenneth Copeland (The Force of Faith, 9)
"Man was created to know that great life force and he longs for it in his dreams. Adam had that life force in him before he committed high treason"
Kenneth Copeland (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, side 2)
"God did not create the world out of nothing, He used the Force of His Faith."
Kenneth Copeland (pirit, Soul, & Body, #01-0601, Tape #1)
"Faith is God's source of power"
Kenneth Copeland (Freedom From Fear, 1983. p. 12)
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Words are spiritual containers
"Words are spiritual containers,"
Kenneth Copeland (Forces of the Recreated Human Spirit, 15; cf. 14)
The "force of faith is released by words."
Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer II, 1987, audiotape #01-0302, side 1)
"God used words when He created the heaven and the earth....Each time God spoke, He released His faith -- the creative power to bring His words to pass."
Kenneth Copeland (The Power of the Tongue, 1980, 4)
"As a born-again believer, you are equipped with the Word. You have the power of God at your disposal. By getting the Word deep into your spirit and speaking it boldly out your mouth, you release spiritual power to change things in the natural circumstances."
Kenneth Copeland (The Power of the Tongue, 1980, 15)
"Words create pictures, and pictures in your mind create words. And then the words come back out your mouth....And when that spiritual force comes out it is going to give substance to the image that's on the inside of you. Aw, that's that visualization stuff! Aw, that's that New Age! No, New Age is trying to do this; and they'd get somewhat results out of it because this is spiritual law, brother."
Kenneth Copeland (Believer's Voice of Victory, TBN, March 28, 1991)
"Words are the most sacred things....This is a word planet...governed by words...created by words....Words cause it to function...cause life...cause death....Words go on forever....Words are holy."
Kenneth Copeland (The Abrahamic Covenant, side 1)
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Sensual manifestations
"Everything that you're able to see or touch, anything that you can feel, anything that's perceptive to the five physical senses, was originally the faith of God, and was born in the substance of God's faith."
Kenneth Copeland (Spirit, Soul, & Body Part 1, 1985, audiotape #01-0601, side 1)
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Above Reproach - testing their spirits
[Copeland claims Jesus told him personally in a vision:] "Don't be disturbed when people put you down and speak harshly and roughly of you. They spoke that way of Me, should they not speak that way of you? The more you get to be like Me, the more they're going to think that way of you. They crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn't claim I was God; I just claimed I walked with Him and He was in Me. Hallelujah. That's what you're doing."
Kenneth Copeland ("Take Time To Pray," Believer's Voice of Victory 15, February 1987, 9)
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God is the biggest failure in the bible
"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is...The biggest one in the whole Bible is God...I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least - that's a big loss, man....Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's a failure. And you're not a failure till you say you're one."
Kenneth Copeland (Praise-a-thon on Praise The Lord, April 1988)
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Jesus was raped by Roman soldiers
"Let me tell you something folks. Anybody in here that's ever been sexually abused, listen to me right now. Listen to me very carefully. The Bible's very careful about the way it says these things. But down there in that dungeon, Romans, ungodly men, ungodly men, put Him (Jesus) to every kind of abuse that you can think of. There is no sin that Jesus didn't bare. There is no thing, there is no such thing as a sexual abuse on somebody that Jesus doesn't know firsthand what it's all about. He's been where you are. I don't care what you've been through, Jesus has been through it. And everythings done to him that we couldn't even speak of."
Kenneth Copeland (The Resurrection Truth)
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God's physical description
"God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words. These words struck Adam's body in the face. His body and God's were exactly the same size."
Kenneth Copeland (Holy Bible, Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991, p. 45)
"If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike....If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and act and sound exactly alike....The image is that they look just alike, but the likeness is that they act alike and they are alike....All of God's attributes, all of God's authority, all of God's faith, all of God's ability was invested in that man."
Kenneth Copeland (Authority of the Believer IV 1987, audiotape #01-0304), side 1)
"The Bible said He measured the heavens with a 9 inch span. Now the span is the difference, distance between the end of the thumb and the end of the little Finger. And, and that Bible said, in fact the amplified translation translates the Hebrew text that way. That He measured out the heavens with a 9 inch span. Well, I got a ruler and measured mine, and my span's 8 3/4 inches long. So now God's span is a quarter of an inch, a quarter inch longer than mine. So you see, that faith didn't come billowing out of some giant monster somewhere. It came out of the heart of a being that is very uncanny the way He's very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6' 2 ", 6' 3", that weighs somewhere in the neighbourhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, has a span of 8 and, I mean nine inches across - stood up and said "Light be [Let it be?]", and this universe situated itself and went into motion. Glory to God."
Kenneth Copeland ("pirit, Soul, & Body Part 1" 1985, audio tape #01-0601, side 1)
God is a "spirit-being with a body, complete with eyes, and eyelids, ears, nostrils, a mouth, hands and fingers, and feet."
Kenneth Copeland (Kenneth Copeland ministry letter, 21 July 1977)
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The Womb-Man
"Adam was made in the image of God. He was as much female as he was male. He was exactly like God. Then God separated him and removed the female part. Woman means 'man with the womb.' Eve had as much authority as Adam did as long as they stayed together."
Kenneth Copeland (Sensitivity of Heart, KCP Publications, 1984, p. 23)
"Then, he created Eve out of Adam. Now, actually God didn't name her Eve, Adam named her Eve later. That wasn't her name, her name was Adam ... Adam. When God said Adam, they both came. Their authority was one and the same together. They did everything together. They had always been together. Even when she was still part of him, he was as much female as he was male, LIKE GOD IS. And God separated the female part of him and then put them back together. And she was Adam, they were Adam. He was the man, she was the woman. She was the man with the womb."
Kenneth Copeland ((Transcribed From A Message Given By Kenneth Copeland, Paw Creek Ministries) )
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God lives on the mother planet
"Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet."
Kenneth Copeland (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)
"You don't think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don't think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that's new. Are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy of home. It's a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it."
Kenneth Copeland (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)
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I have met and/or spoken to Jesus
(Relating Jesus speaking) "Don't be disturbed when people put you down and speak harshly and roughly of you. They spoke that way of Me, should they not speak that way of you? The more you get to be like Me, the more they're going to think that way of you. They crucified Me for claiming that I was God. But I didn't claim I was God; I just claimed I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah."
Kenneth Copeland ("Take Time to Pray," Believer's Voice of Victory, February 1987, p. 9)
Research Links
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/c53.html
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/copeland/general.htm
http://www.letusreason.org/Wf19.htm
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/kcopeland.html
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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