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Author
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Topic: BIG CHURCHES, LITTLE TO NO CROSSES
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
One more thing, you said that if we are to lead the lost to Christ, than the cross needs to be front and center,
But the cross does not convict people of their sins, The Holy Spirit does. The Ten commandments are the tutor that leads people to understand that they are sinners and in need of a savior.
People need to know first why and what seperates them from a Holy God. Because ALL have sinned and come short of His glory.
And what is sin? Sin is transgression of Gods laws. If they HEAR and recieve this message, then they can be led by the Holy Spirit to come to Yeshua, the one who took their penalty of sin which is death. He died on a cruel cross for the sins of the world and for whomsoever would believe on Him. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Watcher
Advanced Member
Member # 3589
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posted
yahsway,
I think you missed the point of the post.
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
Posts: 146 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2004
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
Watcher, I understand your position about Joel O. but I happen to attend house fellowships and there are no crosses displayed.
We hide the Word deep in our hearts and worship Jesus, not the cross.
I understand that the cross has become a "symbol" of christianity, but Ozzy Osborne wears one around his neck along with a lot of other people who want nothing to do with Jesus/Yeshua.
The Church/ekklesia are people, not a building. We are Temples of the Living Yahweh God, not made with hands or stone.
I have been to many church houses that display the cross symbol and yet teach false doctrine.
I have seen catholic priest (who wear "big" crosses around their neck) go to prison for sexual abuse of children.
We are to "pick up our cross" and follow Him. Dying to ourselves, not displaying a cross to show how "holy" we are.
My brother married a girl who was a stripper at the time he married her and she wore a cross around her neck all the time. When I asked her about it, she said it was to ward off "evil spirits". Ha! When I asked her if she had made Jesus/Yeshua the Lord of her life, she said she believed in Yeshua and that was all. But her lifestyle did not change for several years until my brother ended up having her put in a place to dry her out from drugs and alcohol.
Some people say we must look to the cross, but to me thats false. We must look to the ONE who died on a Cruel Cross. Praise Him forever. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Watcher
Advanced Member
Member # 3589
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posted
http://www.rapturealert.com/072705bigchurches.html
by Michael G. Mickey
(7-27-05)
Lakewood Church, pastored by televangelist and best-selling author Joel Osteen, has grown so much in recent years that it recently had to expand into a new building: the former Compaq Center, former home of the NBA's Houston Rockets and the WNBA's Houston Comets, but only after some more seating. According to a USA TODAY story, the church's weekly attendance is an average of more than 30,000 for its services, but its average attendance in the first quarter of this year was over 32,000! That's one BIG church!
Anyone who has ever listened to Joel Osteen preach knows he has a tremendous gift for speaking, but what exactly is his congregation getting out of what he's teaching them each Sunday? A lot of information on how to make it from one Sunday to the next, in my opinion, which at least one person quoted in the USA TODAY story thought was enough. She said, "I don't care what the critics say. Pastor Joel gives me enough word to make it from 12:15 on Sunday to 10:45 the next Sunday. He gives me practical ways to live my life." But what about what happens when Pastor Osteen's congregation runs out of Sundays to "live their life" in? Will they know about the person of Jesus Christ and their need to come to faith in Him as their Lord and Savior, understanding their inability to stand in the presence of a holy, sinless God in judgment based on the merits of how they've lived their lives alone? Will they know the truth contained in the Word of God - the whole truth - or simply a watered-down version of the Gospel? It's a question that begs an answer because we're told, in Hebrews 9:27, it is appointed unto men once to die and, after that, to face God's judgment!
Admittedly, I haven't watched many Joel Osteen sermons, but the ones I have seen certainly didn't feel right to me, in terms of their content. They seemed more like self-help studies than sermons on holy living. Did I see any conviction in them? None whatsoever. In fact, based on my limited viewership of Joel Osteen, I'd say there's about as much conviction in a Joel Osteen sermon as there are crosses in the gigantic pulpit of Lakewood Church. None!
What kind of church is the largest in the entire United States of America but can't find room for even ONE cross in its pulpit - the symbol of our Savior's sacrifice made on our behalf? Not one is there, as anyone who has ever watched a Joel Osteen sermons knows - an issue the USA TODAY article addresses as shown in the following excerpt from the article:
Absent, however, is a cross, an image of God or Jesus Christ or any other traditional religious symbols. Osteen said his father never displayed such symbols and he simply continued the tradition. Instead, the new location will feature a larger version of the church's trademark globe, rotating slowly behind Osteen as he preaches.
Therein lies the problem with many of our churches here in the end times! There are too many "feel good about yourself" sermons being preached on Sundays and not enough "you need to be doing a better job of living a holy life and reaching the lost" sermons! In my youth, I remember hearing people walking out of church complimenting their pastor for "stepping on their toes", reminding them that they're sinners saved by grace and grace alone who are supposed to be on a mission to lead the lost to salvation! In contrast, many Christians today are walking out of church on Sunday mornings with new ideas on how they can better manage their checkbooks! No conviction! No passion for reaching the lost! No thought whatsoever concerning spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ - the whole gospel (complete with conviction and judgment) - to the people who are living on the earth symbolized by that BIG globe spinning behind Joel Osteen's shoulder while he preaches from the cross-less pulpit of Lakewood Church.
Matthew 16:26: For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
No matter how big the spinning globe of a man or woman's life becomes, the end result of all their works on earth will be eternal bankruptcy in the form of spending an eternity in hell if they leave this world without ever accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior! Each and every day men and women who were never convicted of their sins by a Christian who told them of their desperate need to come to faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are, as the pastor of the church of my youth used to put it, splitting hell wide open and we need to care that that's the case!
If you're attending a church that doesn't have a cross on display in it, it's time to be asking why and DEMANDING that one be put up and taught about from the pulpit! A big church without the cross isn't a church in my opinion. It's a self-help club!
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From a reader of the site, in response to the commentary above, in his own words:
On Joel Osteen. It's funny you bring that up. It has been on my mind
before, but this week in particular after seeing another broadcast on Sunday
night. I was going over this in my mind in lue of all the things we are
seeing with pastors and churches falling away or watering down Gods word.
You see I watch his sermon usually at least once a week sometime during the
week (he is broadcasted several times a week on satellite) because I do get
uplifted from it sometimes. Joel's message in a way is a good one - we are
people who need to depend on God to get through life, find his calling and
will for our life and act on it and keep a walk with him. That is mostly
what he preaches. And that is ok for a mature Chrisitan, but at the same
time we don't want to loose sight of why we need God and Christ. Then I ask
myself ok that may be true but what about the rest of the bible and what
about the command that tells christians to preach out against sin and preach
the gospel and Christ's return. In most of the churches in America this is
NOT coming from the pulpit. The reason for a decaying America. So in that
respect is it a wrong message?...maybe not a COMPLETE message as maybe the
church isn't complete without a CROSS displayed. He does give an invation
to accept Christ as Savior each time. But at the same time if the message
doesn't talk about why you must be saved then who prays the prayer or knows
why they are praying the prayer?
Brian
My reply to Brian:
Hi Brian,
Thanks for your e-mail.
While I don't discount everything Joel Osteen says by any means nor question his salvation, he is definitely selling the gospel short.
Mature Christians can benefit from some of what he says, certainly, but a new believer or one who has never come to Christ? I doubt it.
The Church of the end times needs to gently step on some toes, convict some hearts by demonstrating why we need a Savior, and lead the lost to Christ. If we are to lead the lost to Christ, the cross needs to be on display - front and center!
Phillipians 2:5-11:
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In Christ,
Mike
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
Posts: 146 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2004
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