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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

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there have been churches who have separated from the traditional churches

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What traditional churches do you speak of His Grace?

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there have been churches who have separated from the traditional churches

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
I am looking for a positive discernment concerning Benny Hinn from the scriptures for myself and nothing will sway me once I get that answer.

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Perhaps these Scriptures will help?

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HisGrace, I have to ask you this. Do you believe there are False Teachers and False Prophets within the Church? If so, who do you think these are? The Scriptures are Clear… the Wolves will come from Within the Church.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
I am looking for a positive discernment concerning Benny Hinn from the scriptures for myself and nothing will sway me once I get that answer.

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Matthew 24: 4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

(Note from SoftTouch: This can be taken Two ways… Someone claiming the are OF Christ and saying Jesus is the Christ (yet teaching falsely), or someone claiming that they themselves are Christ… Example: Benny Hinn: "When you say, 'I am a Christian, you are saying, 'I am mashiach' in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words That is a shocking revelation.... May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around." ("Praise-a-Thon" program on TBN [6 November 1990].) I’m sure we all know that Mashiach is Hebrew for “Christ” – therefore what he’s saying is HE is CHRIST)

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give **** in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

(Note from SoftTouch: Benny Hinn Said: "I'm prophesying this. Jesus Christ the Son of God is about to appear physically in some Churches, some meetings and to many of His people. For one reason to tell you He's about to show up, to wake up, Jesus is coming saints." And later he said, "It is about to begin happening. I know it too!" (Prophecy given: Praise The Lord, TBN, television program, April 20, 2000) )

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.


Matthew 12: 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39But he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Acts 20: 28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Peter 2: 1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

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The program revealed that besides Hinn's salary being upwards of one million each year, Hinn also owns a $10 million dollar mansion, a private jet with $1.5 million in maintenance costs each year, and two Mercedes valued at $80,000 each. Layovers between Crusades at locations such as Hawaii and Milan cost from $900 to almost $3,000 for one night. Receipts showed that Hinn received $25,000 in petty cash for a Crusade that was 30 minutes from his home.

Source: The Christian Post
http://www.christianpost.com/article/ministries/1252/section/ministry
watchcom.issues.donor.alert.for.benny.hinn/1.htm

(I had to split this URL so it doesn’t scroll the page. Just put it back together for the link to work.

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I went to a Benny Hinn conference once. It sounded good to me but I was way in the back and I didn't get to sit with me friends, I ended up behind them next to some guy. We were standing and Benny said pray for healing, all as a group. I didn't know why but I just closed my eyes and was led to pray for the guy next to me. He didn't know it because I didn't lay hands on him or anything. Then, he disappeared and I didn't know if he was a Christian or not. Well, I prayed and asked God to help me see this guy again and I didn't know what a miracle it would be because when we went outside, between the crowd and many buses we couldn't even find our bus.

However, while I was looking for my bus I saw this guy again and asked I boldly, although I couldn't believe I was that bold, started asking him questions. He told me that he went to the meeting hoping God would heal something on him. I don't remember now what it was but I think it was a finger or something. He said God completely healed him. I prayed for him again to have more faith because I could tell it was weak and he said he wasn't sure but he said God if you are really there please show me through healing and God did that night. Just the fact that I found him was a miracle as I said. Anyway, I hugged him and we parted and that was it.

I believe that God can and will work in any meeting if a person's heart is right regardless of what the preacher is doing.

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
The following scripture shows that unbelievers can do good works but that doesn't save them.
Ezekiel 33:12
"Son of man, give your people this message: The good works of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the sins of evil people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins

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For Ezekiel 33:12, my KJV bible read differently,

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

…It talks about how the “righteousness” of the righteous will still not deliver them from their transgression; no reference of “good works” there.

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And as for Romans 11:6, my KJV bible read differently,

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
…But works can be either good or bad, they can have either the right or wrong motive.

Works with the wrong motive glorify you… bad works are burned in the fire.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
The following scripture shows that unbelievers can do good works but that doesn't save them.

Romans 11:6
And if they are saved by God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's wonderful kindness would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.

Ezekiel 33:12
"Son of man, give your people this message: The good works of righteous people will not save them if they turn to sin, nor will the sins of evil people destroy them if they repent and turn from their sins

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
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…But works can be either good or bad, they can have either the right or wrong motive.

Works with the wrong motive glorify you… bad works are burned in the fire.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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…And works with the right motive glorify God the Father…good works endure the fire, and are rewarded.

ST. MATTHEW 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

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So works do not save us. But we all must bare good fruit.

ST. MATTHEW 7:19 EVERY TREE THAT BRINGETH NOT FORTH GOOD FRUIT IS HEWN DOWN, AND CAST INTO THE FIRE.

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Good fruit and good works do not go hand in hand all the time…It is different in some cases: Someone can just have good fruit but bad works…or bad fruit but good works. And unbelievers cannot do good works, because good works glorify the Father in heaven.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
HisGrace: Can you splain to me how you come to this place? How is it that you are able to know whether or not God sees Hinns works as good fruit?

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Because Benny Hinn professes to be a born-again believer, whether you like it or not, he is doing much to help the needy in this world and thus God surely is seeing good fruit.

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So you feel that while you cannot not know his heart, you can hear his heart spoken in his message is that correct His Grace?

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
Notice I-BG that I said that someone else is going to try to use 'good words' as an example; I am using good fruit as the example. As BA says the two should go hand in hand, but somehow we see good works as something that unbelievers do to bring glory to themselves.

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Originally posted by HisGrace:
As you quoted -
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

You keep quoting the following scripture I-BG. What gives you the authority to tack it onto Benny Hinn. I don't see Benny Hinn when I read this scripture.

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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
A Good Shepard also does not Prophecy Falsely. Benny Hinn had made MANY False Prophecies. The Bible is SO Clear about the accuracy of a Prophet. If that Prophet is not 100% Correct - 100% of the time, then he is a False Prophet. I don't care How Old these prophecies I'm quoting may be, the fact remains Hinn made the False Prophecies and they did Not come true. I understand that Hinn is still giving Prophecies today (No big surprise), what I DON'T Understand is how after being Proven (by his previous record of being Wrong) how people can Still regard him as someone who hears directly from God or someone that they should listen to? Here are a few examples of Hinns False Prophecies:

GOD WILL DESTROY THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY

"The Lord also tells me to tell you, in mid 90s, about '94 or '95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. But He will not destroy it with what many minds have thought Him to be. He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed."
Prophecy given: Orlando Christian Center, December 31, 1989

AN EARTHQUAKE WILL HIT THE EAST COAST

"The Spirit of God tells me, an earthquake will hit the East Coast of America and destroy much in the 90's. Not one place will be safe from earthquakes in the 90's. These who have known earthquakes will know it. People I feel the Spirit all over me [speaks in 'tongues']"
Prophecy given: Orlando Christian Center, December 31, 1989

FIDEL CASTRO WILL DIE IN THE 1990'S

"The Spirit tells me, Fidel Castro will die in the 90's. Oh my. Some will try to kill him and they will not succeed. But there will come a change in his physical health, and he will not stay in power. And Cuba will be visited of God. I will visit Cuba. Oh. Oh. Holy Spirit do you mean he'll die physically? What do you mean, Holy Spirit? Tell me please. My. Oh. Holy Spirit just said to me, it could be worse than any death you can imagine. There's some question in my spirit on what kind of death the Lord means. I'm not sure. I see him. Uh. I see Cas, I, I see Castro bent over behind bars. I don't know what that means."
Prophecy given: Orlando Christian Center, December 31, 1989

JESUS CHRIST WILL PERSONALLY APPEAR ON THE PLATFORM IN ONE OF BENNY HINN'S CRUSADES Here is the dialog between Hinn and Paul Crouch

Benny Hinn:
"Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is, just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the Scriptures says He, He, He even, He even appeared to Paul. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord!"

"I know deep in my soul something supernatural is going to happen in Nairobi Kenya. Paul and Jan are coming to Nairobi with me, but Paul, we may very well come back with footage of Jesus appearing on the platform. You know that the Lord appeared in Romania recently and there's a video of it, where the Lord appeared in there back of a church and you see Him on video walking down the aisle, Yea. Paul do you remember when I came on TBN years ago I showed you a clip of the Lord appearing in our church in Orlando on the balcony on the wall? Yea you remember that.

Paul Crouch:
"Yea, very well. I saw it."

Benny Hinn:
"That was eighty, something eighty sixty, whatever. You know I always wondered why the Lord, why did He do that , you know why now I look back that was the beginning of the greatest move of God in our church. Because 83, 84, 85 were horrible years for me, horrible years. 86, the blessings of God began but they began with this manifestation of the Lords face on the balcony that stayed for 8 weeks, 8 solid weeks. The Lord has done this in the past but He's about to do it again, now here this. I'm prophesying this. Jesus Christ the Son of God is about to appear physically in some Churches, some meetings and to many of His people. For one reason to tell you He's about to show up, to wake up, Jesus is coming saints."

"She (Ruth Heflin - the woman Benny Hinn claims is a prophetess) just sent me a word through my wife and said the Lord spoke to her audibly and said that He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. "the Lord spoke to her audibly and said, 'Tell Benny I'm (Jesus is) going to appear physically on the platform in his meetings.' Lord, do it in Phoenix Arizona in the name of Jesus! And in Kenya too, Lord, please, Lord, in fact, do it in every crusade." Prophecy given: Praise The Lord, TBN, television program, March 29, 2000:

[b]Benny Hinn:
"Ruth Heflin said, the Lord spoke to her recently, and she called my wife and told her to tell me, that Jesus said to her, that He will appear physically on the platform in one of our crusades. She said, 'Tell Benny, that the Lord told me that He is going to appear physically appear physically on the platform, and the crowds will see Him, on the platform.' Dear God my hair is standing up!" It may very well happen in Nashville! She said, thousands will see the Lord, on the platform!"
Prophecy given: Praise The Lord, TBN, television program, April 20, 2000:

BENNY HINN:
"...We are about to see the greatest manifestations of God's presence ever! A prophetess named Ruth Heflin sent me a word recently and told me to get ready, to see, physical manifestations of Christ on the platforms in our crusades, that people will have visions of the Lord in the meetings. Those things have happened in the past, I know. In a Thailagua meeting one time in Africa, the Lord appeared to a, to the whole crowd! It is about to begin happening. I know it too! Expect it to happen also, in your own home!"
Prophecy given: Praise The Lord, TBN, television program, May 2, 2000:

Benny Hinn repeats the prophecy of a "prophetess", Ruth Heflin, that Jesus Christ will physically appear in one, or more, of Benny Hinn's crusade meetings, and will actually be on the platform with Benny Hinn. Apparently, the Lord had a difficult time getting through to Benny Hinn, because he was very busy with important matters, so He couldn't give him the revelation directly. Instead it would seem that God had to go through Ruth Heflin, and Ruth Heflin had to go through Benny Hinn's wife who then delivered the message to Benny Hinn.

Now, that difficulty should cause some questions. Perhaps Benny Hinn is using Ruth Heflin as the patsy in the whole deal. If the prophecy doesn't come true, he can say it was Ruth Heflin's prophecy and not his. He should have stuck to that course of action, but he got too enthusiastic and overstepped the plan when he stated, "I'm prophesying this. Jesus Christ the Son of God is about to appear physically in some Churches, some meetings and to many of His people. For one reason to tell you He's about to show up, to wake up, Jesus is coming saints." And later he said, "It is about to begin happening. I know it too!"

I'm guessing that Hinn has never read this in Scripture:

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Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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THIS is what Jesus Said.

I'm sure there are more False Prophecies of Benny Hinn but it really shouldn't take all that to prove what the truth of this matter is. The TRUTH is Benny Hinn has PROVEN Himself to be a False Prophet because what he Claimed came to him as Direct Revelation Knowledge from God - What he Claimed was a Prophecy given him by God, has in fact been shown to be FALSE. What more proof is needed?

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Benny Hinn = False prophet, all profit...

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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
So Itty-Bitty Girl, I do think that "good fruit" and "good works" go together, don't you?

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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
Or on what Scripture are you basing your opinion which made you say to HisGrace, "I thought I told you that works are not examples of good fruit. Who told you that works were examples of good fruit?"

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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
For all that, I tend to prefer to tie my handcuffs to this scripture, to keep myself in check:

John 8
7 So when they continued asking Him, He lifted Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

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Do you really think I am “casting a stone”? These are not my words, but they are God’s words. God’s word condemns the sinners; so I am not throwing a stone at anyone…

Pharisee : a member of an ancient Jewish sect noted for strict observance of rites and ceremonies of the traditional law
-The Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Now condemning someone to death is an old Jewish tradition, and the scribes and Pharisees wished to carry out the old practice: They were literally going to put someone to death for their sin, okay? So that is no comparison to what we are doing.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

God’s word condemns the sinners, not us. I am not putting the false teachers to death; the Word of God does.

So I will not abandon the teachings of Jesus Christ, and switch to a new doctrine. I will hold on to what the Lord said.

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Matthew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
HisGrace: Can you splain to me how you come to this place? How is it that you are able to know whether or not God sees Hinns works as good fruit?

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Because Benny Hinn professes to be a born-again believer, whether you like it or not, he is doing much to help the needy in this world and thus God surely is seeing good fruit.

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Because Benny Hinn professes to be a born-again believer, whether you like it or not, he is doing much to help the needy in this world and thus God surely is seeing good fruit.

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Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

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Originally posted by HisGrace: Let me help you out with the message folks. The following is the results of a fruitful ministry.

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…I thought I told you that works are not examples of good fruit. Who told you that works were examples of good fruit? And Benny can go on as much missions as he wanna, but what is he preaching when he get there, good fruit(lining up with God's Word) or bad fruit(not lining up with God's Word)?

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…I thought I told you {HisGrace} that works are not examples of good fruit. Who told you that works were examples of good fruit?

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And Benny can go on as much missions as he wanna, but what is he preaching when he gets there, good fruit(lining up with God's Word) or bad fruit(not lining up with God's Word)?

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What he teaches and preaches lines up close enough to 100% for me to be comfortable with what Benny teaches.

And I am also sympathetic to the temptations that a man like Benny Hinn has to experience, many of experiences which are new to Benny Hinn too and he has to many times "fly by the seat of his pants, trying to listen to the Spirit" through the hub-bub of the large, powerful ministry.

Under those circumstances I have some sympathy even for the statement which I once read I think on this BBS that Benny at one point came into the room where all the offerings had been taken and said (in my paraphrase), "Allright boys, just give me all the $50s and $100s and he stuffed them into his pockets."

I have no idea how I would react if I were in Benny Hinn's place. Would I be tempted? Would I say, "Allright, boys, give me all the $50s and $100s" out of fear that I was the only one who could really handle that pressure, or whatever.

I have no idea how I would be were I in brother Benny Hinn's shoes. One thing is sure, he has done more for the cause of the Lord Jesus Christ than I have thus far.

For all that, I tend to prefer to tie my handcuffs to this scripture, to keep myself in check:

John 8
7 So when they continued asking Him, He lifted Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

And likewise this one was justified, "Lord, have mercy on me a sinner."

So I think Benny Hinn sins, yes he does. But I sin too and you sin too. There is no one on this BBS who does not sin. And I'm talking about bornagain Christians now, not the heathen.

But it may be a question of one Christian sinning more than another Christian. Are all sins covered by the precious blood of Jesus? Yes, all sins are covered.

Shall we sin then, so that grace may abound? God forfid. Why? Because God has sent us grace in the form of the counsel of the Holy Spirit, and thereby we acquire some nice, graceful sides as well, and I think Benny Hinn has them too.

May the LORD God of Israel bless us all on this BBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the

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Originally posted by HisGrace: Let me help you out with the message folks. The following is the results of a fruitful ministry.

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Originally posted by David:
Ministry "watchdog," Wall Watchers, has issued a Donor Alert for Benny Hinn Ministries after NBC informed the public of the ministry's use of donor funds for extravagant personal gains.

Ministry "watchdog," Wall Watchers, has issued a Donor Alert for Benny Hinn Ministries/World Outreach Church (BHM), after the national television program, NBC Dateline, informed the public that the ministry's use of donor funds included extravagant personal gains and other reasons.

Wall Watchers’ CEO Rusty Leonard explained that Dateline's report of facts and allegations coupled with previous concerns about Benny Hinn's "self-taught" and "self-serving" Prosperity Theology, which promotes a feel good philosophy – has caused Wall Watchers to recommend that donors redirect gifts to a "biblically-based" ministry.

On Sunday night, March 6, 2005, Dateline NBC, which covers investigative reports and personal stories, devoted one hour to a documentary on the millions sent to Benny Hinn Ministries.

The program revealed that besides Hinn's salary being upwards of one million each year, Hinn also owns a $10 million dollar mansion, a private jet with $1.5 million in maintenance costs each year, and two Mercedes valued at $80,000 each. Layovers between Crusades at locations such as Hawaii and Milan cost from $900 to almost $3,000 for one night. Receipts showed that Hinn received $25,000 in petty cash for a Crusade that was 30 minutes from his home.

According to the statement released by Wall Watchers, "BHM has far more money than it needs to carry out its ministry."

In addition, Hinn manipulates people by promising healing to those with chronic illnesses and claiming that donations are "seeds" that will bear monetary riches at a later time.

"There was never one record that would suit the criteria for documented miracle healing," former Hinn employee, Nathan Daniel told Dateline.

After the NBC investigative report, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability issued a statement on its website informing the several thousands of visitors wanting to learn more about financial transparency, that Benny Hinn Ministries is not amongst the 1,150 accredited organizations that meet its criteria for membership.

According to Wall Watcher's Leonard, critics oppose the fact that “Hinn and his family enjoy a lavish lifestyle with funds intended for charitable purposes, preaches a fraudulent, self-serving version of the Bible, manipulates individuals at 'healing crusades' for personal gain, and the ministry is nontransparent and lacks independent board oversight."

MinistryWatch.com recommends that donors "prayerfully consider withholding contributions to Benny Hinn" and invites all Christians to join in praying for Benny Hinn and his family to "humbly submit themselves to a process of personal repentance and restoration.”

http://www.christianpost.com/article/ministries/12
52/section/ministrywatchcom.issues.donor.alert.for
.benny.hinn/1.htm

(Note from SoftTouch: To make this link work, you'll need to connect it back together. It was too long and making the page scroll so I broke it apart.)

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