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Author
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Topic: Questions Regarding Prophesy
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
Okay. There are obviously three lines of thought regarding the doctrine of regeneration. There are those that believe that, once you are saved, you are saved from the power of sin in this life as well as the end result of sin, which is spiritual death. There are those that believe that you can gain and lose salvation over and over and over again, throughout your life. And there are those that believe in Spirit-led Christianity vs. carnal Christianity. I have two questions for everyone.
1. Which one of these do you think is more biblical, and why?
2. How does your view line up with 1John?
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
Posts: 217 | From: overseas | Registered: Jun 2008
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
More osas. I don't buy into that even in the slightest. I still don't know where it comes from. I am my best example. I fell away after coming to know Him, and I am amazed at the people who will say that I must not have known Him to begin with. Moreover, I am quite aware that it could have gone either way. I might not be here today. I quite simply am fortunate to 'fear' Him. And to add to that, I am quite fortunate to fear what the devil can to to those who wander off of the narrow way. I am acutely aware.
I have seen Jesus in the face of young believers over the years. There is a shine that cannot be counterfeited, which splendedly betrays the fact that they were born again. I have come across the same people later in life. They were defensive, and perhaps ashamed, but absorbed in whatever had taken them captive. I have seen them pass away in this state. I cannot guarantee that they did not go to heaven, but I do not have a good feeling about it. I do know that they once shone for Jesus out of being born again.
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Not to be crass, but I'm going to need you to substantiate your experiences with some scriptural truth. It's not that I don't want to believe you, but the Bible does say that man's heart is deceiptfully wicked. So, how do I know that, in this instance, your heart was not just deceiving you? We really must test everything we are told, and everything we experience, by the scriptures.
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"If they fall away, it is because the were never truly regenerated (born again) to begin with."
I find this offensively strange. I cannot rationalize it.
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There is a way that seems right to man. That way leads to death. The above doctrine is easily rationalized by reading 1John. Paul told the Corinthians to test themselves, to be sure that they were in the faith. John, in 1John, shows us how to do that. Do you not believe that there is any outward evidence that a person is saved? Or do you just think that it is based on some silly profession or temporal change in behavior?
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
Posts: 217 | From: overseas | Registered: Jun 2008
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
Hoe do you "fall away" from something that you never had?
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People don't fall away from their salvation. If this were so, how could God call us His children? How could Jesus call Himself the Good Shepherd? When I use the phrase "fall away" I am refering to the group of people that, at one point in their life, professed to know Christ, but then fell away from that profession. I don't see anything in the Bible that even suggests the possibility that God will let go of that which is truly His. Do you believe that the work of salvation is a work of man or God?
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
Hoe do you "fall away" from something that you never had?
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Billy ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Billy:
A true believer will never return to living in habitual sin, though.
If they fall away, it is because the were never truly regenerated (born again) to begin with. We have a wonderful Father. He disciplines His children, because He loves them. If a 'believer' is living in sin, without the discipline of the Father, he should do as Paul exhorted the Corinthians to do. He should test himself to be sure that he is of the faith. The Good Shepherd will not let His sheep stray far. A tree that bears no fruit is dead.
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
quote:
A true believer will never return to living in habitual sin, though.
More osas. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I don't buy into that even in the slightest. I still don't know where it comes from. I am my best example. I fell away after coming to know Him, and I am amazed at the people who will say that I must not have known Him to begin with. Moreover, I am quite aware that it could have gone either way. I might not be here today. I quite simply am fortunate to 'fear' Him. And to add to that, I am quite fortunate to fear what the devil can to to those who wander off of the narrow way. I am acutely aware.
I have seen Jesus in the face of young believers over the years. There is a shine that cannot be counterfeited, which splendedly betrays the fact that they were born again. I have come across the same people later in life. They were defensive, and perhaps ashamed, but absorbed in whatever had taken them captive. I have seen them pass away in this state. I cannot guarantee that they did not go to heaven, but I do not have a good feeling about it. I do know that they once shone for Jesus out of being born again.
quote:
If they fall away, it is because the were never truly regenerated (born again) to begin with.
I find this offensively strange. I cannot rationalize it.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
I don't know if "come" to repentance is the proper terminology, here. A true believer, a son of God, is in a state of constant repentance. Perhaps, you could say that eschatology can be used by God to bring His children back into a state of repentance, after a brief falling away. A true believer will never return to living in habitual sin, though.
If they fall away, it is because the were never truly regenerated (born again) to begin with. We have a wonderful Father. He disciplines His children, because He loves them. If a 'believer' is living in sin, without the discipline of the Father, he should do as Paul exhorted the Corinthians to do. He should test himself to be sure that he is of the faith. The Good Shepherd will not let His sheep stray far. A tree that bears no fruit is dead.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
I have to add that it is there to aid 'believers' in coming to repentance, as well.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
Find the answers to these questions, and it might help you to understand New Testament prophesy a little better...
What audience was the New Testament written to?
What texts did the early church rely on for their understanding of God, and to test the teachings of the Apostles?
Which nation is most commonly associated with the term, harlot, in the Old Testament?
If Julius Caezar was the first 'king' of Rome, who would that have made the sixth?
What does "coming on the clouds" signify, in Old Testament apocolyptic language?
Why is there no mention of the fall of the temple, in AD 70, in the Book of Revelation?
In what passage(s) of the Bible is the doctrine of the rapture thoroughly handled?
(note: Proper exegesis never allows for obscure passages to interpret themselves.)
What does the number 1,000 signify, in the Old Testament?
What generation did Jesus claim would experience the fulfillment of His prophesy, in Matthew 24?
Who is the Temple, in the New Testament?
Can anyone come to the Father, except by Christ?
Can the Jewish nation come to the Father, except by Christ?
Allow me to repeat myself. Can ANYONE come to the Father, except by Christ?
Is God the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow?
Is God the same in the Old Testament as He is in the New Testament?
What was it that God saw in Abraham that He was willing to credit him with righteousness?
In Matthew 3, what does John the Baptist make of the Jewish people's claim that, based on race and nationality, they were heirs to the promise God made to Abraham?
What is it that the book of Galatians says makes us the heir of God's promise to Abraham and the sons of God?
I intensionally did not give Bible passages for each question. Why? Because I think every Christian should read the Bible for themselves, using proper hermaneutics, of course. Then, they can come to their own conclusions. I'm not here to sway opinions in one way or another, but I can see how Bible prophesy has been used to control people and sway political opinions to the detriment of Christians in other countries. I view this as an atrocity.
Bible prophesy is meant to accomplish two ends. It is supposed to remind us that the Lord is coming back, and we must be diligent in our walk with the Spirit. It is also supposed to cause unbelievers to come to repentance. I don't see where, in the Bible, that it was ever meant to be used to predict exactly what will take place in the future and either;
a) stop it from happening, or...
b) help it to happen faster.
I hope you get a lot out of this post.
In Christ,
Billy.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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