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Topic: DANIEL 11:14
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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The Kings Of The North And The South
"At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood." (Daniel 11:40)
Three separate kings are in view in this one verse and their identities must be discovered to fully understand what will happen in the days leading up to the end. They are the King of the North, the King of the South, and the one who was identified in Daniel 11:36 as the king who exalts himself. We call him the anti-Christ. All of Daniel 11:4-35 has been taken up with a discussion of various generations of the King of the North and the King of the South, but this King is neither, and subdues them both.
But first the King of the North. The vision of Daniel 11 was given in 536BC and begins with an angel telling him what would happen to the Persian Kingdom then in power. After 3 more Persian Kings, a fourth would arise, an especially rich and powerful King. This Persian King, who we know as Xerxes I, took as his queen the Jewish woman Hadassah, called Esther in the Persian language (Esther 2:16-17). He put together a mighty army and mounted an unsuccessful attempt to conquer Greece in 480BC. But (about 150 years)later the tables would be turned and a King from Greece would conquer the Persian Empire. This was fulfilled by Alexander the Great.
Then Daniel was told in effect that Alexander's Kingdom would be divided into four pieces according to the four winds of heaven, not going to his offspring. (After Alexander's death his four generals divided up the Kingdom among them.) The next 30 verses are devoted to the families of two of the four, Seleucus, known in Daniel 11 as the first King of the North and Ptolemy, the first King of the south. 135 historically confirmed prophecies are contained in the first 35 verses of Daniel 11, most having to do with the descendants of these two men. The other two generals, Cassander (West) and Lysimachus (East) are not mentioned here, but in fact Cassander went back to their homeland and ruled over Macedonia, and Lysimachus eventually lost his portion to Seleucus.
So the first kings of the North and the South were Seleucus and Ptolemy. For territory Seleucus eventually got control of what we now know as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and parts of Turkey. Reigning for a time from Babylon in modern Iraq, he built a new capital city 20 miles to the south east on the Tigris river and named it Seleucia. Ptolemy took Libya, Egypt, the Sudan, Israel and Jordan, and chose Alexandria in Egypt as his capital.
Through their descendants, these two kings fought each other for control of the known world for the next several hundred years. Then Daniel 11:33-35 brings us to the Macabean revolt when the last important King of the North, Antiochus IV Epiphanes, was defeated.
History To Prophecy
Up till now this has all been a recounting of history. Beginning in verse 36 we fast forward to the time of the end when modern versions of these two kings will go after the anti-Christ. What would make them do that? Well, here's where we get a little more speculative. There's a growing body of evidence suggesting that a struggle is looming between Arab Moslems and non-Arab Moslems for control of the emerging Islamic Empire. The goal of Islam is a single Islamic World Empire, or Caliphate as it's called, and there's fierce competition to see who can bring it about. This competition finds Iran, and the countries aligned with it, pitted against Egypt and its allies. The Iran group is largely non-Arab and Shiite and the Egyptian group is largely Arab and Sunni.
It should not surprise to students of prophecy to learn that Iran's group is almost identical in territory to the Biblical King of the North and Egypt's group is a modern equivalent of the King of the South, with the addition of Saudi Arabia. (Of all the countries involved, Syria is the biggest anomaly here, being Arab speaking and predominately Sunni. Maybe this is why Iran reportedly has a contingency plan to depose Bashar Assad if it becomes necessary.)
But remember, according to Daniel 12:1 we're talking about the beginning of the Great Tribulation here. Both Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39 will occur before this competition for Moslem supremacy comes to a head. This tells us that while Syria will cease to be a factor after Isaiah 17 and is not even mentioned in Ezekiel 38, Iran will neither be pre-emptively destroyed by the US and/or Israel (even if an attempt is made) nor completely taken out of play because of Ezekiel's battle, and will recover to contend for Moslem supremacy.
Ezekiel's phrase “ send down fire” (Ezekiel 39:6), which many believe to be a reference to nuclear warfare, is directed at Magog, the distant coastlines (somewhere beyond the Mediterranean) and the battle field in Israel. No mention is made of any destruction in Persia (Iran). Whatever Iranian forces are involved in Israel will be decimated, but if current trends continue, while Iran assumes the role of leader and Russia provides the weaponry, it's Hezbollah, the Palestinians, and mujahideen from all over the Islamic world who may be putting up most of the manpower.
Followers of middle East politics can already spot the jockeying between these two groups for Islamic supremacy. For instance, remember how Osama bin Laden, a Sunni from Saudi Arabia, condemned the Shiite Hezbollah for “prematurely” going to war with Israel in the summer of 2006? Even though Israel is their common enemy, he warned the Arab world not to support the Hezbollah action. And notice how Iran has displaced Saudi Arabia as the primary sponsor for Hamas, even though Hamas is Sunni. To win this competition, you have to control Jerusalem. All of Iran's positioning with Hamas, Syria, and Hezbollah is directed toward that end. (Recently Iran invited the leaders of 10 Palestinian terrorist groups to Tehran to discuss ways to re-unify the fractured Palestinian movement, hoping to further insert themselves into the area's politics.)
If this view is correct we should expect to see more jockeying between these two groups, building to a point where at the outset of the Great Tribulation only a king superior in power and authority to both can unite them. This superior King will have to be an Islamic figure with an even greater right to head the Caliphate than either the King of the North or the King of the South, and even then they won't give up without a battle.
A Non-Traditional Perspective
Of course this view argues that the one world religion of the last days will be Islam, not some version of Catholicism or New Age pantheism. And it makes it more likely that when the anti-Christ emerges, he'll come from the Eastern leg of the Roman Empire, not the West. Constantinople (Istanbul), is also known as a city on seven hills, is a former capitol of the Roman Empire, and can just as easily fulfill the prophecy of Rev. 17:9 as Rome does.
As details of Islamic eschatology become more widely known, prophecy students are discovering striking similarities between descriptions of al Mahdi, sometimes called the Moslem Messiah, or 12th Imam, and a figure Christians call the anti-Christ. I've made mention of them in previous articles, how in their respective prophecies both come on the scene during a time of great turmoil on Earth, both come claiming a desire to restore peace, both have a seven year reign, both head a one world religion and one world government, both claim supernatural origins, and both reigns end in a battle between good and evil that brings Earth's final judgment.
He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyans and Nubians (Sudan) in submission. (Daniel 11:41-42)
This view also provides the first plausible explanation I've seen for why Daniel was told that present day Jordan will be spared in this Grand Caliph's “holy” quest to put the world under submission, even though Egypt, Lybia and the Sudan will be forced to bow. Sunni Moslems believe that the Caliph has to be an Arab from the Hashemite family of which King Abdullah II of Jordan is the current patriarch. This helps explain Abdullah's extra-ordinary influence in middle eastern affairs and why he “unofficially” controls the Temple Mount. The Hashemites once held sway over the entire Middle East and served as custodians of all Moslem Holy Sites.
I'm not saying that Abdullah II is the anti-Christ. Remember, Daniel 11:41 says that Jordan and its leaders will be delivered from the anti-Christ's control. I believe that his kingdom will be left alone out of deference to his genealogy as the 43rd direct descendant of the prophet through Mohamed's daughter Fatima. Incredibly, in a way only God could manage, this makes Petra, a mountainous area about 3 hours south of Jordan's capitol Ahman, the perfect hiding place for the believing Jews during the Great Tribulation.
And this view explains why, with all the quicker and easier ways of executing people available, the one mentioned in Revelation is beheading. We've only recently been made aware of Islamic terrorists' preference for this method. For generations Biblical scholars were ridiculed for their insistence on a literal understanding of beheading as the method of execution in Tribulation times. That all changed when we got to Iraq.
The biggest mistake the West makes is to ignore the religious undercurrents in the Islamic Middle East. As the Palestinians and Iraqis have already shown, and the Lebanese are about to show, Moslems will always choose to be governed by Islamic law rather than western style democracy, given the chance. Their religion teaches them that Islamic law is more just. And the goal of Islam is a world wide Caliphate where there are only two kinds of people, those who submit and those who are targets for execution.
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. (Rev. 13:15)
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. (Rev. 20:4)
If you listen carefully, you can almost hear the Footsteps of the Messiah. 09-08-07
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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Iran and Russia!
Have you read the news headlines? If not do so, then go read Eze 38 and 39.
Iran is Persia,......... Russia is the King of the north. Bible prophecy is lining up right before our eyes, ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif) just see it!
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Isaiah
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Member # 6699
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First -some background.....
Daniell 11 deals mostly with the relationship over time between the king of the north and the king of the south -south and north being referenced generally from Jerusalem. Some have thought the king of the north to be Russia in these times, as Russia is as far north as possible, but Russia is farther north than the king of the north -as the king of the north is eventually troubled by tidings from his north and east (Russia/China) (verse 44). The king of the north is generally the rulership of Europe -and there will have been many individuals who have filled this role (verses 20-21) -though the most important is the last king of the north. The E.U. is now this kingdom ( http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/eu_army.htm ), though the last king of the north is not yet in power -yet he certainly works behind the scenes even now. The king of the south are, generally, the Islamic nations, though Iran, specifically, has assumed this role today.
The last king of the north is he who will eventually place the "abomination of desolation" (which -this time -is the destruction of Jerusalem[Luke 21:20]-as he will eventually end up there -more on that later)....1,290 days after he and his take away the "daily sacrifice" (Daniel 11:31, 12:11) -more specifically -he will be responsible for -through the man of sin and the synagogue of Satan (II Thes 2:3-9, Rev 3:9)-persecuting the true church so harshly God will lead them into the wilderness, sparing them from the tribulation (Daniell 11:30-32, Rev 3:10, 12:14) though many others -a great multitude -will be saved out of the tribulation to follow (Daniel 11:33-35, Rev 12:17, 7:9-14).
The returning Christ will be the last end of this king of the north (though Russia and China will have sent him packing to the holy land)(Daniel 11:45) -who is also called the Assyrian (Ezekiel 17, 31:3, Isaiah 30:31, 14:25, Isaiah 10:5-25), and the Prince of Tyre(Ezekiel 28 -Satan being the king of Tyre who gives him his strength [Daniel 8:23-25]) -but is best known as the beast (Rev 13:18) -who will reign 3 and 1/2 years (Dan 7:25, 12:7) -over the beast that rises from abyss (an empire). He and his kings will eventually -literally -attempt to make war with the returning Christ (Rev 17:12-14).
However....Before this, The Islamic nations will have pushed at him -and he will have subdued them -passing over and making his way to Jerusalem(Daniel 11:40) -though the two powers will have often struggled with each other before this last king of the north rules( verses 15-20).
Now -Daniell 11:14 refers to a different group of people -DANIEL'S PEOPLE -more specifically, the robbers (H 1121 & H 6530 -essentially, sons, robbers, stewards, tumutuous ones,tyrants, ravenous destroyers [sons of perdition{warmongers}]) among his people -Israel. This does not refer specifically to the modern nation of Israel, which is made up mostly of the house of Judah -only a few of the twelve tribes -but mostly to the corporate war machine of America, etc... Many Israelites do not know they are Israelites, but they came to their great birthrights regardless (Isaiah 1:3, Amos 9:9) The Danes (of Dan), The British (brith ish), etc...(Gen 35:11, 48:13-19 -US and Britain -also see Ezekiel 17 for a riddle and parable about the parallel migration of the ruling and warring class of Assyria and the house of Israel -as well as their relationship over time (including the outcomes of world wars I, and II -and into what is still future [WWIII -or the tribulation])
Iran -the king of the south -has taken center stage in the world today. Many now stand up against them. There is already tension between them and the present leadership of the EU, and obviously the United States and Israel -
The EU now does not want a nuclear-armed Iran -and certainly not one with the will and perhaps even intent to use nukes -persuasively or literally -against Israel, anyone else -or eventually the EU. Israel certainly does not want Iran to have nukes as Iran has made it clear they would like to see a map of the world sans Israel-and essentially told the EU that if they love Israel so much they should make room for them there -and the U.S. is without doubt against the idea -not admirers of -or being extremely popular with Iran, either.
But.....In the end, it will be the eventual leadership (the beast) of the E.U. who overcomes Iran, but also who deals a double-cross to Israel -destroying by peace. What about the U.S.?
As this corporate war machine spoken of represents the part of America that has not been sold to the Saudis or Europe (Daimler/Chrysler, etc...) -which doesn't leave much -should their present plans fail (turning to God and changing the plan and our ways is an option), it could very well spell economic disaster for the US -which will make way for the fulfillment of Isaiah 10. We need to seriously think about -and change -how we treat people -here -and abroad -as the reasons for our fall are the clearly stated therein. All human rule will falll to Christ, anyway, but I'd rather see a peaceful transition if possible.
Dan 11:14 And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.
Isa 10:1 Woe unto them that decree unrighteous decrees, and that write grievousness which they have prescribed;
Isa 10:2 To turn aside the needy from judgment, and to take away the right from the poor of my people, that widows may be their prey, and that they may rob the fatherless!
Isa 10:3 And what will ye do in the day of visitation, and in the desolation which shall come from far? to whom will ye flee for help? and where will ye leave your glory?
Isa 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
Jer 18:10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Posts: 288 | Registered: Aug 2007
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