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Topic: "Gay Christians" is an oxymoron!!! Sexual perversion is an Abomination!!!
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
Obviously even in Scripture we see that believers sometimes sin grievously and over long periods of time. David is one example (2 Samuel 11-12; Psalm 51); Lot is another (2 Peter 2:7-9). Christians who sin in such a fashion should not expect to enjoy assurance, however. Of course, true believers do not lose their salvation when they sin (cf. Romans 8:35-39), but even David testified that he had forfeited the joy of salvation (Psalm 51:12).
When believers sin, they dishonor Christ (1 Corinthians 6:15-17). They grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). They subject themselves to the discipline of a loving Father (Hebrews 12:5-7). If people can continue in sin without experiencing divine discipline, something is terribly wrong: "If you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons" (v. 8).
As for how to deal with a sinning believer, our Lord established a step-by-step process:
If your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer. Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst. (Matthew 18:15-20)
Notice that the discipline process Jesus outlined is specifically intended to determine whether a person in sin is a true brother or an outsider. "If he listens to you [if he repents], you have won your brother" (v. 15). But ultimately, "if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer" (v. 17)--that is, regard him as an unbeliever and pursue him evangelistically. The Lord goes on to state that He personally mediates His rule on earth through that process (v. 20).
No one who persists in willful, deliberate sin and rebellion against the Lord should be encouraged with any promise of assurance. If you know someone like that who professes faith in Christ, follow the process of Matthew 18 and call that person to repentance. But don't encourage him or her with the promise of security. Such a person may be clinging to a false hope.
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Sa:ji:sdo:de
Advanced Member
Member # 13749
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quote:
Originally posted by KnowHim:
If the phrase “gay Christian” refers to a person who actively, perpetually, and unrepentantly lives a homosexual lifestyle – no, it is not possible for such a person to truly be a Christian.
According to Rom 5:6-11, LGBT were actively, perpetually, and unrepentantly living a homosexual lifestyle when Christ died for them; and according to Gal 5:13, those same LGBT have the freedom to continue living an active, perpetual, and unrepentant homosexual lifestyle if they so choose.
The same goes for fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers.
God has made it possible to escape a fate in the brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 by grace rather than by works so that everyone, regardless of the magnitude of their sinful habits, has a shot. The moment someone adds self denial and/or self control to their plan of salvation, they have changed God's plan from a salvation by grace to essentially a salvation by works. A salvation by works just simply doesn't work; nobody has ever succeeded at it and no one ever will because it is God's stubborn determination that any and all plans of salvation that depend upon one's behavior not get past Him. It's Christ's crucifixion or nothing; that's the deal.†. John 3:14-17 . . Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
The incident to which Christ referred is located at Num 21:5-9.
Long story short: Yhvh's people became sick and tired of living in the desert and eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better accommodations, they became hostile and confrontational.
In response to their insolence; Yhvh sent a swarm of deadly poisonous reptiles among them; which began striking people; and every strike was 100% fatal, no exceptions. In no time at all, much people of Israel died. Then those not yet dead got nervous and appealed to Moses for help. In reply; the Lord instructed Moses to construct a model of the beasts and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look to it for immunity.
Now the key issue here is that the model was the only God-given remedy for the people's terminal condition-- not purity, not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church attendance, not missionary work, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not the Sabbath, not charity, not good deeds, not good behavior, not piety, not Bible study and Sunday school, not catechism or yeshiva, not one's religion of choice, not self denial and/or self control, not the so-called golden rule, not vows of poverty and/or chastity, not the Ten Commandments, not the Eucharist; no, none of that: not even prayers. The model was it; viz: it was all or nothing at all-- there was no other option. Whoever failed to look to that model for immunity died: no exceptions.
In other words then: Christ's sacrifice of himself to satisfy justice for the sins of the world is the only God-given option for protection from the second death depicted at Rev 20:11-15. The default is terminal; no exceptions. People relying upon self denial and/or self control instead of putting all their trust in Christ's crucifixion, are dead men walking.
†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him will not be condemned; but whoever does not believe has already been condemned.
Supposing someone is interested in taking Christ at his word? What to do about it?
Well; all that they have to do is simply speak up; like this:
"God; I am a sinner. I would like to take advantage of your son's death."
That prayer need not be public. It can be spoken in the privacy of one's own bedroom or even in a restroom where they work.
There's only one catch to that prayer. The speaker has to be convinced in their own mind that Jesus' Father is really out there or they will be speaking into the air and get no results.
†. Heb 11:6 . .Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for anyone who approaches God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him.
How is it that I am so confident that God will honor the prayer I recommended? Well; again, I'm taking Christ at his word and acting on faith..
†. John 6:37 . . Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
. . . And this is the will of the one who sent me: that I should not lose anything of what He gave me, but that I should raise it the last day. For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him the last day.
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KnowHim
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“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). There is a tendency to declare homosexuality as the worst of all sins. While it is undeniable, biblically speaking, that homosexuality is immoral and unnatural (Romans 1:26-27), in no sense does the Bible describe homosexuality as an unforgivable sin. Nor does the Bible teach that homosexuality is a sin Christians will never struggle against.
Perhaps that is the key phrase in the question of whether it is possible to be a gay Christian: “struggle against.” It is possible for a Christian to struggle with homosexual temptations. Many homosexuals who become Christians have ongoing struggles with homosexual feelings and desires. Some strongly heterosexual men and women have experienced a “spark” of homosexual interest at some point in their lives. Whether or not these desires and temptations exist does not determine whether a person is a Christian. The Bible is clear that no Christian is sinless (1 John 1:8,10). While the specific sin / temptation varies from one Christian to another, all Christians have struggles with sin, and all Christians sometimes fail in those struggles (1 Corinthians 10:13).
What differentiates a Christian’s life from a non-Christian’s life is the struggle against sin. The Christian life is a progressive journey of overcoming the “acts of the flesh” (Galatians 5:19-21) and allowing God’s Spirit to produce the “fruit of the Spirit” (Galatians 5:22-23). Yes, Christians sin, sometimes horribly. Sadly, sometimes Christians are indistinguishable from non-Christians. However, a true Christian will always repent, will always eventually return to God, and will always resume the struggle against sin. But the Bible gives no support for the idea that a person who perpetually and unrepentantly engages in sin can indeed be a Christian. Notice 1 Corinthians 6:11, "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
First Corinthians 6:9-10 lists sins that, if indulged in continuously, identify a person as not being redeemed—not being a Christian. Often, homosexuality is singled out from this list. If a person struggles with homosexual temptations, that person is presumed to be unsaved. If a person actually engages in homosexual acts, that person is definitely thought to be unsaved. However, the same assumptions are not made, at least not with the same emphasis, regarding other sins in the list: fornication (pre-marital sex), idolatry, adultery, thievery, covetousness, alcoholism, slander, and deceit. It is inconsistent, for example, to declare those guilty of pre-marital sex as “disobedient Christians,” while declaring homosexuals definitively non-Christians.
Is it possible to be a gay Christian? If the phrase “gay Christian” refers to a person who struggles against homosexual desires and temptations – yes, a “gay Christian” is possible. However, the description “gay Christian” is not accurate for such a person, since he/she does not desire to be gay, and is struggling against the temptations. Such a person is not a “gay Christian,” but rather is simply a struggling Christian, just as there are Christians who struggle with fornication, lying, and stealing. If the phrase “gay Christian” refers to a person who actively, perpetually, and unrepentantly lives a homosexual lifestyle – no, it is not possible for such a person to truly be a Christian.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Sa:ji:sdo:de
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quote:
Originally posted by Redsickle7:
The bible seems to be against so many things, why is homosexuality so prominent?
The Bible places dishonesty in the same category as immorality.
†. Rev 21:27 . . Nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it
†. Rev 22:15 . . Outside are immoral persons and everyone who loves and practices lying.
I read in an article recently in our local paper that dishonesty is normal. In other words: it's wired into the human brain to be dishonest not only with others, but with its own self too.
The human mind's ability to rationalize misconduct is mentioned in the Bible.
†. Rom 2:13-16 . .When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law; since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
You see, most everybody instinctively knows that dishonesty is wrong; even little kids. But people lie anyway and then often try to justify their lies with rationalizing; which in reality is just more dishonesty.
Well; I'm not an adulterer, nor do I sleep around, nor am LGBT, but nevertheless, I am dishonest; so according to the Bible, people like me are in just as much danger of the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15 as people engaged in one or more forms of immorality.
But back to the original question: Why is homosexuality so prominent?
Well; we could ask a similar question about breast cancer; seeing as how lung cancer kills more women than breast cancer. And I would hazard a guess that there is far and away more immortality among straight people than LGBT. So why is breast cancer emphasized instead of lung cancer, and why are LGBT targeted instead of all the straight people that sleep around?
I think it's because human nature tends to grade on a curve. In other words; human nature tends to think that the LGBT version of immortality is worse than the straight version, and we tend to think that breast cancer is worse then lung cancer when in reality both are cancer, and sleeping around is sleeping around no mater how we might rationalize our particular version of it.
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calledoutones777
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Actually the Father's plans were not always male and female. When the Father said.."Let us make man" this man that the Father was speaking about was our "spirit man" which is the man that is made in the image of the Father for He is Spirit and so are we "outside" of these male and female flesh bodies that the Father only created for us to use, only while we were in this land of the Amorites completing our free will test to see who we would serve the god's of the Amorites in which land you are living in as we speak,and the "god's" that they have taught the Father's children to worship was the "god's of the Amorites who were Allah, Mohammad, Buddha, and Jesus. They have deceived the Father's children into worsiping them "instead" of the true Christ Yahoshua, whose name is the only name that we can be saved through, because it is only in His name, that all three witnesses can be found within His own name. What other name can do this? None.
This is why it is only through Christ Yahoshua that we can be saved, because it is His name that is carrying the three witnesses which is the Father, the Holy Spirit and the word, in 1John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Actually the Father never created a female spirit body in the first earth age, only because He never needed anyone in the spirit realm to be born from a female "womb" in the spirit realm. Whatever the Father need of us, He created it Himself. It was only since He separated Himself from us, by putting us, meaning our spirit man into these male and female flesh bodies that He only created to be used in this second earth age we are living in today, in Genesis 1:27
Also at this same time the Father was bringing into existence the "nations" of the world, calling them the Gentile Nations of the world, better known to us as "mankind". The word "Gentiles" simply means all of the "races" OTHER than the "Judaic" race, which the man Adom, was formed two thousand years later to be the man to represent his race which would be called the "Judaic" race and those that would come from His loins.
Again, this didn't happen until two thousand years after the Father brought into existence the nations of the world, created in the races and nations in which the Father had created them to become, fulfilling the Father scriptures in...
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 5:1-2 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; [2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
At the end of this six 'day' was considered the closing of a ‘’day, which was a thousand years that the Gentile Nations were in the earth, reproducing bringing into the earth their children after the races and nations that God had created their seed to bring forth.
This one 'day' to the Father is a thousand years to man... 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Then the Father rested on the Sabbath day. Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
This one “day" was another thousand years that the Father rested before He even put his hands to even ‘forming" the man Adom, which would be the first man to represent his race, which was called the ‘’Judaic’‘ race and those that would eventually come from his loins. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The Father never taught us that He created the man and woman, Adom and Eve. He said that. He "formed" them, first forming the man Adom, then Eve, fulfilling the Father's scripture in...
1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
When the Father is speaking to the man ADAM, in the Holy Bible. He is not speaking to these flesh bodies ever. For it is the spirit man that the Father is only speaking to in the HOly Bible that He is calling by the name of ADAM. So actually when you are saying the word ADAM in the Holy Bible, you are saying one of two things, "mankind" or "man" both are called ADAM by the Father in the Holy Bible, only because He speaksing directly to the spirit man that is the man, that is also made in the exact image of the Father, for He is Spirit a so are we "outside" of these male and female flesh bodies that He only created for us to be able to come into this second earth age to complete, our free will test that the Father was sending us into this world that doesn't belong to us at all.
It is the spirit man that the Father is only concerned about, because the these male and female flesh bodies profits nothing to the Father, John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
So next time someone says to you... Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Lord, then you can ask them what body are you speaking about, because we all have two bodies, and it is the spirit man body is the body that is called the temple of the Lord, because it is the our spirit man that is the body that our souls are living in, outside of these male and female flesh bodies that the Father only put us into this second earth age. We outside of these male and female flesh bodies are millions of years old. The Father told us this when he said that He created the "behemoths" with "thee", meaning with us when we were all were in our spirit bodies and were called son's of god/Most High in Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Please don't call this behemoth and ox, because it said that He eats grass "as" an ox, did say that is was an ox. This behemoth had a tail the width of a cedar tree truck, Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
And drank water as though he could drink up the river Jorden, Job 40:23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
This was when we were all in our spirit bodies, and remember the Father never created a female spirit body, only because the Father didn't have a need for a female womb, no one was being born of a female's womb, in the first earth age we called heaven on earth, as it was in the beginning so shall it be again. The Father never created a female spirit body, because He didn't need a "womb" in the spirit realm.
We were all male in spirit for, without the reproduction organs, because we didn't have a need for a womb, in the spirit realm, and there is no taking of marriage in the spirit realm either for we are like angels,For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
The Father did have a need to create a female flesh body to be able to use her womb to bring His children that as still in our spirit bodies, through a female womb of our mother's to be born into these male and female flesh bodies, that He created for us to have in Genesis 1:27
in the first earth age, we called heaven, on earth, because heaven is where ever the Father is and at that time, millions of years ago, he was dwelling with us that he called simply 'man' which means the "spirit man". Job38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
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Betty Louise
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I believe it is because the first Union was Adam and Eve. God's plan was always man and woman. The devil preverted the love of a couple by convincing man to be with man and woman to be with woman. The devil took something beautiful and natural and turned it into evil.
Betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Redsickle7
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The bible seems to be against so many things, why is homosexuality so prominent?
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BillyG
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I'm heterosexual and I'm quite familiar with all the passages in God's Word in which clearly God makes it known He hates homosexuality, but ...
regarding the statement, "Gay Christians" is an oxymoron!!!" :
Please consider this :
If the statement "Gay Christians" is an oxymoron!!!" is true, it would be equally true to say, "Carnal Christians" is an oxymoron!!! " And we all know there are all too many carnal christians prevalent within the Body of Christ. As carnal christians exist, so do gay Christians. Carnal christians live primarily for themselves ( not Christ ) and so do gay Christians - but THEY BOTH ARE CHRISTIANS in the process of sanctification. They both are manifesting spoiled fruit, just from differing branches of a tree.
God detests lukewarm-ness too ( Rev 3:16 ) - saying He'd spew these out of His mouth. But to these He's speaking to the CHURCH of the Laodiceans, indicating they ARE Christians; in need of repentance, yes, BUT CHRISTIANS nonetheless.
Gays are therefore our brothers and God wants us to love them. We should not enable them, but we should love them.
Please let us remember it is God's position to judge Christians; the Holy Spirit's position to convict them of sin; and our position is to love them!
" My beloved, " writes Paul, " as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling ( Ph'p 2:12 ). "
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GISMYS16
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"Gay Christians" is an oxymoron!!! Sexual perversion is an Abomination!!!
God's Word says==Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 corinthians 6:9-11
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