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Author
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Topic: Eternal Life -- Tradition vs Scripture
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB, you are full of language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. You are a wildman as your displayed name identifies you. I pray God forgive you your double tongue.
I do not mix Law and Grace; I have proved over and over by my post, I only believe that true saving grace is God writing his Law upon the heart. The teaching I present is what Paul clearly writes in Romans 7:12, "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."
but you do..
Im sorry for my in your face type of way.
Come to Dearborn..
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
WildB, you are full of language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. You are a wildman as your displayed name identifies you. I pray God forgive you your double tongue.
I do not mix Law and Grace; I have proved over and over by my post, I only believe that true saving grace is God writing his Law upon the heart. The teaching I present is what Paul clearly writes in Romans 7:12, "Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
wiildB, I'd be ashamed to explain my Gospel too, when it curses Jesus and the other disciples.
Your gospel is mixed with law!
Your right to be ashamed.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
wiildB, I'd be ashamed to explain my Gospel too, when it curses Jesus and the other disciples.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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thefixer
Advanced Member
Member # 8837
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posted
Dear brother Wild Bill,
I'm afraid I do not have a Gospel. However I do know of one that belongs to my Savior. If you are truly serious about hearing it, and not just being foolish, I would love to tell it to you. If you are just poking for the sake of poking why don't you stop and tell us your 'Gospel" if you have one.
May you find what you are seeking in the person on the cross.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
Dear brothers becausehelives and Wild Bill,
`THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL. It doesn't matter if John, Paul, Peter, the man standing on a soapbox on the corner that everyone thinks is crazy, preaches it. IT IS ALWAYS the same gospel...'believe in Jesus, listen to his words, take them to heart', and He assures us of our place with Him (This comes from my heart, is it not what scripture says in essence?). Other than by believing in Jesus, we can do nothing to earn a place next to Him. It will not matter if we obeyed the Commandments and did great works, even works that glorify God. Jesus will cast us away.
Also, even after we accept Jesus as our Savior we can err in doing 'good works'. If those good works are to bring praise to ourselves we are not doing good works in the eyes of God. Our good works should glorify God's Kingdom and show others His heart and His Love. This I feel is the true way to see a person's faithfulness to Jesus.
May your works glorify God and may your faith in Him remain strong.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Amen Brother LeRoy
OK TELL THE baseball fans your Gospel.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
Dear brothers becausehelives and Wild Bill,
`THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL. It doesn't matter if John, Paul, Peter, the man standing on a soapbox on the corner that everyone thinks is crazy, preaches it. IT IS ALWAYS the same gospel...'believe in Jesus, listen to his words, take them to heart', and He assures us of our place with Him (This comes from my heart, is it not what scripture says in essence?). Other than by believing in Jesus, we can do nothing to earn a place next to Him. It will not matter if we obeyed the Commandments and did great works, even works that glorify God. Jesus will cast us away.
Also, even after we accept Jesus as our Savior we can err in doing 'good works'. If those good works are to bring praise to ourselves we are not doing good works in the eyes of God. Our good works should glorify God's Kingdom and show others His heart and His Love. This I feel is the true way to see a person's faithfulness to Jesus.
May your works glorify God and may your faith in Him remain strong.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Amen Brother LeRoy
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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thefixer
Advanced Member
Member # 8837
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posted
Dear brother Wild Bill,
It seems to me that I do not know what you define as the Gospel. Would you please enlighten me so that I may have a greater insight as to the essence of the issue. I have always understood the Gospel to equate with the Good News of the arrival of the Messiah and all that He will do for those who believe. Am I wrong? Did not Jesus instruct His disciples to go out and preach the Gospel (Good News)? Did He not do this prior to His arrest?
I eagerly await correction.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by thefixer:
My dear brother Wild Bill,
You ask."What GOSPEL did the thief on the cross get?" I ask that you look at the interchange between the thief and Jesus as they hung on their respective crosses. It would seem to me that in the act of Jesus' Crucifixion, the thief had seen the Gospel unfolding in that process, recognized it as such, accepted Jesus for who He was, and asked Jesus to forgive him when he asked to be remembered by Jesus. He obviously had faith that Jesus was going to defeat death because he said"...when you come into your Kingdom". Is that NOT the essence of the Gospel of Jesus?
May God strengthen your understanding and keep you.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
No.
For as that point in time Paradise was next to Hell.
Had not been liberated.
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thefixer
Advanced Member
Member # 8837
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posted
My dear brother Wild Bill,
You ask."What GOSPEL did the thief on the cross get?" I ask that you look at the interchange between the thief and Jesus as they hung on their respective crosses. It would seem to me that in the act of Jesus' Crucifixion, the thief had seen the Gospel unfolding in that process, recognized it as such, accepted Jesus for who He was, and asked Jesus to forgive him when he asked to be remembered by Jesus. He obviously had faith that Jesus was going to defeat death because he said"...when you come into your Kingdom". Is that NOT the essence of the Gospel of Jesus?
May God strengthen your understanding and keep you.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by thefixer:
Dear brothers becausehelives and Wild Bill,
`THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL. It doesn't matter if John, Paul, Peter, the man standing on a soapbox on the corner that everyone thinks is crazy, preaches it. IT IS ALWAYS the same gospel...'believe in Jesus, listen to his words, take them to heart', and He assures us of our place with Him (This comes from my heart, is it not what scripture says in essence?). Other than by believing in Jesus, we can do nothing to earn a place next to Him. It will not matter if we obeyed the Commandments and did great works, even works that glorify God. Jesus will cast us away.
Also, even after we accept Jesus as our Savior we can err in doing 'good works'. If those good works are to bring praise to ourselves we are not doing good works in the eyes of God. Our good works should glorify God's Kingdom and show others His heart and His Love. This I feel is the true way to see a person's faithfulness to Jesus.
May your works glorify God and may your faith in Him remain strong.
What GOSPEL did the thief on the cross get?
Christ had not died or risen yet?
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
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That is all.....
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thefixer
Advanced Member
Member # 8837
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posted
Dear brothers becausehelives and Wild Bill,
`THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL. It doesn't matter if John, Paul, Peter, the man standing on a soapbox on the corner that everyone thinks is crazy, preaches it. IT IS ALWAYS the same gospel...'believe in Jesus, listen to his words, take them to heart', and He assures us of our place with Him (This comes from my heart, is it not what scripture says in essence?). Other than by believing in Jesus, we can do nothing to earn a place next to Him. It will not matter if we obeyed the Commandments and did great works, even works that glorify God. Jesus will cast us away.
Also, even after we accept Jesus as our Savior we can err in doing 'good works'. If those good works are to bring praise to ourselves we are not doing good works in the eyes of God. Our good works should glorify God's Kingdom and show others His heart and His Love. This I feel is the true way to see a person's faithfulness to Jesus.
May your works glorify God and may your faith in Him remain strong.
Your brother in Christ, LeRoy (thefixer).
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
The utterances and Commands of YHVH never change or become obsolete - His admonitions and precepts are everlasting - they shall endure forever, The Scriptures have this to say concerning them:
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away” (Matt. 24:35)
In order to impress upon men the vital importance - the absoluteness - of YHVH's every revelation, warning, and pronouncement, Messiah made this declaration:
“Till heaven and earth disappear, not one yud (the smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet) not one little stroke shall disappear from the Law until its purpose is achieved” (Matt. 5:18).
The Apostle John in 1 John told us, reminiscent of Revelations 2:2, to test every spirit to see whether it comes from God. There were several criteria he gave to tell the liars from the true. He said:
‘We belong to YHVH, and everyone who knows YHVH will listen to us" [i.e., the twelve apostles]. But the people who don’t know YHVH won’t listen to us. That is how we can tell the Spirit that speaks the truth from the one that tells lies.” (1 John 4:6)
Now where did John get that idea? YAHU’SHUAH in Matthew 10:14-15 said: “And whosoever shall not receive you (His appointed 12 Apostles), nor hear your words, as you go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
Those who reject the twelve apostles were condemned by YAHU’SHUAH Himself. The words of the twelve apostles, if rejected, cause us to be at risk of the fire suffered by Sodom and Gomorrah. This is not because their words are prophetic, but because of the Message the twelve personally carried from YAHU’SHUAH. If rejected, it puts us at risk of judgment by fire.
Paul did not abolish the Law. He said that by faith we "establish the Law” (Rom. 3:31);
"Wherefore the Law is holy, and the Commandment is holy, and just and good" (Rom.7:12); .
"The things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Cor.14:37);
"Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandments of God" (1 Cor. 7:19).
Even Paul admitted, “I worship the God of my ancestors, retaining my belief in all points of the Law ...” (Acts 24:14).
There is then, value in keeping the Commandments of God - even Paul says so! Let us test these last statements of the apostle, by the words of Messiah "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the Commandments" (Matthew 19:17).
Where Paul does not make things clear, we must go to the words of Messiah for clarification.
The apostle wrote: "The whole Law is summarised in a single Command, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’” (Gal. 5:14).
Let us not presume that the apostle misspoke himself, for he went into much detail on this matter in the book of Romans: "If you love your fellow men, you have carried out your obligations ... All the Commandments ... are summed up in this single Command: you must love your neighbour as yourself” (Rom.13:8,9).
Let us now turn to Messiah Himself and compare statements : ". . , a lawyer, asked Him (Messiah) a question . . . saying, . , , 'Which is the Greatest Commandment of the Law?' Messiah said unto him: 'You must love YHVH your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the First and Greatest Commandment. And the second resembles it: You must love your neighbour as yourself. On these TWO Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets'" (Matt. 22:35-40).
Certainly a great and a vital spiritual difference! How could we take Paul's version above that of the Lawmaker Himself?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
too tired to notice a joke then.......
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
dont know about that........even too tired to put the o in ok.........lol
so
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
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posted
dont know about that........even too tired to put the o in ok.........lol
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
k here
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
lol are you fallin asleep on your watch?
I am asking you if you will please tell me what you mean when you say "add law"?
lol, lets not play "whos on first?" again now
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi again Wild B,
You said:
Why
My response:
So I can answer your question
With love in Jesus, Daniel
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Wild B,
I see that you are online "live" right now.
Would you please describe to me what you mean when you say............."add law"
why...
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Wild B,
I see that you are online "live" right now.
Would you please describe to me what you mean when you say............."add law"
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Wild B,
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't believing that there are 2 gospels a contradiction..........
1. the Gospel of the Kingdom
and
2. the Gospel of grace
Wouldnt you have to say that one is false?
With love in Jesus, Daniel
So you believe that you can add law to Grace as well?
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oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Wild B,
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't believing that there are 2 gospels a contradiction..........
1. the Gospel of the Kingdom
and
2. the Gospel of grace
Wouldnt you have to say that one is false?
With love in Jesus, Daniel
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached?
it is a simple straight foward yes or no answer...
So you believe that you can add law to Grace?
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached?
it is a simple straight foward yes or no answer...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
scared to see what the Lord has been tell-in ya?
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
scared to answer WildB...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
So becauseHElives, do believe that the other gospel Paul warned about was what the legalistic religious were trying to do to The Gospel of Grace?
The ceremonial law “yes”
The 10 commandments “no”
I answered your question WildB...
Will you answer my simple question....?
quote:
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached?
Your contraindication gives you your answer.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
So becauseHElives, do believe that the other gospel Paul warned about was what the legalistic religious were trying to do to The Gospel of Grace?
The ceremonial law “yes”
The 10 commandments “no”
I answered your question WildB...
Will you answer my simple question....?
quote:
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached? ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
So becauseHElives, do believe that the other gospel Paul warned about was what the legalistic religious were trying to do to The Gospel of Grace?
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
So WildB , do you believe Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached and the Apostles preached?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
THE TRUTH
by Cornelius R. Stam
The Bible is unique among books as Christ was among men, in that it is the only book that claims repeatedly and consistently to be the truth.
It begins with the majestic words: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It does not argue the case; it simply states it. The sacramental introduction to the prophecies is: "Thus saith the Lord," and a hundred fulfilled prophecies prove that the Bible is indeed the Word of God -- the truth.
Without apology it refers to:
The "manifestation of the truth" (IICor.4:2).
The "knowledge of the truth" (IITim.3:7).
Those who "have erred concerning the truth" (II Tim.2:18).
Those who "resist the truth" (IITim.3:8).
Those who "hold [hold down, suppress] the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1: 18).
Those who "turn away their ears from the truth" (IITim.4:4).
Those who "believe and know the truth" (ITim.4:3).
Those who "acknowledge the truth" (Tit.1:1).
Our Lord said to His Father: "Thy Word is truth" (John 17:17).
Paul wrote to those who were saved when they "heard the word of truth, the gospel of [their] salvation" (Eph.1:13).
Where the truth is concerned God's Word is all we need, for:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction in righteousness;
"That the man of God may be perfect [complete], THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works" (II Tim.3:16,17).
Very good statement from a man that preaches a perverted Gospel....just goes to show how dangerous false teachers can be. Just imagine
Cornelius R. Stam can make a true statement like this and then turn around a teach the Great Commission does not apply to the Church….
Better look in the mirror and examine your own error. The perverted other Gospel that Paul was talking about is the one that the legalist would mix Law with Grace.
Please stop your sillyness.
It is clear to all your motives.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
THE TRUTH
by Cornelius R. Stam
The Bible is unique among books as Christ was among men, in that it is the only book that claims repeatedly and consistently to be the truth.
It begins with the majestic words: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It does not argue the case; it simply states it. The sacramental introduction to the prophecies is: "Thus saith the Lord," and a hundred fulfilled prophecies prove that the Bible is indeed the Word of God -- the truth.
Without apology it refers to:
The "manifestation of the truth" (IICor.4:2).
The "knowledge of the truth" (IITim.3:7).
Those who "have erred concerning the truth" (II Tim.2:18).
Those who "resist the truth" (IITim.3:8).
Those who "hold [hold down, suppress] the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1: 18).
Those who "turn away their ears from the truth" (IITim.4:4).
Those who "believe and know the truth" (ITim.4:3).
Those who "acknowledge the truth" (Tit.1:1).
Our Lord said to His Father: "Thy Word is truth" (John 17:17).
Paul wrote to those who were saved when they "heard the word of truth, the gospel of [their] salvation" (Eph.1:13).
Where the truth is concerned God's Word is all we need, for:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction in righteousness;
"That the man of God may be perfect [complete], THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works" (II Tim.3:16,17).
Very good statement from a man that preaches a perverted Gospel....just goes to show how dangerous false teachers can be. Just imagine
Cornelius R. Stam can make a true statement like this and then turn around a teach the Great Commission does not apply to the Church….
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB, you and J. C. O'Hair do wrongly divide the scripture.
quote:
God sent Paul to the Gentiles with the ministry of reconciliation and the gospel of grace.
This can be a true statement...
But in the context how your perverted O’Hare group preach it, it becomes false...
Your opinion just don't mater. It is clear to all but the legalist, what the truth is.
“believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:31.
THE TRUTH
by Cornelius R. Stam
The Bible is unique among books as Christ was among men, in that it is the only book that claims repeatedly and consistently to be the truth.
It begins with the majestic words: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It does not argue the case; it simply states it. The sacramental introduction to the prophecies is: "Thus saith the Lord," and a hundred fulfilled prophecies prove that the Bible is indeed the Word of God -- the truth.
Without apology it refers to:
The "manifestation of the truth" (IICor.4:2).
The "knowledge of the truth" (IITim.3:7).
Those who "have erred concerning the truth" (II Tim.2:18).
Those who "resist the truth" (IITim.3:8).
Those who "hold [hold down, suppress] the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom.1: 18).
Those who "turn away their ears from the truth" (IITim.4:4).
Those who "believe and know the truth" (ITim.4:3).
Those who "acknowledge the truth" (Tit.1:1).
Our Lord said to His Father: "Thy Word is truth" (John 17:17).
Paul wrote to those who were saved when they "heard the word of truth, the gospel of [their] salvation" (Eph.1:13).
Where the truth is concerned God's Word is all we need, for:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction in righteousness;
"That the man of God may be perfect [complete], THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works" (II Tim.3:16,17).
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
WildB, you and J. C. O'Hair do wrongly divide the scripture.
quote:
God sent Paul to the Gentiles with the ministry of reconciliation and the gospel of grace.
This can be a true statement...
But in the context how your perverted O’Hare group preach it, it becomes false...
Paul truly was sent to the Gentiles, but the Gospel he preached was the same Gospel Jesus taught and the Apostles taught.
[/ 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
It is very plain from this scripture that from a child, being instructed in only the Old Testament scriptures Timothy had learned all he needed to know to be saved.
quote:
God’s message to Christians is: “If we confess our sins. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrigliteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.” I John 1:9 and 10. “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” I John 2:1.
Amen, Amen, Amen …my point exactly…..forgiveness is always ours, it just a matter of the child of God humbling themselves daily at the Throne of Grace….
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Heb 10:26-29 says "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire ... a man deserves to be punished ... who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him ..." In these verses we see that a saved man (sanctified by the blood) will face judgment if he continues to deliberately sin. If a believer fails to repent of his ongoing sin then his heart will harden against the Spirit’s conviction. Over time it gets more and more difficult to repent and may lead to eventual salvation loss
““
Hebrews 10:26-29 to 31:
FOR IF WE SIN WILFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS.” “OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YE, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HATH COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, AND HATH DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? FOR WE KNOW HIM THAT HATH SAID, VENGEANCE BELONGETH UNTO ME, I WILL RECOMPENSE, SAITH THE LORD. AND AGAIN, THE LORD SHALL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.”
If any man so despises the grace of God that he refuses to trust Jesus Christ and accept His once-for-all sacrifice for sins, the vengeance of God will be his portion. But note the salvation condition, “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:31.
THERE REMAINETH NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS.” Do not misinterpret Hebrews 10:26 and teach, as some Christians have believed and taught, that the Holy Spirit said, “if a Christian sins wilfully after he has been saved, “there remaineth no more FORGIVENESS of sins.” No such statement is made in the Bible. On the contrary, God’s message to Christians is: “If we confess our sins. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrigliteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.” I John 1:9 and 10. “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” I John 2:1.
The Epistle to the Hebrews was written to Hebrew Christians and to unsaved religious Hebrews. Some of them wanted to supplement the redemptive work of Christ with a religious program, adding something of Judaism to the finished work of Christ. The priests and religions Jewish leaders were still carrying on in the temple, at Jerusalem, teaching the religious Jews to continue their faith in the blood of animals. offered on their altar, according to the law of Moses. It was to these Jews that the writer wrote, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin.”
As we study the message of Stephen to the Jews, in Acts 7:46 to 56, and Paul’s message to the Jews, in Acts 18:5 and 6, we see that the Jews were very definitely committing the unpardonable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31 and 32. To this we shall presently refer. But first let us note, in Romans 11:8, Romans 11:11, Romans 11:30 and Romans 11:15, that when and because Israel committed the unpardonable sin. God sent Paul to the Gentiles with the ministry of reconciliation and the gospel of grace.
Pastor J. C. O'Hair
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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Heb 10:26-29 says "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire ... a man deserves to be punished ... who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him ..." In these verses we see that a saved man (sanctified by the blood) will face judgment if he continues to deliberately sin. If a believer fails to repent of his ongoing sin then his heart will harden against the Spirit’s conviction. Over time it gets more and more difficult to repent and may lead to eventual salvation loss
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
We are not saved by works, but we are saved unto works. We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works. It's not about our works, it's all about Jesus working in us. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
It is amazing that those who believe in predestination do not emphasize predestination unto good works. Predestination unto good works is clearly what the Scriptures teach. They want to be predestined to Heaven but live anyway they want. We are predestined to good works. The good works do not save us. They are the fruit of being saved.
Amen becauseHElives!
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becauseHElives
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![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) Colossians 1:21–23
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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Hello Dale,
My brother in the Lord. I know its been a while.
You said:
It is amazing that those who believe in predestination do not emphasize predestination unto good works. Predestination unto good works is clearly what the Scriptures teach. They want to be predestined to Heaven but live anyway they want. We are predestined to good works. The good works do not save us. They are the fruit of being saved.
END
Romans 8:29
For whom He forknew, He also PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
With love in Jesus, Daniel
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WildB
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Has Mize proven his point about Soul Salvation or that Eternal life is gained through good works? No. Has Mize proven that he can rightly divide the Word of Truth and has the Spiritual gift of Teacher or Prophecy? No. Therefore it is pointless to listen to the rest of his theory which is all based on the foregoing erroneous interpretation, and would be a waste of your time and mine. Therefore I'm not going to continue any farther with this critique, and besides it's past my bedtime.
Lori Eldridge
February 4, 2000
http://www.loriswebs.com/endtime_prophets/mize.html
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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must have...can you give me a link?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Betty Louise
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It is amazing that those who believe in predestination do not emphasize predestination unto good works
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You must have missed the Bible Study where my Pastor taught predestination and said if you are truly saved, you would bear fruit.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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becauseHElives
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We are not saved by works, but we are saved unto works. We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works. It's not about our works, it's all about Jesus working in us. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
It is amazing that those who believe in predestination do not emphasize predestination unto good works. Predestination unto good works is clearly what the Scriptures teach. They want to be predestined to Heaven but live anyway they want. We are predestined to good works. The good works do not save us. They are the fruit of being saved.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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posted
Exposing Mize's Flawed Soul Salvation Theory
by Lori Eldridge
Lyn Mize believes that we need our souls saved as well as our spirits and some of us will therefore miss the rapture unless we WORK toward attaining eternal salvation. The following article will attempt to show how that theory has no Scriptural basis in fact.
(all scriptures are NIV except those quoted by Mize which are KJV
Mize's words are in bold, mine in plain type.)
I will begin my critique of Mize's beliefs by commenting on a portion of Mize's About the Author.
Lyn Mize has been studying the Bible for the last 22 years. His particular emphasis has been on the doctrines of redemption and Bible prophecy, and his spiritual gifts are teaching and prophecy. His consuming desire has been to understand and obey the doctrines of the Bible, and to teach them to anyone who desires to understand and obey these doctrines.
Mize claims to have the Spiritual gifts of Teaching and Prophecy. One with the gift of Prophecy has a keen sense for discerning dishonesty and a strong passion to expose sin in the Body. They accurately speak from God's Word, the Bible and have a strong desire to keep false doctrines out of the Church by defending the truth of Scripture. A person with the gift of Teaching also wants to defend the Word but they are more interested in indepth research of the Bible, insisting on accuracy of the facts, and are natural detectives of the Word because they have an incredible memory for details. They keep error out of the church by examining every statement made by false teachers. Both of these gifts understand God's Word and are focused on defending the Word against false teachings. Does Mize accurately understand and defend the Word? This will hopefully be more clear as we move along.
The following is a critique of a portion of Mize's article called First John-Verse By Verse where he claims our souls are saved separately from our spirits and the salvation of our souls is directly related to how hard we work towards eternal life.. I have only included those portions that I intend to comment on.
An exegetical discourse on the First Epistle of John. In this epistle John addresses Salvation of the soul as found in the Life of Christ. Soul salvation is something that Christians must lay hold onto, and it is not the same as spirit salvation or the new birth.
The First Epistle of John is addressed to Christians, and it warns against the dangers of false teaching. It also exhorts believers to lives of obedience to God and love for Christian brothers and sisters. The primary theme is fellowship with God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ (1:3).
The first four verses of this epistle constitute the prologue, and affirm the reality of the incarnation of Christ. The goals of the epistle are fellowship and joy, and have nothing to do with testing to see if a person is really a born again Christian. It appears certain that the author of this epistle was John the Apostle-the disciple whom Jesus loved.
I. Prologue (1:1-4)
(1 John 1:1 KJV) That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
John declares his subject to be that which was from the beginning, and he then describes the Lord Jesus Christ. Consequently, the beginning referred to in this verse would be the beginning of the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the First Coming of Jesus Christ.
Is this an acccurate statementthat John was speaking about the beginning of the proclamation of the Gospel or Christ's first coming? What did John say about Jesus's beginning in the very first verses of the Gospel of John?
"In the BEGINNING was the WORD, and the Word was with God and the WORD was GOD. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him noting was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood" (John 1:1-5).
John just said that Jesus is the creator of the Universe and he was from the beginning. If he is the creator then his beginning started long before he ever came to this earth at his first coming or before the proclamation of the Gospel either. Therefore Mize is not rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
This verse also describes Jesus as the Word of Life. We know that the Bible is the Written Word, but Jesus Christ is the Living Word, and this reference is to the Living Word. As the Living Word of Life, Jesus Christ is the source of eternal life. It must be emphasized here that eternal life pertains to soul salvation and not spirit salvation. Eternal life pertains to appropriating the Life of Jesus Christ and the rewards for doing this. Eternal life is something the Christian attains to by allowing Christ to live His live in the Christian. The Christian must lay hold on eternal life. The following verses are just a few that confirm this:
(1 Tim 6:12 KJV) Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
(1 Tim 6:17-19 KJV) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
(1 John 1:2 KJV) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
This verse confirms that eternal life is in the life of Christ, and it has been manifested or shown to Christians. We can lay hold on to eternal life by allowing Christ to live His life through us. Eternal life is a result of good works as stated in the verses in 1 Timothy above.
Is it true that one can attain eternal life through works? Lets take another look at the verses that Mize quoted above and this time let's use the NIV:
"Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called WHEN you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses"(1 Tim 6:12 NIV).
Now, this puts a whole different spin on the interpretation doesn't it? The NIV says that we are called to eternal life WHEN we confess Christ, and the KJV doesn't say when it occurs at all. Let's look at the other verses Mize quoted and see if we can confirm when we receive eternal salvation. I'm not going to use the 1 Timothy 6:17-19 verse because it does NOT indicate WHEN we receive eternal life. I'm going to quote both 1 John 1:1-3 so we can see the context.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our yes, which we have looked at and our hands have touchedthis we proclaim concerning the Word of life" (1 John 1:1).
I would like to point out that Mize said above that the Proclamation of the Gospel or the 2nd coming of Christ was what was being referred to as from the beginning. And yet, as we saw above, John in his Gospel said it was Christ that was from the beginning. Therefore, the word that in the verse above is referring to Christ as creator of the Universe. Christ as the creator, i.e., God, is what John was proclaiming in this verse, not the Gospel as Mize claims.
"The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ" (1 John 1:2).
Please notice that John continued with his thought, now changing the word that which we saw above has to be referring to Christ, he changed the "that" into the Word of life. And then he states this Word of Life, i.e., Christ as Creator God is what he saw, testified to, who was with the Father, whom they saw and heard, and who appeared to them, and he is now proclaiming this Word of life/Christ as God to them. Look at what a big difference one word makes. It changes the whole perspective on this verse. Does this look like Mize has the gift of Teaching?
The following verse provides the Biblical definition of eternal life:
(Rom 2:6-11 KJV) Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.
Please note that eternal life pertains to the good works that we perform. The Biblical definition of eternal life is the glory, honor and immortality that a Christian attains to by patient continuance in well doing.
Ok, now Mize is trying to tell us that this verse proves that eternal life is contingent on good works. Is this true? Lets move back a few verses and get the complete context of what was really being discussed in the passage above. According to verse 1-5 Paul was scolding the Romans for judging others and then doing the same things, i.e., they were hypocrites and it is hypocrites that were going to be judged here. Then Paul continues in verse 6-11 condemning those who do evil, i.e., the hypocrites. Nowhere in this passage does it condemn those who are not hypocrites, nor does it indicate when eternal life is given which is the whole point of this study. Has Mize chosen Scriptures that support his theory. It doesn't appear so. He has instead taken scripture out of context and therefore has failed to prove his own theory.
Let's take a look at what John says about eternal life in his gospel:
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life"(John 5:24).
Does the above scripture say anything about works entering into the equation for eternal life after one believes. No. And neither does the next one which was also written by John:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. . . . Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son" (John 3:16-18).
Ok, here are two verses written by John that state eternal life is contingent on believing with no mention of works involved. Does the Bible contradict itself, which would mean God is the author of confusion, or is Mize taking scripture out of context? I would have to believe it was the later.
(1 John 1:3 KJV) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
John continues the affirmation that eternal life is in the life of Jesus Christ, and it pertains to our fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. Eternal life pertains to soul salvation and not spirit salvation. Our spirits were saved by the death of Jesus Christ, but our souls are saved by the life of Jesus Christ.
Has Mize proven his point about Soul Salvation or that Eternal life is gained through good works? No. Has Mize proven that he can rightly divide the Word of Truth and has the Spiritual gift of Teacher or Prophecy? No. Therefore it is pointless to listen to the rest of his theory which is all based on the foregoing erroneous interpretation, and would be a waste of your time and mine. Therefore I'm not going to continue any farther with this critique, and besides it's past my bedtime.
Lori Eldridge
February 4, 2000
http://www.loriswebs.com/endtime_prophets/mize.html
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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Eternal Life -- Tradition vs Scripture
The phrase “eternal life” is probably the most misunderstood phrase in all of Scripture. It comes from the Greek words aionios zoe, and these Greek words are translated in the Scriptures as eternal life, life eternal, or everlasting life. The phrase is used 45 times in the New Testament, and it has the same meaning every time that it is used. The Biblical meaning of this phrase is quite different from the traditional interpretation. The traditional interpretation of “eternal life” assigns it to every believer, and provides the meaning of living forever. Traditionally, eternal life is linked with the spirit of man, but Scriptures link it to the soul of man. Unfortunately, the great majority of Christians do not know the difference between the soul and the spirit.
The Scriptures provide a clear and unmistakable definition of eternal life in the following passage in Romans, addressed to Christians and warning them about the Judgment Seat of Christ:
(Rom 2:1-10 KJV) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. {2} But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. {3} And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? {4} Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? {5} But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; {6} Who will render to every man according to his deeds: {7} To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: {8} But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, {9} Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; {10} But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Verses 6 & 7 provide the simple definition of eternal life. Eternal life is the reward of “glory and honour and immortality” that comes to the Christian who patiently endures in performing good works (i.e., well doing). The Christian who “worketh good” will have glory and honour at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the person he is at the rapture (i.e., resurrection) will pass through the testing fire and continue on into the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. This is the meaning of “immortality”. The person who is immortalized is the one who receives glory and honor, and his deeds (i.e., his life) are remembered forever. Christians who arrive at the Judgment Seat of Christ as liars, gossips, adulterers or drunkards will have their lives perish in the testing fire of God. They will receive “tribulation and anguish” for their evil works, and they will not inherit eternal life. The opposite of perishing at the Judgment Seat of Christ is to inherit eternal life. Eternal life pertains to the soul of the Christian and not the spirit.
The Christian must be faithful to “lay hold on eternal life” in the present life, or he will not have it at the Judgment Seat of Christ:
(1 Tim 6:12 KJV) Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
(1 Tim 6:18-19 KJV) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; {19} Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
The Christian who follows Jesus and puts him first in his life will inherit eternal life:
(Mat 19:27-29 KJV) Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? {28} And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. {29} And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundred fold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Every Christian is an heir to eternal life, but he can lose his inheritance by not following Christ. Many Christians will fail to inherit eternal life because they put wealth and riches ahead of following Jesus Christ:
(Mark 10:17-22 KJV) And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? {18} And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. {19} Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. {20} And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. {21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. {22} And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Even the best known Scripture in the Bible confirms the conditional nature of eternal life:
(John 3:14-16 KJV) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: {15} That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. {16} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This brief passage states twice that believers “should not perish”, but they might perish. This passage confirms and restates that the opposite of perishing is the realization of eternal life. We have already seen that eternal life is something the Christian must lay hold on in this life. We have also seen that eternal life pertains to REWARD at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and this REWARD is the receipt of glory, honor and immortality. The immortality pertains to the soul of the Christian. The faithful Christian’s soul (i.e., life) will pass through the judgment fire and will never be forgotten. This is what it means to be immortalized.
Summary: Eternal life pertains to the soul and not the spirit. Eternal life must be sought after by the Christian in doing good works. The Christian can have eternal life abiding in him in the present age, but it can be lost by falling away from the faith. The Christian still goes to heaven and he is still conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, but he loses his REWARD in the millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ. Eternal life is related to the inheritance, and not the destination of the Christian. The opposite of perishing at the Judgment Seat of Christ is to realize eternal life and receive glory, honor and immortality. Christians must put aside tradition and believe the Word of God.
Lyn Mize
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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