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Topic: Covered By Grace...Free To Sin?
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Hi realyn, welcome to the Christian BBS.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God
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realyn
First Post
Member # 9312
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Ephesians Chapter 2
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
As for my experience and understanding, this is one example of how a person is under His grace and love:
For whatever accusations that comes after the person under His grace and love and righteousness will be as nothing because God is with the person. God's love defeats the accuser and the person knows well he/she has done no wrong as God is with him/her and of course the person knows the accuser that dwells in the person that accused but have no hatred towards them. This is the amazing love of God that His people has. His love just overflows His people as though face to face with Him and living in God's Kingdom. And the person will be all about God, doing what God pleases and speaking His love and praising Him with all the love He pour into the person. It comes natural ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Carol Swenson
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Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
Jude: 24-25
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by clark:
The same God that gives us grace for the sins we have comitted leads us to a life better than one without Him.
What?
Grace don't lead it assists. His word and Spirit does that.
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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That is all.....
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clark
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The same God that gives us grace for the sins we have comitted leads us to a life better than one without Him.
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God's word is truth
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Carol Swenson
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The True Nature of Amazing Grace!
Grace – it’s probably the greatest, and hardest topic for the natural mind to truly understand. Everyone can grasp and understand the law. It tells you to ‘do this’ and ‘don’t do that’! Simple. Memorise the commandments and you are away. In fact, you don’t even have to be a Christian to grasp it as many ‘good, law abiding, unsaved religious people’ would testify to. We can understand it easily. We just can’t keep it! But God’s grace – now that’s another matter. It takes far more than the natural mind to understanding this incredible aspect of God’s character. It takes revelation from the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor 2:12 ‘We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us’
That which has ‘been freely given to us’ is the abundance of God’s grace in it’s various forms. It takes the Spirit to comprehend such things. The law was given to Moses through angels. (Gal 3:19, Heb 2:2) Angels can understand ‘living by the law’ for they live in a hierarchical environment where they are obedient to the commands of those above them. And yet, concerning grace, we read
1 Pet 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow... Even angels long to look into these things.
Angels, like men, easily grasp living by commandments. Yet they long to look into the things of grace! How much more should we, as the recipients of this grace, be aware of all that it means for us! And further more, how much more should we be careful that we are relying upon, and thankful for, all that God has done for us by grace! Let me say it again… grace is the greatest of topics, yet the hardest to comprehend for it goes against what the proud natural mind of man tells us. Yet even in the ages to come, God is still trying to teach and show people His grace as we read
Eph 2:6-7 ‘And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.’
So with this in mind, please read the following, taken from William R. Newell’s book ‘Romans verse by verse’ pages 245-247. It is found under the title – ‘A few words about grace.’ A few words they may be, but what great words they are! Please read each point slowly and think about what it actually means for your Christian life. Mediate on them! Some of these points can seem quite radical, yet they cut straight to the heart of what grace truly means and in doing so shows up much of the legalistic and religious teaching that passes as the gospel today.
The Nature of Grace
Grace is God acting freely, according to His own nature as Love; with no promises or obligations to fulfil; and acting of course, righteously in view of the cross
Grace therefore, is uncaused in the recipient: its cause lies wholly in the giver, in God.
Grace also is sovereign. Not having debts to pay, or fulfilled conditions on man’s part to wait for, it can act toward whom, and how, it pleases. It can, and does, often, place the worst deservers in the highest favours.
Grace cannot act where there is either desert or ability: Grace does not help – it is absolute, it does all.
There being no cause in the creature why grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off trying to give cause to God for His grace.
The discovery by the creature that he is truly the object of Divine grace, works the utmost humility: for the receiver of grace is brought to know his own absolute unworthiness, and his complete inability to attain worthiness: yet he finds himself blessed – on another principle outside of himself!
Therefore, flesh has no place in the plan of Grace. This is the great reason why grace is hated by the proud natural mind of man. But for this very reason, the true believer rejoices! For he knows that “in him, that is in his flesh, dwells no good thing”; and yet he finds God glad to bless him, just as he is!
The Place of Man under Grace
He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing!
He is not “on probation.”
As to his life past, it does not exist before God: he died at the Cross, and Christ is his life.
Grace, once bestowed, is not withdrawn: for God knew all human exigencies beforehand: His action was independent of them, not dependant upon them
The failure of devotion does not cause the withdrawal of bestowed grace (as it would under law). For example the main in 1 Cor 5:1-5 and those in 11:30-32 who did not “judge” themselves, and so were “judged by the Lord, that they would not be condemned with the world”!
The Proper Attitude of Man under Grace
To believe, and consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.
To refuse to make “resolutions” and “vows”; for that is to trust in the flesh.
To expect to be blessed, though realising more and more lack of worth.
To testify of God’s goodness, at all times.
To be certain of God’s future favour: yet to be ever more tender in conscience toward Him.
To rely on God’s chastening hand as a mark of His kindness.
A man under grace, if like Paul, has no burdens regarding himself; but many about others.
Things Which Gracious Souls Discover
To “hope to be better” is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
To be disappointed with yourself is to have believed in yourself.
To be discouraged is unbelief – as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.
To be proud is to be blind! For we have no standing before God in ourselves.
The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion.
Real devotion to God arises, not from man’s will to show it but from the discovery that blessing has been received from God while we were yet unworthy and undevoted.
To preach devotion first and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing dependant on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so , in proper measure.
I Gordon
http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/studies/online/grace.htm
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
i believe in HIS GRACE!
and hope in it along with HIS mercy...But what that WOLF Charles Stanley teaches is lies from the 'father of lies' satan.....
That in NOT grace that Charles Stanley teaches SIster Carol; its mockery, lies, and against at leat 100 or more scriptures!
He [charles stanely] is a WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, turning the Grace of YHWH into a license to SIN, because when you accepted Christ Jesus [according to c. stanley} every sin you ever commit is already forgiven......LIES LIES LIES
Un repented SIN [when convicted by the Holy Spirit] caauses one to come under the penalty of the LAW!!!!!
When you walk in the Spirit your not UNDER THE LAW!, walk in the flesh and stay there all the scriptures come into play my dear SISTer,,
Wages of sin is death, thou shalt not!
God is not MOCKED,, sowing and reaping....\\
i dont know how to articulate the language to help you to see/...
im not walking in pride, i dont think im better..
You state:
quote:
According to you, God makes mistakes all the time by granting the awesome, life-changing miracle of salvation and rebirth to undeserving bad guys, and then He has to what...? Take it back?
Who choose "JUDAS"!
Judas chose his path, God does not "take it back" as you see to have me say!
You can throw it away!
You cannot throw it away. You can't even touch it. Your real life is in Christ; you are seated in the heavenly realms.
We do NOT go back and forth between Law and Grace! The fifth dispensation is called the Dispensation of Law and started with the Exodus and was set aside with Jesus Christ, a period of some 1,491 years. The sixth dispensation is the Dispensation of Grace, represented by the New Covenant through Jesus Christ and His death on the Cross.
What is the purpose of the law today?
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)
That is the whole purpose of the law. It shows us that we always fall short of God's standards for us. It shows us that we are all sinners; that we are guilty in God's eyes and deserve condemnation and punishment. It makes us realize we can never be "good enough" and that we need a Savior to save us from the condemnation we deserve. It shows us how much we need Jesus. It makes us realize that the sins He bore to Calvary were OUR sins, and that He alone paid the price that WE should have to pay for our transgressions.
barry, you are saying that God makes mistakes. That is not true. God knew every sin you would ever commit throughout your ENTIRE life - past, present, and future - when He saved you. So yes, your future sins are forgiven. That DOES NOT mean it's okay to sin. It just means that God knows you will. You still need to repent and seek forgiveness to restore fellowship with God.
You have no right to put limits on God's Grace. Jesus told several parables about people who did that.
As for Judas, he was chosen to fulfill prophecy, not because he was a believer.
Consider John 6
64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the Twelve, was going to betray him.
Jesus Christ was born to die for our sins, not His own. He was an absolutely innocent man Who was to be betrayed, falsely accused, unlawfully arrested, unjustly convicted , and brutally executed. A naturally corrupt man was required for the role of betrayer, and Judas Iscariot was the chosen one.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
barrykind
This is what Charles Stanley said:
quote:
But we do not have license to live in rebellion. Abundant grace spurs us to obedience. The disobedient believer reaps what he sows and will eventually become a miserable creature.
The article I posted came from Charles Stanley's website.
In his mission statement there he writes:
quote:
The Christian Walk
We believe that we have a holy calling to walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, and so to live in the power of the indwelling Spirit in order that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The flesh is never eradicated in this life. Individuals must choose to keep the flesh in subjection to Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit, or it will surely manifest its presence in life and dishonor our Lord. (Romans 6:11-13; 8:2, 4, 12-13; Galatians 5:16-23; Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 2:1-10; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 1 John 1:4-7; 3:5-9)
I believe you are bearing false witness against Dr. Stanley. Your quotes from him are out of context and provide no source. Your quote from my article is intentionally misrepresented. None of us lives in sinless perfection. When we sin, we still have a relationship with God, but our fellowship is broken until we repent.
Charles Stanley does not teach easy believism. Whoever told you that was mistaken.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
i believe in HIS GRACE!
and hope in it along with HIS mercy...But what that WOLF Charles Stanley teaches is lies from the 'father of lies' satan.....
That in NOT grace that Charles Stanley teaches SIster Carol; its mockery, lies, and against at leat 100 or more scriptures!
He [charles stanely] is a WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, turning the Grace of YHWH into a license to SIN, because when you accepted Christ Jesus [according to c. stanley} every sin you ever commit is already forgiven......LIES LIES LIES
Un repented SIN [when convicted by the Holy Spirit] caauses one to come under the penalty of the LAW!!!!!
When you walk in the Spirit your not UNDER THE LAW!, walk in the flesh and stay there all the scriptures come into play my dear SISTer,,
Wages of sin is death, thou shalt not!
God is not MOCKED,, sowing and reaping....\\
i dont know how to articulate the language to help you to see/...
im not walking in pride, i dont think im better..
You state:
quote:
According to you, God makes mistakes all the time by granting the awesome, life-changing miracle of salvation and rebirth to undeserving bad guys, and then He has to what...? Take it back?
Who choose "JUDAS"!
Judas chose his path, God does not "take it back" as you see to have me say!
You can throw it away!
I never thought 2 meet a stone thrower?
So how do u prepare yourself?
humm?
![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
i believe in HIS GRACE!
and hope in it along with HIS mercy...But what that WOLF Charles Stanley teaches is lies from the 'father of lies' satan.....
That in NOT grace that Charles Stanley teaches SIster Carol; its mockery, lies, and against at leat 100 or more scriptures!
He [charles stanely] is a WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, turning the Grace of YHWH into a license to SIN, because when you accepted Christ Jesus [according to c. stanley} every sin you ever commit is already forgiven......LIES LIES LIES
Un repented SIN [when convicted by the Holy Spirit] caauses one to come under the penalty of the LAW!!!!!
When you walk in the Spirit your not UNDER THE LAW!, walk in the flesh and stay there all the scriptures come into play my dear SISTer,,
Wages of sin is death, thou shalt not!
God is not MOCKED,, sowing and reaping....\\
i dont know how to articulate the language to help you to see/...
im not walking in pride, i dont think im better..
You state:
quote:
According to you, God makes mistakes all the time by granting the awesome, life-changing miracle of salvation and rebirth to undeserving bad guys, and then He has to what...? Take it back?
Who choose "JUDAS"!
Judas chose his path, God does not "take it back" as you see to have me say!
You can throw it away!
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
I love Dr. Stanley. You can dump buckets of mud all over my post, but you can't touch him and all the good he has done.
A first year disciple knows our Lord Jesus Christ is omniscient. When He chose to save you, barry, he knew every sin you committed, and every sin you ever would commit. All the mean things you would say about His servants. And still He chose to save you, because of HIS righteousness. His GRACE.
But you're going to sit there all puffed-up with self righteous pride and say that God made a mistake when he saved someone who chews bubble gum on Saturday.
According to you, God makes mistakes all the time by granting the awesome, life-changing miracle of salvation and rebirth to undeserving bad guys, and then He has to what...? Take it back?
Guess again. We are all undeserving, even you. And you know what He does with His wayward children? He CHANGES them. Wonder of wonders. S A N C T I F I C A T I O N!!!
Complain and argue about Grace from now until the Rapture, and you won't change one single tiny itty-bitty moment of God's Grace.
There is one Savior, and you aren't Him. You can't save yourself with all the laws and rules and Sabbaths. You are saved by HIS righteousness, and HIS grace, and you don't deserve it. None of us do.
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barrykind
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My o my does Charles Stanley ever more dance around the scripture...
I see him clearly as a "WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING"
See the Thread:
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000511
Stanley Quote:
"When He died on the Cross, He took care of all of our sin. You say, 'You mean to tell me that if a person takes their own life, after all these things that you just talked about, all these sins, that that person is forgiven?' Yes! A believer who commits suicide is 'already forgiven'. Now I didn't say it was going to be good for him, but he is forgiven in advance. Pardoned of that sin. No matter what you do as a Child of God, you are forgiven. Murder, stealing, adultery, worshiping idols....all forgiven in advance!"
Another Stanley quote:
Stanley Quote:
"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy. Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation. A Christian who at no point in his entire life bore any eternal fruit would remain secure in Christ!"
Makes you wonder how many people have actually 'pulled the trigger' on themselves, believing what these wolves have to say. What a travesty. A perfect example of the 'way of truth being blasphemed' 2Pet2:2, by covertness and deceptive words. This 'already forgiven' theme doesn't follow Bible Truth, but most of the wolves preach it, mainly because it keeps the people happy and coming back for more. Financially it's MUCH more beneficial to tell someone they can sin their way to heaven as long as it keeps them a 'contributing' member of the church. The fact that Jesus died for 'all sin' doesn't translate into 'License' to sin for His followers. Continuing in sin is the chief factor in hardened hearts, seared conscience, defiled testimony and falling short of the Grace of God. The Bible warns repeatedly about it in some of the following passages...
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
"For if we sin willfully after we have received a knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries." Heb 10:26-27
"Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God, on those who fell, severity, but toward you, goodness, IF you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off." Rom 11:22
"To be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Rom 8:6
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord Jesus, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning!" 2Pet2:20
"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." 1John3:15
CStanley quoted from this article:
quote:
Another attack on the doctrine of grace comes from within the body of Christ. Some caution that such good news can lead to a lifestyle of sin. They think grace leads people to say, “I am saved no matter what, so why does it matter how I live?”
The apostle Paul anticipates this when he asks, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?” (Rom. 6:1).
The answer is no. Paul responds to the question in the very next verse: “May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” (Rom. 6:2). The implication is that it would be unthinkable for a Christian to be comfortable continuing in his transgressions. Sin does not stay dormant. It grows. It enslaves. For those in Christ, disobedience cannot destroy relationship with God, but it will surely damage their testimony and fellowship with Him.
Disobedience Stanley says cannot destroy relationship with God.....
Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft!
Obedience is "BETTER" than sacrifice...
The WAGES of SIN is DEATH!..
Whatsoever a man sows that shall he also REAP!
My goodness folks a simple first year student "disciple" of the Lord can see through that that Charles Stanley "The Wolf" teaches..
A lot of what is stated about "GRACE" in the article is true.....The underlying principal that Charles Stanley "THE WOLF INSHEEPS CLOTHING" teaches is ,
Once you have been "born again" nomatter how you live, no matter how much unrepented sin there is .....you are "ALREADY" FORGIVEN...Hogwash!!!!!
This is a lie of satan...the enemy..
DONT let this wolf lead you astray with his "FALSE GOSPEL"
![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Carol Swenson
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The gospel of God’s grace—His full provision for man’s sin—is frequently perverted and attacked by nonbelievers. Most false religions deny the free gift of salvation and embrace good works instead.
Another attack on the doctrine of grace comes from within the body of Christ. Some caution that such good news can lead to a lifestyle of sin. They think grace leads people to say, “I am saved no matter what, so why does it matter how I live?”
The apostle Paul anticipates this when he asks, “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?” (Rom. 6:1).
The answer is no. Paul responds to the question in the very next verse: “May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” (Rom. 6:2). The implication is that it would be unthinkable for a Christian to be comfortable continuing in his transgressions. Sin does not stay dormant. It grows. It enslaves. For those in Christ, disobedience cannot destroy relationship with God, but it will surely damage their testimony and fellowship with Him.
In Romans 6:1, the prefix of the Greek word translated “increase” means super. So the verse really says, “As sin comes, grace comes in a greater way.” In other words, sin may overflow a little, but grace is like a flood—it is always more than enough, no matter how significant the transgression. Think of this way: if sin reaches the top of Mt. Sinai, but grace reaches to the heavens.
But we do not have license to live in rebellion. Abundant grace spurs us to obedience. The disobedient believer reaps what he sows and will eventually become a miserable creature.
Remember when Jesus answered Peter’s question about how often one should forgive his brother? Peter thought seven times sounded extravagant. But the Lord answered, “Seventy times seven,” which in essence meant we are to forgive countless times. By emphasizing forgiveness, Jesus was telling us not to keep score or worry about others taking advantage of a situation.
If that’s how Jesus advised Peter, how much more does He, the Son of God, exercise forgiveness toward us? Surely, we have sinned more than 490 times. And it is the sheer grace of God that He is not counting!
God’s extravagant grace comes into our lives when we receive Jesus Christ as our personal Savior, and in no way should this truth encourage us to be disobedient. The Lord delivers us from the penalty of sin and its power in our lives. Romans 6 emphasizes that we don’t have to sin. We possess the wonderful liberty to do what pleases our Father!
We should never let opposition to the gospel dilute the overwhelming truth of amazing grace. Critics cannot dampen the transforming, liberating power of God’s free, unconditional, and unmerited love and mercy.
Where there is no grace, there is no gospel. On our own, we can do nothing to make ourselves more presentable to God. It is purely by grace—given by Christ through His Spirit—that the believer is accepted into God’s family for eternity.
The gospel of grace, though misunderstood, has no substitute. It is the cornerstone for all of life, illuminating the goodness of the Lord and attracting us to Him. Delight yourself today in God’s amazing gift.
Charles Stanley
http://www.intouch.org/resources/article-archive/content/topic/covered_by_grace_free_to_sin_article
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