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Author
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Topic: Saul: the carnal believer.
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Bloodbought
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posted
Paul said,
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
The remedy for carnality.
Proverbs 16:6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged:
And by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil:
Pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way,
And the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 14:27 The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life,
To depart from the snares of death.
Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the LORD tendeth to life:
And he that hath it shall abide satisfied;
He shall not be visited with evil.
Psalm 34:11 Come, ye children, hearken unto me:
I will teach you the fear of the LORD.
12 What man is he that desireth life,
And loveth many days, that he may see good?
13 Keep thy tongue from evil,
And thy lips from speaking guile.
14 Depart from evil, and do good;
Seek peace, and pursue it.
15 The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous,
And his ears are open unto their cry.
16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17 The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth,
And delivereth them out of all their troubles.
18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart;
And saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous:
But the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
20 He keepeth all his bones:
Not one of them is broken.
21 Evil shall slay the wicked:
And they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
22 The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants:
And none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
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Carol Swenson
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Thanks for helping me to understand. It sounds like we're saying the same thing.
God created Lucifer to be perfect; he was the "seal of perfection". But Lucifer became proud and rebellious, and now he is known as Satan, the adversary. God did not create the evil. He created perfection, but Lucifer chose to be evil.
In the same way, Saul was made king and given the Holy Spirit. But, like Lucifer, Saul became proud and rebellious. It was his choice, his sin, and the evil consequences of fear, self-pity, envy, hatred and all are his own fault.
He could have repented and been restored to peace with God. But he didn't. As you stated, he was carnal, walking in the flesh and not the Spirit.
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Bloodbought
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
It really is a good post, but I question one thing about it. In fact, it's alarming...
quote:
When an evil spirit troubled him, the evil spirit was always from the Lord who creates evil, Isa 45:7. Saul was simply carrying out Gods sovereign purpose so it could be recorded for our learning.
Does God create evil?
Look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.
First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.
Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7).
This verse is dealing with God's power, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." This verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity and distress, such as the flood or the plagues of Egypt, famine or disease.
How does God create evil, and what is an evil spirit from the Lord?
In short, it is a spirit that is unwilling to submit to God’s authority.
When God speaks through His word, and there is a rejection of His word, He has created an evil spirit in those who have rebelled. This spirit is from God in the sense that the reason for it is because of what God says. If there is no repentance, it can lead to all sorts of fear and dread and terror in the life of a believer because of the conviction that they know what God requires, but they fail to perform. Saul started quite well, but soon began to disobey and went from bad to worse.
The Lord was Israel’s King, who directed and led them in the right way, but they were unhappy and wanted a human king. God said all right then, you can have what you want, and I will work with you in that choice, because I want to teach you some lessons. Saul was the man, God was with him, His spirit was upon him, and he received power after that the Holy Spirit came upon him, and he perform mighty acts, 1 Sam 11:6-7.
God told Samuel to anoint Saul king and give him a command to utterly destroy the enemy. Saul had all the power that he requires at his disposal to carry out this command, but he fails to utterly destroy the enemy, because he thought that some of the things were too good to destroy. Saul was not able to carry out God’s command, not because of lack of power, but because of lack of will. He did not have the will to do God’s will. Was this the king the people wanted instead of God? Sadly yes.
God took it a step further. He lifted His Holy Spirit from Saul to let the people see how their king would do without His influence. When the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, he became very envies of David who the Lord was blessing mightily. This was an evil spirit from the Lord, in the sense that the reason for the envy was because of what the Lord was doing in the life of David. From Saul’s perspective, God created an evil spirit in Saul when the people praised what David had done much more than what he had done.
At no time does it say that Satan or his demons had any authority over Saul. This was not a battle against the devil. It was a battle with the flesh.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Saul was being ruled by the flesh and not by the Spirit.
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Carol Swenson
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Did God Send an Evil Spirit upon Saul?
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
The nature of God is such that He never would do anything that is out of harmony with His divine essence. Being infinite in all of His attributes (including goodness and compassion), He never would mistreat anyone, manifest partiality or injustice, or do something that may be legitimately indicted as wrong (Genesis 18:25). “He is the Rock, His work is perfect; for all His ways are justice, a God of truth and without injustice; righteous and upright is He” (Deuteronomy 32:4). That being the case, how does one explain the following: “But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the Lord troubled him” (1 Samuel 16:14); “And it happened on the next day that the distressing spirit from God came upon Saul” (1 Samuel 18:10; cf. 19:9; Judges 9:23)? Did God supernaturally afflict Saul with a demonic spirit that, in turn, overruled Saul’s ability to be responsible for his own actions?
At least three clarifications are worthy of consideration. First, the Bible frequently refers to acts of deserved punishment that God has inflicted upon people throughout history. For example, He brought a global deluge against the Earth’s population (Genesis 6-9) due to rampant human wickedness and depravity (6:5). God did not act inappropriately in doing so, not only because the people deserved nothing less, but also because He repeatedly warned the people of impending disaster, and was longsuffering in giving them ample opportunity to repent (1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; 3:9). The Bible provides instance after instance where evil people received their “just desserts.” God is not to be blamed nor deemed unjust for levying deserved punishment for sin, even as honest, impartial judges in America today are not culpable when they mete out just penalties for criminal behavior. Retribution upon flagrant, ongoing, impenitent lawlessness is not only right and appropriate; it is absolutely indispensable and necessary (see Miller, 2002).
In this case, Saul was afflicted with “an evil spirit” as a punishment for his insistent defiance of God’s will. He had committed flagrant violation of God’s commands on two previous occasions (1 Samuel 13:13-14; 15:11,19). His persistence in this lifelong pattern of disobedient behavior certainly deserved direct punitive response from God (e.g., 31:4). As Keil and Delitzsch maintained: “This demon is called ‘an evil spirit (coming) from Jehovah,’ because Jehovah had sent it as a punishment” (1976, 2:170). John W. Haley added: “And he has a punitive purpose in granting this permission. He uses evil to chastise evil” (1977, p. 142). Of course, the reader needs to be aware of the fact that the term for “evil” is a broad term that need not refer to spiritual wickedness. In fact, it often refers to physical harm or painful hardship (e.g., Genesis 19:19; 2 Samuel 17:14).
A second clarification regarding the sending of an evil spirit upon Saul is the question of, in what sense the spirit was “from the Lord.” To be honest and fair, the biblical interpreter must be willing to allow the peculiar linguistic features of ancient languages to be clarified and understood in accordance with the way those languages functioned. Specifically, ancient Hebrew (like most all other languages, then and now) was literally loaded with figurative language—i.e., figures of speech, Semitisms, colloquialisms, and idioms. It frequently was the case that “[a]ctive verbs were used by the Hebrews to express, not the doing of the thing, but the permission of the thing which the agent is said to do” (Bullinger, 1898, p. 823, emp. in orig.; cf. MacKnight, 1954, p. 29). Similarly, the figure of speech known as “metonymy of the subject” occurs “[w]here the action is put for the declaration concerning it: or where what is said to be done is put for what is declared, or permitted, or foretold as to be done: or where an action, said to be done, is put for the giving occasion for such action” (Bullinger, p. 570, italics in orig., emp. added). Hence, when the Bible says that the “distressing spirit” that troubled Saul was “from the Lord,” the writer was using an idiom to indicate that the Lord allowed or permitted the distressing spirit to come upon Saul. George Williams commented: “What God permits He is stated in the Bible to perform” (1960, p. 127).
In this second case, God did not directly send upon Saul an evil spirit; rather He allowed it to happen in view of Saul’s own propensity for stubborn disobedience. Gleason Archer commented on this point: “By these successive acts of rebellion against the will and law of God, King Saul left himself wide open to satanic influence—just as Judas Iscariot did after he had determined to betray the Lord Jesus” (1982, p. 179). One need not necessarily suppose that this demonic influence overwhelmed Saul’s free will. Satan can have power over us only insofar as we encourage or invite him to do so—“for what God fills not, the devil will” (Clarke, n.d., 2:259).
It is particularly interesting to note how the Bible links the frequent attempts at subversion by Satan with the redemptive scheme of God to provide atonement through the Christ. David, an ancestor of Christ, had to face Satan in the form of this “evil spirit” that sought to harm him through Saul, even as Jesus Himself had to face Satan’s attempts to subvert Him (Genesis 3:15; Matthew 4:1-11; cf. Matthew 2:16; Hebrews 2:14; Revelation 12:4). Williams went on to observe: “This explains why so many of those who were the ancestors of Christ were the objects of Satan’s peculiar cunning and hatred” (p. 153).
A third consideration regarding the “evil spirit” that came upon Saul is the fact that the term “spirit” (ruach) has a wide range of meanings: air (i.e., breath or wind); the vital principle of life or animating force; the rational mind where thinking and decision-making occurs; the Holy Spirit of God (Gesenius, 1847, pp. 760-761), and even disposition of mind or attitude (Harris, et al., 1980, 2:836). Likewise, the word translated “evil” (KJV), “distressing” (NKJV), or “injurious” (NIV margin) is a word (ra‘a) that can mean “bad,” “unhappy,” or “sad of heart or mind” (Gesenius, p. 772). It can refer to “a variety of negative attitudes common to wicked people, and be extended to include the consequences of that kind of lifestyle” (Harris, et al., 2:856).
In view of these linguistic data, the “evil spirit” that came upon Saul may well have been his own bad attitude—his ugly disposition of mind—that he manifested over and over again. Here is a persistent problem with which so many people grapple—the need to get their attitude straight regarding God’s will for their lives, and the need to have an unselfish approach to life and the people around them. We can be “our own worst enemy.” Such certainly was the case with Saul—and he bore total responsibility for his own actions. He could not blame God or an external “evil spirit.” Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown summarize this point quite adequately: “His own gloomy reflections—the consciousness that he had not acted up to the character of an Israelitish king—the loss of his throne, and the extinction of his royal house, made him jealous, irritable, vindictive, and subject to fits of morbid melancholy” (n.d., p. 185). Indeed, all people ultimately choose to allow Satan to rule them by their capitulation to their own sinful inclinations, desires, and decisions (cf. Genesis 4:7; Luke 22:3; Acts 5:3).
In view of these considerations, God and the Bible are exonerated from wrongdoing in the matter of Saul being the recipient of an evil spirit. When adequate evidence is gathered, the facts may be understood in such a way that God is shown to be righteous and free from unfair treatment of Saul. Like every other accountable human being who has ever lived, Saul made his own decisions, and reaped the consequences accordingly.
REFERENCES
Archer, Gleason L. (1982), An Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).
Bullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1968 reprint).
Clarke, Adam (no date), Clarke’s Commentary: Joshua-Esther (New York: Abingdon-Cokesbury).
Gesenius, William (1847), Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1979 reprint).
Haley, John W. (1977 reprint), Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker).
Harris, R. Laird, Gleason Archer, Jr. and Bruce Waltke, eds. (1980), Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Chicago, IL: Moody).
Jamieson, Robert, A.R. Fausset, and David Brown (no date), A Commentary on the Old and New Testaments (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).
Keil, C.F. and F. Delitzsch (1976 reprint), Commentary on the Old Testament: Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I & II Samuel (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans).
MacKnight, James (1954 reprint), Apostolic Epistles (Nashville, TN: Gospel Advocate).
Miller, Dave (2002), “Capital Punishment and the Bible,” [On-line], URL: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/1974
Williams, George (1960), The Student’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel), sixth edition.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=1278
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Carol Swenson
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It really is a good post, but I question one thing about it. In fact, it's alarming...
quote:
When an evil spirit troubled him, the evil spirit was always from the Lord who creates evil, Isa 45:7. Saul was simply carrying out Gods sovereign purpose so it could be recorded for our learning.
Does God create evil?
Look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject.
First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV.
Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena.
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7).
This verse is dealing with God's power, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." This verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity and distress, such as the flood or the plagues of Egypt, famine or disease.
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clark
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I think that is a great way to discribe Saul.
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God's word is truth
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Bloodbought
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We see Saul’s conversion to salvation in1 Samuel 10:5–10 where he turned into another man, God was with him, God give him another heart and he prophesied.
1 Samuel 10:5–10 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy: 6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man. 7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee 8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do. 9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day. 10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.
The Lord sent Samuel to anoint Saul king over Israel and send him on a journey to utterly destroy the Amalekites.
1 Samuel 15:1–3 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and *** .
Saul and the people spared some and would not utterly destroy them. He began to walk in the flesh and not in the spirit.
1 Samuel 15:7–9 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt. 8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
Samuel inquired of Saul why he refused to utterly destroy the Amalekites.
1 Samuel 15:17–19 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the LORD anointed thee king over Israel? 18 And the LORD sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed. 19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the LORD, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the LORD?
Saul tried to convince Samuel that He did obey the command, but after some discussion he confessed that he had sinned.
1 Samuel 15:24–25 And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice. 25 Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD.
1 Samuel 15:31 So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.
1 Samuel 15:34–35 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul. 35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 25:1 And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah. And David arose, and went down to the wilderness of Paran.
1 Samuel 28:6–8 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at En-dor. 8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
1 Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
1 Samuel 28:16–19 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
1 Samuel 31:2–6 And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchi-shua, Saul’s sons. 3 And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him; and he was sore wounded of the archers. 4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. 5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him. 6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.
Saul was saved and he was a man of faith evidenced by the fact that he was turned into another man, God was with him and gave him another heart and he prophesied. Though he failed to completely carry out what he was commanded, he did not lose his salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works. The evidence that he did not lose his salvation is the fact that his fellow prophet Samuel, who was also saved told him that he and his sons would be with him when they died. Notice what 1 Samuel 15:35 says, "And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death". Samuel really did come back from the dead when the witch of Endor called him up. This was God’s final word for Saul and it made him afraid. Saul came to the witch in the middle of the night and the following morning he was killed in battle and went to be with Samuel who told him so the night before. Saul’s encounter with the witch of Endor and Samuel and his death occurred on the same day. Unlike Judas, there is no mention that Satan entered into Saul, or that he was possessed of the devil. When an evil spirit troubled him, the evil spirit was always from the Lord who creates evil, Isa 45:7. Saul was simply carrying out Gods sovereign purpose so it could be recorded for our learning.
One lesson that we can learn from Saul is that we need to be vigilant not to live in the flesh, but to live in the spirit and totally depend on the Lord to deliver us from sin and evil. If we refuse to have our sins slain through Christ, they will hinder our fellowship with the Lord and the very thing that we refuse to have slain will catch up on us and slay us and rob us of our reward.
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