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Topic: Are there hypocrites among us?
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bluefrog
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posted
So there, yourself. hehe
Well, it was the way you put it that got me to thinkin you might also mean dead, like dead like a doornail, you know...pushin up dasies.
Speaking of dead....do you know why headstones in grave yards face the east ? I didn't until about 5 years ago. My sister had to splain it to me. I don't think the practice continues for the same reason now days. However, once it started that way they just keep doin it. It was thought that when Christ returns FROM THE EAST to catch up those in the grave, they can rise and see him first thing.
I'm tellin you this to show how smart I am, don't ya know.
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Michael Harrison
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Now many people assume that they are dead, because, they say, scripture says so. But it is not their reality, for it is not so by the (fruitful) understanding of faith.
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Michael Harrison
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Die?
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Unless we die, we run interference.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
This is in other places described as "Going under the Cross."
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
He is implying that to deny one's self means to 'die'.
1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
I see this as meaning that he stays dead to self, and alive to God. But many people are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, but they do not realize the short step to the promised land, which is to 'die - by faith', to therefore be alive to (or by) God. And to really add powder to the keg, remember that Israel 'wandered' in the wilderness for forty years, yet they were only steps away from the promised land.
So there!
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bluefrog
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posted
Are you saying that the only way for us to receive the Way, the Truth, and the Life is to be Dead ?
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Until we are glorified, Jesus will be the ONLY perfect person who has ever lived; when we accept and cover ourselves with the blood of Jesus, God says, "It does not matter who is in the house in Egypt, but when I see the blood, I will pass over", and for the rest I do my best to "confess my sins", not to "commit more sins". How about you?
Jesus is the only perfect person. That is why our goal in seeking Him is to be one with Him. For where we are not, we sin. Where we are not, imperfection reigns. So here is the perfect motivation to understand that we are to be one with Him. And HE makes this possible.
When Jesus died on the Cross, HE replaced us so that we would not have to pay the penalty. But Jesus 'replaced' us on the Cross for a single reason. He replaced us in death, that He may replace us in 'living', if we would only let Him. The reason scripture says that, "He is the way, the truth, and the life," is because He is supposed to be. By being the way, we are supposed to discover by His being "The Way," that HE is our life. And that is the 'truth'. But HE is not our life if 'we' are still living. And some suppose themselves 'dead', when they are nowhere near it. For if these were dead, His life would reign. Here is why HE said to "Take up your Cross and follow me." To take up the Cross is to lay down your life. To take up the Cross is to die, that HE may live. He replaces you. His life replaces yours. You live by Him. And the life you now live in the flesh, you live by the 'faith of God', who loved you, and gave himself for you; but not if you do not come to that place.
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Michael Harrison
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Not at all bluefrog!
So to repeat what 'eden' said to Michael:
quote:
Nobody's perfect except Jesus. God only looks at Jesus and at Jesus's shed blood, and when God sees the blood, God says, "I will pass over". Nobody's perfect except Jesus. God only looks at Jesus and at Jesus's shed blood, and when God sees the blood, God says, "I will pass over".
Jesus will still be the only one who is perfect. And that is the very point. Perfection is 'our' life. If 'Perfection' is not our life, then we 'abide' in sin. But if 'Perfection' is our life: - 1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Note that this passage does not say that when HE (meaning the Father) looks at us, HE sees the blood. This verse indicates that that the blood 'cleanseth' from "ALL" sin. It is that bold. It is that factual. Otherwise we abide in the 'spirit of error', in our understanding.
quote:
After God forgave my sins that are past through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, God now forgives my sins IF I confess them:
Past sins are forgiven sins. However: - Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
....perhaps not! ! ! If a man commits adultry by having her in his heart (desiring it in his heart), then having a desire for the past would essentially be the same.
quote:
Dear Michael Harrison, may I ask, are there some sins which were easier to forsake than others? Or are there any besetting sins that are still with you, no matter how hard you have "tried", like "cursing out a motorist" or saying in your mind "what a bozo" about someone you saw on TV, or anything like that?
When I do, I realize that I have no excuse! It is a choice. But I do not have to. "It is written:"
- 1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Will you argue with this? These are not my words.
There are sins that are easier to forsake. Let's be sure: HE understands. (Heb 4:16) But the focus is wrong here. We are not to focus on 'trying' not to sin. It dooms us.
To repent is not the same as 'trying not to'. It is hard to explain.
quote:
Until we are glorified, Jesus will be the ONLY perfect person who has ever lived; when we accept and cover ourselves with the blood of Jesus, God says, "It does not matter who is in the house in Egypt, but when I see the blood, I will pass over", and for the rest I do my best to "confess my sins", not to "commit more sins". How about you?
[/QUOTE]
In the Old Testament, HE did it a different way. But that event preceeded the Tabernacle. We know what the Tabernacle was about, and the 'keeping of the law, and the sacrifice'. This returns us to the verse above: - 1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
It is a very different thing to be 'cleansed' from all sin, than it is to be 'hidden' by something (like the blood). That, furthermore, is why HE calls us to the light, that we not love the darkness, where we 'hide in our sins'. Huh 'professor'?
And.... There is a difference between sin, and 'sins'. Sin is a condition of unbelief. It is a state of darkness. It is a place of being 'stoned'. One is, in a sense, spiritually dead, when he is 'stoned'. Fellowship with Him is interrupted. He is cheated by us, and cheated 'on' by us. And the reality is that men love the darkness, and cling to it, while running occasionally to get 'forgivness'. He is faithful. But we are missing the lot.
But once 'sin' is dealt with, there will be 'sins'. There doesn't have to be. But this is positional. In one condition, one is perpetually in a state of 'sin'. More on that in a moment. In the victory that HE provides, if we are in, it then becomes a matter of committing a sin, whenever we 'transgress'. NOTE that in order to 'transgress', we must be beyond transgressing, of safe from transgressing. Else we are simply in a state of 'transgressing', and add to that the 'sins' that you mention.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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bluefrog
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I'm not taking sides, don't ya know, but WELL SAID EDEN.
Michael, don't you agree with Eden now that he spelled it out more ?
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Eden
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The indefatigable Michael Harrison wrote to Eden quote:
This makes less sense than what you said before. It doesn't stand in the light of the Word. Sins aren't 'forgiven' unless they are repented of.
Romans 3:25
{Jesus} whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God.
Michael Harrison, Jesus died for my sins that are past. When, after salvation, I still sin because I am born a sinner, I confess my sin and say to the Lord, "Lord, I'm sorry".
For, "Lord, I'm sorry", is not something that I used to say before I was saved. But now that I am saved, I say it, "Lord, I'm sorry"; hopefully I will recognize each time that it happens and will say each time, "Lord, I'm sorry, I have sinned".
So Michael Harrison, to repeat what you wroteMichael Harrison wrote to Eden quote:
This makes less sense than what you said before. It doesn't stand in the light of the Word. Sins aren't "forgiven" unless they are repented of.
Well,...yeah!
You also wrote quote:
But the popular notion is that one's 'sins' are forgiven though one is 'committing' them anyway."
Nobody's perfect except Jesus. God only looks at Jesus and at Jesus's shed blood, and when God sees the blood, God says, "I will pass over".
Michael Harrison continued, quote:
When one takes this as their platform, it is easy to see how that he or she can come by the notion that they "shouldn't sin even more," implying, cumulatively! But let's back up a bit. Sins are not forgiven while one is in them. God forbid that they should be added to.
After God forgave my sins that are past through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, God now forgives my sins IF I confess them:
Proverbs 28:13
He who covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.
Dear Michael Harrison, may I ask, are there some sins which were easier to forsake than others? Or are there any besetting sins that are still with you, no matter how hard you have "tried", like "cursing out a motorist" or saying in your mind "what a bozo" about someone you saw on TV, or anything like that?
Until we are glorified, Jesus will be the ONLY perfect person who has ever lived; when we accept and cover ourselves with the blood of Jesus, God says, "It does not matter who is in the house in Egypt, but when I see the blood, I will pass over", and for the rest I do my best to "confess my sins", not to "commit more sins". How about you?
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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I need fifteen pushups. I noticed strange flabbyness under my arms the other day. It is old-age shabbyness of the old body trying to set in. It is an odd place to see droop, on my ribcage, beneath the underarms. Uuuugh!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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LoL bluefrog!
Uh-hum!
quote:
No, not at all. You know very well that Paul addressed this very issue. Just because our sins are forgiven by grace, does not mean that we can now sin abundantly "because my sins are forgiven any way".
This makes less sense than what you said before. It dosn't stand in the light of the word. Sins aren't 'forgiven' unless they are repented of. But the popular notion is that one's 'sins' are forgiven though one is 'committing' them anyway. When one takes this as their platform, it is easy to see how that he or she can come by the notion that they "shouldn't sin even more," implying, cumulatively! But let's back up a bit. Sins are not forgiven while one is in them. God forbid that they should be added to.
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bluefrog
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How bout 15 push ups for each of you and no more Bite Me comments. hehe
You don't like that ?
Bite Me. LOL
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Eden
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posted
Michael Harrison wrote that Eden was supposedly saying quote:
"I'm ok with sin cuz I don't have any choice, so I am just going to do it," kinda thing (and I'm excusing my accusing).
No, not at all. You know very well that Paul addressed this very issue. Just because our sins are forgiven by grace, does not mean that we can now sin abundantly "because my sins are forgiven any way". The truth is that I myself am sinfull thru and thru, but the new life of God in me does not sin".
And also, why would I begin to sin more now when I am very thankful to God for all that He has done for me? It makes no sense. As Paul said, "Shall I sin more, so that grace may abound? God forbid."
With the Spirit of God leading my steps, things are going better than ever, Michael Harrison.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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GOOD GRIEF, I missed out on how this got started.
That's OK though. I'll just start something myself.
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Michael Harrison
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Do you accuse me in your heart eden? Verily thou dost confirmeth that thou believeth thine own words, ast thou hath said, "man is wicked through and through." And hopelessly so, I believe you said. It's more Romans seven, "I'm ok with sin cuz I don't have any choice, so I am just going to do it," kinda thing (and I'm excusing my accusing). Indeed! For to ignore the accusation in one's own heart is indeed the path to hopelessness and depravity. (Mat 7:3) Since a man is hopelessly depraved, according to the gospel of some, it matters not to them to examine their own heart before lashing out. And isn't that exactly what God was mad at Job's friends for doing? And were they right?
No man finds the way by accusing another in his own heart. (And I will remind myself of Paul's saying that one is to "put off foolish jesting.")
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bluefrog
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AWRIGHT YOU TWO...KNOCK IT OFF !
Kiss and make up... ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
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Eden
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WildB wrote quote:
You people have no idea what's going on, do you?
Job 34:35
Job has spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote quote:
That was a grand-slam bluefrog! Anyone who says that they don't know of any hypocrites, must be one!
Now that was a grand SLAM.
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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That was a grand-slam bluefrog! Anyone who says that they don't know of any hypocrites, must be one! ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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bluefrog
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EDEN...Come on, you know gooder than that.
Hypocrites are people who do not practice what they preach.
They go to a lot of trouble to convert someone then they corrupt them.
They concern themselves with minor details like the law but ignore the important issues.
They get all tied up in the externals but ignore the heart.
They try to appear Holy but in their heart are wicked.
It is a state of spiritual blindness, self-righteousness and wickedness.
You don't know anyone like that ? That's good.
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Eden
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bluefrog wrote quote:
Are there hypocrites amoung us, you ask? You don't even have to go look under the rocks.
I see...you say that "I don't have to go look under the rocks", by which you must mean that "there are many hypocrites", why is it that I personally DO NOT KNOW any hypocrites? bluefrog, where in the church are these hypocrites located, i.e., what do they look like and what are they doing...in your opinion in our modern church that they qualify for the epithet "hypocrite"? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Should have explained...my last post was not about a hypocrit, I just wanted to share it because it might a familiar situation elsewhere.
Don't let a hypocrit get between you and God, because then he will be closer than you. I like that ! Ain't it da trute ?
Are there hypocrits amoung us you ask ? You don't even have to go look under the rocks.
I don't worry much about hypocrits because they know what they are doing. It is only when they get someone to listen or be misled. God will take care of them gooder than I ever could.
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becauseHElives
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yes there have always been Hypocrites, those who think they have achieved perfection in the flesh but the most important thing to individuals around them is to not let the hypocrite get between them and Yahshua because if that happen the hypocrite is closer to Yahweh than they are.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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bluefrog
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Eden and Michael....
About Matt 6:5, I haven't been very long now in the church we now attend because we moved.
I noticed that when the men prayed aloud it wasn't aloud. You couldn't hear them hardly at all and most of the time not at all, even the Amen.
Finally, I approached one of them after serving communion with him. I said "you know, you have a lot of great things to say in your prayers, so why don't you say it loud enough to hear ?". You probably know the answer... Well, I don't want to be like the guy on the temple roof showing off. How sad. Yep, I explained it to him. I was kind. No pitbull that time. lol
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Michael Harrison
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And what defines a hypocrite? It is the deceitfulness in the heart which our Lord was rebuking. When on is not honest with himself before God, and he imposes upon man, accordingly, this is a hypocrite. But scriptures have a lot to say about the heart. Yet, the hypocrit looks beyond these passages, not at them.
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Eden
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Are there hypocrites among the Christians? And what do hypocrites among the Christians, do?
Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Matthew 6:2
Therefore when you do your alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:16
Moreover when you fast, be not as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.
Matthew 16:3
And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O you hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times?
Matthew 22:18
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why do you tempt me, you hypocrites?
Matthew 23:13
But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourselves, neither suffer you them who are entering, to go in.
Matthew 23:14
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses and for a pretence make long prayers; therefore shall you receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and land to make just one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than you yourselves.
Matthew 23:23
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these first ought you to have done, but you should not have left the others undone.
Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Matthew 23:27
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bones and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:29
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous.
Matthew 24
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delays his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And He {Jesus} shall cut him asunder and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
It seems that by "servant of the Lord" in the parable was meant "a Christian", so now we know what hypocrites do, eh?
Are there indeed such hypocrites among us?
Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
love, Eden
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