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Topic: Faith without Works is Dead
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The Beauty of Holiness777
Advanced Member
Member # 7380
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posted
Total agreement on this post Carol. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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Carol Swenson
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We are “created in Christ Jesus unto good works.” We are not saved by good works, but saved unto good works. We are not saved by faith plus good works, but by a faith that works.
The basic Scripture on this theme is James 2, where the writer points out that saving faith always results in a changed life. It is not enough to say that we have faith; we must demonstrate this faith by our works.
The Bible speaks of many different kinds of works. There are “the works of the Law” which cannot save (Gal. 2:16; 3:11). There are also “the works of the flesh” which are listed in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul spoke of “works of darkness” (Rom. 13:12; Eph. 5:11). The “dead works” in Hebrews 6:1 seem to be “works that lead to death,” since “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). The “works of righteousness” in Titus 3:5 refer to religious works, or other good deeds, that sinners try to practice as a means of salvation. Isaiah declared that “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in His sight” (Isa. 64:6). If our righteousnesses are filthy, what must our sins look like!
The “works” Paul writes about, in Ephesians 2:10, have two special characteristics. First, they are “good” works, in contrast to “works of darkness” and “wicked works.” If you contrast Ephesians 2:10 with Ephesians 2:2 you will see that the unbeliever has Satan working in him and therefore his works are not good. But the believer has God working in him, and therefore his works are good. His works are not good because he himself is good, but because he has a new nature from God, and because the Holy Spirit works in him and through him to produce these good works.
It is too bad that many believers minimize the place of good works in the Christian life. Because we are not saved by good works, they have the idea that good works are evil; and this is a mistake. “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven” (Matt. 5:16). We do not perform good works to glorify ourselves, but to glorify God. Paul desired that Christ would be magnified in his body, even if it meant death (Phil. 1:20-21). We should “abound to every good work” (2 Cor. 9:8), and be “fruitful in every good work” (Col. 1:10). One result of a knowledge of the Bible is that the believer is “thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:17, nasb). As believers, we are to be “zealous of good works” (Titus 2:14). Our good works are actually “spiritual sacrifices” that we offer to God (Heb. 13:16).
It is important to note that we do not manufacture these good works. They are the results of the work of God in our hearts. “It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13). The secret of Paul’s good works was “the grace of God” (1 Cor. 15:10). Our good works are evidence that we have been born again. “Not everyone that saith unto Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21). Our good works are also testimonies to the lost (1 Peter 2:12).
But these works are not only good; they are also “prepared.” “Good works which God hath before ordained [prepared] that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10). The only other time this word is used in the New Testament is in Romans 9:23: “vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory.” The unbeliever walks “according to the course of this world” (Eph. 2:2), but the believer walks in the good works God has prepared for him.
This is an amazing statement. It means that God has a plan for our lives and that we should walk in His will and fulfill His plan. Paul is not talking about “kismet”—an impersonal fate that controls your life no matter what you may do. He is talking about the gracious plan of a loving Heavenly Father, who wills the very best for us. The will of God comes from the heart of God. “The counsel of the Lord standeth forever, the thoughts of His heart to all generations” (Ps. 33:11). We discover God’s exciting will for our lives as the Spirit reveals it to us from the Word (1 Cor. 2:9-13).
(Wiersbe)
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WildB
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posted
SIMPLE AS CAN BE
by Cornelius R. Stam
Have you ever heard some preacher say: "There are many things in the Bible which are hard to understand but, thank God, the plan of salvation is as simple as can be."
Well the plan of salvation is simple IF we obey II Timothy 2:15, "rightly dividing the Word of truth." Otherwise it is far from simple.
The Apostle Paul wrote: "We conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28). Yet James wrote: "By works a man is justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24).
Again, at Sinai God said to Israel through Moses: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people ..." (Ex. 19:5). But our Lord said, as He sent His apostles to witness for Him that, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved... and these signs shall follow them that believe: in My name shall they cast out demons, they shall speak with new tongues..." etc. (Mark 16:16-18). Thus, according to their "great commission" water baptism was required for salvation and miraculous signs were the evidences of salvation.
Confusing? Contradictory? Not if we "rightly divide the Word of truth." It was after "the law was given by Moses," after our Lord's earthly ministry, after the commission to the twelve, that God raised up another apostle, Paul, and sent him forth with "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24).
It was Paul who was sent to declare: "But NOW, the righteousness of God without the law is manifested..." (Rom. 3:21). "To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5). "Therefore, being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
Watchman eden sed: quote:
You don't have to be 'hyperclose' to God.
![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) For the record! eden has excused you!
But what does scripture say?
- 1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Moreover:
- 1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
That does not sound close? Neither does scripture say that we should worry about it; Huh? And I guess that word repentence, means little, no?
There is no shortage of those who are willing to attack the truth, or to compare me with the Pharisees. Evidently they cannot interpret scripture. Because he who stands on soggy ground, confident that he does not need more repentence, is in peril indeed. And warned!
For:
- Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Nothing more needs to be said.
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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Member # 7380
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posted
Now why would you post that picture of fruits for someone like me who love fruits to see and crave just makes one want to go to the grocery store!! ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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Carol Swenson
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posted
 The prerequisites for bearing fruit
One must die to this world
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit” (Jn. 12:24).
One must abide in the savior (See Jn. 15:1-5; 16.)
In the Old Testament the nation Israel was God’s chosen vine vessel.
“Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it” (Ps. 80:8).
But Israel refused to bear fruit.
“Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself: according to the multitude of his fruit he hath increased the altars; according to the goodness of his land they have made goodly images” (Hosea 10:1).
Thus, that nation was eventually set aside by Jesus.
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Mt. 21:43).
In the Gospels, Christ was God’s chosen vine vessel while he was on this earth.
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman” (Jn. 15:1). (See also Isa. 11:1; 53:2.)
Jesus told his disciples they were to be branches. The only useful function of a branch is to bear fruit. A branch does not produce fruit, it simply bears it.
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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posted
These are the fruits true Christians should produce in their lives with Christ Jesus.
1. Love
2. Joy
3. Longsuffering
4. Gentleness
5. Goodness
6. Faithfulness
7. Meekness
8. Peace
9. Temperance
These are shown to be positive characteristics by almost everyone in most era.
But to a child of God these are characteristics of both who we are and what we do.
It is the Holy Spirit that gives us the character of Christ.
Even evil bears fruit it can put up a good front for a while. But sooner or later it will show itself.
The fruit of the Holy Spirit it True.
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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That too is right Carol that is why it is said you can judge a tree by it's fruits.
Remember the Fig Tree that had no fruit but was given a chance to bare, and if it bared no fruit in that specific time it would be cut down. The tree had blossom and had leaves and all but it had no fruit to show during it's growth.
The apostles had many works to show for them or we could say they bared much fruit. Inwardly they were Holy and sancitified, and faithful until death; and what they had inwardly manifested outwardly. From the way they preached the gospel, laying on of hands, not backing down even to powers in high places, and their testimonies were also their works. Even the words we speak bare fruit or works, because even our mouth sometimes can kill our works.
The book of Mark 16:17 says these signs shall follow those that beleive. Even when the apostle left a certain town the things they did was still talked about and remembered.
There is so much we are still to learn about God's Word. That's why it is said that we are helpers one to another.
Michael
These should you have done, and not to have left the other undone.
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes, and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith: these ought ye have done, and done to leave the other undone.
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Carol please except my apology, I do not know how I miss read your post, I try to pay closer attention as I read than that....
I edited your name from my post....
because He lives, I live to serve
dale
Thank you for being kind. I sometimes misread things too.
I've been doing some research on this topic.
When the New Testament tells about works, it's usually works of the flesh, or works of the devil, or works of the law. When it tells of good works, they are considered to be fruit of the Holy Spirit.
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God (Col. 1:10).
So, technically, WildB was correct when he said
quote:
True faith is evidenced by the fruits.
Works are of the Law.
Seen this way, he isn't saying that good works are legalism, but rather that good works are not "works" but "fruit".
A difference of semantics, not doctrine.
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Eden
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posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
But there are things which only the Spirit of God knows, which those who have not the Spirit of God in measure, cannot fathom even exists!
Absolutely. There are MANY things, even INNUMERABLE things, that those who do not have the Spirit can even fathom:
1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.
1 Corinthians 2:10
But God has revealed them to us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
Galatians 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And by the way, in the Greek there is NO initial cap "P" so it could also have been translated:
Galatians 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Or,
Galatians 6:8
For he who sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting.
Pick your translation special.
Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers.
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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![[Smile]](smile.gif) quote:
God will render to every man and woman according to their works whether they be bad or good. HE will reward them all.
It will not be about ‘what’ they did, but how they followed. That is why it is important to ‘know Him’. Practical things are within the scope of what to do. Let’s be real! If we see a need, and know to do it, good and well. It will be similar in this case to when the Lord said of something else, “These should ye have done, and not to have left the other undone.”
But there are things which only the Spirit of God knows, which those who have not the Spirit of God in measure, cannot fathom even exists! For if they could it would only be because, “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God.” A very good example would be this one from the chapter of Acts!
Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
This is an example of being ‘led’ by the Spirit of God. Neither will anyone who is complacent in their relationship realize such leading of the Spirit in their life in any matter great or small, but will instead trust in their own strength and wisdom, thinking themselves to be contributing to the Kingdom, likely while accusing another of teaching theological drivel.
But Phillip did not this thing ’which he was moved to do’ in his own strength or knowledge, but in the wisdom of the Lord who only could have known the result, which will have occurred by Phillip having the ‘knowledge’ of the Lord in his person (by the presence of the Holy Spirit). And Phillip’s ‘following after’ resulted in something thererfore ‘eternal’ occuring, being ‘treasure stored up in heaven’.
But those who boast in the flesh are like this verse:
Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.
Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
Luk 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
What will ye? Will you boast in the carnal efforts which you initiate, and count on a reward for it as though you have ‘done‘ something; or will you have ears to ‘hear’ that you may be led of the Spirit? For many who are counting on Heaven will not be there. And many who are thinking that they are laying up treasure, are building instead, wood, hay and stubble, all the while bragging of their worth. This is the appropriate place for a mention of:
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
But some will not in this life, get it!
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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Carol Swenson
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posted
One baptized with the Holy Spirit is also empowered to do works of ministry (Luke 24:49; Acts 1:8). As part of the empowerment for ministry, believers are given the necessary spiritual gifts (Rom. 12:4-8; 1 Cor. 12:1-14:40; Eph. 4:1-16; 1 Tim. 4:16; 1 Pet. 4:10-11) and knowledge and guidance (John 14:26; 16:13).
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oneinchrist
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posted
Very true, much easier said than done. I agree.
We must believe in the cause, and that is what propels us to the action. Once again it is a learning process though. The day of our conversion we are not suddenly perfect.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote quote:
... but loving our enemies is where God desires to bring us for the "acceleration of the gospel".
Of course that assumes that I have enemies, but frankly I'm not THAT important anymore so that I have "enemies" now.
I did have a few people at work who annoyed me though, and it was tough to love them while smoke was coming out of my nose and my ears. I did try my best but I was only partially successful, James notwithstanding. ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
I do think it is "way much easier" to mouth some of these spiritual principles than to actually do some of them.
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
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Hi Eden,
I do not believe that James left it as a mystery. He gave examples of what he meant. Its a growing process whereby we allow the Word of God to impress on our hearts and the Holy Spirit to guide our consciences.........loving our next door neighbor is in some ways expected(if you want him to watch over your house), but loving our enemies is where God desires to bring us for the "acceleration of the gospel".
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Eden
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posted
So, as a practical matter, what kind of works are we talking about here? Mostly helpfulness and being nice to people and giving of our substance, right? I mean, these works are not "mystery" works as if the phrase "faith without works is dead" somehow implied some "mystery" works?
It is basic stuff like sharing of our food, money, and being helpful. And some of these things we already did BEFORE we were saved.
The only work that we probably did NOT do before we were saved was helping to preach the gospel, but the rest of the works are the same works that people do if they want to be helpful, and indeed these are works that many people did and do whether they are saved, or not.
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
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Just like faith without works is dead.......faith without love is dead.
1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
I do believe that Paul in Galatians 5:19-21 identifies "works of the flesh" as adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like.
I agree that it would be wrong to associate "kind acts of compassion with "works of the flesh." In fact, Paul describes love, gentleness, and goodness as "the fruit of the spirit" in Galatians 5:22.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Eden
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Hi, Betty Louise and Carol Swenson, I had said quote:
All our kindnesses that we extend to our neighbors are "works of the flesh", namely we do them with our body.
You are both right in your comments. I was being a bit facetious with that remark. I know I did good works before I was saved and I know that those good works were appreciated by the people who received them. I was mainly trying to state that we don't have to get overly spiritual when it comes to doing good works along with our faith.
To be sure, I am doing more good works now that I'm saved, but a lot of works are merely basic stuff like giving someone a lift or buying them a hamburger or giving someone a dollar, that doesn't require that I first "check with God to see if it's okay to do".
In other words, we don't have to be hyper-close to God as Michael Harrison was implying for these minor works.
If I'm asked for a jumper cable I don't say, "well, I'm really close to God right now so let me go into my prayer closet for the next half hour (because I know how to pray very long by now, I'm a real prayer warrior, you know) and I'll get back with you on that jumper cable thing as soon as I get permission from God through the Spirit". Then the neighbor might say, "hey man, I was only asking you for a jumper cable"?
So that's what I meant, some of these works are so minor in nature that even in the flesh we know how to do them and why we should do them. And the motive can easily be the same: to be nice.
"do unto others as you would have others do to you"
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
All our kindnesses that we extend to our neighbors are "works of the flesh", namely we do them with our body
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I disagree with that statement. Works of the flesh has nothing do with physical works, it has to do with the heart. If you are doing works for the glory of God whether it is physical or spiritual or not is judged by your heart motives. If you do physical work so that people can see Jesus in you, then these are works that will sustain the trying by fire. If you are doing works to show what a "spiritual" person you are these works will burn in the fire. Even cleaning the bathrooms at the Church can be works for God if your motive is do serve God.
betty
Mat 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold [water] only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
[Select for Copy; Double click to (de-)select all] Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
The word "flesh" has about seven different definitions, including the physical body. But the expression "works of the flesh" has a special meaning.
Sinners are called to cast off the works of darkness (Rom. 13:12; Eph. 5:11), sometimes called wicked works (Col. 1:21) or the works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19).
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Carol Swenson
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From Abiding in Christ to Fruit Bearing
If you live in Christ, you eventually will bear fruit. Fruit does not necessarily grow quickly; but it grows continually and bears in season.
Fruit bearing is the normal, natural result of a life that has Christ at the center. Our lives in Christ should continue to grow and expand. Fruit bearing includes the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith fulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5:22-23). As the fruit of the Spirit grows in your life, you reach out to others through ministry and service of all kinds.
Living in the Word leads to a ministry of teaching or preaching.
Praying in faith will lead to a ministry of worship or intercession.
Fellowshipping with believers leads to a ministry of nurture to members of the church.
Witnessing to the world leads to a ministry of evangelism.
Our witness and our fellowship involves Christian service to other people. John 15:13
These ministry areas comprise the ministry of a disciple.
The goal in discipleship is expressed in 2 Timothy 2:21. You need to grow in all spiritual disciplines and ministries to master life and to be prepared for the Master’s use. If you develop all of these disciplines, your life will be balanced and fruitful.
One way to remember is: 1 2 3 4 5
• One Lord as the first priority of your life.
• Two relationships: The vertical relationship with God and the horizontal relationship with mankind.
• Three commitments: Deny self, take up your cross, and follow Christ daily.
• Four disciplines: Living in the Word, praying in faith, fellowshipping with believers, and witnessing to the world.
• Five ministry areas: A ministry of teaching/preaching, a ministry of nurture, a ministry of worship/intercession, a ministry of evangelism, and a ministry of service.
(Disciple’s Study Bible)
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005901#000000
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Betty Louise
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posted
All our kindnesses that we extend to our neighbors are "works of the flesh", namely we do them with our body
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I disagree with that statement. Works of the flesh has nothing do with physical works, it has to do with the heart. If you are doing works for the glory of God whether it is physical or spiritual or not is judged by your heart motives. If you do physical work so that people can see Jesus in you, then these are works that will sustain the trying by fire. If you are doing works to show what a "spiritual" person you are these works will burn in the fire. Even cleaning the bathrooms at the Church can be works for God if your motive is do serve God.
betty
Mat 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold [water] only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
[Select for Copy; Double click to (de-)select all] Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Eden
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posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
Works are the meeting of the needs of our neighbors. And who are our neighbors, is the famous question? And how do we meet the needs of our neighbors? Clearly, it is by (and I love this), knowing Him!!! For who knows their needs better than HE? And if we think we know their needs, might we not minister amiss? So our 'good intentions' that is, our sincerity would be a work of the flesh.
This is theological drivel. If we are bornagain, we have the Spirit of God and we have the advice and counsel of God. But it does not take spiritual rocket science to notice if someone needs a ride somewhere or if they seem to have no food or to be kind and considerate and helpful to our neighbor.
To repeat what Michael Harrison said quote:
And how do we meet the needs of our neighbors? Clearly, it is by (and I love this), knowing Him!!! For who knows their needs better than HE?.
No, who knows their needs better than YOU because you live right next to them or because YOU see the need with your OWN eyes. God has already given you the spirit to help, so now, help where YOU see the need.
quote:
And how do we meet the needs of our neighbors? Clearly, it is by (and I love this), knowing Him!!!
How does KNOWING HIM help your neighbor? You may be having a lot of fun in your house KNOWING HIM, but your neighbor needs a ride, man! At most, your neighbor is glad that YOU know Him, because that will increase your neighbor's chance that you WILL give him a ride.
quote:
For who knows their needs better than HE? And if we think we know their needs, might we not minister amiss? So our 'good intentions' that is, our sincerity would be a work of the flesh.
All our kindnesses that we extend to our neighbors are "works of the flesh", namely we do them with our body. Your neighbor doesn't give much of a rat how "spiritual" you are, he just wants a ride or some jumper cables or a hamburger.
Like I said, "theological drivel".
love, Eden
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Eden
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John 5:17
But Jesus answered them, My Father works hitherto, and I work.
Luke 2:49
And He said to them, How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be about my Father's business?
As members of the family of God, let us also work as good sons and daughters of God, helping out in the family business.
By faith I was adopted in the family of God, and now that I am in, I work in the family of God.
But it is not all work; there is also great pleasure and laughter and joy in the family camp of God.
Job 36:11
If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Psalm 16:11
You will show me the path of life: in Your presence is fulness of joy; at Your right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Psalm 36:8
They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of Your house; and You shall make them drink of the river of Your pleasures.
faith unto salvation, work in the family business as good sons and daughters, while having a life full of pleasures. It does not get much better than that.
love, Eden
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becauseHElives
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Carol please except my apology, I do not know how I miss read your post, I try to pay closer attention as I read than that....
I edited your name from my post....
because He lives, I live to serve
dale
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Bloodbought
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Even the penitent thief on the cross was able to do something by witnessing to the other thief.
Luke 23:39-41 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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Revelation 22:12
And behold I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according to his work shall be.
God will reward us according to our works; And faith that worketh by love (For God is Love) bring forth good works when we have His Spirit within us.
Galatians 5:5:6
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing nore uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.
God will render to every man and woman according to their works whether they be bad or good. HE will reward them all.
God's Word never contradicts itself; the two still goes hand in hand (Faith and Works).
The sinner will be rewarded for his works.
But if the beleiver even though he or she has faith and have no works where is their reward.
Jesus didn't saved any of us to sat on the stool of do nothing.
AND TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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Michael Harrison
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Works? What works? Works are the meeting of the needs of our neighbors. And who are our neighbors, is the famous question? And how do we meet the needs of our neighbors? Clearly, it is by (and I love this), knowing Him! ! ! For who knows their needs better than HE? And if we think we know their needs, might we not minister amiss? So our 'good intentions' that is, our sincerity would be a work of the flesh. For only in His wisdom is the Spirit administered. And this is what scripture is talking about when it says that "Rivers of living water will flow from our innermost being." (Oh! I forgot. That river dried up with the ending of the Apostles, at least for some.)
But Enoch would be a good place to look to see a working example of this. And Enoch did not his own thing. He knew what the Lord would do. This is because of 'relationship'. And Enoch's relationship was so strong, that what happened to him?
Works are what God does when we are close to Him. They are not what the 'good ol boys' with good intentions, after the manner of the Boy Scouts do. They are what God does, if, and as we are yielded to Him. For relationship with Christ is real. For HE calls us 'friend'. And if someone is a friend, as we, by His words, are to Him, he or she 'knows' the thoughts and intents of the bosom buddy, and can 'act' on them, knowing what HE (our God) will do, and therefore what results can be expected! This can be called 'living relationship', and the works can be expected to last, as we are laying up treasure in Heaven when these works are accomplished.
Amen!
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Bloodbought
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Legalism is self-righteous works. Good works are the outcome of the believer’s fruit. Each tree is known by its fruit. For the believer, sin has been judged by faith in Christ, but there will be a judgment of works. The believer is justified by faith, and judged by works,
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Notice they didn’t know they did anything good because the Lord was doing it through them. If someone says look how much good I’m doing it’s not a good sign. The fruit should only be seen by others.
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Carol Swenson
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Part of what I posted reads:
quote:
The question in James 2:14 should read, “Can that kind of faith save him?” What kind? The kind of faith that is never seen in practical works. The answer is no! Any declaration of faith that does not result in a changed life and good works is a false declaration. That kind of faith is dead faith. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone” (James 2:17).
then becauseHElives posted:
quote:
The Beauty of Holiness777 presented a good post... but WildB and Carol are trying to make out what was said as legalism....
TRUE The Beauty of Holiness777 presented a good post
FALSE Carol is trying to make out what was said as legalism
There is a difference between legalism and good works.
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Bloodbought
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So if works must accompany faith, then salvation is not by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, as is so often quoted by believers.
Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Both Ephesians 2:8 and Ephesians 2:10 are performed by God, they are inextricably linked, we can’t have one without the other and if we have one we have the other, but neither of them are alone.
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becauseHElives
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well said Daniel, Amen
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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Paul warns us not to see ourselves as our own saviours, discounting the "work" of God/Christ........and James admonishes us to look at ourselves in the mirror of the Word of God to see if we exhibit the "works" that ought to flow from one who confesses faith in God/Jesus.
Do you see how the context of the word "works" is important to understanding the message that the writers are trying to express? Paul leans us away from self-exaltation/pride and James leans us towards self-examination and assurance(that one is in the will of God).........
both are very important messages!!
If we see that we are guilty of self-exaltation or pride we need to confess it to God as sin........
If we see that we do not exhibit "works" that should flow from faith that is in Jesus we need to question our sincerity towards God, we need to question our trust in the gospel teachings, and we need to question a possible lack of dependence on God for help by the power of the Holy Spirit.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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becauseHElives
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It is so sad to hear people talk about this kind of topic....
The Beauty of Holiness777 presented a good post... but WildB is trying to make out what was said as legalism....
No individual is justified by any thing they do ...but if they are not doing something their Faith is dead...
If a so called child of Yahweh see a need and does nothing they are deceiving themselves thinking they are a Christ like person...
Jhn 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
work is not a dirty word.... nor is it a word that is not very spiritual...
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Hbr 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Faith is an action word, not a passive word...
by Grace are you saved...through Faith (action upon the Grace that has been given)
show me your faith without works (action) and I will show you false faith....
real faith will always be accompanied with works (action) produced by the Grace that has been given into the heart...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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Hi, The Beauty of Holiness777, I agree with your nice Topic post quote:
Before God we are justified by our faith because "WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD".
Faith has to be seasoned just as Abraham's faith and others was tested so shall we who are called His be tested.
Faith seasonned by works, that is true faith. In fact, brother Abraham and
sister Sarah for a time failed this test of faith, when "there was a famine in the land of Canaan" and Abraham and Sarah "went down into Egypt".
Not long before this, Abaham and Sarah had been told that they would "have descendants as the sand of the sea", so if Abraham and Sarah had stayed in Canaan, the LORD God would have "had to do something", a miracle, for Abraham and Sarah if they had stayed in Canaan.
love, Eden ![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
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Carol Swenson
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The contrast between works and fruit is important. A machine in a factory works, and turns out a product, but it could never manufacture fruit. Fruit must grow out of life, and, in the case of the believer, it is the life of the Spirit (Gal. 5:25).
When you think of “works” you think of effort, labor, strain, and toil; when you think of “fruit” you think of beauty, quietness, the unfolding of life.
The flesh produces “dead works” (Heb. 9:14), but the Spirit produces living fruit. And this fruit has in it the seed for still more fruit (Gen. 1:11). Love begets more love! Joy helps to produce more joy! Jesus is concerned that we produce “fruit … more fruit … much fruit” (John 15:2, 5), because this is the way we glorify Him. The old nature cannot produce fruit; only the new nature can do that.
The New Testament speaks of several different kinds of “fruit”: people won to Christ (Rom. 1:13), holy living (Rom. 6:22), gifts brought to God (Rom. 15:26-28), good works (Col. 1:10), and praise (Heb. 13:15). The “fruit of the Spirit” listed in Gal. 5:22-23 has to do with character.
To help a person in need is an expression of love, and faith works by love (Gal. 5:6). The Apostle John emphasized this aspect of good works. “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and truth” (1 John 3:17-18, NIV).
The priest and Levite in the Parable of the Good Samaritan each had religious training, but neither of them paused to assist the dying man at the side of the road (Luke 10:25-37). Each of them would defend his faith, yet neither demonstrated that faith in loving works.
The question in James 2:14 should read, “Can that kind of faith save him?” What kind? The kind of faith that is never seen in practical works. The answer is no! Any declaration of faith that does not result in a changed life and good works is a false declaration. That kind of faith is dead faith. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone” (James 2:17).
Faith in Christ brings life (John 3:16), and where there is life there must be growth and fruit, including good works.
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WildB
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Anybody can work a work.
But The Fruit of the Spirit,
Non can foreign.
2Kgs.5
[13] And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?
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That is all.....
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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Sorry I am not talking about the "Fruits of the Spirit". I know what they are.
When speaking of fruits concerning Faith it is only speaking of works. Read the scriptures more in depth it is saying nothing about fruits of the spirit only faith and works.
Faith is an action word so faith without action (works) is dead
What you are speaking on is another topic all together.
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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WildB
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Not so . True faith is evidenced by the fruits.
Works are of the Law.
Gal.5
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Eph.5
[9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
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That is all.....
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The Beauty of Holiness777
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True faith evidenced by Works:
James 2:14-26
What doth it profit, my brethern, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be you warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled that saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the "Friend of God."
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Before God we are justified by our faith because "WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD".
Faith has to be seasoned just as Abraham's faith and others was tested so shall we who are called His be tested.
Reference:
The Faith Hall of Fame (Hebrews 11:1-33)
It is impossible to show one's faith before others without works. Because before men we are justified by our faith and works.
When scripture speaks of faith without works is dead it doesn't mean that one has no faith. It means that the faith they have is not fruitful it is barren. True faith is not present.
In James 2:21-25 does not say that by the works of Abraham and Rehab their faith came into existence. Their faith was present and recognized by God before it was ever demonstrated by their works. Works always followed saving faith.
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship,created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed God might be careful to maintain good works.
(These things are good and profitable unto men.)
Our faith and our works not only builds and strenghten us but when we testify to others and they see our works it is an encouragement to them as well. It even help to win souls for Christ through God working in us.
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law;
For they are unprofitable and vain.
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In God I'am Complete.
I am a "Spiritual Being" living in a physical body.
{Prayer - a force that reaches people and places when we can't}
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