|
Author
|
Topic: Regeneration
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Isaiah 48
17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD your God who teaches you to profit, and who leads you by the way that you should go.
love, Eden
IP: Logged | 
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Michael,
That was a quick response...lol. First I see your name and then 30 seconds later..."poof!".. this whole post is up on the screen. Thanks for the clarification. One of the reasons why I asked you what I asked you is because the book of Acts does describe the sound of a "rushing wind" in conjunction with the presence of the Holy Ghost.
Keep the faith Michael, I really believe that God is helping us grow, learn together, and learn about each other.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
1 N C! That is interesting! It fits rather well, and I'm sure that someone has that testimony. But as Carol said, it was an inflation thing. When I thought of that, I was thinking of how a raft inflates when that plug is pulled. Have you ever seen it? Those things go from wrinkled to presentable like a jack in the box! But for the record, I have friends in the faith who could have sat on a fence post watching each other grow. Because, for them, it came on slowly, until one day their eyes were wide with realization.
We cannot put God in a box. He deals with each of us differently concerning some things. The point is, if one is truly seeking Jesus, things will happen that they cannot help, that are clearly of Him.
It is like this. If someone has a garden, and they have a hose, and the water at the faucet is on, but they don't have the hose hooked up to the faucet, well, some water may reach the garden, but if the hose is hooked up, God (the water) will bless the garden. But some would rather chat with the neighbor rather than hook up the hose! Chatting with the neighbor is like 'doing' all the busy stuff, but neglecting the source.
Joy joy joy joy down in my heart; down in my heart; down in my heart.
Joy joy joy joy down in my heart; down in my heart to stay! And I'm so happy. So very happy, I have the love of Jesus in my heart. And I'm so happy, so very happy....
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Carol,
I guess that I was assuming that Michael was attempting to describe a sound. I am not sure what else he would be describing with that sort of imagery......sight? taste? smell? sound? feeling? maybe feeling??hmmmm..... I guess we will both have to wait and see.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
"Sinners cannot obey the gospel, any more than the law, without renewal of heart."
- J.I. Packer
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
oneinChrist
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Michael,
You stated that the spirit sounded to you like the stem of a raft was pulled.
So are you saying that it sounded like wind?.... a "rushing wind?"
With love in Christ, Daniel
Since Michael isn't here at the moment, I'll add a word or two.
Michael didn't say anything about "sound". He said that he went from a near empty condition to a filled condition very suddenly, spiritually speaking. The filling of the Spirit.
We are regenerated, born again, only once when we first receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. But we are filled with the Holy Spirit many times in our lives as we make ourselves available to Him for His work in and through us.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Michael,
You stated that the spirit sounded to you like the stem of a raft was pulled.
So are you saying that it sounded like wind?.... a "rushing wind?"
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Regeneration
Gk. paliggenesia, “a being born again”
Born again! That is even better. Because wildb loved my 'baby Jesus' sermonette. So, when one believes, it is because of the 'hearing of the word', so that, "Belief comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." And what happens? Baby Jesus is born in the heart of the "Believer." For amplification, that means that if the believer believes (which is why he is labeled believer) then baby Jesus is born in the stable (manger) of the heart. And that is how it is too. He is just a little baby Jesus in the heart of man.
Well! That is when he is born again, thank you Carol for keeping it on track. Now, here is what is important about that? Jesus made it into the heart, but what about the Spirit? That is what happened to me two weeks after I was saved. Jesus came into my heart. I knew it. I was different already believe you me. But there was more. And I got it! My spirit was thirsty. My spirit was begging for more of God. So HE poured over me, washing me in His blood, and filling my spirit with His Spirit. That was Pentecost, and that was what happened, the same as those guys who were accused of being drunk when God originally visited the Upper Room. I was drunk on the Spirit of God too. For how can one contain God in one of these 'earthen vessles' - casually?:
- 2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
But they who have a form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof (2 Tim 3:5) cannot get ahold of this. For it is not their 'experience' per se. They are not willing to draw nigh to God, and because of their unbelief, they are not able to see it in the word. Well, neither could I. I didn't read the word to find out. God in HIS sovereignty visited me before I had the chance to consider. Who can argue with Him? And thank God too, for I would have been stupid...
Until then, Jesus was still a baby in my heart. But when I was 'filled' with the Spirit, it was like the stem of an inflatable raft was pulled. And poof! ! ! That thing unfolded and spread out into a usable condition quicktime. And I saw differently, for my new eyes were not worldly anymore. Bless God! Amen.
So God made me to be born again. Then He didn't 'neglect' my spirit, and He washed my spirit and my soul in the Blood of Jesus, and placed His Spirit into my spirit. That clarifies it well!
And over the years I have witnessed this happen to churches who were dry as powered pancake mix. The Spirit fell, and sometimes churches were split right down the middle.
There was Lamplighter Baptist Church, here in Charlotte, to whom this happened. One day He just came. Everyone was evidently receptive, for I beleve that the whole church was changed. And my lifelong friend, Darlene, her church experienced the same thing. Only, it split down the middle. They tried to hold it together, but I don't think it took. Some people just want nothing to do with it. They don't want God that close, so it became two churches. One lifeless, and the other persecuted.
I knew a lady once to whom this happened. She was the neighbor to my friend Neil. He used to visit her and talk about Jesus. When he described what happened to him, this lady was a little astonished. She said, "Is that what happened to me? I was sitting there in church and then something happened. It is hard to explain." Welp! We were in concensus, Neal and I.
So there we have it. I see the outer court, where we reach when we believe in Jesus. Then there is the inner court, which is when our Spirit experiences the washing of regeneration, (something beyond being born again), and is filled with the goodness of God, and then there is the Holy of Holies! Wow! And the next revelation of God is the Promised Land. It is the sanctification experience (which is entered by faith!).
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Regeneration
Gk. paliggenesia, “a being born again”
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Regeneration is when God joins, or fills the Spirit of man with His Spirit. For that is when a man is renewed.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God (put
verse # here). Regeneration comes by (seed)
faith. Regeneration is dependent upon simple
faith, which itself is 'energized'
upon 'hearing' the word.
Perhaps they have 'confused' the two, thinking
that the energizing upon hearing, is
regeneration?
No doubt that the theologians have an esoteric notion about the mechanics of a predisposition which leads one to enlightenment which authors his or her conversion, but Jesus said to put Him first, not their notion of locomotion.
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Regeneration
(Gk. paliggenesia, “a being born again”). The spiritual change wrought in man by the Holy Spirit, by which he becomes the possessor of a new life.
It is to be distinguished from justification , because justification is a change in our relation to God, whereas regeneration is a change in our moral and spiritual nature. The necessity, in the one case, is in the fact of guilt; in the other, depravity. They coincide in point of time and are alike instantaneous, and thus are both covered by the general term conversion, as that term is popularly and loosely applied. Still they are distinct in that the one is the removal of guilt by divine forgiveness, and the other is the change from the state of spiritual death to that of spiritual life.
Regeneration is also to be distinguished from sanctification , inasmuch as the latter is the work of God in developing the new life and bringing it to perfection, whereas the former is the beginning of that life.
Regeneration is represented in the Scriptures principally by such terms as “born again,” “born of God,” “born of the Spirit” (see John 3:3-13; 1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1; 1 Peter 1:23).
(Unger)
God begat us by “the word of truth” (James 1:18). We are “born again,” says Peter (1 Peter 1:23), “of incorruptible seed, by the word of God.” We are “begotten through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:15). These scriptures teach us that regeneration takes place in the heart of man when he reads or hears the Word of God , or the Gospel message, or both, and, because of the Spirit working in the Word as well as in the heart of man, the man opens his heart and receives that message as the Word of life to his soul. The truth is illuminated, as is also the mind, by the Spirit; the man yields to the truth, and is born again. Of course, even here, we must remember that it is the Lord who must open our hearts just as He opened the heart of Lydia (Acts 16:14). But the Word must be believed and received by man. 1 Pet. 1:25.
MAN IS REGENERATED BY THE PERSONAL ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS CHRIST.
This is the clear teaching of John 1:12, 13 and Gal. 3:26. We become “children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” When a man, believing in the claims of Jesus Christ receives Him to be all that He claimed to be—that man is born again.
Man therefore is not wholly passive at the time of his regeneration. He is passive only as to the change of his ruling disposition. With regard to the exercise of this disposition he is active. A dead man cannot assist in his own resurrection, it is true; but he may, and can, like Lazarus, obey Christ’s command, and ‘Come forth!’
Psa. 90:16, 17 illustrates both the divine and human part: “Let thy work appear unto thy servants,” and then “the work of our hands establish thou it.” God’s work appears first, then man’s. so Phil. 2:12, 13.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Rom 10:17So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:14¶How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
hello, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
The belief that I have a difficult time with is when "regeneration" appears to be looked at as a "selection process" instead of a "washing of the word."
I think that initially the Word of God functions as a "selection process" as the spirit words of the Word of God begin to speak to and make the spirit of man alive again.
This initial working of the Word of God (through reading and hearing) then stirs faith in the soul and the soul either repents of self-rule or the soul rejects the initial working of the spirit words in him.
1 Peter 1
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever.
If the soul repents and becomes saved by faith, then the spirit words of the Word of God begin to function additionally as a "washing by the Word", as the Word of God begins to separate (divide asunder) the soul's functions from the spirit's functions and the mind is renewed, and so on by the written Word of God.
At the same time, now that the person is saved, the Holy Spirit comes into that person and so there is a further regeneration that occurs from the inside out as well.
But clearly the spirit words of the Word of God initially function as a re-generator or as a re-birthor of the spirit of man, and after faith and salvation, then the Word of God essentially continues this process as "washing by the Word" which can also really be called "re-generation" or "re-birthing".
Be blessed, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Good morning Eden,
I do agree with your explanation on the mechanics of the type of "regeneration" that would precede faith. This is what I believe would incorporate a working of the conscience by God. It is following this process(hearing of the Word) that I believe that God patiently waits for our response.....
a timeless truth which I believe reflects in this verse in 2Chronicles 7:14......
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land".
The belief that I have a difficult time with is when "regeneration" appears to be looked at as a "selection process" instead of a "washing of the word."
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
According to the reformed theologians "regeneration" comes before faith because the Holy Spirit must bring new life before the sinner can by Gods enabling exercise faith and accept Jesus Christ.
Dear oneinchrist, regeneration DOES come before faith, and this is how: by hearing or reading the Word of God:
Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So faith does not come by the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit cannot be given until AFTER a person has had faith to believe in Jesus.
First God must generate FAITH unto salvation in us. This faith starts in us by hearing or reading the Word of God and that starts the process of regeneration in us.
This is how it works. The words of the Bible are spirit and life:
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.
The spirit of the Word of God byapsses the soul and speaks directly to the spirit of man, which in the process "comes alive again" for it is the spirit that quickens. This is not the Holy Spirit which comes into us AFTER salvation, but the spirit of the written Word of God quickens or begins to talk directly to our spirit of man.
As the soul experiences that his spirit of man is coming alive, the soul has a choice to make. Is what has been conveyed to his spirit about Jesus true.
If the soul agrees that it's true and the soul agrees to abdicate, then the soul is saved and at that point the Holy Spirit comes inside the help the process along from the inside also.
But the initial "regeneration" is done by the spirit words of the Word of God, not by the Holy Spirit Who comes inside later.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
According to the reformed theologians "regeneration" comes before faith because the Holy Spirit must bring new life before the sinner can by Gods enabling exercise faith and accept Jesus Christ.
The word "regeneration" occurs 2 times in scripture. In Matthew 19:28 Jesus uses "regeneration" signifying a future event, and in Titus 3:5 Paul uses "regeneration" in a metaphor----"washing of regeneration".
In Jesus' use of the word "regeneration" it can be safely concluded that faith precedes it, but in examining Paul's use of the word "regeneration" there is no apparent language to pin-point a sequence in relation to faith.
I would like to know the biblical basis(proof) for the reformed theologians' view that regeneration comes before faith???
Note:
Definition of regeneration: New Birth; spiritual change brought about by the Holy Spirit in those who trust in Christ(2Cor. 5:17-21) See also New Birth; Salvation
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
