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Author
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Topic: The Spirit's Baptizing
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” (2 Cor 3:18)
You and I can share the image of Jesus Christ and go “from glory to glory” through the ministry of the Spirit of God.
Under the Old Covenant, only Moses ascended the mountain and had fellowship with God; but under the New Covenant, all believers have the privilege of communion with Him. Through Jesus Christ, we may enter into the very holy of holies (Heb. 10:19-20)—and we don’t have to climb a mountain!
The “mirror” is a symbol of the Word of God (James 1:22-25). As we look into God’s Word and see God’s Son, the Spirit transforms us into the very image of God.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
So, the message is this. What one already knows is almost surely short of that which he can. God is huge. HE is full of what HE would impart to he who would receive. So the question is this: Are you one of those who is willing to come into the outer court, and remain, or will you heed the call?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
Well, I have over the years learned that God works in different ways. Everyone does not experience His light according to the 'formula' of a single believing community. And that these communities are usually not flexible, which I have come to feel, causes harm to a few who feel dejected, or rejected because they did not come by everything the same way that the particular denomination's inductee did. But clearly, some believers do not believe, to the extent that these do, about some manifestions of the Spirit, including the gifts. This seems to indicate that they are 'missing' a part of the blessing of God. For the way that the communities of which I speak view this, is that someone has 'not' come into the "fold," if the one has not the same appreciation for these manifestations. And in the 'fold' is the place to be, which is why they exhort people the way that they do.
It is a court, inner court, Holy of Holies thing. It seems that some come into the court and stop there. Others reach the inner court. Still others reach the Holy of Holies, and some do not recognize any stages of such description, and are blessed to start in the Holy of Holies (albeit few). But for most there are distinct stages, of which most will only experience the outer court of salvation.
We are called to the Holy of Holies. For HE said that we would be Kings and Priest after that HE had come. And the way that this is so is by the very Spirit which HE gives to indwell us. But just because HE indwells us does not mean that we get to the Holy o f Holies! That is where sanctification comes in. For without it, we abide sort of in the world and a bit in the heavenlies at the same time, but we don't see Jesus, and put it into future tense.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Well Carol, I testify otherwise. I do not have to be ashamed of the testimony. Will anybody else, when all things are revealed on that day?
What do you testify?
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
When scriptures says that they will be done away, how presumptive is it to believe that they meant then? For, meat is for the belly, and the belly for meat, and they shall be done away, but when? When the physical body is no longer a player in the scheme of things. That clearly means, "Later."
Later! ! !
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Well Carol, I testify otherwise. I do not have to be ashamed of the testimony. Will anybody else, when all things are revealed on that day?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
Exactly Thunderz7! Not everyone recieves the gift of speaking in tongues. There are diversities of gifts but the same Spirit.
Paul said he wished that all spoke with tongues(meaning not everyone did) BUT even more he wished that all prophesied.
Why would he say this?
Because he knew that for those who do speak in tongues did not speak to Men but to God, for "no one understands him" (1 Corinth 14:2) because "in the spirit he speaks mysteries."
"But he that prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men"
"He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the body/church."
Speaking in tongues is a gift from God and not everyone in the church recieves this gift. Paul knew this and also knew that the Corinth church was "zealous for spiritual gifts" (14:12)
So he told them how the operation of speaking with tongues should be done in corporate worship, no more than 3 speaking in tongues and not all at once but each in turn and there needs to be an individual there who can interpret it. That would be there gift from God. One who can interpret tongues.
Then we also know that Paul had this gift of speaking in tongues but in the corporate setting he would rather speak 5 words with understanding so as to teach others.
Discontinuance of spiritual gifts was not Pauls solution to their abuse. The guidlines he has given will provide safeguards assuring order in a corporate service.
Yes, all are Baptized into One body, but the body is composed of arms, legs, hands, eyes, ect..
Seperate but united. Each individual bringing something into the body. Not all will prophecy, not all are teachers, not all are preachers, not all have gifts of healing, not all speaking in tongues. But all bringing into the body what Yahweh God has gifted them with.
Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
Acts 18:1 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
v1-disciples?
v2-since you believed?
v3-John's baptism!
v4-believe.
v5-baptized in name?
v6-And?
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
CONFUSION CONCERNING THE SPIRIT’S BAPTIZING
Confusion surrounds this area of pneumatology, (doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit), causing divisions among believers and obscuring of this great truth. Why is this so?
One reason for the confusion relates to an unclear conception of the body of Christ . If one believes that the church began with Abraham or with John the Baptist then it will likely be more difficult to see the distinctiveness of the baptizing ministry of the Spirit in this age. So baptism is usually made a synonym for the conversion experience (Donald Guthrie, New Testament Theology [Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1981], p. 564). But if one recognizes the body as a work of God which began at Pentecost, then the necessity of the Spirit’s baptizing people into that body will be clear.
Overemphasis on water baptism, particularly by immersion, often obscures or even obliterates the doctrine of Spirit baptism. If the two truths are not distinguished, usually the truth of Spirit baptism gets lost, for it is regarded simply as another way of talking about water baptism.
The contemporary Pentecostal association of baptism of the Spirit with a second blessing and/or with the experience of tongues as the evidence of having been baptized adds to the confusion.
Sometimes baptism of the Spirit and filling of the Spirit are not distinguished with the result that the “filling-baptism” happens subsequent (following) to conversion and not to all believers. This view does not necessarily involve speaking in tongues. It considers baptism an infilling for special power.
Admittedly, sometimes this lack of clarity is innocent; but regrettably sometimes these misconceptions are deliberately promoted. In either case believers are robbed of an important truth that involves our union with Christ and a solid basis for holy living.
(Basic Theology)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
CONTEMPORARY DOCTRINE OF TWO SPIRIT BAPTISMS
Because 1 Corinthians 12:13 is so clear about all believers being baptized, and because some contemporary teachers want to justify the concept of a special baptism for power (a second blessing) , a doctrine of two Spirit baptisms has arisen that is, as far as I know, a new teaching.
Whereas old Pentecostalism uniformly taught that the baptism of the Spirit was an endowment for power, tongues being the evidence of the experience, newer Pentecostalism sees two baptisms.
One is that of verse 13 which all believers experience and is accomplished by the Spirit and places people in the body of Christ.
The other is the baptism seen in the Book of Acts and is accomplished by Christ to place people in the Spirit for experiences of power. The first happens at conversion and results in a position; the second occurs later and can be repeated and is for power. The first does not require speaking in tongues; the second ideally does.
The New Testament uses the phrase “to baptize with, in, or by the Spirit” only seven times (Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33; Acts 1:5; 11:16; 1 Cor. 12:13). Actually these seven occurrences can be placed in three categories: the predictions in the Gospels, the pointing ahead and pointing back to Pentecost in the two Acts references; and the doctrinal explanation in 1 Corinthians. In the Gospels it appears more natural to understand Christ as the Baptizer and the Spirit as the sphere into which people are baptized. In Acts and Corinthians it seems to be more natural to understand the Spirit as the Agent of baptism and the body of Christ as the sphere into which people are baptized.
However, those distinctions are not hard and fast. Both Christ and the Spirit are Agents, and both the Spirit and the body are spheres. Christ is the ultimate Agent for He sent the Spirit who is, so to speak, the intermediate Agent (Acts 2:33). Clearly the body is one sphere, and the Spirit is another. This is similar to the Spirit’s work in sealing—He is both the Agent who seals and the sphere in which we are sealed.
However, neo-Pentecostalism needs to make sharp distinctions . The references in the Gospels and in Acts, they say, are references to Christ as Agent and the Spirit as sphere which bring power to the believer. This is the baptism in the Spirit. The reference in 1 Corinthians reveals the Spirit as the Agent and the body as the sphere and is the baptism by the Spirit. All believers have been baptized by the Spirit, but not all believers have experienced the baptism in the Spirit.
Interestingly, ultradispensationalism uses the same argument for two baptisms to support their teaching of two churches within the Acts period. The Petrine church, or Jewish church, existed from Pentecost to Paul, and the body church from Paul on. The Jewish church received power by the baptism in the Spirit, and the Pauline, or body, church is formed by the baptism by the Spirit (Charles F. Baker, A Dispensational Theology [Grand Rapids: Grace Bible College Publications, 1971], p. 503).
Such an infrequently used and seemingly technical phrase would more likely refer to the same activity in all its occurrences. To establish two separate and quite distinct baptisms is tenuous at best. To see two agents is biblical because of Acts 2:33 and quite normal because different Persons of the Trinity are often involved in the same work. Besides, Ephesians 4:5 says there is only one baptism. It is Christ’s work through the agency of the Spirit’s ministry to join those who believe to the church, the body of Christ, with all the privileges and responsibilities that come with that position.
(Basic Theology)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
CONSEQUENCES OF THE SPIRIT’S BAPTISM
A. It Joins Us to the Body of Christ
This involves the following great and, often convicting truths. Being in His body means we are risen with Him to newness of life (Rom. 6:4) and we should exercise our gifts to keep that body functioning properly (the context of 1 Cor. 12:13).
Experiencing the one baptism serves as the basis for and exhortation to keep the unity of the body (the context of Eph. 4:5).
The nonnecessity for a second baptism assures us of the security of our position in His body.
B. It Actualizes Our Crucifixion with Christ
Being associated with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection establishes the basis for realizing our separation from the power of indwelling sin and our walk in newness of life (Rom. 6:1-10; Col. 2:12).
(Basic Theology)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SPIRIT’S BAPTIZING
A. It Is Operative Only in This Dispensation
As already pointed out, no Old Testament prediction of the baptism exists, and our Lord said it would happen for the first time when the Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1:5). Later Peter called this “the beginning” (11:15-16). Also the purpose of the baptism, to join believers to the body of Christ, and the distinctiveness of the body to this dispensation, support the conclusion that this is a ministry operative only in this dispensation.
B. It Is Experienced by All Believers In This Dispensation
Three facts support this conclusion. The central text, 1 Corinthians 12:13, clearly states that all have been baptized just as all have been made to drink of the Spirit (through His indwelling). That this was said of the church people of Corinth, which included such a variety of spiritual conditions, indicates that carnality does not cause one to miss this ministry.
Nowhere in the Scriptures is there a single exhortation for anyone to be baptized with the Spirit. This indicates that all believers have experienced this ministry.
If “one baptism” in Ephesians 4:5 refers to the baptism of the Spirit (which is most likely), then it is something true of the same group who have “one Lord” and “one faith,” i.e., all believers.
C. It Occurs at Salvation and Is Not Repeated Thereafter
If it did not occur at salvation then there would exist believers who were truly saved but who, because they had not been baptized with the Spirit, did not belong to the body of Christ. Baptism is what joins a believer to the body, so if one could be saved and not baptized, he could be an out-of-the-body believer.
If baptism needs to be repeated, then it could only be if the believer were detached from the body of Christ and needed to be rejoined. Since the first baptism at conversion joins one to the body, then if a second baptism is needed, there would have to have been a removal from the body between the two baptisms.
(Basic Theology)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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