|
Author
|
Topic: Catholic condition at the time of Luther!
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
human nephesh hayya and animal nephesh hayya also have the SAME BREATH OF LIFE in them:
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH of life; and man became a living soul.
This word "breath" is in Hebrew NESHAMAH. The animal nephesh hayya also had this same NESHAMAH breath in them, as shown from Noah's flood when the animals died:
Genesis 7
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the BREATH of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
This word BREATH which is in the nostrils of the animals of Gen.7:21 is again the Hebrew NESHAMAH, the very same NESHAMAH breath that God breathed into Adam in Genesis 2:7.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH (neshamah) of life; and man became a living soul.
So both humans are nephesh hayya and animals are nephesh hayya, and they also have the same neshamah breath in them.
Human nephesh hayya differ from animals only in that human nephesh hayya are created in the image of God; this is never said of the animal nephesh hayya.
love, Eden
IP: Logged | 
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosemary:
I think sometimes we spend too much looking
at our differences & lose sight of the true enemy.
Hi Rosemary,
It's nice to meet you. Is this what you mean?
Ephesians 6:10 - 12 (NLT)
10 A final word: Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on all of God’s armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. 12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
De Rosemary quote:
posted August 29, 2008 05:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think sometimes we spend too much looking
at our differences & lose sight of the true enemy.
Hum! It is as though you are saying that we may be disposed to see the differences to be our enemy! What a way of saying it rosemary, a unique way.
Our enemy of course is not even the devil. Our first and foremost enemy is our self. Satan can use self to mess up a lot of things.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
Rosemary says! quote:
posted August 29, 2008 08:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a follower of Jesus.
Bless the Lord! That is a wonderful statement Rose.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Rosemary,
Its nice to meet you. Did anyone say that a Catholic cannot be a follower of Jesus?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Rosemary
New Member
Member # 7341
|
posted
I am a follower of Jesus.
Posts: 2 | From: Syracuse,NY | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
Rosemary
New Member
Member # 7341
|
posted
I think sometimes we spend too much looking
at our differences & lose sight of the true enemy.
Posts: 2 | From: Syracuse,NY | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
Keith
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
YBnC: If the soul is not immortal, then only the ones filled by the Spirit of God would live after the 'body' dies. The rest of individuals would cease. This would be inconsistent with the regenerated soul's being hurt by the second death,, which is promised to those who reject HIM.
That is why there is a second resurrection. It is those who take part in the first resurrection that the second death has no power over.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected, just at different times, and for very different reasons.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Don't you think it would be kind of silly to pull people out of eternal hell to put them back into their bodies, just to throw them back into eternal hell? What sense would that make? None. The righteous and the wicked are asleep in the grave until the resurrection, at which time they are awakened to recieve their reward. They are asleep because they are no longer living souls. The breath, or spirit has gone back to God who gave it, until the resurrection.
1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Thes 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Y. b. in C. Keith
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
YBnC: If the soul is not immortal, then only the ones filled by the Spirit of God would live after the 'body' dies. The rest of individuals would cease. This would be inconsistent with the regenerated soul's being hurt by the second death,, which is promised to those who reject HIM.
My soul has been "torn to pieces," but it was not shredded as lettuce, though. It was intact, but disrupted. It's kinda like:
- 2Co 1:8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
I will submit that Paul's soul was torn.
But it begs to be answered: Ed, well cornfed sez that animals have souls. That means that they can be saved! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) So I must start preaching to them huh? ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) Sometimes it seems that critters would be better company than lotsa people whom I know. ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Keith
unregistered
|
posted
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.
05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'
from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}
AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)
When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.
Eccl 12:5..….. because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?
Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.
Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:) 5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end one ones life does? Yes it will.
Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is it’s end. When life ends, it ends.
Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.
If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.
Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.
Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.
Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?
Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:
God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.
Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?
Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
Again, why wold a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.
Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death,[/b mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 [b]I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.
Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.
Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.
Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Again, the soul is identified with the person. If the person lives, the soul lives. If the person dies, the soul dies. A soul is a living person with a body combined with the breath, or spirit from God.
Matt 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.
Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.
Acts 2: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.
Acts 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.
1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.
Heb 10:38-39 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.
James 5:19-20 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.
Rev 16: 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, when they die they are no longer a soul, or a dead one. This could not be possible if a soul were immortal.
Y. b. in C. Keith
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
For from my youth, even before I was a Christian, I believed that animals did not have souls.
Again, animals do not HAVE souls but the Bible says animals ARE souls or living creature (a "hayya nephesh"). The Hebrew word "nephesh" is also often translated in the KJV as "he" or "she" or "I". For example, the Hebrew may say, "the nephesh is hungry" and then the KJV says "he is hungry".
A study of the "nephesh" shows that the "nephesh" can touch, be hungry, feel, and so on, and its approximate meaning seems to be "the whole being", "the entity", "the whole creature".
As for animals having emotions, will, and mind, I do not doubt for a moment. I once had an amazing experience with a horse that I had rented for a couple of hours. As I led it out of the corral to the beach, it stubbornly refused to go thru a hole in the fence that led to the beach. But finally the horse went thru and we galloped happily together on the beach.
Upon my return I led the horse to the same hole to reenter the corral, but this time the horse darted with me on it about 50 feet to the right of my hole and stopped in front of another hole, moved its head up and down as if to say, "see, stupid, THIS is the hole we usually go thru" and then it whipped around and ran back to my hole and went into the corral through that...clearly enjoying the whole trip.
So do animals have wills, emotions, and mind. Absolutely. But animals are NOT made into the image and likeness of God.
Many Christians will be surprised to learn that man and animals even have the same breath of life, which I can prove to you if you want to see it.
Michael H., you further said quote:
So what shall I do now? Shall I believe that animals have minds, wills and emotions? I do believe animals have thoughts, though they are not like we have. I think that they have limited emotions. Well, is that evidence of a will, when one stray dog slowly decides to warm up to someone wooing it with a dog treat? Aha! Now I know. They don't have spirits!
If I am not mistaken, animals DO have spirits:
Ecclesiastes 3:21
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward, and the spirit of the animal goes downward to the earth?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
I have given consideration to things, from time to time that some time ago I wouldn't have. In the post preceeding this, your presentation is interesting to think about. After all, we get stuck in a rut in our thinking, and rather stubbornly overlook the obvious as a matter of course, just because we seem to have rather nifty blinders which are convenient. Of course this one, to my knowledge will be news to the established beliefs of the Church. For from my youth, even before I was a Christian, I believed that animals did not have souls. So what shall I do now? Shall I believe that animals have minds, wills and emotions? I do believe animals have thoughts, though they are not like we have. I think that they have limited emotions. Well, is that evidence of a will, when one stray dog slowly decides to warm up to someone wooing it with a dog treat? Aha! Now I know. They don't have spirits!!! How then will they be saved?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael H., the difference between human nephesh hayya and animal nephesh hayya is that human nephesh hayya are made in the image and likeness of God.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
But by the way, I have seen a few rats in church, both human and animal. OMG. ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
living creature {Hebrew, "nephesh hayya")
Well, perhaps this only refers to the animal in us, which is our body! That is what we have in common with animals. The soul is the mind and emotions, which is mediated by the will. (Haven't we had this discussion already?) The soul of man continues after that he has died. I believe that this is the popular consensus. And the spirit is the illumination of the soul, which places it within the soul. Wanna hear my banana illustration?
The soul is who you are. You are not your body. Your soul is your personality! Get it? Mind, will emotions! Your body is not your personality. Your spirit may be part of that makeup, but your body is animal! Hollywood can affirm this is so.
But just to make it confusing:
- Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Have we been messing up since Jesus was crucified? Because I am not aware of anyone who has preached to the pets! I have never seen one in church. As I recall, St. Francis of Assisi may have preached to the animals. At least he aparently befriended them.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hello, Michael H. You wrote to Eden quote:
Then you are lost! Christians believe not anything such. Only people have souls.
Regarding the bolded part, the Bible does NOT say that man HAS a soul, but that man BECAME a soul:
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul.
The English words "living soul" are in Hebrew, "nephesh hayya", the exact same words used for animals. Only, for animals, the KJV translators showed their superiority bias by translating "nephesh hayya" for animals as "living creature", but for man they made the same phrase "nephesh hayya" into "living soul".
The Bible states that man does NOT HAVE a soul, but that man BECAME a soul:
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul (Hebrew, "nephesh hayya").
Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature {Hebrew, "nephesh hayya") after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
I actually advanced this excerpt from the book because of the discussion thread, "Revelation xiii by W.O. Ephraim," found in the discussion forum, "End time events in the news." Since current wisdom holds that the Catholic Church is the key player in the age of the apocolypse, this seemed fitting to note.
I thought it fitting for this thread because of the relevance to ceremony, and churchianity. But that it is relevant to the age of the apocolypse is also to be included with the fact of the "Inquisition," which was part of an enduring story of rivalry between Islam, and the Church. It is such that it still might endure, although it seems to be in the past. For Europe has an Islam problem at present. Who is to say that the Catholic Church will not consolidate to withstand it? Albeit, it will not be a Holy Church. A Holy church may be a hard sell in an age of apostacy.
I am inclined to believe that this much which is understood concerning end time events, is correct concerning who the woman is who is prostutiting herself, aka the apostate church.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Then you are lost! Christians believe not anything such. Only people have souls. Only souls can be saved. You never hear of anyone preaching to the animals. There is no commission to do so because they simply do not have souls. Only Hindu's believe like that!
I must confess however, that there is a pet or two, or three of mine which I hope to find in heaven! I don't see how it is possible, but perhaps it can be true.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Dear Michael H., your article said quote:
It was the fashion at the papal court to attack Christianity. You could not pass for a well-bred man, unless you entertained some erroneous or heretical opinion on the doctrines of the Church. They had endeavored to convince Erasmus, by means of certain extracts from Pliny, that there was no difference between the souls of men and of beasts.
Dear Michael, RE the words that I worded, if I may, it indeed seems to be Biblically true, that BOTH man and animals ARE SOULS. They DO NOT HAVE souls but they ARE SOULS. Here is the witness of Scripture:
Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In Hebrew, the words translated "living creature" and "living soul" are both the same words, "nephesh (soul) hayya (living)".
The Bible declares that BOTH man and beast are NEPHESH HAYYA, "living creature" or "living soul".
Now, herein do the KJV translators show some bias. When it came to animals, the KJV translators had NO PROBLEM translating "nephesh hayya" into LIVING CREATURE.
But when the English Tudor 1611 translators came to translating "nephesh hayya" FOR MEN, then, "OMG, let's not use 'living creature', I'm ready to be FREE, let's call ourself LIVING SOUL!!!"
Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
So to repeat what the article said[quote]It was the fashion at the papal court to attack Christianity. You could not pass for a well-bred man, unless you entertained some erroneous or heretical opinion on the doctrines of the Church. They had endeavored to convince Erasmus, by means of certain extracts from Pliny, that there was no difference between the souls of men and of beasts.
That was in fact true. Both animals and men ARE souls. That is not where our difference is located.
love, Eden
"make love our aim"
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
From “The Life and Times of Martin Luther,” by Moody Press, by J.H. Merle D’Aubigne, Translated from the French by H. White and revised by the author.
Before Martin Luther had understood that “the just shall live by faith,” while he was still in training at Wittenberg, he made his first journey to Rome. This is an excerpt of what transpired there.
Several times Luther repeated mass at Rome. He officiated with all the unction and dignity that such an action appeared to him to require. What affliction seized his heart after he witnessed the sad mechanism of the Roman priests, as they celebrated the sacrament of the altar! They laughed at his simplicity. The priests at an adjoining altar, to one at which he ministered, had already repeated seven masses before he had finished one. “Quick, quick!” repeated one of them, “send our Lady back her Son”; making impious allusion to the transubstantiation of the bread into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. At another time Luther had only just reached the Gospel when the priest beside him had terminated the mass. “Passa, passa!” cried the latter to him, “make haste! Have done with it at once.”
His astonishment was still greater when he later found in the dignitaries what he had already observed in the inferior clergy. He had hoped and expected better things of them.
It was the fashion at the papal court to attack Christianity. You could not pass for a well-bred man, unless you entertained some erroneous or heretical opinion on the doctrines of the Church. They had endeavored to convince Erasmus, by means of certain extracts from Pliny, that there was no difference between the souls of men and of beasts. Some of the pope’s youthful courtiers maintained that the orthodox faith was the result of the crafty devices of a few saints.
Luther’s coming from the German Augustine’s procured him invitations to numerous meetings of distinguished ecclesiastics. One day he was at table with several prelates, who displayed openly their buffoonery and impious conversation. They did not scruple to utter a thousand mockeries, thinking, no doubt, that he was of the same mind. Among other things, they related, laughing and priding themselves upon it, how, when they were repeating mass at the altar, instead of the sacramental words that were to transform the bread and wine into flesh and blood of our Savior, they pronounced over the elements this derisive expression: :anis es, et panis manebis; vinume es, et vinum manebis (Bread thour art, and bread thou shalt remain; wine thour art, and wine thou shalt remain.) Then, they explained that they elevated the host, and all the people bowed down and worshiped it. Luther could hardly believe his ears. His disposition, one of animation and even gaiety in the society of friends, was serious whenever sacred matters concerned. The mockeries of Rome were a stumbling block to him. “I was,” said he, “ a thoughtful and pious young monk. Such language grieved me bitterly. If ‘tis thus they speak at Rome, freely and publicly at the dinner table, what would it be if their actions corresponded to their words, and if all-pope, cardinals, and courtiers- thus repeat the mass! And how they must have deceived me, who have heard them read devoutly so great a number!”
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif) What therefore will the Catholic Church be at the time of the tribulation?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
