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Topic: THE GOSPEL THAT PAUL PREACHED
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Eden
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posted
GlorybelongstoHim wrote quote:
Eden;
Are you WildB's mentor can he not speak for himself?
I'm not his mentor, although on this bbs we are all "students and teachers" in one form or another. He can speak for himself quite well" ("stop your sillyness"), and sometimes others speak "for" or "about what he said" as well. ("that's all")
love, Eden
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Glory belongs to Him
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Beware of wolves in sheep clothing for they are those that;
1. Boast of gifts but are empty
2. Are clouds without water
3. Forms without substance
4. Those who have no weight and are carried about by every wind of doctrine.
The Apostle Paul definitely did not have another gospel. He preached only one "The Gospel that God gave."
Eden;
Are you WildB's mentor can he not speak for himself?
Here is a flash for you which you probably have encounter already.
Some of the newly saved Christians know more than some of the saved Christians that have been saved for a while. Because of studying the word and spending time with God and not going along with man's opinions.
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If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
You are not here to learn together. You are here to DIVIDE The brethren. You tell everyone else, except for those who share the same view as you, to STOP THEIR SILLYNESS. It is a prideful and arrogant attitude to think that you are the king of "rightly dividing". There is not one single human soul that can rightly divide the entire bible as if they are "Righteousness" themselves. The Holy Spirit will help us, but that is as long as we remain teachable to Him. I would respect you more if you would be willing to give full explanations for your disagreements than to just respond back in an accusatory fashion.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Im just pointing out that you are shallow as it maters to things that differ.Prov.27
[17] Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend
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That is all.....
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oneinchrist
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posted
Wild B,
You are not here to learn together. You are here to DIVIDE The brethren. You tell everyone else, except for those who share the same view as you, to STOP THEIR SILLYNESS. It is a prideful and arrogant attitude to think that you are the king of "rightly dividing". There is not one single human soul that can rightly divide the entire bible as if they are "Righteousness" themselves. The Holy Spirit will help us, but that is as long as we remain teachable to Him. I would respect you more if you would be willing to give full explanations for your disagreements than to just respond back in an accusatory fashion.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Wild B,
Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter.
Different ministries does not mean different gospels. In the above verse "circumcised" and "uncircumcised" would be referring to a different audience. In other words, Peters call, was by and largely to bring the gospel to the unbelieving Jews; whereas, Pauls mission was to bring the SAME gospel to the gentile nations.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Oh Danial , please learn to Rightly divide the word before you post again.
http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html#intr
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That is all.....
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Wild B,
Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter.
Different ministries does not mean different gospels. In the above verse "circumcised" and "uncircumcised" would be referring to a different audience. In other words, Peters call, was by and largely to bring the gospel to the unbelieving Jews; whereas, Pauls mission was to bring the SAME gospel to the gentile nations.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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posted
WildB wrote to becauseHElives quote:
What, do you do sit up all night thinking of ways to undermine the simple faith of others?
And then GlorybelongstoHim wrote quote:
WildB, can you explain "simple faith"?
GlorybelongstoHim, I laughed when I read how you wrote: "WildB, can you explain 'simple faith' of others"?
WildB probably "does not have himself in mind" when he wrote "undermine the simple faith of others, and by others WildB presumably had in mind...newly saved Christians who have "recently only have been saved" and are "still oh, so vulnerable right now".
And maybe, one of them is sitting in the pew of this Internet Bible Forum? And if he or she IS sitting in the "pew" of this Internet Bible College, do you think?? that they are "vulnerable"?
I don't think so. If they are online to thechristianbbs.com Bible Forum, I think it is much more likely that they are "learning something" rather than us "undermining his or her 'simple faith'". It is MUCH MORE LIKELY that the person would be LEARNING SOMETHING FROM US than that the person's NEW "SIMPLE" FAITH would be somehow UNDERMINED by so-and-so's post here and there.
When WildB wrote not to "undermine the simple faith of others, by others WildB presumably had in mind...newly saved Christians who had "recently been saved" and were now "still oh, so vulnerable".
We would be blessed if even ONE such "newly saved Christian" (of simple faith), were listening to any of us. LOL
love, Eden
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Glory belongs to Him
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posted
Explain simple faith!
I do divide and some of yours are off that's aaaaalllllllll. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Selah
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If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Glory belongs to Him:
Quote by WildB to becauseHElives
quote:
What do you do, sit up all night thinking of ways to undermined the simple faith of others?
WildB can you explain "simple faith".
Seems as though some of the scriptures you give also need to be rightly divided.
Selah
Then rightly divide it.
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That is all.....
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Glory belongs to Him
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posted
Quote by WildB to becauseHElives
quote:
What do you do, sit up all night thinking of ways to undermined the simple faith of others?
WildB can you explain "simple faith"?
Seems as though some of the scriptures you give also need to be rightly divided.
Selah
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If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
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Eden
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posted
But let me try to address what you wrote: quote:
Even the High Priest had declared, before the death of Jesus, what the death of Jesus would do for Israel.[quote]Jn 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also He should gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.
Well, I do think you have a point there. I do agree with you that when the Bible uses the phrase "the children of God" in this case, it would have had to refer to "the house of Israel that was dispersed among the nations", because in teh Bible, no one else is ever called "the children of God". Fair enough.
So may I ask, was the Lord also referring to the house of Israel when He said:
John 10
16 And other sheep I have [which are not of this FOLD: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Now, it struck me that in my Biblesearch key word entry I was inputting "flock" and that got no return.
In the end, I find out that the verse above does NOT say FLOCK, but says FOLD. Now, FOLD is a place where MEMBERS OF THE SAME FLOCK can be KEPT.
Assuming that by FLOCK was meant "the house of Israel-Judah" AND "the house of Israel-Ephraim", then these TWO COULD BE IN DIFFERENT FOLDS, but they are MEMBERS OF THE SAME FLOCK. I do take note that Jesus said,
John 10
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this FOLD: them also must I bring, and they shall hear My voice; and THERE SHALL BE ONE FOLD, and one shepherd.
And by THERE SHALL BE ONE FOLD, Jesus surely meant, THERE SHALL NO LONGER BE TWO FOLDS. Hmmm, interesting.
love, Eden
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Eden
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posted
Hi, brother scythewieldor, maybe it would help our discussion if you could address us more "specifically and individually" instead of referring to us by:
"Dear Believers,"
thanks, Eden
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scythewieldor
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Dear Believers,
Even the High Priest had declared, before the death of Jesus, what the death of Jesus would do for Israel.
quote:
Jn 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
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Eden
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posted
oneinchrist, I'm glad that I don't have to answer WildB's list. LOL
love, Eden
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
The view that Peter somehow had only a partial understanding of gospel truth is quite a discredit to the One who appointed him as the leader of the flock........dont you think?
With love in Christ, Daniel
In addition to the distinctions between the ministries of the twelve apostles and Paul, the Scriptures also clearly distinguish between the ministries of Peter (as leader of the twelve) and Paul.
1. Where did the "transfiguration" of our Lord take place?
2. In what greater glory did Paul later see Christ?
3. What did the voice from heaven say at the "transfiguration"?
4. What was the significance of the "transfiguration"?
5. What did the voice from heaven say to Paul when he first saw the glorified Lord?
6. In what way was this significant?
7. How did the details of the "transfiguration" harmonize with Peter's ministry?
8. How did the details of the revelation of Christ to Paul harmonize with his ministry?
9. What had been the apostles' reaction to Christ's prediction of His death and resurrection?
10. How had Peter responded?
11. How should the "transfiguration" have affected this situation?
12. Give three Scriptures describing Saul's role as persecutor of Christ.
13. How did God reply to Saul's (and Israel's) rebellion against Christ?
14. Give one Scripture indicating that God began a new dispensation with the conversion of Saul.
15. Give one Scripture indicating the relation between Christ's rejection and Paul's suffering for Christ.
16. Give one Scripture indicating that we too are to suffer for Christ's rejection.
17. Give three indications that Peter's mission to Cornelius was one of the first steps in the unfolding of the mystery.
18. What was Peter's vision on Joppa's housetop intended to teach him?
19. What was Paul's vision in the temple intended to teach him?
20. What relation was there between Peter's visit to Cornelius and Paul's subsequent ministry among the Gentiles?
answers can be found Chapter VII.
PETER AND PAUL AS
WITNESSES
http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/chapter7.html
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That is all.....
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Eden
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posted
Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
There was no "thank you for salvation, I will catch up to you guys later when I have time".
That's for sure, oneinchrist.
And I think that the true meaning of water baptism was much better understood in those early days, what water baptism meant.
As in, "going underwater" meant acknowledging that God had crucified me in Christ, and where "coming up out of the water" testified to the good angels and evil angels and principalities that are, whose side you are now on and also that you hereafter will "by faith believe that God is now going to stream this new life to me", and so my new life begins "as alive unto God", which is represented by the "coming up out of the water again".
No one should seek water baptism until they understand its meaning "of assenting to burial because God has put me in Christ" and "coming up out of the water, not depending on my own self anymore, but now listening to what the Holy Spirit wants me to do next".
Water baptism is important because it signifies to the "powers that be", especially to "those who would prefer not having to look at it", before those wicked angels and before God's good angels, a testimony is made by the believer who now has himself or herself water baptized after believing.
But a believer should first understand that God has "put him in Christ" and that God has "made him alive in Jesus Christ by the resurrection" and that God will "now stream new life to the new believer[/b]. When a believer understands that, then water baptism should be done.
What bothers me about my view above is however, "where did the newly believing Ethiopian get the "whole gospel", as it were, so that the Ethiopian "immediately asked for water baptism?
Acts 8
34 And the eunuch answered Philip and said, I pray you, of whom does the prophet speak this? Of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip began at the same scripture, and preached Jesus to him.
36 And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water: and the eunuch said to Philip, See, here is a body of water; what hinders me now from being baptized?
37 Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, you may. And the eunuch answered, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
I see... Is that all that the eunuch had to believe for him to be allowed to receive water baptism next?
And what was the eunuch's, and Philip's hurry that they should "stop in that heat at a body of water "just to water baptize this Ethiopian eunuch"?
Acts 8
40 But Philip was next found at Azotus: and passing through there he preached in all the cities until he came to Caesarea.
"just to be baptized"?
Acts 8
38And when he commanded the chariot to stand still, they went both down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him there.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more: and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Hi, oneinchrist, greetings to you in Christ, you wrote quote:
Peter was appointed as the leader of the church by Jesus.
I assume you base the view that Jesus appointed Peter as "leader of the church" on this verse:
Matthew 16:18
And I say also to you {Peter}, that you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
There is some debate whether Jesus meant "Peter" when Jesus said "and upon this rock I will build my church", as others think that Jesus said, "you are Peter, but upon this rock {Jesus} I will build my church.
So whether Jesus appointed Peter as the leader of the early church is debatable, especially when we later see that Paul became the apostle to the uncircumcision (to the Gentiles wherever Paul encountered them} and Peter became the apostle to the circumcision {the Israelites whereveer Peter encountered them).
So, oneinchrist, to repeat what you said: quote:
Peter was appointed as the leader of the church by Jesus.
In the end, Paul and Peter were pretty much co-leaders of the church.
love, Eden
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Betty Louise
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posted
Looks like Paul and Peter were on the same page.
betty
2Pe 3:14
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
2Pe 3:15
and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
2Pe 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
2Pe 3:18
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
The view that Peter somehow had only a partial understanding of gospel truth is quite a discredit to the One who appointed him as the leader of the flock........dont you think?
Would you please show me how to rightly divide Peters words in Acts 2:38?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Peter was appointed as the leader of the church by Jesus. His words "Repent, be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" were under the direct inspiration of the Holy Ghost Himself. The mistake that some individuals make is to assume that Peter is emphasizing a need for a water baptism when what Peter is really emphasizing is the Name of Jesus Christ and faith in His Name for remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here is an illustration of wrong emphasis:
Repent, be BAPTIZED every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here is an illustration of right emphasis:
Repent, be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
If a man came foward in a sincere repentance, and faith towards Jesus........baptism then was an occasion for a true conversion. I also am convinced that prior to baptism that there was an understanding that they were going to be a disciple of Jesus. There was no "thank you for salvation, I will catch up to you guys later when I have time".
With love in Christ, Daniel
Biblical, but NOT Rightly Divided.
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That is all.....
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oneinchrist
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Peter was appointed as the leader of the church by Jesus. His words "Repent, be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" were under the direct inspiration of the Holy Ghost Himself. The mistake that some individuals make is to assume that Peter is emphasizing a need for a water baptism when what Peter is really emphasizing is the Name of Jesus Christ and faith in His Name for remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here is an illustration of wrong emphasis:
Repent, be BAPTIZED every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here is an illustration of right emphasis:
Repent, be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
If a man came foward in a sincere repentance, and faith towards Jesus........baptism then was an occasion for a true conversion. I also am convinced that prior to baptism that there was an understanding that they were going to be a disciple of Jesus. There was no "thank you for salvation, I will catch up to you guys later when I have time".
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The Apostle Paul had a special revelation of the Gospel of Yahshua... the Apostle Paul did not have have another Gospel....
and how come the "once saved always saved" teacher miss the word if in the scriptures.....
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
if is always a condition....
if you do this this happens, if you don't it will not....
What do you do , sit up all night thinking up ways to undermined the simple faith of others?
THE NOBLE BEREANS
by Cornelius R. Stam
We have said that the Bereans were commended for listening with open minds to teachings which they had never heard before. Yes, when they were confronted with them. It was the Athenians, not the Bereans, who made it their policy to consider as many viewpoints as possible on every subject (Acts 17:18-21).
The strength of the Bereans was that they kept close to the Scriptures. When confronted with some new doctrine, they did indeed give it an interested hearing, but then "searched the Scriptures daily whether those things were so" (Acts 17:11). Had they found anything in Paul's message which contradicted the Scriptures they would immediately have rejected it. And for this God calls them "noble." They were the truly great, the spiritual aristocracy of their day. Too many believers today aspire to be like the Athenians rather than the Bereans. They say they wish to have open minds, and this is good if it is remembered that an open mind is like an open mouth; not everything should be put into it.
The Athenians went to the other extreme from the Thessalonians, who would not even consider a new doctrine when confronted with it -- would not even consider it in the light of the Scriptures. The Bereans were the wisest of the three. They kept close to that blessed Book, and, when confronted with unfamiliar teachings, immediately subjected them to the test of Scripture.
This is the wisest course, even if only because we are all limited in time and strength. Obviously we cannot spend a great deal of time looking into the conflicting teachings of men without sacrificing a great deal of much-needed time for Bible study, and in the measure that we do this we are bound to grow spiritually weaker.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
The Apostle Paul had a special revelation of the Gospel of Yahshua... the Apostle Paul did not have have another Gospel....
and how come the "once saved always saved" teacher miss the word if in the scriptures.....
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
if is always a condition....
if you do this this happens, if you don't it will not....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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WildB
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by Russell S. Miller
“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
“By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
“And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (ICor.15:1-4).
Do you recall that during our Lord’s earthly ministry, and the announcements of His approaching crucifixion (Mark 8:31; 9:31; 10:33,34), that His disciples didn’t comprehend a thing He had said to them about His impending death (Mark 8:32; 9:32; 10:35)?
“And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken” (Luke 18:34).
But it is suggested by some that the words of Christ in Luke 24:25-27 show that our Lord there revealed what He actually accomplished at Calvary. If the Lord had revealed to his disciples that “Christ Died For Our Sins” as He later revealed to the Apostle Paul, this would surely have been the good news that Peter and John would have preached on Pentecost. Instead we find Paul using the personal pronoun “I” in I Corinthians 15:1-4 regarding “the gospel” which he had “received” of the Lord Jesus, and “declared” and “preached” and “delivered,” to the Corinthians, and to us.
In early Acts the Apostle Peter had only known, and preached, the resurrection of Christ to sit upon the throne of David’s prophesied kingdom. He did not know what the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ had accomplished, nor did Peter preach Paul’s gospel at Pentecost. He rather called upon Israel to “repent” of their wickedness in the crucifixion of Christ and submit to water baptism “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:22-31, 38; 3:22,23). Clearly, at Pentecost, the disciples of our Lord did not know what the cross of Calvary meant; else they would have preached it from the housetops!
On the contrary, God raised up the Apostle Paul for the specific purpose of proclaiming Paul’s gospel for the obedience of all peoples today (Rom.16:25,26). And all this, beloved, though first revealed to Paul, is consistent with Paul’s words in Romans and Corinthians and Colossians that Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was “according to the Scriptures” (ICor.15:3,4).
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That is all.....
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