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Topic: Spirit, Soul, and Body: By Mary Fairchild's take!
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Michael Harrison
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So the verse is neither metaphor, or simile. It is literal! For it says that the Word of God 'is', and not what it 'is as', and then tells what it does. If this is not the experience of the reader (what it does), he or she has not entered behind the vail.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Watchman eden said quote:
It's an allegory for the BODY. spirit, soul, BODY (1Thes.5:23), figuratively, joints and marrow.
The Word of God or the Bible is a MANUAL describing the CORRECT functions of the spirit of man, the soul, and the body of man.
love, Eden
Appreciated!
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Michael Harrison
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Exactly! This scripture is a bullet directly to the heart, which slays the 'old man' who ties the hands of God in his or her life. But what does the hearer do? He (or she) 'dodges' the bullet. But he or she will not always.
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Michael Harrison
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http://knowgramming.com/metaphors/metaphor_and_simile_difference.htm
As a metaphor the argument is valid. The word is quick and powerful, piercing, to the dividing asunder.... It is alive and strong. It can cut to the innermost heart and reveal the wicknedness, but remove it from being a factor, and thusly divide asunder soul and spirit, "which are united at the heart," because of sin and unbelief, and free them to their respective operational functionalities.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
"It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires."
This is metaphor? This is literal. Why beat a dead horse? I must rest from the nonsense.
Seek the Lord while HE may be found!
Quick and powerful: Metaphor?
Piercing: Metaphor?
Dividing asunder:
What is hard to understand about that? I just don't get it. How do you metaphorically 'divide asunder' a soul from the spirit? In any case, however you cut it up, separation is not a metaphor, because something 'distinguishes' one from the other. The 'difference' between soul and spirit, is illustrated, when a certain action takes place. This action is when the Sword 'discerns' the thoughts and intents of the heart. But not only! There must be a response to this revealing of the 'thoughts and intents' of the heart. That would be to repent into the glorious light, wherein one will find that he or she is 'indwelt' and he or she discerns between who HE is, and who they are.
There is distinction. There is revelation. The reason for this is that the waters of the soul and spirit are parted. The light does this! Remember that? The light? It is the same as "The Sword."
Get this? "If the eye is single.." "...the body is full of light." Even if you don't believe it, if the eye is 'not' single, the soul and spirit are hopelessly interwoven, and the soul is 'excessive' in presence.
Pentecostals are excessive. Their soul and spirit are not divided. Their soul is way to prominent, and their spirit overcome. Their soul, in trying to 'pump up the well', or to 'manufacture the things of the Spirit', imitates hopes of the real spirit to see the manifestations which they hope of Him, and of which they are now aware are real. Basically, they just go about it the wrong way. Instead of dying and getting out of the way of the Spirit, they live, and crowd the Spirit with their own 'carnal' efforts. God has not called them to this fanaticism. They are 'full' of the Spirit, but they are also full of 'dirt', (which amounts to mud). They are full of the carnal, which they don't recognize, blinds the heart. God wants to cinch the 'carnal' and take it out of the way so that they can see.
Why beat a dead horse? I must rest from the nonsense.
The word has been explained. So sorry that you don't see it. For I am not asking, lest anyone mistakenly assume. The Spirit and soul are divided when the "Eye is Single" because the 'Sword of the Spirit', pierces to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, in illuminating the inward man. This is amplified in the second part of the verse, "If the eye is single, the body will be 'full' of light."
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Carol Swenson
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Revelation 7:9 - 10 (KJV)
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Matthew 25:34 (KJV)
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote quote:
It is a long way down from astride the spirited stallion reared back with hoofs making the air, down to a man's knees where he can receive the Kingdom of God. But no man thinks to look there.
Good one. But may I say, that MILLIONS have looked there and received the kingdom of God.
Romans 11:3
Lord, they have killed your prophets and dug down your altars; and I am left alone, AND they seek my life.
Romans 11:4
But what said the answer of God to him? I have reserved to myself 7,000 men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote quote:
dividing asunder of ... the JOINTS and MARROW. I don't know what joints and marrow is an alegory for...
It's an allegory for the BODY. spirit, soul, BODY (1Thes.5:23), figuratively, joints and marrow.
The Word of God or the Bible is a MANUAL describing the CORRECT functions of the spirit of man, the soul, and the body of man.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Hi, Michael Harrison, you wrote quote:
One will not find anything more doctrinally sound than the separation of soul and spirit.
The spirit and the soul DO need to be separated? Why? Because the soul has been performing the functions that originally belonged to (and can only be carried out properly) by the spirit.
And so these functions of the spirit need to be SEPARATED from the soul because, after faith and repentance and salvation, it has become clear to the soul that these functions that the soul has been performing DO NOT BELONG TO THE SOUL, so the functions of the spirit MUST BE SEPARATED FROM THE SOUL and be RETURNED TO the spirit of man.
And this is accomplished by reading and hearing of the Word of God:
Hebrews 4:12
For the Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This separation is NOT a separation of the physical instruments spirit and soul; these have never themselves merged. But their FUNCTIONS HAVE BEEN MERGED into the soul's functions, and THAT is the part that needs to be DIVIDED AGAIN.
love, Eden
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Eden
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Michael Harrison; when you quote other posters, please state who wrote the quote, so that we can attribute it to the right person, for praise or otherwise.
thanks, Eden
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Carol Swenson
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Michael
quote:
That the soul and spirit are parted means that the Spirit of God who indwells the spirit of man, is isolated (sanctified), from the soul. It can almost be seen, it is so distinct. In fact, with the spiritual eye, it can.
The Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, is omniscient. How can He be "isolated" from the soul?
In Jn 19:30 we read: “Jesus gave up his pneuma”(spirit) to the Father, and, in the same Gospel (Jn 10:15), Jesus gave up His “psuchē (soul) for the sheep,” and in Mt 20:28 He gave His psuchē (not His pneuma) as a ransom—a difference which is characteristic. For the pneuma stands in quite a different relation to God from the psuchē. The “spirit” (pneuma) is the outbreathing of God into the creature, the life-principle derived from God. The “soul” (psuchē) is man’s individual possession (the "I"), that which distinguishes one man from another and from inanimate nature . The pneuma of Christ was surrendered to the Father in death; His psuchē was surrendered, His individual life was given, “a ransom for many.” His life “was given for the sheep”
This explains those expressions in the New Testament which bear on the salvation of the soul and its preservation in the regions of the dead. “Thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades” (the world of shades) (Acts 2:27); “Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil” (Rom 2:9); “We are … of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul” (Heb 10:39); “Receive … the implanted word, which is able to save your souls” (Jas 1:21).
The same or similar expressions may be met with in the Old Testament in reference to the soul. Thus in Ps 49:8, the King James Version “The redemption of their soul is precious” and again: “God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol” (Ps 49:15). In the region of the dead, the individuality is retained and, in a measure, separated from God (compare Hag 2:13; Lev 21:11).
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Carol Swenson
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Michael
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
In fact, to say that it not a comment on the physiology would by definition of a metaphor, be incorrect. For as a metaphor it would exactly be a comment on physiology. A more correct term if one wanted to say that it was a comparison to one's behavior, or spiritual understanding would be the word, similie.
Simile A figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with 'like' or 'as').
Hebrews 4:12 (NLT)
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
No 'like' or 'as' in Hebrews 4:12. Not a simile.
Metaphor A figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity.
Hebrews 4:12 is a metaphor. Not only that, but it actually explains itself ...
"It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires."
(P.S. Dictionary.com is a free online dictionary)
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Michael Harrison
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It is a long way down from astride the spirited stallion reared back with hoofs making the air, down to a man's knees where he can receive the Kingdom of God. But no man thinks to look there.
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Michael Harrison
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In fact, to say that it not a comment on the physiology would by definition of a metaphor, be incorrect. For as a metaphor it would exactly be a comment on physiology. A more correct term if one wanted to say that it was a comparison to one's behavior, or spiritual understanding would be the word, similie.
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Michael Harrison
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Placement! That is what this verse is after. Notice that it does not say 'bones and marrow'. The sword is quick and powerful [to the believing] piercing to the dividing asunder [into their respective places] soul, and spirit, JOINTS, and MARROW. I don't know what joints and marrow is an alegory for, but it is about the ordering of the soul and spirit and other functioning parts into the respective places. It is not unlike, "Holding to the head from which... the body is fitly framed together." There is ordering in this. Everybody has their place and function as a believer in the body of Christ. So also does the soul and spirit in the tabernacle of the believer.
That the soul and spirit are parted means that the Spirit of God who indwells the spirit of man, is isolated (sanctified), from the soul. It can almost be seen, it is so distinct. In fact, with the spiritual eye, it can.
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Carol Swenson
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Michael
quote:
The passage is literal!
So, when you read the Bible your bones come apart?
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Michael Harrison
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One will not find anything more doctrinally sound than the separation of soul and spirit. And one will not find it unless one repents of the darkness, and into the glorious light.
quote:
These words develop the metaphor; they are not a commentary on people’s physiological or spiritual makeup .
It is no metaphor. It is literal, spiritually. It is a description of what the word does. It ordains us to proper order, and ordering of the soul and spirit, of the mind and emotions. It exposes evil, and slays the 'old nature', thus revealing the 'new man, created in Christ after righteousness.'
Piddle your lives away in unrepentent darkness. Don't believe. Don't receive. That is how it works!
- Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
But did they hear?
- Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
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Michael Harrison
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The passage is literal! It is a fact that the 'revelation' of who HE is within you, once understood, will separate the spirit and the soul like the parting of the waters when Moses crossed the Red Sea. I will stand by it with 'rock solid' conviction, and will teach it to be so! It is reality. It is testamony. It is the revelation of the word in the inner man.
- Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
All things are revealed to HIM to whom we have to do! That means that your thoughts and intents are 'naked' to Him. You have no thought that HE does not see openly. The fact that the sword is a discerner of the 'thoughts and intents of the heart' is the 'means' by which the separation of the soul and spirit are separated, when one 'repents' of the 'thoughts and intents' which are not of God. Then it will be revealed to him or her what meaneth this, "to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit."
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif) How will thy Kingdom come Lord, for all they rebel? What they hold dear in their heart is not what you ordain. Therefore how will they understand unless they repent? They serve you by 'doing' what they think in their heart. But they realize not 'having', that which you place in them, which will divide asunder their soul and spirit in understanding what the mind of the Spirit is. Their understanding is not your understanding, but rather is carnal. They cling to it. But who do they impress? What do they gain? Let them agree one with another in the dark.
- Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Let the light make manifest! Repent therefore of whatsoever is reproved. Repent unto the light.
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote quote:
Why would scripture say 'separating of'? It is because they must be separated. If they must be separated, they must necessarily be "mingled."
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Michael Harrison, it is not as if the spirit and soul have MERGED into one unit so that they must now be divided from each other.
It is that the FUNCTIONS of the soul and spirit have become mingled, or more accurately, the functions of the spirit are being USURPED by the soul and after thousands of years of the soul ignoring the spirit of man, the soul has NO IDEA what functions properly belong to the spirit and what functions properly belong to the soul.
It is these FUNCTIONS which must be DIVIDED properly and that is what the Word of God does. But it is not as if the spirit and soul have MERGED into one unit; the only thing that is mingled is that the soul has USURPED the functions of the spirit and these functions must now be SEPARATED from the soul and GIVEN BACK to the spirit to whom they properly belong.
love, Eden
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Carol Swenson
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Hebrews 4:12 (NLT)
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
The word of God penetrates through our outer facade and reveals what lies deep inside. The metaphor of a two-edged sword pictures the word of God, like a knife, revealing who we really are on the inside. It discerns what is within us, both good and evil. It penetrates the core of our moral and spiritual lives. This “two-edged sword” pictures the sharp, short sword that the Roman soldiers used in close combat. The sword’s double edges made it ideal for “cut and thrust” warfare. The word of God, sharper than a two-edged sword, pierces even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow. These words develop the metaphor; they are not a commentary on people’s physiological or spiritual makeup . Nothing can be hidden from God; neither can we hide from ourselves if we sincerely study the word of God. It reaches deep past our outer life as a knife passes through skin. It delves deep into our inner lives, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. The word translated “is a discerner” can also be translated “judges” (NIV). At this point, our thoughts, motives, attitudes, and intentions are shown to us as being good or evil; we cannot escape God’s judgment on them and we dare not ignore God’s warning to us. We cannot keep secrets from God.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by TB125:
James A Fowler has a very thorough article on the topic "Towards a Christian Understanding of Man" in which he covers the nature of man's spirit, soul, and body. I encourage anyone who wants a very biblical understanding of this matter to read it. It can be viewed and downloaded here: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/understandman.html
This is a great site TB125! Thank you for posting this.
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Michael Harrison
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I'll never understand where you are coming from wildb. "He who searcheth the hearts knows the 'mind' of the spirit..." refers to the mind of God's spirit, not man's.
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit [of God], because he [The spirit of God] maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Here is where 'rightly dividing' applies.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
The spirit doesn't think. The soul thinks, perceives, and schemes. So it is not amazing that without the providence of God available to us through our spirit, that our soul does it's unbalanced thing, taking up space that belongs to the spirit.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Rom.8
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
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That is all.....
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TB125
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James A Fowler has a very thorough article on the topic "Towards a Christian Understanding of Man" in which he covers the nature of man's spirit, soul, and body. I encourage anyone who wants a very biblical understanding of this matter to read it. It can be viewed and downloaded here: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/understandman.html
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Bob
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Michael Harrison
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So here is the Clear-Eyes commercial. The blood of Jesus is the Clear-Eyes!
And, well! Here you go. The Word of God is who? And what does the passage say the "HE" does? He pierces our heart, dividing the soul and spirit, the word does. How does this happen? Faith! Faith is the solution. Now, actually Christ does the dividing, but the heart must believe what it is instructed to. Without this belief, the two remain mingled. And Jesus is not comfortable within us under these conditions. Because sin is the cause of the intermingling. And Jesus is not sanctified in our heart. He is covered over. So imagine how HE feels being 'covered over'.
That is why HE says to 'repent'. For to repent is to 'turn from unbelief', which brings us to "Believe what our heart is instructed to," that our soul and spirit may be separated into their respective places. This is the ordering of our being that makes us whole. So, what is your heart instructed to believe? Because if you get it wrong in your heart, you do not get the 'right' results.
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Michael Harrison
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So, in case I didn't mention it, here again is the undeniable scripture. "The word of God is quick and powerful, piercing to the separating of soul and spirit."
The spirit doesn't think. The soul thinks, perceives, and schemes. So it is not amazing that without the providence of God available to us through our spirit, that our soul does it's unbalanced thing, taking up space that belongs to the spirit.
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
The soul cannot fill the spirit with stuff. The soul fills its own self with stuff.
You continued
uote:
Should you decide to read, it is possible that you may learn something. The soul fills itself with stuff. But the spirit helpes itself to the soul. The spirit is empty without Christ. It longs to be filled.
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You continued
uote:
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quote:
We do not yearn to fill our spirit. We yearn to fill our soul at the expense of our spirit.
uote:
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The soul fills itself with stuff. But the spirit helpes itself to the soul. The spirit is empty without Christ. It longs to be filled.
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True.
uote:
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So our soul is soaked up by the spirit of man within us.
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quote:
Not true. The soul is having a great time and keeps the spirit of man laying idle. And as long as the soul remainsin charge, the Spirit of God cannot make the spirit of man alive, so the spirit of man is also nearly dead ("a bruised reed shall He not break, nor quench smoking flax").
uote:
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quote:
The soul tries to take the place of what belongs in the spirit.
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Yes.
uote: The soul tries to satisfy our spirit.
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It grows roots deep into our spirit.
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quote:
Absolutely not. The soul is incapable of "growing roots into the spirit", just as my fingernail cannot think, they are two separate instruments with completely diffirent functions. All the soul can do is relinquish its power and listen to his spirit of man again, but not "grow roots deep in the spirit". quote:
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Here again is the undeniable scripture. "The word of God is quick and powerful, piercing to the separating of soul and spirit."
quote:
Well, "the soul thinks it knows better"
End quote!
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
quote:
Yes, that is true. The soul does its best to rule the body by itself but history shows that the soul was and is a miserable failure when it comes to operating the body without the input from the spirit of man and without repentance.
spirit of man>soul>body, that is the hierarchy of God in Adam before Adam sinned. After Adam sinned it was soul>body, and the spirit of man was ignored since "the soul thinks it knows better".
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) The spirit doesn't think. The soul thinks, perceives, and schemes. So it is not amazing that without the providence of God available to us through our spirit, that our soul does it's unbalanced thing.
So, in case I didn't mention it, here again is the undeniable scripture. "The word of God is quick and powerful, piercing to the separating of soul and spirit."
Why would scripture say 'separating of'? It is because they must be separated. If they must be separated, they must necessarily be "mingled." For one does not 'separate' that which is already "separated."
quote:
So in the final analysis yew sed quote:
Absolutely not. The soul is incapable of "growing roots into the spirit", just as my fingernail cannot think, they are two separate instruments with completely diffirent functions. All the soul can do is relinquish its power and listen to his spirit of man again, but not "grow roots deep in the spirit". quote:
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote: quote:
The spirit is comingled with the soul. ... The soul (and Watchman Nee elaborates on this) is overly important before one is in Christ, and is broken.
The soul is not broken, the soul is overactive before it relinquishes its rule to the spirit.
You continued quote:
But first let's revisit the fact that the spirit of man is dead. It is there, but it is absent of the life of Christ. Man, in his sinful condition tries to fill it up with stuff That is where the lusts come from.
The soul cannot fill the spirit with stuff. The soul fills its own self with stuff.
You continued quote:
We yearn to fill our spirit, which is empty, and we cannot stop.
We do not yearn to fill our spirit. We yearn to fill our soul at the expense of our spirit. quote:
But only One (Christ) satisfies. Only One can fill our spirit.
True. quote:
So our soul is soaked up by the spirit of man within us.
Not true. The soul is having a great time and keeps the spirit of man laying idle. And as long as the soul remainsin charge, the Spirit of God cannot make the spirit of man alive, so the spirit of man is also nearly dead ("a bruised reed shall He not break, nor quench smoking flax"). quote:
The soul tries to take the place of what belongs in the spirit.
Yes. quote:
It grows roots deep into our spirit.
Absolutely not. The soul is incapable of "growing roots into the spirit", just as my fingernail cannot think, they are two separate instruments with completely diffirent functions. All the soul can do is relinquish its power and listen to his spirit of man again, but not "grow roots deep in the spirit". quote:
It (the soul) tries to supply what the spirit is missing.
Yes, that is true. The soul does its best to rule the body by itself but history shows that the soul was and is a miserable failure when it comes to operating the body without the input from the spirit of man and without repentance.
spirit of man>soul>body, that is the hierarchy of God in Adam before Adam sinned. After Adam sinned it was soul>body, and the spirit of man was ignored since "the soul thinks it knows better".
Genesis 3
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, You shall not "surely die":
5 For God does know that in the day that you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Watchman 'e-den' said: quote:
But I don't think that the spirit of man dies, nor do I think that the spirit of man mingles with the soul, since they are two separate instruments and there would be no way for these two instruments to merge into each, anymore than the eyes can merge into the nose and still remain functional.
The spirit is comingled with the soul. (I mean, this would make a good "Clear-Eyes," commercial.) The soul (and Watchman Nee elaborates on this) is overly important before one is in Christ, and is broken. But first let's revisit the fact that the spirit of man is dead. It is there, but it is absent of the life of Christ. Man, in his sinful condition tries to fill it up with stuff. That is where the lusts come from. We yearn to fill our spirit, which is empty, and we cannot stop. But only One (Christ) satisfies. Only One can fill our spirit. So our soul is soaked up by the spirit of man within us. The soul tries to take the place of what belongs in the spirit. It grows roots deep into our spirit. It tries to supply what the spirit is missing.
Think of the heart like the Clear-Eyes commercial, where the man puts a drop of solution on the eye, and it "gets the red out." Well, the eye was bloodshot before the solution was applied. Then it is cleared after the application. Our heart is like that! It needs something to clear it up. So, faith does that. Faith is the solution! (That would make a good jingle.)
What is the problem, and what takes place after the solution is applied? The soul and the spirit are intermingled - at the heart. That is the reason the heart looks bloodshot. And our conditon is bad because of this intermingling. But the intermingling is the result of the absense of Christ. The spirit of man is attempting to be filled, and it absorbs the soul which is lustful in an attempt to be so.
This is where lusts come in. The soul lusts to have what it thinks it is missing. It is like a vacuum taking in the world. This is in an attempt to fill the spirit of man with the wrong things. So there is intermingling. It is an improper conditon. It is a very real condition.
If we could see a picture of our heart when in this condition, we would see that it is glazed over. It appears as though it has a film over it. It is not clear and bright. That is because the soul is clouding the spirit. Remember that the heart is the door between the spirit and the soul.
But I said that faith is the solution! That is because faith cleanses the heart. It does not itself do so. It is that the blood is able to cleanse our heart if faith lets it. And when it cleanses our heart, the comingling of the soul and spirit is prevented. For the soul's lusts for evil things is what dirties the heart. But the heart is the shutoff valve that can terminate the soul's lustful ability, and faith in the proper thing is the mechanism by which this happens. When this happens, the soul's roots are removed from growing in the spirit, which longs to be satisfied with whatever it can grab.
Now you see that we have a spirit, wrapped, or contained in a soul, which are separate from each other. And what caused this separation is faith in Christ. So we also see that this is what is meant when we are sanctified. For circumcision of the heart is what sanctifies us to Him. But lust for evil things dirties the heart such that we lose our sanctification unto Him. (We grieve the Spirit.)
BUT YOU AIN'T SED A WORD ABOUT SCRIPTURE!
- Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Well here you go. The Word of God is who? And what does this passage say the "HE" does? He pierces our heart, dividing the soul and spirit. How does this happen? Faith! Faith is the solution. Now, actually Christ does the dividing, but the heart must believe what it is instructed to. Without this belief, the two remain mingled. And Jesus is not comfortable within us under these conditions. Because sin is the cause of the intermingling. And Jesus is not sanctified in our heart. He is covered over. So imagine how HE feels being 'covered over'.
That is why HE says to 'repent'. For to repent is to 'turn from unbelief', which brings us to "Believe what our heart is instructed to," that our soul and spirit may be separated into their respective places. This is the ordering of our being that makes us whole. So, what is your heart instructed to believe? Because if you get it wrong in your heart, you do not get the 'right' results.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Carol Swenson
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posted
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the spirit of man was ignored, and was idle and unemployed, until the time came that soulful man had no consciousness of ever having had a spirit of man, and the man thinks as if he is bipartite: soul and body only, eventhough the spirit is still there, but so idle and unemployed that the spirit is "as dead".
Matthew 8:22 (NLT) 22But Jesus told him, “Follow me now. Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead.”
Ephesians 2:1 (NLT) 1Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
Ephesians 2:4 - 5 (NLT) 4But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Yes, but I said that the spirit and soul intermingled. So did Watch the Nee. So this girl says it the way that I said it, more or less. Now if I can just find that thread again.
But I want to elaborate on how I see just a little differently than she, on a few finer points. For example, she starts out saying that God gave us a body to interact with the world around us. Well, so be it, but the soul does that even more so than the body. But it is late and I will have to come back to it.
I said that HE fills our spirit with His. She says unites with. That is ok. But the condition of the heart determines whether the soul and spirit are divided into their respective places. Well later. And I don't know if I have the name correct, lonestarlimos? Stand by. Or ask questions if you like. I am going to say more about this, even though there is stuff spread out through the threads somewhere.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Michael Harrison, I basically agree with the Topic text.
The main "difference" from what I have said and what the article's author says is that the author says that the spirit and soul got intermingled, while I have said that the soul ignored the spirit and the spirit lay idle and unemployed, to the point that after 5,000 or so years, the soul did not (1) even know that there was a spirit inside; and (2) how to operate the spirit.
The Word of God is spirit and life and the Holy Spirit is spirit and life, and these two quicken the spirit of man by speaking directly to the spirit of man, by bypassing the soul.
By means of the Word of God, and later by the Holy Spirit, the soul functions get separated from the spirit of man functions and the man is restored to his original order.
But I don't think that the spirit of man dies, nor do I think that the spirit of man mingles with the soul, since they are two separate instruments and there would be no way for these two instruments to merge into each, anymore than the eyes can merge into the nose and still remain functional.
I agree in this with Watchman Nee, that the spirit of man was ignored, and was idle and unemployed, until the time came that soulful man had no consciousness of ever having had a spirit of man, and the man thinks as if he is bipartite: soul and body only, eventhough the spirit is still there, but so idle and unemployed that the spirit is "as dead".
love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
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posted
I came across this quite by accident, and thinking of the argument of Eden concerning 'spirit of man, in man' conversations, I thought I'd post this. I would make only a few modifications for it to suit me better, but the viewpoint pretty nearly agrees, if not validates, what I have asserted. It also seems to have a point or two of near agreement with eden."
It seems this person is also concerned about the state of the Church, and therefore published this.
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God gave us a body to interact and be conscious of the world and others around us; He gave us a soul that we might be conscious of ourselves, our own thoughts, emotions and desires; He gave us a spirit so we could communicate and fellowship with God and be conscious of His will. Our spirit is our link to God. When God created man He breathed the breathe of life (the spirit) into man and man became a living soul. Our human spirit came forth from God, but our soul was produced after the spirit entered the body.
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7
Man's soul was not only in communication with his body, it was also in perfect communication with his spirit. Even though Adam's soul was the "meeting point" between his spirit and body, his spirit always remained the ruling power. It controlled his whole body through his soul. Man's spirit was to be the master, the head force over man's soul and, thus, his body.
When sin entered Adam he lost his original union and fellowship with God. His soul became inflated and his spirit suppressed. When Adam chose independence, rather than dependence upon God his spirit died and lost its sensitivity and communication with God. His spirit and soul became co-mingled with his soul becoming the ruling and governing force. As the spirit of man no longer controlled his body, God could no longer communicate with man or rule him internally, and He had to resort to the laws of nature.
When we are born-again God's Spirit unites with our human spirit and it becomes alive and regenerated (Ezekiel 36:26). God's Spirit uses our human spirit like a carrier or a transport to help carry out the process of sanctification and to restore spiritual communication in our lives. The process of sanctification is simply the process of restoring our spirit back to its rightful place, as director of our souls. Until our soul is completely submitted to our spirit, our communication and our walk with the Lord will be hindered.
Our biggest difficulty is that our spirit needs to be untangled from our soul and to break free from its influence and rule. The true spiritual Christian is one in whom the spirit rules and not the soul. Our spirit can only fill us, lead us and guide us, when the sensory part of our soul is weakened, crucified and annihilated. The soul needs to be brought to the death of its own ability. A spiritual Christian is one whom the Spirit is allowed to lead, guide and direct, whereas, a carnal Christian is one who chooses to follow his own will and desires and quenches the Spirit.
All communication with God must occur in our spirit, not in our soul. The reason this is so important is because the enemy has no entrance to our spirit. Our soul and body (the flesh), however, since they are not yet renewed, remain wide open to the enemy. Satan's scheme is to get us to react emotionally to all that is going on in our lives. He does this by stirring up the sensory part of our soul with suffering or hurt or doubt or fear or bitterness or guilt or expectation, or disappointed hope, etc. If he can stir up some fondness for our self and we fall for it, then he's got us. He'll get a foothold in our souls, cause a distraction and stop communication with God's Spirit. The devil can always interfere with fleshy communication, but never with Spiritual communication. He can easily deceive us by giving us visions, counterfeit words, revelations and prophecies, and even at times, physical manifestations. When our spirit is being cleansed and purified through a trial we are vulnerable. If we are operating only on the fleshly level, we will become wide open targets for the enemy's deception.
For the Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
Our soul and spirit together are analogous to our "bones," which consist of joints and marrow. In order to divide our bones they must be broken. God's Word is like His sword and He uses the power of His sword to cut, pierce, and divide our soul and spirit, just like you would divide the joint and marrow of our bones. The deeper God is allowed to go with His sword, the deeper the cross can do its work. He must be allowed to expose even our most private and secrete thoughts and intentions. We must willingly come to the alter and present our bodies a living sacrifice. Then He does the cutting, the separating, and the dividing.
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Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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