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Topic: Were 120 disciples filled at Pentecost or were only the 12 Apostles filled?
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KnowHim
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posted
I agree with you. But one must get to know the Lord Jesus Christ not just about Him.
As for the verse I believe he is telling us to be ready. This is not play time, we should be in the race to win.
The Christian life is not hard if we follow and obey the Lord Jesus Christ. He is there to help us and He gives us peace. But we are to take our Christian walk seriously.
The people that seem to have a problem with the Christian life are those that are not even in the game. They are setting on the bench and have not made a commitment to Jesus Christ. They still are not sure if He is real or not. Some people think life is about them when in reality it is ALL about God not us. When people open their eyes and see this then they get serious about knowing Jesus (God).
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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oneinchrist
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Hey Dave,
Your post quickly reminded me of a recent discussion I had with Eden....looking at a possible distinction between the "earnest of the spirit" and the "manifestations of the spirit". This perhaps could also be paralleled with looking at a distinction between "sealed by the spirit" and "effectual calling of God."
I am led to believe that we need to look at salvation from two ends of a spectrum. We need to be sure we dont make it appear easier than it really is, and we need to make sure that we dont make it appear more difficult than it is. This is a verse that has caused me to believe that we can make it appear more difficult than it is............
Luke 12 vs. 47 And that servant, which knew his Lords will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Is this what Paul means when he states "saved as if by fire?"
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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KnowHim
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A key verse that discusses the filling of the Holy Spirit in this age is John 14:16, where Jesus promised the Spirit would indwell believers and that the indwelling would be permanent. It is important to distinguish the indwelling and filling of the Spirit. The permanent indwelling of the Spirit is not for a select few believers, but rather for all believers. There are a number of references in Scripture that supports this conclusion. The first is that the Holy Spirit is a gift given to all believers in Jesus without exception, and no conditions are placed upon this gift except faith in Christ (John 7:37-39). The second is that the Holy Spirit is given at salvation. Ephesians 1:13 indicates that the Holy Spirit is given at the moment of salvation. Galatians 3:2 also emphasizes this same truth, saying that the sealing and indwelling with the Spirit took place at the time of believing. Third, the Holy Spirit indwells believers permanently. The Holy Spirit is given to believers as a down payment, or verification of their future glorification in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 4:30).
This is in contrast to the filling of the Spirit command found in Ephesians 5:18. We should be so completely yielded to the Holy Spirit that He can possess us fully, and in that sense, fill us. Romans 8:9 and Ephesians 1:13-14 state that He dwells within every believer, but He can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30), and His activity within us can be quenched (1 Thessalonians 5:19). When we allow this to happen, we do not experience the fullness of the Holy Spirit's working and power in and through us. To be filled with the Spirit implies freedom for Him to occupy every part of our lives, guiding and controlling us. His power then can be exerted through us so that what we do is fruitful to God. The filling of the Spirit does not apply to outward acts alone; it also applies to the innermost thoughts and motives of our actions. Psalm 19:14 says, "Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable to you, O Lord my strength, and my redeemer."
Sin is what separates us from the filling of the Holy Spirit, and obedience to God is how the filling of the Spirit is maintained. Although our focus should be to be filled as Ephesians 5:18 commands, praying for the filling of the Holy Spirit is not what accomplishes the filling of the Spirit. Only our obedience to God's commands allows the Spirit freedom to work within us. Because we are sinful creatures, it is impossible to be filled with the Spirit all of the time. We should immediately deal with sin in our lives, and renew our commitment to being Spirit-filled and Spirit-led.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Spirit-filled.html
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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While certain ministries of the Holy Spirit may involve a “feeling,” such as conviction of sin, comfort, and empowerment – Scripture does not instruct us to base our relationship with the Holy Spirit on how or what we feel. Every born-again believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus told us that when the Comforter has come He will be with us and in us. "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" (John 14:16-17). In other words, Jesus is sending one like Himself to be with us and in us.
We know the Holy Spirit is with us because God's Word tells us that it is so. Every born-again believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but not every believer is "controlled" by the Holy Spirit, and there is a distinct difference. When we step out in our flesh, we are not under the control of the Holy Spirit even though we are still indwelt by Him. The Apostle Paul comments on this truth, and he uses an illustration that helps us to understand. "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18). Many people read this verse and interpret it to mean that the Apostle Paul is speaking against wine. However, the context of this passage is the walk and the warfare of the Spirit-filled believer. Therefore, there is something more here than just a warning about drinking too much wine.
When people are drunk with too much wine, they exhibit certain characteristics: they reel, their speech is slurred, and their judgment is impaired. The Apostle Paul sets up a comparison here. Just as there are certain characteristics that allow us to see that someone is controlled by too much wine, there should also be certain characteristics that allow us to see that someone is being controlled by the Holy Spirit. We read in Galatians 5:22-24 about the "fruit" of the Spirit. This is His fruit, and it is exhibited by the born-again believer who walks under the control of the Spirit.
The verb tense in Ephesians 5:18 indicates a continual process of being filled by the Holy Spirit. Since it is an exhortation "be being filled," it follows that it is also possible not to be "filled" or controlled by the Spirit. The rest of Ephesians chapter 5 gives us the characteristics of a Spirit-filled believer. "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God" (Ephesians 5:19-21).
Therefore, the born-again believer should not be controlled by anything other than the Holy Spirit. We are not filled with the Spirit because we "feel" we are, but because this is the privilege and possession we have in Christ. Being filled or controlled by the Spirit is the result of walking in obedience to the LORD. This is a gift of grace and not an emotional feeling. Emotions can and will deceive us, and we can work ourselves up into an emotional frenzy that is purely from the flesh and not of the Holy Spirit. "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit" (Galatians 5:16, 25).
Having said that, we cannot discount that there are times when we can be overwhelmed by the presence and the power of the Spirit, and this is often an emotional experience. When that happens, it is a joy like no other. King David "danced for joy" (2 Samuel 6:14) when they brought up the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem. Experiencing joy by the Spirit is the understanding that as children of God we are being blessed by His grace. So, absolutely, the ministries of the Holy Spirit can involve our feelings and emotions. At the same time, while the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives can include a “feeling,” we are not to base the assurance of our possession of the Holy Spirit on how we feel.
http://www.gotquestions.org/feel-Holy-Spirit.html
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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Carol Swenson said quote:
God often opens His hand by one finger at a time
Uhh...is that, Bible? Chapter and verse, please? eden
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Carol Swenson
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Expositons of Holy Scripture: Old Testament
God often opens His hand by one finger at a time, and leaves us face to face with some plain but difficult duty, without letting us see the helps to its performance, till we need to use them.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol Swenson
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I think that Michael and oneinChrist both make good points. Each of us who has the Holy Spirit in our lives knows how He relates to us personally. We don't need to ask others how He was given or what He does because He is a part of our lives. We can look within for answers. We also don't need to listen to anyone who would tell us that the Holy Spirit does not indwell us because we know He does. And, we don't need to test God, or ask for visible displays of power, because the miracle of salvation is within us. The Kingdom of Heaven is within us. Jesus said that only a faithless generation would ask for signs, and:
John 20:29 (NLT)
29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”
We don't need to see in order to believe.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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oneinchrist
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If we earnestly seek to do the will of God, I trust that Jesus will dispense to us exactly what is needed when it is needed. I think that Michael made a good point. The Holy Spirit is not necessarily going to manifest in ways predictable to us. Are we in the same circumstances as the apostles were when the tongues of fire came?. I contend that the Holy Spirit will manifest in different ways under different sets of circumstances. Pentecost came before great persecutions arose. I believe that Paul gives us proper perspective when he says "Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts". Our obedience to the teachings and commands of Jesus is important when it comes to the work of the Holy Ghost in our lives. If we are disobedient why would we think that Jesus would entrust us with more of Him and His Spirit?
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Do you look for a flame over your head? Should you? Don't dictate to Him. Let Him do His perfect will. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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Hi, Carol Swenson. You said quote:
All Christians receive the Spirit. The Spirit was given each person in the church, as the tongues of fire separating and resting on each person shows.
But you have to admit, don't you, that no tongue of cloven fire sat on you, nor did it on me, and have you been "so filled with the Spirit" that when it happened, people around you "thought you were drunk", right?
Assuming no cloven tongue of fire sat on your head, Carol Swenson, and assuming that "no one had to tell you that you were drunk", then what happens to us mass of believers who do not have those things happen to them?
Are we...just as baptized as they were, and if so, how come there was no tongue of fire and not seeming drunkenness in us?
Carol Swenson, to repeat what you said quote:
All Christians receive the Spirit. The Spirit was given each person in the church, as the tongues of fire separating and resting on each person shows.
Yeah, but how is it given to us?
That's what I'm wondering about...
eden
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Eden,
The Holy Spirit was given to all the believers.
The gift of the Spirit to the church at Pentecost fulfilled Old Testament prophecies concerning the Spirit and Jesus’ promises to give the Spirit to His disciples. What God began in the unique Pentecost event has continued throughout the life of the church. All Christians receive the Spirit. The Spirit was given each person in the church, as the tongues of fire separating and resting on each person shows. The Spirit represented a new commitment of God to the covenant relationship summarized in Lev 26:12.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Eden
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This Topic is dreadfully long, but until this week I had always believed from my own reading and had been taught that all 120 disciples were all filled with the Holy Spirit in the upper room. But...were 120 disciples filled at Pentecost or were only the 12 Apostles filled?
Acts 1
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
eden here: According to v.13, in this upper room lived the Peter and 10 of the Apostles. Matthias had just been elected as the 12th Apostle, but he did not live there yet.
The Bible does not say anywhere that the 120 disciples also lived in that room, and indeed 11 Apostles living in one upper room was probably already crowded. But let's continue:
Acts 1
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
eden here: the ones who continue in prayer with Mary and the brothers of Jesus were the 11 Apostles and the new Apostle Matthias:
Acts 1
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Now let's continue with Acts 1:
Acts 1
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said (the number of names together were about 120),
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
21 Therefore of these men who have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
eden here: The men who had companied with the Apostles most likely refers to the 120 disciples.
Acts 1
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, You, Lord, who knows the hearts of all men, show which of these two You have chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
eden here: So the 120 disciples were apparently assembled, not in the upper room, but that a replacement could be taken from the 120 for Judas Iscariot, and that replacement was the new Apostle Matthias. That was apparently the main reason for mentioning the 120 disciples. But let's continue:
Acts 2
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
eden here: The "they" can still refer to the 12 Apostles only, and does not have include the 120 disciples who companied with them.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
eden here: Again, the 11 Apostles and now Matthias were the ones who lived in that upper room and it seems unlikely that all of a sudden all 120 people plus 12 Apostles were sitting in that upper room.
indeed, the Jews in the next verses said of the men who had been baptized in the Holy Spirit "Aren't these all Galileans", which would seem to refer only to the 12 Apostles, because 11 of the Apostles were all choseon by the Lord in Galilee where Jesus chose the Apostles.
Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Look, are not all these who speak Galilaeans?
8 And how is it that every man hears in our own tongue wherein we were born?
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What does this mean?
13 And others mocked, saying, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and said to them, You men of Judaea, and all you who dwell at Jerusalem, be this known to you, and listen to my words:
15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
22 You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
32This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and they said to Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added to them about 3,000 souls.
eden here: Now this is interesting: did the Holy Spirit come like cloven tongues on the 3,000 after they believed, or has the Spirit come like cloven tongues only so far on the 12 Apostles?
It looks like thus far the Holy Spirit has only fallen on the 12 Apostles thus far, so what, if anything, did the 3,000 receive when they believed?
We know that Cornelius and his friends in Caesarea received the Spirit in the same way as it happened to the 12 Apostles in Jerusalem at Pentecost because Peter later said that as he preeached to Cornelius and his friends:
Acts 11:15
As I began to speak {to Cornelius}, the Holy Spirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Cornelius and his friends were Gentiles so the Spirit falling on the Gentile Cornelius and his friends would have been for the purpose of furthering the gospel of Jesus to the Gentiles.
And later also the Spirit fell on Paul on the road to Damascus and Paul was made or became a supplemental Apostle, a 13th Apostle, who became an Apostle primarily to the Gentiles.
But what did the 3,000 new believers receive. Did the Spirit fall on the 3,000 new believers as it "had on them at the beginning"? It does not appear that way; it would seem that the Bible would have said something about it if that were the case?
So with reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, what does a new believer in Jesus receive and how does the new believer receive it when he or she first believes?
with love, eden
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