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Topic: HAS JESUS 'DONE IT ALL'?
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Carol Swenson
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Eisegesis is the approach to Bible interpretation where the interpreter tries to "force" the Bible to mean something that fits their existing belief or understanding of a particular issue or doctrine. People who interpret the Bible this way are usually not willing to let the Bible speak for itself and let the chips fall where they may. They set off with the up-front goal of trying to prove a point they already believe in, and everything they read and interpret is filtered through that paradigm. Stated another way, they engage in what the Bible refers to as "private interpretation".
In the end, eisegesis is an exercise that in most cases leads to wrong interpretation, and therefore improper applications of those verses in the person's life.
Exegesis is the process of approaching Bible interpretation with a humble spirit, and an open mind. In order to gain a true understanding of God's Word, one must be willing to allow God's Word to speak for itself, and be willing to abandon cherished beliefs if they are in conflict with God's Word.
Exegesis is not merely an intellectual exercise we do all alone. God tells us that in order to properly understand His Word, we need the help of a) the Holy Spirit and b) others who have strong theological training. We are also cautioned to be careful about who we allow to influence us.
On needing the counsel of others:
Where no counsel [is], the people fall but in the multitude of counsellors [there is] safety.
Proverbs 11:14
On being careful about who you allow to teach you:
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy 42-4
It is vital that we approach Bible interpretation with humility. Much of God's truth and wisdom are in sharp contrast with today's political correctness and tolerance movements. When practicing true exegesis, be prepared to be viewed as foolish by an ignorant world that has placed its confidence in fallible human knowledge instead of the infallible knowledge of our all-knowing God and Creator.
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Sorry Eden, I overlooked your question.
I don’t think that there is a bible verse containing these words. Basically they are theological terms. The two words are closely linked, one positive one negative. (You could "Google" these words and see what you come up with.)
Honest people usually want to let the bible interpret itself. The problem is when a person decides to adhere to a certain doctrine. Once they do this they sometimes become trapped. In order to remain in the doctrine they find that the bible must be twisted to fit the doctrine. One other thing- The doctrine could actually be sound and the problem could be entirely with the person.
I hope this helps,
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yahsway
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Amen David, my point exactly! The enemy sowing the tares among the wheat is using men and women like Joel Olsteen to do his sowing.
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Eden
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fastforward, which Bible verse are you and Michael Harrison discussing that refers to this quote:
"Michael, I did not misspell. The word is “Eisegesis” not “Exegesis”, the word you used. The two words are in fact opposite. The enemy uses “Eisgesis” and “Exegesis” interchangeably in order to confuse the flock.
fastforward, in which verse does your word appear, please? Thank you, eden
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
This shattered her. She does not attend anywhere now, BUT, she just LOVES Joel Olsteen. She says Thats her pastor. I asked her why him? She said because he has the truth, she believes she can go on living as a Lesbian according to Joel Olsteen. Okay, I never have heard him say you could, but theres something in his message that really attracts the Gay and Lesbian community.
The only thing I can think of is that he preaches that clabbered milk and it appeals to the Carnally Minded. Appeals to their flesh and to their psychy. You can have God and have it your way to! But can man serve two masters?
Joel Olsteen does not preach Jesus. He preaches self. I am sure she likes him as he teaches another gospel. One that tickles ears.
http://www.jesusclips.com/view_video.php?viewkey=40f0c74a814ec9237b6e
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Michael,
I see what you are saying and I do take note of it. Thank you for being so kind.
fastForward
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And praise the Lord to you, David Campbell.
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Michael Harrison
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Thanks for your patience fastforward, and the education. I was unaware of the word.
So, to answer the question that you asked Carol, you will have to answer that for yourself. No one can answer it for you. They can however, offer, admonish or exhort. If you think that you add anything to the finished work, well, there is a scripture or two for you.
The Lord be praised!
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by fastforward:
Has Jesus done it all?
Yes Jesus did it all. No one else could. That is why God send His Son because he was the only one that could do it it ALL.
Praise to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!
LOOKING UNTO JESUS
CRUCIFIED, to find in His shed blood our ransom, our pardon, our peace.
LOOKING UNTO JESUS
GLORIFIED, to find in Him our Heavenly Advocate completing by His intercession the work inspired by His lovingkindness for our salvation (1John 2:1); Who even now is appearing for us before the face of God (Heb. 9:24), the kingly Priest, the spotless Victim, continually bearing the iniquity of our holy things (Ex. 28:38).
LOOKING UNTO JESUS
THE AUTHOR AND THE FINISHER OF OUR FAITH: that is to say, He Who is its pattern and its source, even as He is its object; and Who from the first step even to the last marches at the head of the believers; so that by Him our faith may be inspired, encouraged, sustained, and led on to its supreme consummation.
David Campbell
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Carol,
I don’t even know becauseHeLives. We are discussing a certain topic and I was answering some of the open ended questions. There is still one question left. Maybe you would like to answer that one? Here it is-
Has Jesus done it all?
fastForward
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Carol Swenson
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fastforward
If you are insinuating something negative about becauseHElives, then you are WAY WRONG!
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Michael,
I did not misspell. The word is “Eisegesis” not “Exegesis”, the word you used. The two words are in fact opposite. The enemy uses “Eisgesis” and “Exegesis” interchangeably in order to confuse the flock. I will give you an example-
“Is the true bride vitally involved in blood covenant matters or is she just an uninvolved purchased concubine?”
It is insinuated in this question that Jesus is nothing more than a heathen king with multiple wives.
Do you see it Michael?
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Michael Harrison
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Who says that exegesis is bad fruit? If exegesis is revelation of who He is, it is good fruit. Exegesis is simply reading into the text what God has put there. You have to dig to find the gold. You have to dive to find the pearl. You have to read between the lines to see His face. It follows the logic of the parables. You have to know Him in order to discover the meaning! That is how exegesis works.
Smile, Jesus loves you. ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
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There are all kinds of fruit, for instance-
In Eden there was this tree…but that is another lesson.
Here we are dealing with the fruit “Eisegesis”. A very nasty fruit indeed.
For those who don’t recognize the term it is short for “antichrist”.
In other words the speaker or writer puts the meaning into the scripture instead of letting the scripture do it.
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becauseHElives
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Romans 11:
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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becauseHElives
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Eden ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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Hi, becauseHElives, I think you will enjoy this one. I heard this scripture last night:
John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in Me that bears not fruit He takes away ...
Note that Jesus is speaking of "a branch which is IN ME", in other words, a Christian, but if it bears no fruit, then what happens?
John 15
2 Every branch in Me that bears not fruit He takes away.
Whoa! A branch in Me He takes away when it bears no fruit? That's a good scripture for the scriptural argument that salvation can be taken away from us "if we do nothing in the family of God to help Our Father in the furtherance of His Kingdom". That's all God the Father asks of His sons and daughters: "Help Me."
with love, eden
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BecauseHeLives,
The Church has a powerful advocate. It also has an accuser.
You ask several important questions that should be answered-
1) Is the true bride vitally involved in blood covenant matters or is she just an uninvolved purchased concubine? This question is a lightly veiled accusation because you know that the true bride is not an illegitimate.
2) Is our salvation just a contract? Yes. Specifically a marriage contract.
3) Or is it a blood covenant? If we are covered by His blood then the accuser cannot touch us. But no amount of law and rule following will in any way save us whatsoever.
4) Is it just an amnesty deal, - A ticket to heaven or is it a two way blood covenant commitment unto death? The Way leads to life everlasting, not death.
Questions five and six could easily be answered by a few hypocrites. Do you know any?
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Michael Harrison
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Working out our salvation with fear and trembling is pretty simple! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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waynemlj
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.
IS SHE A TRUE BRIDE, VITALLY INVOLVED IN BLOOD COVENANT MATTERS?
OR IS SHE JUST AN UNINVOLVED PURCHASED CONCUBINE?
As Christians of the western world we are generally contented in our faith.
Many of us have become satisfied with what we have been told.
And the gist of that message we receive and live by is very often this.
"Jesus has done it all".
This statement is somewhat ambiguous. And what often follows is this.
"He did it all". ----> "Therefore there is no call on me to do anything in response."
IN OUR WESTERN CHURCH WE SELL CHEAP GRACE.
AND WE SEE A PASSIVE UNINVOLVED LUKEWARM CHURCH.
IS OUR SALVATION JUST A CONTRACT?
OR IS IT A BLOOD COVENANT?
IS IT JUST AN AMNESTY DEAL, - A 'TICKET TO HEAVEN'?
OR IS IT A TWO-WAY BLOOD COVENANT COMMITMENT UNTO DEATH?
ARE THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' REALLY SINCERE ABOUT THIS?
JUST HOW COMMITTED IS THE WESTERN CHURCH IN THESE CRITICAL COVENANT MATTERS?
please read article @...
http://www.endtimepilgrim.org/bloodcove.htm
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Hi becauseHelives,
You sure asked a lot of big questions in this one Post. I don't know which ones concern you the most. I get the feeling that, even in your questions, you are making statements questioning a lot of false teachings that you see going on in the churches, and you're sure right about that!
It is so important that we don't get pulled aside into "every wind of doctrine." Ephesians 4:11-14, "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors, and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."
I hope you don't mind reading such a long quote, but I thought that it contained the elements of everything you were saying in your Post.
Yes, we are the blood-bought Bride of Christ to be revealed at His appearing with the same glory that Christ has.
Our salvation IS a contract . . . an eternal covenant in the blood of Jesus as He said in His last Passover Meal before His crucifixion.
Are all Christians sincerely committed to Him, you ask? Sadly, NO! Many, I think, just add Him as "another charm to their bracelet" if you know what I mean.
But you and I as brothers in Christ on this Message Board, don't have to concern ourselves with all of that, just continue in the wonderful faith God has blessed us with in His Word. And be willing to continue to share our thoughts back and forth with each other as we learn more and more . . . "from faith to faith."
"Jesus has done it all," you said. Yes, in terms of procuring our forgiveness and transferring His Righteousness to us, but Paul also admonishes us "to work out our salvation with fear and trembling."
James challenges us to produce good works from the saving faith we have been given.
We need to be reading the Bible and studying it and searching it daily!
And we'll gradually be brought into conformity with the image of God's dear Son as He says in Romans 8:29, "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."
waynemlj
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Michael Harrison
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Probably it is because Joel is so nice, and positive. He seems to exude acceptance, whereas someone like John Hagee is harsh and reproving.
But one comment if i may. When I was saved, i used to read the passages that included the word carnal, as applying towards the unsaved, which is accurate. However, the meaning of the scriptures is layered. When Paul talks about carnality, he is referring to Christians who are unelightened about life in the Spirit. It is hard for them to come to understanding, even though the Spirit is in them. What passes to them as 'deeper knowledge' is actually carnal wisdom.
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yahsway
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i looked up this word Carnal in my Nelsons Bible Dictionary-
Carnal- Sensual, worldly, non-spiritual; relating to or given to the crude desires and appetites of the Flesh or body. The Apostle Paul contrasts "spiritual people"- that is, those who are under the control of the Holy Spirit, with those who are "carnal"-those under the control of the flesh (1 Cor 3:1-4 Rom 8:5-7) The word carnal is usually reserved in the NT to describe worldly Christians.
Now look at Romans 8 5-8
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be Carnally minded is Death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the Carnal mind IS Enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
So then, those who are in the Flesh Cannot please God.
Look at verse 17 and if childre, then heirs heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, IF indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
This is whats Missing in the Western Church. Scripture often indicates that God leads His children thru suffering before they reach His glory. You know, denying yourself, picking up your cross, ect..
But this is not what is preached today in the Western Church. The proclomation today is ones monetary prosperity, self-esteem, big car, expensive house, $20,000 marble toilets ect...
There Western Church is feeding on "Clabbered milk" And the sad thing about it is the ones feeding them that sour milk are getting fat and rich all in the name of God.
This country has MANY "Carnal Christians" sad to say.
Let me just give an example from my own backyard.
Many of you know i work in the healthcare field.
There is one nurse I work with, a professing Lesbian, who claims she got saved in 1997 and then left her church when the married pastor of that assembly was caught having an affair with one of the members of the assembly.
This shattered her. She does not attend anywhere now, BUT, she just LOVES Joel Olsteen. She says Thats her pastor. I asked her why him? She said because he has the truth, she believes she can go on living as a Lesbian according to Joel Olsteen. Okay, I never have heard him say you could, but theres something in his message that really attracts the Gay and Lesbian community.
The only thing I can think of is that he preaches that clabbered milk and it appeals to the Carnally Minded. Appeals to their flesh and to their psychy. You can have God and have it your way to! But can man serve two masters?
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Eden
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hi, becauseHElives, I understand the importance of exhortation to move on into the deeper things of the Lord, but the fact is, for some reason which I still do not understand, many carnal Christians do not move much beyond the basics of accepting the exchanged life of Jesus for salvation.
May I ask therefore. Is there anywhere in 1 Corinthians where Paul especially talks to and about carnal Christians, is there ever a reference in 1 Corinthians that the carnal Christians are kicked out of the church if they stay carnal Christians until they die? Paul always continues to call them "brethren", doesn't he?
Isn't all this about "sanctification" and not about "salvation" which is a free gift but sanctification rewards are earned?
1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The only part in the New Testament that I know about where a carnal "do-nothing-but-hold-on-to-what-he's-got" Christian may lose even his salvation is in the parable of the talent where a person hid his talent in the ground (which presumably is his talent of salvation and access to the Holy Spirit) and because that person did nothing, even what he had is taken away and he is appointed a place with the hypocrites:
Matthew 13:12
For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has.
So becauseHElives, exhorting unto perfection in Christ is one thing, but whether the free gift of salvation is retained, or not, I'm still not sure about:
Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That does not involve much, does it, "call...and is saved".
love, eden
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oneinchrist
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Hi becauseHElives,
All I can say is that it appears that we have some of the same strong convictions when we look at the world.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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becauseHElives
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THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.
IS SHE A TRUE BRIDE, VITALLY INVOLVED IN BLOOD COVENANT MATTERS?
OR IS SHE JUST AN UNINVOLVED PURCHASED CONCUBINE?
As Christians of the western world we are generally contented in our faith.
Many of us have become satisfied with what we have been told.
And the gist of that message we receive and live by is very often this.
"Jesus has done it all".
This statement is somewhat ambiguous. And what often follows is this.
"He did it all". ----> "Therefore there is no call on me to do anything in response."
IN OUR WESTERN CHURCH WE SELL CHEAP GRACE.
AND WE SEE A PASSIVE UNINVOLVED LUKEWARM CHURCH.
IS OUR SALVATION JUST A CONTRACT?
OR IS IT A BLOOD COVENANT?
IS IT JUST AN AMNESTY DEAL, - A 'TICKET TO HEAVEN'?
OR IS IT A TWO-WAY BLOOD COVENANT COMMITMENT UNTO DEATH?
ARE THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES THE 'BRIDE OF CHRIST' REALLY SINCERE ABOUT THIS?
JUST HOW COMMITTED IS THE WESTERN CHURCH IN THESE CRITICAL COVENANT MATTERS?
please read article @...
http://www.endtimepilgrim.org/bloodcove.htm
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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