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Topic: Is this a medical question
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Isaiah
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Was that sarcasm? ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif) Anyway -I hope Christ returns before those nanobots get loose and start munching on my brain cells. ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
Sorry -don't mean to be rude -just couldn't resist.
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waynemlj
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Pretty cool! You know, sometime after i came to the Lord, i quit reading science fiction; otherwise i might have come across this author. I still dig a sci-fi movie, but cannot bear to read fiction any more (Shrug). For this reason, i haven't even been able to bring myself to read C.S. Lewis. I don't know what i am missing there?
Anyway, reading your statement, I thought of the movies that are on TV and in the cinema about genetically diverse people with exceptional powers. I wonder where movies drew their inspiration from? I do believe that some of the far fetched stuff that we are seeing on tv is foreshadowing upcoming real events. The real events will not look exactly like the Hollywood versions though. Yet some of this end-of-the-world stuff may resemble it. In fact it is like a omen maybe, to a world that should take it seriously, and be prepared - like, accept Christ!
And thinking about it, i believe that the 911 terrrorist drew their inspiration from American movies.
Hi Michael,
By all means read everything of C.S. Lewis that you can get your hands on. Start with "Mere Christianity" and proceed to his other wonderful theological works, and then go to "The Chronicles of Narnia," and then to "That Hideous Strength" and then to his science fiction works.
He is one of the great theologians every believe should read!
waynemlj
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scythewieldor
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Dear friends,
If you want to see a possible player in this area, Google "brain nanobots".
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Isaiah
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Round about the time of the tower of Babel, man had become "one" -so to speak -they had one language, and were united in the purpose of building a city and a tower that reached up to heaven, and making a name for themselves lest they be scattered abroad. God knew it was time to slow things down considerably, because men were so united that ANYTHING was becoming possible to them that they imagined to do.
(Gen 11:4-7 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.)
God knew that without his spirit man would travel to destruction very quickly, if allowed to do so. This is not speculation -it is just what happens without God's righteousness. God also had a plan to work out -which required a certain amount of time.
My point is that man -though limited by physicality -can do ANYTHING as long as they have an interface which allows them to manipulate any thing without harm to themselves, and have the knowledge to do so, etc....
but God has the last word.
No being can deny the will of God. He is wiser than to allow a circumstance wherein a being could deny that his will be done -this includes immortality or a somewhat lesser state of being impervious to certain things which would otherwise cause death. We have such things as radiation suits, cold suits, etc...which essentially cheat death -but, in reality, they do not add or subtract one day from our lifespan.
The soul that sinneth, it shall die -this cannot be avoided -except by obeying God and accepting Christ's sacrifice. Generally speaking, it is appointed for men to die once -then the judgment. After some men lived comparatively longer lives, God limited man's days to 120 -we can not live longer than that (Gen 6:3). It is true that the general lifespan of mankind has increased over recent years with better knowledge and medicines, but we are nowhere near making men able to fall upon a sword and not be wounded(Joel 2) -this is not speaking of armor or medicine -not to mention the fact that hand to hand combat with swords is rather outdated -we have weapons such that the only CERTAIN defense against them must be supernatural. Our physical and biological/physiological defenses are nowhere near perfect. As for men desiring to die and death fleeing from them -we can guard against one thing or another -but a man SEEKING death isn't going to don any armor or willingly take a vaccination -and even if given without permission, if a man truly WANTS to die -SEEKS death -they are able. Something will work -except if supernaturally denied.
This has happened before -though these did not desire to die. Daniel in the loin's den -his friends in the furnace, etc..... but this is nothing they had done. God allowed it. Because they were sincere in serving him? Certainly -but this is not always the case.
When Nebuchadnezzar was sentenced to so many years living as a beast, any number of things might have happened -but God saw him through those days -and longer.
As for speculation and focus -It is not my focus and not speculation. We will get what it says by who it says -and unlike (from our perspective) uncertain references to stars, these things are now happening -and quite specific. We can know what will be -God declared it so we could. What is now happening, I heard beforehand -quite specifically...and once certain things are known, we can know what will be -with certainty. As for missing something...that would be great -Ecc 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow -not saying I am wise, but knowing these things will take place is not comforting (though knowing God is in control and will make all things new is comforting) -but the same old rotten thing in a fresh new wrapper isn't going to sway me at this point, and God put the parallels in place to be recognized.
It doesn't sway God, either. We either satisfy those errors for which he has determined destruction (such as Isaiah 10)-or we face such.
Apart from some turning from errant ways due to knowledge of what will be -which helps satisfy the above -which is our only hope -there is little new under the sun. Even then, some pretend to turn, to make those who have stumble.
Fight fire with fire -but evil with good.
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Michael Harrison
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But Isaiah, your emphasis on the Nazi's is understandable, or anyone's for that matter. However, i wonder if when you look at what has gone before, and you model after it, whether you might miss something that will be the same but different. You might look for one thing and get another. I wish i knew the exact quote that someone said, "The only thing sure about prophecy is that we recognize it clearly in hind sight."
I have always thought of people who couldn't die when i read these parts of scripture, about them seeking death but not finding it. I don't know why, but it stands out in my thinking that there will be some healthy people who rebound, if afflicted, who will be more tormented because medicine tried to cheat God, like stunt people cheat death. They will live to face the evil of the day, rather than escape by dying. But it is neither here, nor there. It is just what i have always thought. Since what i have heard about the future from dime-store, paperback predictors (sorry to be so hard on my brethren) contains at least some speculation, i do not feel out of place speculating this myself.
I know this! Revelations talks about the Kings of the East marching on the Valley of Megiddo. One of the clearest illustrations of the hour we are in is the waking of the sleeping dragon. That would be China, whom we are making into a great nation right now. I have always heard it said that you could march them in a column four wide, and take them out as they came across the hill, but the line would never end, they replenish so quickly. That is a lot of people; and they are waiting for the year of the Dragon. That is where they show themselves as a dominant force in the earth. (Uhm, Chinese girls -))
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Isaiah
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France and England may be into wierd research, but Britain isn't going to be in a position to antagonize anyone. Europe pretty much tells them what to do and when to do it -(and even wanted control of Britain's nukes) -which does not sit well with the people of Britain. France's best buddy is Germany in some ways -and Germany pretty much tells Europe what to do. We are aware of the wierdness the Germans got up to in WWII -but I wouldn't be expecting any supersoldiers who can't be killed .....not saying they won't try -anything for an edge.
"The good which was in Nazism still lives in the German heart," Ellersiek said. His party offered "a new revolution for Germany which will set the pattern for Europe". This revolution is to be the work of the new elite, the German prototype of the future rulers of Europe . . . which has emerged purified from Nazism and the trials of war." (Daily Telegraph 15/2/01)
From...
http://www.kc3.co.uk/~dt/eu_army.htm
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Michael Harrison
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In speculation, I consider that someone will rule from space, in starwars fashion (and it will not be US). The ability strike from space seems to me to be the only way to subdue the nations of the world. So whoever secretly gets a starwars machine in place will have the ability to stop the resistance of any military aparatus here below.
FWIW, the stars that fall from Heaven, as per Revelation, what are they?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Isaiah
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wow
The point is that there will be no escaping the wrath of God - this applies ONLY to those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads(Deu 6:6-8 And THESE WORDS, WHICH I COMMAND THEE this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and THEY SHALL BE as frontlets BETWEEN THINE EYES....Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.)
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
They will SEEK death -DESIRE to die -but God will not allow them to kill themselves -this is suicide denied.
As for the method -some believe the things described are war machines such as helicopters dispersing chemical and biological weapons -others, perhaps, that they are actual wierd insects...the point is...have the seal of God in your forehead...keep his commandments -not the commandments of men -and have God's spirit in you.
P.S.........
Joel 2 speaks of GOD'S ARMY -they are angels -not men -TOTALLY different subject!
The return of Christ is not quite the 'harps and halos' event many have made it out to be!
Understand that MEN WILL ATTEMPT TO MAKE WAR WITH HIM -and he will DESTROY THEM!
God will have gathered the armies of the earth (which remain) to Megiddo and against Jerusalem (Rev 16:14-16, Zec 14:2).....Christ will then return -they will move to destroy him and he will destroy them.
Make no mistake -this means ARMIES.....[G4753
στράτευμα strateumastrat'-yoo-mah From G4754; an armament, that is, (by implication) a body of troops (more or less extensive or systematic): - army, soldier, man of war.]
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 17:12-14 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb...
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Joe 2:10-11 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Zec 14:3-4 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives....
This battle is often called Armageddon -but that is only the name of the valley (Megiddo) where the armies of the earth are gathered before they turn to make war with the returning Christ. How they get there is a whole 'nother post.
http://www.rumormillnews.com/images/megiddo.jpg
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Michael Harrison
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Yea! That's cool and all. Actually, i will have to read, and reread to assimilate the discussion you two were having. But for me, what stands out is the fact that people will not be able to die, praying for the hills to fall on them! It means something, and we know that the time of Jacob's troubles will not be anything such as we have ever seen. Considering the killing fields of Pol Pot, the work of the nazi's, the Communist massacres of people in Russia, it is seriously scary to consider what it will be like in a few years if it will be worse than anything that has gone before.
"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work." (Joh 9:4)
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scythewieldor
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Dear Michael,
What I said about the Assyrian is that I had not made a connection between Assyria and Germany. The fact is, in one post, I replied to Kindgo that we may have stopped cutting and pasting from Isaiah 14 (where there is a reference to the Assyrian) before we reached the identity of the eighth beast.
The Assyrian king WAS a king the realm of whom included Babylonia. Therefore, he could be the eighth king. However, as such, he would, still, be, by title, The King of Babylon.
However, the connection of the Assyrian that thechristianbbs.com poster, Isaiah, made to Ezekiel 17 was not something I could swallow.
The identities, there, were very clearly declared to be the king of Judah and the king of Babylon. The covenant that was established at that time may have made Judah the husband of Babylon, in a sense, because Malachi said that Judah had married the daughter of a strange god.
Our poster friend, Isaiah, asserts that the Assyrian will be from, or supported, by Germany or the EU.
That's as good a guess as any. The Germany/EU scenario is agreeable with my guess that the leopard part of the beast was the left-overs of the German tribes that took over Europe after the Western Roman Empire fell leaving the other half of the bear (Byzantium/Eastern Roman Empire) the side of the bear that was raised up.
The Eastern Roman Empire, before it fell in the late 15th Century AD, included Russia.
There's your bear feet.
The lion portion of that beast (the mouth), believe it or not, could be Judah. The eagles wings upon that beast in Daniel remind this reader of the eagles' wings which God gave to Israel.
quote:
Ex 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles <05404>‘ wings, and brought you unto myself.
This is the first place that this word appears in scripture which makes it, to some, the the most relevant scripture for defining prophetic symbols.
I shouldn't have to remind you of the connection of the symbol of the lion to Judah.
With that as the Biblical justification for this interpretation, I present historical justification in the fact that, after the return of Judah from Babylonian captivity, the Maccabees were successful in establishing a Kingdom of Judah over which Herod was king when Jesus was born.
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Mt 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mt 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
However, at some point during the Babylonian captivity, Jehoiachin became high royalty in Babylon.
quote:
2 Kings 25:27 And it came to pass in the seven and thirtieth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the twelfth month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, that Evilmerodach king of Babylon in the year that he began to reign did lift up the head of Jehoiachin king of Judah out of prison;
28 And he spake kindly to him, and set his throne above the throne of the kings that were with him in Babylon;
29 And changed his prison garments: and he did eat bread continually before him all the days of his life.
30 And his allowance was a continual allowance given him of the king, a daily rate for every day, all the days of his life.
Jer 52:31 And it came to pass in the seven and thirtieth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the twelfth month, in the five and twentieth day of the month, that Evilmerodach king of Babylon in the first year of his reign lifted up the head of Jehoiachin king of Judah, and brought him forth out of prison,
32 And spake kindly unto him, and set his throne above the throne of the kings that were with him in Babylon,
33 And changed his prison garments: and he did continually eat bread before him all the days of his life.
34 And for his diet, there was a continual diet given him of the king of Babylon, every day a portion until the day of his death, all the days of his life.
When the Jews lost their temple and city in 70AD, they removed the center of their nation to Babylon from which the exilarch, a direct descendant of Jehoiachin, according to the Jews, ruled until, almost, 1100 AD.
So, a false prophet from the Jewish leftovers might hookup with an Assyrian (if the Germans really are their descndants) and my model is not threatened a bit.
I, still don't know why those people can't die, though. Oh well.
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Michael Harrison
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Pretty cool! You know, sometime after i came to the Lord, i quit reading science fiction; otherwise i might have come across this author. I still dig a sci-fi movie, but cannot bear to read fiction any more (Shrug). For this reason, i haven't even been able to bring myself to read C.S. Lewis. I don't know what i am missing there?
Anyway, reading your statement, I thought of the movies that are on TV and in the cinema about genetically diverse people with exceptional powers. I wonder where movies drew their inspiration from? I do believe that some of the far fetched stuff that we are seeing on tv is foreshadowing upcoming real events. The real events will not look exactly like the Hollywood versions though. Yet some of this end-of-the-world stuff may resemble it. In fact it is like a omen maybe, to a world that should take it seriously, and be prepared - like, accept Christ!
And thinking about it, i believe that the 911 terrrorist drew their inspiration from American movies.
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lonlesol
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Hello Michael...
What you said about cloning made me remember of a book that I still have at home called ''The God Project'' written by John Saul...A few years ago, I got rid of all my horror and science-fiction books that I had, except for this one...
This book is pure science-fiction of course but how much fiction is there really in that book?...
I googled John Saul's name and found this webpage, giving a small explanation on the subject of the book which says:
***Something is happening to the children of Eastbury, Massachusetts. Something that causes healthy babies to turn cold in their cribs. Something that strikes at the heart of every parent's darkest fears. Something is taking the children one by one. Now, an entire town waits on the edge of panic for the next nightmare. there must be a reason for the terror. they all know it. But no one ever suspected...
John Saul was born in California on February 25th 1942, he graduated from high school in 1959 and spent several years studying various subjects (anthropology, liberal arts, theatre) in numerous colleges without ever gaining a degree. It took over fifteen years before Saul had written anything the publishers deemed worthy but his debut novel "Suffer The Children" was an overnight success in 1976. He has subsequently written over thirty novels and all of them have become worldwide bestsellers. He is an accomplished and critically acclaimed horror novelist dealing primarily with psychological terror rather than gore yet despite his numerous accolades surprisingly few people have heard of him.
All Fall Down was originally published in the United States under the title "The God Project" in 1982. It is a compelling tale of conspiracy and fear that will have your brain ticking long after you've turned the last page. "A terrifying story that weaves medical fact with ingenious scientific speculation. John Saul has created his most compelling, most terrifying and most chilling psychological thriler yet."
Sally and Steve Montgomery are a happily married couple with two children. Jason is an eight year old who has never had a days illness in his life and their daughter Julie was perfectly healthy until at six months old she died in the night. The dodctor's only explanation is S.I.D.S (sudden infant death syndrome). After researching S.I.D.S, Sally refuses to believe that her healthy baby girl "just died" and sets out to discover the truth.
Lucy Corliss is the divorced mother of Randy (Jason Montgomery's best friend and another unusually healthy child). One day Randy is badly burned and while Lucy calls for an ambulance she returns to see that his burns have healed completely within minutes. Shortly afterwards Randy mysteriously disappears.
Sally discovers that many families in Eastbury have lost children, they've either died or disappeared and as the families come together a terrifying conspiracy begins to emerge. All the children were being secretly studied by a mysterious group called CHILD and the study began at conception. All the mothers had become pregnant accidentally whilst fitted with an IUD and all IUD's had been fitted by Dr Wiseman, Eastbury's consultant gynaecologist. Subsequently all children had either died or gone missing. All the evidence points to Dr Wiseman but the reasons behind the experiment are more terrifying than one could imagine.
All Fall Down deals with DNA and genetic manipulation, something we're all familiar with today but in 1982 John Saul was far ahead of his time. Whilst the subject matter is both delicate and disturbing, All Fall Down will have you riveted until its surprise ending. With John Saul nothing is ever as it seems. With DNA and genetics being something we all hear about on a regular basis you can't help but be scared by this utterly compelling and thought provoking novel.
All Fall Down has a limited availabilty but can sometimes be purchased on Amazon.co.uk for around £2. I bought mine for the bargain price of £1.50 in a second hand book store! I've read almost all of his early novels and in my opinion they're not your average horror story. John Saul picks topics that are always thought provoking and whilst they are fictional you can't help but feel that what you've just read could quite easily happen and some of his novels leave you feeling slightly disturbed! His works include Hellfire, Punish The Sinners, Nathaniel and Darkness. He has often been compared to Stephen King but his stories are less complicated and much shorter, on average 340 pages but in those three hundred and odd pages he succeeds in bringing characters to life and fiction to a possible reality.
I enjoyed All Fall Down quite simply because of its thought provoking story, lifelike characters and the fact that I couldn't stop thinking about what I'd read long after putting the book down. I've read the book a number of times and still find myself on the edge of my seat and reading in disbelief about the conspiracy as I turn the pages!
***
The story is about a doctor that found a way to produce children with powers that no human beings have, to be used for the benefit of the army...they are, at the end of the story, undestructable, able to heal themselves in a matter of minutes which of course is impossible...the parents of the last two alive boys in that story tried to kill them but weren't able to...
quote:
I think that there will be a new group of antagonists. Here is something to consider: England and France are heavy into genetic engineering right now. Someone could be experimenting without public knowledge, perhaps. But to stay on point, the effects of genetic engineering could lead to the cloning, and multiplying of 'a superior' race, unto some purpose yet unseen. These clones could also be genetically retrofitted to be even more superior humans. As such, they might be unquenchable. It may even read like a sci-fi! They might be able to survive severe injury, and be resistant to disease. Moreover, these could possibly be capable of working the miracles spoken of by scripture, therefore becoming recognized as the 'Lo here, or lo there, go not after them' antichrists.
The author of this book might not be too far from what may eventually become reality on this earth?... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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Well, we all seek to understand the 'mysterious' things concerning the future of the church, and of the world. We oftentimes come to conclusions that seem informed. Take for example what Isaiah states about the rise of the Assyrians. His statement reads rather well, i think, concerning whom scripture seems to indicate them to be. Scythweiler dissagrees. I think that it is an interesting discussion.
I think that there will be a new group of antagonists. Here is something to consider: England and France are heavy into genetic engineering right now. Someone could be experimenting without public knowledge, perhaps. But to stay on point, the effects of genetic engineering could lead to the cloning, and multiplying of 'a superior' race, unto some purpose yet unseen. These clones could also be genetically retrofitted to be even more superior humans. As such, they might be unquenchable. It may even read like a sci-fi! They might be able to survive severe injury, and be resistant to disease. Moreover, these could possibly be capable of working the miracles spoken of by scripture, therefore becoming recognized as the 'Lo here, or lo there, go not after them' antichrists.
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scythewieldor
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Dear Michael and Carol,
We have so much, yet, to discover.
This is a Fifth Trumpet/First Woe event. However, back at the opening of the Sixth Seal, we read this:
quote:
Re 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
There are parts of this seal event that remind us of Joel. In that prophecy, we read of soldiers who get up after having fallen by the sword. It may be that some refreshing of memory and meditation on the things of Joel are in order.
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Michael...
Death began with Satan in Eden, and these creatures are demonic. They were told not to kill people but to torture them for five months. This plague is to torment unbelievers, so not allowing them to die is part of their torment. Even though they work for Satan, God is making them do His will instead. Remember, Jesus holds the keys to death and hades. There are people who believe that many will come to believe in God and turn to Christ during the tribulation because of these miracles. When they see that those who have the seal of God on their foreheads are not bothered by these wierd and horrible creatures, it will help them to accept the truth. I guess these are very stubborn people, but God still loves them and wants them to come to Him.
The Believer’s Study Bible
Revelation 9
9:1 “Fallen” is in the perfect tense, which in Greek emphasizes a past action with results continuing into the future. The tense aids in establishing the identity of this “star” which had long ago been ejected from the heavenlies. The star is Satan , whose precosmic fall continues to afflict the human family (cf. Isa. 14; Ezek. 28). He is given a key (the power of release) to the bottomless pit. This “abyss” (Lit. shaft of the abyss) is apparently a place of confinement for fallen spirits (fallen angels).
9:3-12 The nature of these “locusts” is not that of a physical insect . They are expressly forbidden to inflict the kind of destruction which is characteristic of the insect (vv. 3, 4). Their humanlike faces and hair indicate that they are intelligent spiritual life (vv. 7-9). They do not kill, but the torment unleashed on the human family is so devastating that men seek death, only to find that, strangely, death flees away (vv. 5, 6). The best interpretation of this locust plague of the fifth trumpet is that these hideous, repugnant, and evil creatures are demonic in nature (v. 11). One of the ministries of the Holy Spirit in the present dispensation is the restraining of evil (2 Thess 2:6, 7). This charitable ministry of restraining the onslaught of evil will be concluded just before the beginning of the Tribulation, and the end result will be a devastating invasion of the demonic in the lives of men. So stringent and devastating is this plague that John designates it the first of three woes (Rev 9:12).
9:11 The “king” or angel who rules over these dissident spirits is also assigned a name which is characteristic of his work. The Hebrew word abaddon and the Greek term apollyon both signify “destruction.” However, this should not be understood as annihilation. The word apollyon arises from luo (Gk.), meaning “to loose,” and apo, a preposition indicating movement away. The idea is that the destruction caused by Satan and sin is, in effect, the loss of all meaningful existence and is due to being loosed forever from God.
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Michael Harrison
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Quote (from 144000 post): "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. (etc..it gets worse from there)"
Why will they not die? Is it a question of advancement in medicine? Will the body be 'hard to kill,' due to medical discoveries that prolong life?
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