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Topic: male and female, created in the image of God
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PresbyGirl
Community Member
Member # 6818
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posted
One more thing -- who on earth would consider a lump of clay to be more valuable than a human rib? It makes no sense whether you look at it physically or spiritually. I REALLY would like to hear what aiopj meant by that -- AND I would like to hear if he or she thinks Jesus would look at it that way. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you judge people, you have no time to love them. -- Mother Teresa
Posts: 14 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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PresbyGirl
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posted
Thanks Aaron. I was wondering about that too. Umm... I'll bet ADAM didn't consider it a cheaper cut. It cost him a rib!
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If you judge people, you have no time to love them. -- Mother Teresa
Posts: 14 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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Aaron
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You are correct Eden. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And to note: we are still waiting for an explanation.
Aaron
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Eden
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aiopj had said: "the rib--cause it is a cheaper cut" and Aaron asked aiopj what he meant by that, and then aiopj answered Aaron:
"you're kidding, right?"
Eden here: Actually, aiopj, I had wondered the same thing as Aaron. I interpreted your remark "the rib--cause it's a cheaper cut" as a chauvinist remark which put women down. To me you implied that "women are made of a cheaper cut of meat than men" and therefore men are superior and women are inferior to men.
I'm sure that Aaron also considered it a slight to women (correct me if I'm wrong, Aaron).
So no, NOT KIDDING. What DID you mean by that phrase, aiopj?
In the beginning, God created them male and female, in the image and likeness of God. Then woman was further asked to, in obedience subordinate herself to the man, who is often her husband, in case there is a dispute between them.
Men, however, often take this as an opportunity to be abusive to women because, after all, you were not even taken from the original dust, you were taking from my rib!!!!!
The woman is equal to man but is furthermore being asked, by obedience to God, to subordinate herself in matters of dispute between her and the man. But she is doing it out of obedience to God, not out of inferiority to man. That is a big difference.
with love, Eden
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aiopj
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posted
Originally posted by aiopj:
quote:
Instead, He took a part of the man -- the rib cuz it's a cheaper cut -- to make woman.
Originally posted by Aaron:
quote:
Please explain the part in bold.
You're kidding, right?
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Aaron
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by aiopj:
Instead, He took a part of the man -- the rib cuz it's a cheaper cut -- to make woman.
Please explain the part in bold.
Aaron
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Eden
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posted
Hi, ajopj. You said:
“So, Eden are you saying that, in the one place in the Word, God made them equal, and, in other places, He says that the woman subordinates herself to the man, and that, therefore, God contradicts Himself? Are you speaking in favor of contradictions in the Word of God?
Eden here:
No, aiopj, I am not saying what you are saying above. This is what I am saying, aiopj. In the beginning, God made them male and female, and both were made in the image and likeness of God, so that, in this, they were equal.
Then, secondarily, eventhough the male and the femael were equal in the matter of both being made in the image of God, God further asked the woman to be willingly obedient to the following hierarchy: God over Christ, Christ over man, and the man over the woman. She willingly subordinates herself to the male eventhough they are equally made in the image of God.
By an act of her will, she subordinates herself to the male in case there is a dispute between the male and the female, about what they think they heard from the Holy Spirit. But in practice, as husband and wife at least, the husband and wife are usually in agreement so the husband rarely will even have the opportunity to make the final decision.
aiopj, you then further said to Eden:
“Or, are you merely applying your own reasoning -- private interpretations -- to Scripture?”
Eden here:
Aren’t we all applying our own reasoning? We as individuals are given bodily organs or bodily instruments which are designed to interpret things we come into contact with, and in humans, this instrument is the spirit of man and the soul and the mind or intellect, with which each person interprets the Bible which they are reading or listening to on CD. We ALL have our private interpretations. That is, if we have done any Bible reading ourselves.
Only when the only thing I know about the Bible came from a preacher or teacher of the Bible, yes, then I can say that I do not have any private interpretations, although, even there, I would have private interpretations about the preacher’s private interpretations.
May the LORD God help us to love each other,
Eden
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
In Genesis 1 it says that the man will leave his father and mother:
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
But in the patriarchal system of marriage, as also in Israel, it was the woman who left her family and joined her husband's family.
Where, in the area of Genesis 2:24, does It say that the woman does not also leave her family to join him?
Wouldn't she, also, have to leave her family to join him, or is it just he who has to leave his family?
Does it make any sense that he is the only one who has to leave a family, and that she gets to stay with hers?
People, people, people...
Isa 1:18 --
quote:
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD...
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aiopj
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
It is interesting that in Genesis 1 God created the Man as male and female, made in the image of God, but that in Christ there is neither male nor female (Galatians 3:28), and in heaven they neither marry nor are given in marriage.
Act 10:34 God is no respecter of persons
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
What did God have in mind therefore to create them "male and female" on earth eventhough they were both made in the image of God where they neither marry nor are given in marriage?
That is what the Word calls a "foolish question."
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
... both male and female were equally made in the image of God and so in that they were no different.
Then, why didn't He create woman as He did the man?
Instead, He took a part of the man -- the rib cuz it's a cheaper cut -- to make woman.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
It is therefore the greater thing...the God-ordained hierarchy.
So, Eden are you saying that, in the one place in the Word, God made them equal, and, in other places, He says that the woman subordinates herself to the man, and that, therefore, God contradicts Himself?? Are you speaking in favor of contradictions in the Word of God??
Or, are you merely applying your own reasoning -- private interpretations -- to Scripture?
We're on a need-to-know basis all up in here.
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Eden
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posted
In Genesis 1 it says that the man will leave his father and mother:
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
But in the patriarchal system of marriage, as also in Israel, it was the woman who left her family and joined her husband's family.
with love, Eden
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Aaron
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posted
Also, consider that both men and women make up the church who is the "Bride of Christ". Men have no notion of what being a bride is so, through obedience, the woman instructs the man about how to be a proper bride.
Aaron
P.S. Another thing (this topic is one of interest to me) we should note that, when creating woman, God did not make another lump of clay. He took a piece from the man and made woman from it. Later, in Ephesians, Paul explains that the creation of man and woman is an allegory of Christ and the church (actual verse Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.). In effect: we, who are in Christ are in fact of Christ according to God.
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Eden
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posted
It is interesting that in Genesis 1 God created the Man as male and female, made in the image of God, but that in Christ there is neither male nor female (Galatians 3:28), and in heaven they neither marry nor are given in marriage.
What did God have in mind therefore to create them "male and female" on earth eventhough they were both made in the image of God where they neither marry nor are given in marriage?
In Genesis 1 the Man is created male and female, and both are made in the image of God. Yet, God declared that the female was to be surordinate in the hierarchy: God was the head of Christ, Christ was the head of man, man was the head of the woman.
But, both male and female were equally made in the image of God and so in that they were no different.
It is therefore the greater thing that the woman, being equal to the male, places herself through obedience to the command of God subordinate to her equal male, and, in case of dispute about what whether the Holy Spirit said this or said that, what the Holy Spirit said to the male rules. The woman agrees to do it this way because God asked her to, eventhough both the male and the female are made in the image of God.
This order in the hierarchy is however often screwed up when the male isn't listening properly to the Holy Spirit, and when a wife is, "almost more spiritual than her husband".
But if the male will perform his duty to listen to the Holy Spirit and to hearing the Word, then the woman can safely and effectively subordinate herself to the male.
But they are both made in the image of God. Therefore it is by OBEDIENCE only and not by INFERIORITY that a woman places herself subordinate to the male in the God-ordained hierarchy.
with love, Eden
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aiopj
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posted
God is spirit.
If Man is made in the Image of God, then He made Man a spirit, and He says so much: God made the spirit of Man first, programmed him, then put the spirit into a body. Out of that body, He made a woman, and, by the way, not another man.
As the Word says -- paraphrased -- don't be concerned about what can kill the body, rather what can kill the spirit. The Devil, in the Garden, vexed Eve's spirit.
The Word of God is a spiritual journey, and everything that is manifested in the physical, first was spiritual. So, Israel is not only on the geographical map, but, also, firstly, a matter of spiritual geography.
Therefore, it makes sense that the Word tells us not to be guided by circumstances.
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oneinchrist
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posted
Good morning Eden,
I agree with your post.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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posted
Hi, oneinchrist. It may be that the part that was made into the image of God was "having fellowship with God".
The Bible declares that God is a Triune God of God Father, God Son and God the Holy Spirit who have fellowship with one another.
Likewise, by creating both male and female in the image and likeness of God, it resulted in fellowship between the male and female and God.
No other creature on earth has a notion and understanding that there even is a God the Creator of heaven and earth, and that God has a Son and that there is a Holy Spirit.
As such, only the human male and human female have been made in the image and likeness of God, which is, "we can know God and love God". No other creature can do that; only humans can.
So that maybe how both male and female humans are made in the image and likeness of God. God knows us, and we know God.
love,
Eden
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Eden,
I think that most people think of image to mean how God looks. If I took a crack at your question, I would say that I think that our senses would be a likeness to God...our sense of sight, hearing, taste, smell, and feel. Ive even heard of a sixth sense, but I personally believe that it is only available by the power of the Holy Spirit. With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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corriee
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posted
I do not know how we are made in the likeness of God, I know He tells us we are made that way. I know God is a Spirit, and no man hath seen God, only the Son, therefore, perhaps we are made after the Son,like in man as Jesus was made.
Some say we are made like God by being a trinity ourselves... like our body, soul and spirit...that also would be like God.
We can all be made like God yet different because we are given that ability by God who can do all things.
Posts: 53 | From: Close to the heart of Texas | Registered: Aug 2007
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Eden
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posted
I liked this part of your reply post, corriee. You said:
“Think of it like this, {Eden} God made man to be an action figure, he farms, hunts and falls in love with woman.
“Woman is made to be a responder. When man brings her dinner, tells her he loves her, she can't help but respond. I think that is how God made us.”
Eden here: LOL.
But if both the male and the female were made in the image and likeness of God, how then can the female become a responder to the male if they both were equally made in the image and likeness of God?.
The question for this Topic "male and female, created in the image of God" therefore becomes, what does it mean for the male and the female to be made in the image and likeness of God”?
In what way were we made in the image and likeness of God”?
With my love in Him,
I am, Eden
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corriee
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posted
Think of it like this, God made man to be an
action figure, he farms, hunts and falls in love
with woman.
Woman is made to be a responder. When man brings her dinner, tells her he loves her, she can't help but respond. I think that is how God made us.
Now, woman has taken over the manly duties, and it is all mixed up, but originaly I think that woman was like a soft extra conscious for man.
It isn't so much being lower than man as it is being different from man.
Man is the protector, the stronger of the two.
Read in Proverbs 31 what help a woman is. When
she does her duties correctly a man is free to worship God and teach his household, when his work is done.
They each glorify God, and are an example of His deep love for us.
Posts: 53 | From: Close to the heart of Texas | Registered: Aug 2007
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Eden
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But eventhough both the male and the female are equally made in the image of God, is the woman, according to the ordinance of creation, subordinate to the man?
In the first creation narrative in Genesis 1, Man is created equal, “male and female made He them”, and there is not a hint of the female being subordinate to the male.
But in the Genesis 2 narrative (2:18-23), the text allows, if it does not actually imply, that the “woman was created from and for the man”.
Genesis 2
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
If in Genesis 1, the man was created “male and female made He them, in the image of God made He them”, what then is the theological significance of the fact that woman was taken from the rib of the man to be a proper help for him?
Did the fact that the man was created first imply thus headship over the woman? And does the fact that the woman was taken from the rib of the man, though both were made in the image of God, imply that the male has headship over the woman and that the woman is subordinate to the man?
Some pivotal texts of Paul apply to this subject. And in his letters, none of Paul’s statements: (1) imply that he thought of the woman as being less the object of God’s redemptive love than a man; (2) some statements of Paul do imply that he thought of the woman as inferior to man; and (3) all of the statements of Paul imply that he thought of the woman as subordinate to the man.
Let’s look what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:3-9:
1 Corinthians 11:2-18 (KJV)
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.
5 But every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
If in the beginning He made both of them male and female, in the image of God, how can verse 7 then say that the man is the image and glory of God while the woman is the glory of man, as repeated below:
1 Corinthians 11:7
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
If the male and female were both created in the image of God, how can she be subordinate to the male? By ordinance and obedience thereto?
With love to all,
Eden
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Eden
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It is probably for this reason also that the Bible says that it is NOT GOOD for man to be alone:
Genesis 2:18
18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.
Since no animals were made in the image of God, the only way that a male could experience or work with his being made in the image of God was through and with and by a female who was also made in the image of God, a "an appropriate help for him."
Animals are nice, but there is no substitute for a female or a male who is also made in the image of God.
Mark 10:6
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Eden
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Eden
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The one thing that makes man and woman, the male and the female, differ from animals is that the male and female humans were created in the image of God.
Genesis 1:17
And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
When a human male and human female become related in marriage, they enter into a more intimate human fellowship than while they were single.
But this human fellowship of marriage is not the most basic of human fellowship.
Because, even while the male and female are yet single, they ARE related because both the male and the female are EQUALLY made in the image of God.
This is true for both a single male and female and a married male and female. This therefore is the most basic fellowship between a human male and a human female, that both are equally created in the image of God, a distinction that no other animal shares with them.
My love is in Him,
Eden
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