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Author
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Topic: Are You Ready?????
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Victina
New Member
Member # 6234
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posted
I used to believe in the pre-trib rapture. When I first got saved I fell hook, line and sinker. Of course I had all the left behind books, movies and web sites to paint the picture for me. And of course they all use the same scriptures. At first I was thrilled and couldn't get enough as long as I stayed within the boundaries of the prescribed teachings and didn't question it.Well,after a while the novelty of being set apart or at least feeling and believing I was,,,after all,I was going to be raptured away and then all the people left that didn't believe would know.Thing is..it was my children, my family,my friends, my neighbors...people all around me.And God knew. I would pray and ask God to forgive me.I knew I loved him most of all.He did too.But I found myself thinking I wouldn't even mind not being raptured, no matter what I had to endure as long as I could stay and help others to be saved.And the one thing I always include in all my prayers is to be shown the truth in all things and to not be deceived.Being a researcher, discernment is invaluable.
The first thing that made me question the pre-trib teaching was when I found it wasn't even part of the early church teaching and that it didn't start until around 1830.I know that has been disputed but I am satisfied by extensive research that it holds true.However,I beleive Jesus.The bible.All scripture can be interpreted in many ways.But Jesus can't be disputed.
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
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Matt13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
If Jesus said "let them grow together(the wheat and the tares) until the harvest", and the harvest is the end of the world, when the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,doesn't that mean the saints are here until the end?
The good seed and the bad seed.From the garden to Armegeddon..
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Matt13:37-43 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear
Matt13:47-5147 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord
Matt24:6-13 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. . .
Matt28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen
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John 6:39,40,44,54 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME. ALL. HE DIDN'T SAY THAT WHICH IS LEFT . ALL.... ON THE LAST DAY.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
LAST DAY
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. .
LAST DAY
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
LAST DAY
John11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
LAST DAY
John12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
LAST DAY
1Cor15,51-55 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
LAST TRUMP
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
2Cor.1:13,14 13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end.
EVEN TO THE END
14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Heb 3:6,14 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
UNTO THE END
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
UNTO THE END
Heb 6:10,11 10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end.
UNTO THE END
Rev2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
UNTO THE END
Sorry, didn't mean to get off on a tangent my first post. God Bless
Vicki
THE END LOL
Posts: 2 | From: New York | Registered: Dec 2006
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EL3LN3TN
unregistered
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posted
Sure - No prob! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
Hi EL3LN3TN, you said to Eden:
"btw, I am saved."
Eden here:
You don't talk like a saved person, EL3.
With the real-time verb "talk" - you seem to be under the assumption that we are in a real time face to face verbal exchange. Not the case. This is the internet. Yes, I DO have the option of taking that as an insult.
Are YOU saved??
quote:
Would you be willing to tell me in a few phrases what it means to be saved?
Sure! It means you tell a ranking church administrator in your local church that you are "saved", and experienced a great sensual pleasure in attaining this state. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
Re the rational working explanation, what I meant was that earthlings don't know exactly how Jesus does it, but Jesus does it eventhough we don't know HOW Jesus does it.
That is what I meant when I said, in so many long words, that an EARTHLY rational working explanation DOES NOT EXIST because humans do not know HOW Jesus did the miralces described in the New Testament.
Ok. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
So, can you tell me what saves you, EL3? I'd be interested in hearing.
Systole and diastole, AUM and HA
Interesting, the difference between (past tense) "saved" and an ongoing process of "saves". ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:
Hi, EL3LN3TN. You said to GoodNewsforALL:
You can't even spell adamantly.
Eden here:
Salvation is much more important and precious than whether someone can spell correctly.
Apples, and oranges.
Spelling correctly is a real-time measure of one's functional literacy, God-given intellect, and coherency of thought.
"Salvation" is a metaphysical chimera that can be pondered as equally thru dosing oneself with heroin, watching a Billy Graham TV special, or practicing Bibliomancy (Bible study).
btw - Disclaimer: I DO NOT claim 100% spelling accuracy myself
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
That is the beauty of the Lord's plan: even people who cannot spell can receive the free gift of eternal life through Jesus's work on the cross.
![[Cool]](cool.gif) Hey- tht's cool!! "Eternal life" means really feeling good, right??
quote:
In most other "religions" it is a matter of pride to achieve the next spiritual insight", as if the only the ultra intelligent or alpha male or female can comprehend the facts necessary to "achieve spirituality."
Huh?? That's not makin' sense, sorry.
quote:
The beauty of what the LORD God of Israel created through Jesus is that JESUS did the work on our behalf, so WHERE IS BOASTING THEN? There is no boasting.
Pride will say "I am not a sinner" and "I don't need anyone to die for me", "nor do I WANT anyone to die for me".
But pride has nothing to do when one accepts everything that JESUS did as OUR means of getting into salvation. Where is boasting then?
Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law {is it excluded}? {By the law} of works? No. {It is excluded} by the law of faith {in what Jesus did in our place}. {my additions}
So whether one can spell adamantly or not, has nothing to do with how one goes about getting saved. It is much more important to be saved than whether one can spell adamantly correctly or not. You can probably spell adamantly correctly, but I'm not sure that you are saved.
Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit goes before a fall.
Save yourselves from this untoward generation of Adam and Eve.
EL3LN3TN, you don't even talk like a Christian.
Uh...yeah, ok - but then again - that last part??? - Keep in mind what I said about the internet??
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, EL3LN3TN. You said to GoodNewsforALL:
You can't even spell adamantly.
Eden here:
Salvation is much more important and precious than whether someone can spell correctly.
That is the beauty of the Lord's plan: even people who cannot spell can receive the free gift of eternal life through Jesus's work on the cross.
In most other "religions" it is a matter of pride to achieve the next spiritual insight", as if the only the ultra intelligent or alpha male or female can comprehend the facts necessary to "achieve spirituality."
The beauty of what the LORD God of Israel created through Jesus is that JESUS did the work on our behalf, so WHERE IS BOASTING THEN? There is no boasting.
Pride will say "I am not a sinner" and "I don't need anyone to die for me", "nor do I WANT anyone to die for me".
But pride has nothing to do when one accepts everything that JESUS did as OUR means of getting into salvation. Where is boasting then?
Romans 3:27
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law {is it excluded}? {By the law} of works? No. {It is excluded} by the law of faith {in what Jesus did in our place}. {my additions}
So whether one can spell adamantly or not, has nothing to do with how one goes about getting saved. It is much more important to be saved than whether one can spell adamantly correctly or not. You can probably spell adamantly correctly, but I'm not sure that you are saved.
Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit goes before a fall.
Save yourselves from this untoward generation of Adam and Eve.
EL3LN3TN, you don't even talk like a Christian.
Be blessed.
Eden
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Eden
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posted
Hi EL3LN3TN, you said to Eden:
"btw, I am saved."
Eden here:
You don't talk like a saved person, EL3. Would you be willing to tell me in a few phrases what it means to be saved?
Re the rational working explanation, what I meant was that earthlings don't know exactly how Jesus does it, but Jesus does it eventhough we don't know HOW Jesus does it.
That is what I meant when I said, in so many long words, that an EARTHLY rational working explanation DOES NOT EXIST because humans do not know HOW Jesus did the miralces described in the New Testament.
So, can you tell me what saves you, EL3? I'd be interested in hearing.
Be blessed.
Eden
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EL3LN3TN
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred.Since you have adamently shown that you don't believe in prophesy of the future, anything we would say would be futile. I really don't feel like going around in an endless circle.
You can't even spell adamantly.
YES, I DO believe in "prophesy of the future" - it is a biological phenomenon, possessed by humans, which has manifested itself in my own lifetime, toward me, personally, and I have the gift of revelation
BIG DEAL. It would be vain of me to brag.
It DOES NOT occur over thousands of years, as pop-culture religionists, and "rapture" fans claim.
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
[QB] Hi, EL3LN3TN. You said:
...but it has'nt happened yet (0.0000...)...and the biggest problem seems to be providing a rational working explanation of the process by which this magickal levitation or disappearance will work, or even be feasible in the first place. heh-heh...I mean aside from fictional, entertaining depictions!
Seems to be a real sore spot in the whole thing
Eden here:
The biggest problem is your own big problem and the real sore spot is your sore own spot. A rational working explanation for what Jesus did does not exist on earth, because Jesus was supernatural, not made from earth’s sinful energy but made from a fresh infusion of pure, clean holy spirit energy, implanted directly as a fertilized egg into the womb of Miriam (Mary) of Nazareth, by the LORD God of Israel she was "overshadowed".
Ok great. You've just attempted to shift blame by claiming (nonexistent) "sore spot(s)" or "problem(s)" possessed by the other person.
The problem being, that I don't really have a "problem" with this, but am just interested in a rational explanation.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
There is no rational working explanation for this because Jesus aid, “I am from above, and you are from below” and Jesus also said to the people in Israel, “You are from the earth, earthly, but I am from heaven, heavenly”....So EL3LN3TN, a RATIONAL WORKING EXPLANATION for what Jesus did does NOT EXIST...
OK - That would settle it, then. It's just a load of theological prose.
btw - yes, I am saved.
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
LORD God of Israel, please choose EL3LN3TN too, since we are all equally sinners. Can you see yourself as a sinner, EL3? But about Someone Special dying on your behalf for your sins, do you like that, or do you think that is nonsense?
Do you think everyone is still responsible for their own sins, or did Jesus die for our sins and whosoever accepts Jesus’s suffering work on the cross for their sins (which all have committed, all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God which Jesus had) becomes that free gift, by which we, well, freely receive eternal life through the wonderful work that Jesus did on the cross, coming the first time as the Suffering Servant of God.
OOPS - man, sorry, but that is just vain repitition in prayer, and you may have to answer for it, sometime. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Eden
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posted
Hi, EL3LN3TN. You said:
...but it has'nt happened yet (0.0000...)...and the biggest problem seems to be providing a rational working explanation of the process by which this magickal levitation or disappearance will work, or even be feasible in the first place. heh-heh...I mean aside from fictional, entertaining depictions!
Seems to be a real sore spot in the whole thing
Eden here:
The biggest problem is your own big problem and the real sore spot is your sore own spot. A rational working explanation for what Jesus did does not exist on earth, because Jesus was supernatural, not made from earth’s sinful energy but made from a fresh infusion of pure, clean holy spirit energy, implanted directly as a fertilized egg into the womb of Miriam (Mary) of Nazareth, by the LORD God of Israel she was "overshadowed".
There is no rational working explanation for this because Jesus aid, “I am from above, and you are from below” and Jesus also said to the people in Israel, “You are from the earth, earthly, but I am from heaven, heavenly”.
And the miracles which Jesus did prove that Jesus was no ordinary, human, being. Unless you think that these wonderful accounts of what Jesus did written by 4 mostly uneducated Galilean fishermen, or by 3 uneducated Galilean fishermen, since Luke was a physician, just, some nice writing by uneducated fishermen who did a great job coordinating their stories while sitting in their fishingboats on the Sea of Galilee? And talk to the physician Luke as soon as they could?
So EL3LN3TN, a RATIONAL WORKING EXPLANATION for what Jesus did does NOT EXIST, because Jesus was supra-earthly and secondly it shows that you do not believe in miracles. Once the Bible account convinced me that miracles were really going on in Israel through Jesus, then I could also believe that death and resurrection was true, that Jesus was seen by over 500 witnesses was true and that Jesus’s ascension from Bethany by the mount of Olives was true, and that He will likewise so come again as you saw Him go.”
Believe and be saved before He comes, this time as king over the whole earth, not just over Israel any more. And He shall reign for ever and ever. King of Kings, and LORD of Lords.
Do you BELIEVE these things from reading or hearing the Bible on tape? If not, you are not saved/bornagain yet. From your answers I would say that you are NOT saved yet.
LORD God of Israel, please choose EL3LN3TN too, since we are all equally sinners. Can you see yourself as a sinner, EL3? But about Someone Special dying on your behalf for your sins, do you like that, or do you think that is nonsense?
Do you think everyone is still responsible for their own sins, or did Jesus die for our sins and whosoever accepts Jesus’s suffering work on the cross for their sins (which all have committed, all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God which Jesus had) becomes that free gift, by which we, well, freely receive eternal life through the wonderful work that Jesus did on the cross, coming the first time as the Suffering Servant of God.
But the next time He will come as Absolute King of the Earth, so Psalm 2:12 admonishes all sinners to:
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry with you, and YOU PERISH FROM THE WAY {you miss out on the free gift of eternal life procured for us through the suffering love of Jesus Christ, declared to be the Son of God over and over again, by miracles and signs}, when His wrath is kindled but a little {when He comes again}.
Be saved, everyone.
Eden
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Favor Minded
Advanced Member
Member # 4661
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posted
Hi Betty!!
Great!! How you doin??
Looking forward to the Holidays??
Mom is good - She keeps busy with her computer, home and church : )
Be Blessed!!
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Favor Minded
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Member # 4661
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posted
quote:
Stick to the theory you know about and don't make false claims about teachings you don't understand
Maybe it would be best if you were to refrain in the future from making assumptions about what you "think" I know and understand.
Actually, I have studied thoroughly the following:
Pre Trib / Wrath
Mid Trib / Wrath
Post Trib / Wrath
Amillenialism
Preterism
And other AD70 doctrines which attempt to remove the literal translations and attempt to make prophecy allegorical.
The "All" you refer to was simply the other timings, which I did indeed state clearly.
With that said, I would appreciate it if you would refrain making assumptions about what I do and do not understand.
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred.
Since you have adamently shown that you don't believe in prophesy of the future, anything we would say would be futile. I really don't feel like going around in an endless circle.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
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EL3LN3TN
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred. This has about as much value as a person boldly announcing: "My Pastor just 'proved' to me that I have won next Thursdays' lottery!!!"
God isn't my local pastor. All scripture is God-breathed, and his prophecies are read through faith that he is telling me the truth. Non-believers try to figure out God's promises through logic, but it doesn't work because they have veil of misunderstanding over their eyes.
Awrighty. ![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif) ....but still nobody has given a practicable explanation of how the rapture phenomenon-thingy will work.
Must be that "veil of misunderstanding", eh??
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EL3LN3TN
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posted
...I'll just refer back to an earlier point, already made:
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
Regardless of what you believe concerning the timing of the rapture, there is substantial proof in the Word that a pre tribulation catching away will indeed happen.
I would change one word in this statement...instead of pre-tribulation ....
I would say pre-wrath...
Regardless of what you believe concerning the timing of the rapture, there is substantial proof in the Word that a pre-wrath catching away will indeed happen.
be Blessed
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred. This has about as much value as a person boldly announcing: "My Pastor just 'proved' to me that I have won next Thursdays' lottery!!!"
God isn't my local pastor. All scripture is God-breathed, and his prophecies are read through faith that he is telling me the truth. Non-believers try to figure out God's promises through logic, but it doesn't work because they have veil of misunderstanding over their eyes.
1 Cor. 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
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EL3LN3TN
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Favor Minded:
Regardless of what you believe concerning the timing of the rapture, there is substantial proof in the Word that a pre tribulation catching away will indeed happen.
Sorry, but "proof" is not a valid term pertaining to an event that has not even yet occurred.
This has about as much value as a person boldly announcing: "My Pastor just 'proved' to me that I have won next Thursdays' lottery!!!"
The feeling of having an authoritative handle on future great events (of an illogical, unexplainable nature) Is apparently strong wine for some ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ...
(ps - ...I've even included an unchallengeable, authoritative second-hand source for this example as well...)
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
quote:
What each of the other beliefs deny is very specific - Imminent Return of Jesus -
As a believer in ANY timing other than a "Pre Tribulation Rapture" you are stating clearly you know one thing for sure - Jesus IS NOT coming, yet.
Pre Trib is the ONLY doctrine that maintains the doctrine of imminency which Paul taught clearly and adamently.
SOME other theories MAY deny the -Imminent Return of Jesus - ALL do not deny that.
Stick to the theory you know about and don't make false claims about teachings you don't understand.
HO-KA-HEY
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
Favor,
How are you? me, I got a flu shot last week and now I have the flu. Go figure
Your mom is such a wonderful encouragement to me. I apprciate her loving heart very much.
I am a Pre-tribber, myself.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Favor Minded
Advanced Member
Member # 4661
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posted
Regardless of what you believe concerning the timing of the rapture, there is substantial proof in the Word that a pre tribulation catching away will indeed happen.
Paul taught it, and was quite clear that it would happen, and that each should pray they do not have to go through it, and that it would happen before son of perdition / man of sin / AntiChrist would be revealed.
He taught there is a special crown for those who watch daily for his return.
What each of the other beliefs deny is very specific - Imminent Return of Jesus -
As a believer in ANY timing other than a "Pre Tribulation Rapture" you are stating clearly you know one thing for sure - Jesus IS NOT coming, yet.
Pre Trib is the ONLY doctrine that maintains the doctrine of imminency which Paul taught clearly and adamently.
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
BUT....I'm quite sure this is in reference to Jewish traditionalists at the time, referring to Messianic identity issues, and the "scoffing" of persons claiming messiah-hood, not of a rapture/levitation event. ...also "scoffing" implies blatant (often pointless) mockery, personal attack, or denigration - not simple objective inquiry.
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV)
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Wherefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (KJV)
The timing of the Rapture has long been the subject of much debate among Christians. When the Rapture will occur is NOT the most important issue. Knowing Yeshua as your Lord and Savior and being ready WHENEVER it may occur is what is most important.
:: The Rapture ...
"Rapture" ... This controversial word brings indescribable hope and joy to some ...
and confusion and even dread to others ... The Rapture ... should be nothing less then the ultimate Blessed Hope and eager expectation of every true Christian. It is what the early church longed for and through the centuries has continued to be the hope of many. While others have decided it is something too good to be true and abandoned such thoughts .... obviously they have forgotten that everything about Yeshua/Jesus is too good to be true - YET IT IS!
The word 'Rapture' does not appear in the English Bible - It comes from the Latin Vulgate.
In God's Word it was the Apostle Paul who explains the Rapture to us.
He describes it as a "Mystery." (1 Corinthians 15:51-53)
The word in the original Greek is 'Mysterion'.
Which meant he was revealing a new truth, not known before.
This mysterious event is most clearly represented in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ...
In this passage the English phrase "caught up" translates the Greek word HARPAZO, which means "to seize upon with force" or "to snatch up." The Latin translators of the Bible used the word "rapturo," the root of the English term "Rapture." At the Rapture, living believers will be "caught up" in the air, translated into the clouds, in a moment in time to join the Lord in the air.
The Rapture is a signless event that could always have occurred imminently! The signs that we are given in the Bible are that of the Tribulation period which proceeds the Second Coming of Christ. So, with all of these signs even before us NOW - How much closer must the Rapture be!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
...but it has'nt happened yet (0.0000...)...and the biggest problem seems to be providing a rational working explanation of the process by which this magickal levitation or disappearance will work, or even be feasible in the first place. heh-heh...I mean aside from fictional, entertaining depictions!
Seems to be a real sore spot in the whole thing
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
2 Peter 3:3-10 (NIV)
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TEXASGRANDMA
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This is the way I see it. If God can breathe life into dirt, He can call His Children home to Heaven in the rapture. Yes, we are to comfort one another with the knowledge of the rapture. The Bible says so.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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EL3LN3TN
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But that still does'nt offer a practical, explainable solution as to how (physics, mechanics) this proposed phenomenon will occur, and from what I can tell, it most certainly is being promoted as a "literal" physical event that WILL occur , by those promoting it.
No I'm not really expecting the scriptures to contain a detailed, practical explanation, necessarily - I leave that up to the ones promoting this. btw - Did you know that "rapture" can also refer to "fleeing by boat across a body of water, or of an emotional state??
" 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Big problem - this is proposed as a selective "catching up" of just certain human individuals (at the expense of others)...so wind, I suppose could be ruled out...hmmm...and "divine intervention" is too vague and even an overworked cliche'.
Hey - but wait a minute -
"1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
OHHhhh!! I think I might see....we are instructed to merely tell this to others in order to comfort them - regardless of feasibility, I suppose. hmmm....
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Kindgo
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EL3LN3TN
Nothing "magickal" at all.
It will be by Divine intervention, see this is what the Bible says about it all. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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EL3LN3TN
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...but it has'nt happened yet (0.0000...)...and the biggest problem seems to be providing a rational working explanation of the process by which this magickal levitation or disappearance will work, or even be feasible in the first place. heh-heh...I mean aside from fictional, entertaining depictions!
Seems to be a real sore spot in the whole thing
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Eden
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The Bible says that when the unbelieving crowd see that the resurrection that it was true just as the Christians had been saying, that they will be "dripping with envy":
Isaiah 26:11
LORD, when Your hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yes, the fire of Your enemies shall devour them.
But personally, I don't think anyone will be "left behind" since in my opinion, the rapture will happen at the Second Coming.
But we do need to "get ready" or "belief in Jesus while we are yet alive"; once we are dead OR the Second Coming and Rapture occurs, the door of the ark is shut:
Matthew 25
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say to you, I do not know you.
He does not know them because they never accepted Jesus.
Be blessed.
Eden
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I had seen that before, but everytime I see it, I jump when he drops the Bible. I can't help but feel sorry for those who get left behind, who knows the truth but are waiting to get saved later. When the rapture happens I can't even imagine the grief will come to those who knows what happened and knows in their hearts that they did not have to miss the rapture.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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KnowHim
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Wow, now that was good!!!
God bless,
David
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