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Topic: Minister Turned Athiest
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bought@paid4
Advanced Member
Member # 6110
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posted
I have my doubts that he ever converted to start with as well.
Posts: 26 | From: Missouri | Registered: Sep 2006
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Pio
unregistered
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posted
When reading the article something jumped out at me right away. I get the impression he "ran away" to preaching school. When he said that secular college was to evil for him it concerns me. We do not and can not tolerate sin. We have to be in this world but not of this world. He seems to have run away to an ideal in his head. the problem is that we must first love the people we are around whether they know Christ, or live their faith. Jesus was around sinners all the time, granted he did take time away to fast and pray. And probably spent some "retreat" time with the disciples, but that is different from what I sence this guy doing.
Preach always, use words when necessary - St. Francis
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Eden
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Hi, J4Jesus, here is another thing to consider. God does not even look at your righteousness if you have accepted Jesus as your Substitute.
When we accept Jesus, then God can no longer at YOUR righteousness because you have ELECTED to have Jesus be your Substitute.
So dig this, J4Jesus, God looks at that Jesus's wound in Jesus's side and in the wrists of Jesus's hands and in Jesus's feet and God says to you, J4Jesus, "I see that the penalty for your sin has already been paid by Jesus."
The penalty for sins is death, as it is written, "The soul that sins, it shall die." And "we have all sinned, no, there is not one righteous."
Seeing then that you have chosen to have Jesus be your Substitute, J4Jesus, the penalty of death for your sins has already been paid by Jesus, and therefore you do not have to undergo the penalty of death again. You are saved because He already died for you.
The people in the world (and there will be many) who do not choose Jesus to be their Substitute for sin, must die their own penalty still: death; this is the second death for them, but not for you if Jesus is your Substitute; you will go free and will stay alive with Jesus.
So look, man, if you believe in Jesus, God looks at Jesus for you instead of looking at you. Don't you get it?
Be blessed.
Eden
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WKUHilltopper
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Member # 5472
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
hey what's up folks?
i do feel terrible.
man i raised hell earlier because i couldn't figure out how to do something and i just wanted God to kill me right there for cussing so badly.
J4Jesus, my friend, would you please consider calling these guys? They truly are wise in the ways of the Lord and I think they could help you with your struggles. They are very compassionate. It's a radio program, but you don't have to use your real name.
1-877-LAW-GRACE
(1-877-529-4722)
Here's their broadcast times:
Monday through Friday
3PM to 5PM EST
2PM to 4PM CST
1PM to 3PM MST
12PM to 2PM PST
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/
Please, buddy, think about giving them a call. I think they can help you out alot. They have for me. They are sincere about people's salvation and only want to help. They won't clown around with your concerns.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jazzee
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Member # 6040
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posted
I could not have said it better Eden ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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Eden
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Hi, J4Jesus, do you know that Peter cussed up a storm at the END of Jesus's ministry, when supposedly Peter "should have known better"?
Yes, here it is. In the following verse, "he" is Peter:
Matthew 26:74 (NJKV)
Then he began to curse and swear, saying, “I do not know the Man!” And immediately a rooster crowed.
J4Jesus, everyone on earth is an equal sinner on earth in God's eyes. There is no such thing as a better sinner and a worse sinner. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
There are some who try to be a "good" sinner after they became a bornagain Christian, but they still remain "sinners saved by grace" only.
But the 10 commandments are not hard to do, not steal, not kill, not bear false witness which includes not lying.
But each bornagain saved sinner is different because his or her natural family experiences are different.
Many saved sinners come from very dysfunctional families while other saved sinners were blessed with a fairly loving Christian family; but they are all still equally sinners in the eyes of God:
Romans 3:23 (NJKV)
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
A bornagain saved sinner who comes from a dysfunctional family cannot suddenly achieve wise words and actions, and many of their natural actions will manifest themselves.
Please know, J4Jesus, that because we are all sinners saved by grace only, we thank God every day that He has saved us because He so loved the world (even as we are) that He sent His only Begotten Son Jesus, that whosover believes in Him shall be saved; and whosoever does NOT believe in Him is condemned because they have NOT believed in the Son of God.
Brother J4Jesus, I am confident that you believe that Jesus was and is the Son of God sent from God. Jesus said, "Whosoever believes in Me believes in Him who sent Me".
Please understand, therefore, that it is not your sinner dysfunctional behavior which determines your salvation, but whether you admit that you are a hopeless sinner who can only be saved by the grace of God, through believing in Jesus's work on the cross.
So you don't feel good? Don't look at your dysfunctional sin but at your Savior and then you can thank your Savior, yes, you will be very, very thankful soon.
Be blessed.
Eden
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J4Jesus
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hey what's up folks?
i do feel terrible.
man i raised hell earlier because i couldn't figure out how to do something and i just wanted God to kill me right there for cussing so badly.
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Jazzee
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posted
I take it the person you described is yourself. If not, then I apologize for adressing you.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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Jazzee
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Member # 6040
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J4Jesus
I understand you.
I don't have the same problem with my faith as you have though. But the way you describe it, that you felt uncomfortable telling people that they deserve Hell. The feeling of being condemned by The Word constantly. I would feel very uncomfortable too.
I think the keywords are humbleness and grace. Words christians often tend to forget.
I look at it this way. I do not think people in general deserve Hell. I don't think God thinks that we deserve Hell literally speaking. I think this is why He sent Jesus to die on the cross.You can see it this way: God is kinda like the Sun. If we get too close to it you know what will happen. We will be consumed! In order for us to get close to the sun we will have to transform and become like the sun. The only way we can do that when it comes to God, is to receive The spirit of God through Christ.Why? Because sin has polluted us in a way that if we got too close to God we would burn no matter how much He loves us. When I testify, I try not to preach about Hell and damnation. I will much rather tell people about the overwhelming love and forgiveness of Jesus.I tell them about how faithful He has been to me. I tell them about my own experiences good and bad, not trying to sugarcoat or patronize. I try not to see them as "clients" that need to get saved, but rather as friends and fellow human beings. I will much rather than tell them that they deserve Hell ( I honestly think that will turn people away instead )tell them that God loved them so much that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins. When people want to know about sins, instead of naming sex drugs and rock'n'roll with a prudent offended look on our face, I tell them that sin is what separate us from God. Sin is not believing in Him and the one He sent. It is so easy to name the obvious that we can see, but what about selfrighteousness, egotism, judging others etc..? we all are guilty of these sins in some form.
Don't think that you are the only christian with unclean thoughts either. EVERYBODY is guilty of sinning with their mind. Try to see these thoughts as attacks.Or reminders. I remember I told the Devil once I was struggling like that, that everytime I got these thought I would see it as a reminder that it was time to pray for my parents salvation. Funny, but it helped.
Jesus is much more graceful and forgiving than what we give Him credit for. He does not expect you to become sinfree like that all by yourself. He only wants you to come to Him with all your flaws, dirty thoughts addictions and the various. He is not expecting you to become a respectable person first. Come as you are. He loves you and He loves the unbelievers just as much.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
well thanks but why are ya'll worrying about me?
if you're worrying about my eternal state, well then don't because it's already taken care of.
now i do have some major sin problems that need to go, so sure please pray for that still.
Sin is sin Josh. But if you re not being convicted when you commit them, which you say youre not. Then you need to question whether you ve "taken care of it". We all back slid, we all sin, none of us are perfect. But when youre a child of God and you sin and know it. You feel terrible. Those no worse feeling in the world. The flesh is a hard thing to control but if you really want to control, you can. You say you struggle with porn, well remove it. Get rid of it, throw it away, avoid it. If its an internet addiction, and it is an addiction, put up a filter that doesnt allow you to access it. Just punch a bunch of letters on your key board for the password so you dont know what it is.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Member # 4579
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quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/mydeconversion.html
Yea man there are SO many people that i've been reading about who have deconverted from Christianity and alot of them seem the same but what do you people think of this guy?
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org/mydeconversion.html
There is no such thing as a "former christian", or a "deconvert".
1 John 2:18-19
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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J4Jesus
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well thanks but why are ya'll worrying about me?
if you're worrying about my eternal state, well then don't because it's already taken care of.
now i do have some major sin problems that need to go, so sure please pray for that still.
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
good call Dave but the Truth doesn't bother me, i don't know what you're point is.
Quote:
All of this put me on the verge of giving up my faith about a year ago,
My point is:
You can worry about everything under the sun until you die or you can come to know Jesus Christ personally and you will have peace. If you know Jesus Christ personally, study your bible so you know Him better and pray often, then you will have peace and stop doubting everything. The truth will set you free. That is why Paul could sing in prison. He knew he was only here to serve the our King Jesus and not here to serve his own interests.
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If you actually know Jesus Christ and are truely born-again you don't even consider giving up.
Once Paul actually saw and came to know Jesus Christ he CHANGED and all the beatings, turmoil, people hating him, etc... did not change him after he was truely born-again. Until you go through the birthing process and seek to know God with ALL your heart. (this is a full time task and not just a one time study of the bible.) You will never finish the birthing cycle and become born-again. Knowing about Jesus is not being born-again. Being born again changes your life and you KNOW without a doubt that you are saved and you know Jesus.
No ritual, walking down the isle will save you. You must be born-again. This means you give up your life to God and die to self. Then you are born-again a second time to spend eterinity with the King of Kings - Jesus Christ. You know Him and know what He did for you on the cross. You know His voice. He is your first love. Nothing can make you doubt Him. Satan can not touch you because Satan can only touch the flesh, but not your soul. That is why the body is left here when you die and your soul goes on to be with Jesus. Once you are born-again Satan can not touch your soul to harm you because you are born-again and Jesus owns your soul. He may touch your body but He can never touch your soul again. That is how born-again believers can be content no matter what situation they are in. But until you are actually born-again you will waver back and forth because you don't really know Jesus. That is my point.
::::::::::::::::
Did you do the things I ask like going to the below links and studying them:
http://www.theschoolofchrist.net/
and listening to:
http://heargoodnews.org/mp3/Tony_Evans/confidence_Tony_Evans.m3u
Click here to listen
If not you don't want to know the truth, you just want to continue doubting.
Truly being saved is something you cant explain or make someone unsaved understand. Its a feeling, a warmth, a peace that is just so precious it cant be understood. A unsaved person, just cant comprehend. But when someone talks about what you just wrote, a truly saved person really does understand.
I was baptised at 10 and thought I was saved. But I didnt understand. I said the sinners prayer many times and felt nothing. I tried to convince myself I was saved but when ask if I was truly saved, I was unsure or I doubted it.
Easter Sunday 2003, was my time. It was time for me to surrender and I did, I truly did. I was born again. I didnt walk an aisle or just say a prayer. I truly surrendered. I cried like a baby right there in the pew. But there was no big rush or wonderful feeling or any of that. Actually, I was scared. Satan started attacking me immediately. He hated what I just did. Bc he lost me. Thoughts entered my head, will people laugh at me, what will my friends think, what will my family think. But the peace was there.
Josh, Im not going to sugar coat it for you and I m not trying to sound mean. I love you brother and I m worried about you. You know the Bible, you know the scriptures, you have read alot, but you re missing the one key thing. You havent surrendered. Just like that preacher. I say this bc youre looking for a big rush or something but it doesnt come, you still doubt God, you havent given up the worldly pleasures, you think God doesnt want you or hes given up on you, and now the post about atheist. Why are you even reading about them? Just bc God doesnt answer a prayer immediately doesnt mean its not going to happen. Hes an on time God, never late, never early, ALWAYS right on time.
David hit the nail on the head about the devil can attack the flesh or your worldly things. And he enjoys it. BUT the one thing he cant mess with, is my soul.
And just so you know, when I got saved, I didnt need God, at least that was my thinking. I had a good paying job, a beautiful wife, a new car, a house, money in the bank, 2 wonderful sons, I was on top of the world. What did I need God for? That was my thinking that morning. Boy, how wrong I was.
God Bless you Josh and I ll be praying for you.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
good call Dave but the Truth doesn't bother me, i don't know what you're point is.
Quote:
All of this put me on the verge of giving up my faith about a year ago,
My point is:
You can worry about everything under the sun until you die or you can come to know Jesus Christ personally and you will have peace. If you know Jesus Christ personally, study your bible so you know Him better and pray often, then you will have peace and stop doubting everything. The truth will set you free. That is why Paul could sing in prison. He knew he was only here to serve the our King Jesus and not here to serve his own interests.
::::::::::::::::
If you actually know Jesus Christ and are truely born-again you don't even consider giving up.
Once Paul actually saw and came to know Jesus Christ he CHANGED and all the beatings, turmoil, people hating him, etc... did not change him after he was truely born-again. Until you go through the birthing process and seek to know God with ALL your heart. (this is a full time task and not just a one time study of the bible.) You will never finish the birthing cycle and become born-again. Knowing about Jesus is not being born-again. Being born again changes your life and you KNOW without a doubt that you are saved and you know Jesus.
No ritual, walking down the isle will save you. You must be born-again. This means you give up your life to God and die to self. Then you are born-again a second time to spend eterinity with the King of Kings - Jesus Christ. You know Him and know what He did for you on the cross. You know His voice. He is your first love. Nothing can make you doubt Him. Satan can not touch you because Satan can only touch the flesh, but not your soul. That is why the body is left here when you die and your soul goes on to be with Jesus. Once you are born-again Satan can not touch your soul to harm you because you are born-again and Jesus owns your soul. He may touch your body but He can never touch your soul again. That is how born-again believers can be content no matter what situation they are in. But until you are actually born-again you will waver back and forth because you don't really know Jesus. That is my point.
::::::::::::::::
Did you do the things I ask like going to the below links and studying them:
http://www.theschoolofchrist.net/
and listening to:
http://heargoodnews.org/mp3/Tony_Evans/confidence_Tony_Evans.m3u
Click here to listen
If not you don't want to know the truth, you just want to continue doubting.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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J4Jesus
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posted
good call Dave but the Truth doesn't bother me, i don't know what you're point is.
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Bottom line more matter what you beleive....
only those that finish the race will be saved!
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Col 1:23=25
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Salvation in the Bible is dependant upon our faithfulness and obedience to God.
Philippians 3
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by J4Jesus:
Um Thanks but i'm already there man.
I'm looking for people who are Knowledgeable to look at these people and tell me what they see.
Please stay on topic.
I am staying on the topic, THANK YOU!
If you don't want to know the truth. No one can force you. But I will speak as I please.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Primoa1970:
This sort of goes hand in hand with what I posted earlier today...... "Justified anger?"
This is an unregenerated person we are dealing with and I pray that God will save him like He saved us. He may seem to have all of the head knowledge....and all of the Theological knowledge....but without the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) he will never accept the fact that he is a sinner in need of a Savior....and that Christ is the only way to Heaven.
Exactly. Theres going to be ALOT of religious people in hell. Theres going to be alot of people in hell that know the Bible. Alot of them go to church every Sunday.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Primoa1970
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This sort of goes hand in hand with what I posted earlier today...... "Justified anger?"
This is an unregenerated person we are dealing with and I pray that God will save him like He saved us. He may seem to have all of the head knowledge....and all of the Theological knowledge....but without the sealing of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) he will never accept the fact that he is a sinner in need of a Savior....and that Christ is the only way to Heaven.
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1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by freddy05:
I see many of the authors anti-Christian beliefs rooted in his psycological reaction to fundamentalist teachings and his upbringing.
I'm not sure I read the same root to his problem from that story, but I agree that the web site is an interesting read and worth spending a few minutes looking through.
He is clearly an articulate and intelligent person and neatly sets out some of the arguments people make when you are talking about christianity with them - if we want to talk to people about christianity, it helps having some knowledge of viewpoints they may hold.
Of course, whether you think he was never really saved or has strayed from the path touches on a deeper idea covered in other threads.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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freddy05
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Member # 5854
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posted
J4Jesus:
I find that story and website interesting. As in any conversion, there is never just one factor involved but a series. Growing up in America (more so in white middle or upper class) puts you at a huge advantage in terms of choosing Christianity. Just like growing up in Saudi Arabia will give you a huge advantage towards choosing Islam. A common testimony I hear is "I grew up in the church, but it wasn´t until I was 15 that I made the decision for Christ on my own..." While that testimony may be true, it should also be said that their decision wasn´t made in a vaccum. The pressure to accept Christ in a Christian fundamentalist family or community is heavy. No one is going to burn you at the stake if you reject Christianity these days, but you may be treated differently as a result of your decision, which I think is sad.
When I had a discussion with my grandparents (conservative baptist) about how I do not believe the rapture will happen as the modern American evangelical church believes it will, a wall in our relationship was put up that still hasn´t come completely down. We never disagreed on anything in regards to Christ´s death, resurrection, salvation etc... but their minds are so entrenched in the ideology of the evangelical movement, that they can´t bring themselves to believe I can possilby saved.
I guess my point in all of this is, that a good close reading of the website you posted is a good healthy read for any Christian. It should not threaten anyone´s faith, and should help to open our eyes to the most common problems people have with the idea of faith in Jesus. I see many of the authors anti-Christian beliefs rooted in his psycological reaction to fundamentalist teachings and his upbringing.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2006
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J4Jesus
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Um Thanks but i'm already there man.
I'm looking for people who are Knowledgeable to look at these people and tell me what they see.
Please stay on topic.
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KnowHim
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posted
You will never know true peace until you come to know Jesus Christ and give your life to Him. It is not about you, but about you giving your life to Jesus. Meaning it will then be about Him and and not you.
You need to go through this free online course:
http://www.theschoolofchrist.net/
He must increase, but I must decrease. John 3:30
Until you get this concept, you will alway be confused. It is not about heaven or hell, it is about Jesus. It is not about you, it is about Jesus. It is not about church, it is about Jesus.
It is all about Jesus. When you get to know Him everything will fall in place and you will start to understand. But you must diligently seek Him and get to know Him. This is not just some ritual walking down the isle and saying some traditional saying, or getting baptized. It is about being born-again. Self dies, and then you begin a new life knowing and loving Jesus. When this happens you will know. If it has not happened, you show seek Jesus until it does and it will set you free from the bondage of this world.
Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
I think the below message may help you understand more if you listen to it wanting to know more:
http://heargoodnews.org/mp3/Tony_Evans/confidence_Tony_Evans.m3u
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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J4Jesus
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what about this person:
I was “saved” at 20 years old, at a time when it seemed my life was crashing down around me. I was still in college, in a troubled marriage with a child on the way, and I was drinking too much. With all the pressure on me, the promise of a light burden and an easy yoke sounded pretty good, and for a while it was. I can’t deny that my conversion changed a lot of things for the better. I stopped drinking… except for a few times of “backsliding.” My family situation improved. I was a super strict fundamental Baptist. King James Version only, hell and brimstone, passing out tracts, attending every service (I even missed my college graduation because the heathens at UCLA had it on a Sunday!)
At some point, doubts started creeping up. Why couldn’t I get the victory over certain sins? I struggled, and prayed, and cried, and prayed some more, and it seems like I was just getting worse. The thoughts that I was having were worse than before I was “saved.” I think that concentrating on getting rid of them just drove me crazy and made my thoughts much darker than ever. I was literally driving myself crazy with the commandment about lust. If I lust after a woman and lust equals adultery, and adulterers are on the list of those who won’t inherit the kingdom of God, then I can’t be saved, right? It’s right there in the book! Then there was the whole question about how to be saved. There are so many opinions within Christianity on this most basic doctrine! Of course, I dismissed other Christian sects as unbelievers, so anyone who didn’t agree with my group’s definition of how to be saved didn’t have the guiding of the Holy Spirit and therefore knew nothing about the Bible, so I could dismiss their views, but even within my very narrow, KJV-only, independent fundamental Baptist group, there was disagreement! How can this be since Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth? Some said you had to repent. Others said repentance was a work, you just had to believe. And you know what I found? They were both right. How the hell are you supposed to tell when the Bible says one thing in one place and another thing somewhere else? I asked my pastor (a great guy and a good friend of mine) and he said all the different explanations are just because salvation is such an intricate, complex thing that words can’t fully express what happens when you’re saved. I’ve heard that if you can’t explain a complex subject in simple language, then you don’t really understand it yourself. So does that mean God himself doesn’t really understand salvation?
Another issue was the antisocial aspect of Christianity. The belief that your co-workers, relatives, and random people walking down the street are all going to hell does something to you. At least, it did to me. I can't even explain it all, it just deeply affected me in an extremely negative way. I'm no psychiatrist (though I probably need one now) but combine this with the whole flesh vs. the spirit thing and I literally felt like I had multiple psychoses, including a split personality disorder.
Then there was the concept of hell. I passed out tracts and witnessed via e-mail and the internet a lot, but looking back on it, I realize that I could never bring myself to tell a person face to face that they deserve to go to hell. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without blushing. I would sometimes think about my grandpa who died when I was a boy. Did I really believe that he was suffering in hell? My resolve would sometimes strengthen and I would tell myself that he had his chance and was getting what he deserved, but I couldn’t convince myself. I also asked my pastor about it, and his explanation was that he doesn’t understand the concept of hell either, but that if we could see sin from God’s perspective we would realize how bad it is and why people deserve hell. If that’s true, I don’t want to see it from God’s perspective! I remember thinking that God needs to get over himself, he’s taking this waaaay to seriously. Of course if you dismiss hell you have to dismiss the Bible, or at least the New Testament, because it’s everywhere.
All of this put me on the verge of giving up my faith about a year ago, but those passages in Hebrews 6 and 10 kept me hanging on a little while longer. I was terrified at the thought of hell. Of course, those in my fundy camp would say you can’t lose your salvation, but Hebrews 6 says, oh yes you can! I also asked my pastor about this, and he said he didn’t know who Hebrews 6 was talking about, but he was sure it wasn’t me. I’ve never heard anyone in the “once saved always saved” camp be able to explain this passage. Not one.
In the last year, I’ve prayed but despite honest, believing prayers for wisdom and understanding, I never got peace about any of this. So **** it, I give up. Sorry for the gratuitous expletive, but I’ve got 10 years of swearing to make up for.
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KnowHim
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After reading some of the website, it sure looks like this person never came to know Jesus Christ. Being born-again means that you have given up this life and you now live for the Lord Jesus. You have changed. His writing shows that he was very religious, and it sounds like he is the product of the modern day gospel.
He states, “My journey through Christianity and into atheistic free thought was a journey of finding myself, and now I can say with great confidence that I have.” He was not looking to give his life over to Jesus Christ but to improve his own life. That is what the modern day gospel teaches.
Now listen to what the modern gospel says. It says, "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ. He’ll give you love, joy, peace, fulfillment, and lasting happiness." In other words, "Jesus will improve your flight." So the sinner responds, and in an experimental fashion, puts on the Savior to see if the claims are true. And what does he get? The promised temptation, tribulation, and persecution. The other passengers mock him. So what does he do? He takes off the Lord Jesus Christ, he’s offended for the word’s sake (Mark 4:17), he’s disillusioned and somewhat embittered, and quite rightly so. He was promised peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness, and all he got were trials and humiliation. His bitterness is directed toward those who gave him the so-called "good news". His latter end becomes worse than the first: another inoculated and bitter backslider.
Click here to read more about the modern day gospel.
This person is a good example of what happens if you don't come to know Jesus personally. If you only try religion you will come up empty and go back to the way your were, or worse.
Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”
- 2 Peter 2:22 (NIV)
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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Hi, J4Jesus, I think that anybody who deconverts from Christianity never had a good view of thee living Jesus as coming King of the earth. This Jesus fellow King of the earth is someone to be afraid of.
In Esther, if the king held out a golden sceptre to a supplicant who had come into the king's room without being asked by the king, if the king held out his golden sceptre...he was spared.
Anyone who deconverts is in danger of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't deconvert. He's definitely coming. Be veru scared of this Coming King of Israel.
"Kiss the Son, lest He be angry with you." Psalm 2
Be blessed.
Eden
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Caretaker
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1) One should note that he was Church of Christ, which is very legalistic, ie. Baptism necessary for salvation, etc.
2) He had all the mind knowledge and all the answers but he had stones in his heart which kept the Gospel from taking root and producing the faith which endures. Great pride in his mind and mental capacities, but his heart was closed and devoid of Christ.
3) His example shows how one can sit in a pew, even fill a pulpit for decades and never truly have the deep and abiding heart faith which saves.
It is a very sad commentary.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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