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Author
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Topic: Temple of Herod
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
I don't know what the actual %'s are on "who took the ark", but of people I have talked to and/or had Bible study with myself;
less than 10% think any enemy of Israel/Judah got the ark for "melt down";
around 65% think the priesthood hid it or secretly took it elsewhere;
about 25% think GOD took it.
I'm with the 25%, and think John saw the ark where GOD has it -
Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
11:19 could also be speaking of John seeing the actual cherubim, the throne/Mercy seat, and the Lamb himself.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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I haven't given it much thought, but if the Babylonians took the ark of the covenant, which usually would have been stored in a treasury of the Babylonian gods, it would seem that such an important temple item as the ark of the covenant would also have been given back to Zerubbabel.
Nor is it mentioned, to my knowledge, anywhere in scripture that anyone ever took the ark of the covenant, is there?
If I remember correctly, the Assyrians also sacked Jerusalem, and the ark of the covenant had a lot of gold on it--I think the lid was pure gold and the cherubim on it were pure gold.
Melt down!
But it is curious that the taking of the ark of the covenant is never mentioned in the Bible, unless the Israelites themselves didn't know what happened to their ark, and God did not tell them.
Eden
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Thunderz7
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quote:
Eden: Okay, no Jer.3:16. Which scripture would you like to quote in its place?
My statement was not that I wanted another scripture, but that by the fact of using that scripture, you put a different perspective and timeline on it, and it has thus taken the focus off the real question I was asking.
I choose Jer.3:16 because myself and many others see it as truth in the perspective I used it.
I have no wish to replace it.
Many scriptures apply to more than one point in time.
quote:
Eden: The above is of course entirely premised on the ark being gone at and after the Babylonian sacking of Jerusalem, isnt' it?
If you can give evidence that the ark was still in possession of the prisethood with their return from Babylon, that would give answer to the question that caused me to start this thread, and prove near all Bible history experts wrong.
(not that "they" aren't wrong about a lot of things) ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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Thunderz7: Eden, I see the truth in the perspective you are using.
I probably should not even have used the Jer.3:16 scripture in the thread, as it seems to already taken the focus from my main question.
Eden: Okay, no Jer.3:16. Which scripture would you like to quote in its place?
Thunderz7: Still, from the destruction of Solomon's temple, in Jeremiah's time, there is the missing Ark of the Covenant.
Eden: On what bit of historical information are you basing that the ark was taken in the Babylonian raid or destroyed in the Babylonian fire of Jerusalem?
Don't mind me, I like your Topic question.
Thunderz7: When the temple was rebuilt, and there was no Ark of the Covenant to put in the Holy of Holies; did all of the people know there was no ark?
Was the knowledge of the missing ark kept by just a few high ranking officials?
Who knew and who didn't?
Eden: The above is of course entirely premised on the ark being gone at and after the Babylonian sacking of Jerusalem, isnt' it?
Be blessed,
Eden
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Thunderz7
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Eden, I see the truth in the perspective you are using.
I probably should not even have used the Jer.3:16 scripture in the thread, as it seems to already taken the focus from my main question.
Still, from the destruction of Solomon's temple, in Jeremiah's time, there is the missing Ark of the Covenant.
When the temple was rebuilt, and there was no Ark of the Covenant to put in the Holy of Holies;
did all of the people know there was no ark?
Was the knowledge of the missing ark kept by just a few high ranking officials?
Who knew and who didn't?
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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Thunderz7
You quote Jeremiah 3:16, and proceed to say that this referred to the post-Babylon church so that when the veil was rent in Jesus's time, the Jews should have been able to see that there was no ark in the Holy of Holies.
But it appears that the section of Jeremiah 3:11-17 is about the time when the Lord Jesus reigns from Jerusalem over the earth already, when Jerusalem shall be called "the throne of the LORD":
Jeremiah 3
14Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.
17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
18In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
19But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.
So God is simply saying, "hey, then you won't be doing any ark of the covenant stuff anymore" when I give you an inheritance among the nations, when the LORD Is There.
So Jeremiah 3:11-19 is not about the period from Babylon to the rent veil of the temple of Herod, but is about the Jerusalem is the City of the Great King period when they "won't be doing any of that old stuff anymore".
Eden
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Thunderz7
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We know that when Judah was taken captive to Babylon,
the Temple of Solomon was destroyed,
and the Ark of the Covenant was seen no more;
just as Jeremiah had prophesied.
Jer.3:16 - And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.
With the return from Babylon a new temple was built,
with the same pattern,
outter court, inner court, Holy of Holies;
but the new temple had no Ark of the Covenant,
no presence of GOD.
Yet the high priest still went behind the veil once a year.
My question is;
at the time Jesus walked the earth and the Temple of Herod stood in Jerusalem;
did the common people know there was no Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies?
Had the people been deceived by the priesthood about the Ark since the return from babylon?
When Jesus died on the cross and the veil was rent in the temple;
with all the other things this symbolized;
did it expose to the common man the fact of a deception?
If you know the answer to this or where I might look to find such info please let me know.
thanks and be blessed in Jesus
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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