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Topic: Reasons to Leave, Reasons to Stay
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KnowHim
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posted
John 6:68-69 (NIV)
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”
I believe Peter knew the answer. He had given his entire life over to following Jesus. So much so that there was no place else to turn but to Jesus. Jesus is the ONLY ONE that had the answer to eternal life. So in order to help others we must first and far most give our entire life over to Jesus. This means you are born-again and there is no turning back. You have found the answers to life.
So if you want to help people, you must be sold out to Jesus. Live like you are sold out to Jesus and know that HE IS THE ONLY WAY. To help others they MUST find and come to know Jesus. If you only help them with their physical needs and do not point them to Jesus you have only helped them continue living without Jesus. People can tell if you are sold out to Jesus. (You live like it, you produce Godly fruit.)
When you are sold out to Jesus, you will take others problems before the throne of God and lift them up to Him. Pleading that they come to know Him. That is how we can help others, we must interceded for them when they are weak, or new in the faith.
So when we come to the point that Jesus is our life, we will have no other place to go. Then you shall know you are truly born-again.
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. ~ Luke 9:62
Plow on, plow on...
David
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PapaJim
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posted
Thank you,lonlesol. I am humbled. I pray that my words here are never from me but that I am but a vehicle used by my Lord to love, guide, and comfort others.
I came here also to learn so pray that, as I serve, I am blessed with wisdom gleaned from this forum.
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May God bless your day abundantly and your joy be eternal
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lonlesol
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quote:
As far as being "qualified" to help, I am qualified through my Lord Jesus to offer solace and support in all areas and direction in the areas of concern that I have been trapped and, by the grace of God, escaped. For those areas in which I have no experience, it is my duty to offer love and support while I help my brother or sister search for "qualified" help.
You have explained it so much better than I ever could PapaJim...Thank you!... ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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PapaJim
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posted
Perhaps I am naive in my walk but I read that dissertation with a joy overflowing from my heart and spilling from my eyes as tears.
Perhaps I am blinded by my love for Christ and His Love for me but I saw nothing but the love we as brothers and sisters in Christ should have for each other.
As far as being "qualified" to help, I am qualified through my Lord Jesus to offer solace and support in all areas and direction in the areas of concern that I have been trapped and, by the grace of God, escaped. For those areas in which I have no experience, it is my duty to offer love and support while I help my brother or sister search for "qualified" help.
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lonlesol
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quote:
So who is qualified in your help group to handle THOSE kinds of issues, other than praying for their specific prayer requests, but then it is more of a prayer group, than a direct help group.
Eden...I would say that anyone that has gone through these kinds of problems and has found a way out by trusting God and the Scriptures in the Bible would be qualified enough to help in some way I suppose...about half the group has gone through what I am now going through myself, and listening to their different stories does help, I can learn from their experiences...(I am sorry, my English isn't very good, I am having a hard time to explain it better)...
maybe the group I joined in my Church isn't quite the same as what David posted but some of that sermon text has struck a cord for me...
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Eden
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posted
oh, I see, lonlesol. So who is qualified in your help group to handle THOSE kinds of issues, other than praying for their specific prayer requests, but then it is more of a prayer group, than a direct help group.
Anyway, be blessed.
Eden
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lonlesol
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helping each other with each other's problems (mostly physical problems, like I need my light fixed in the bathroom, or can you relieve me for one day with the kids, or whatever, right?
I wasn't quite talking about those kinds of problems Eden...the problems I was refering to can be much more profound than needing to fix a light in the bathroom...but I can see your point...
I was refering to people being attacked spiritually by unsaved people for instance or people having all sorts of addictions like drug problems, or drinking problems, or depression, or illness, or facing a divorce, or having anger problems, or having problems with their kids, etc etc etc...
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Eden
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Hi, lonlesol, I have always liked the below idea as something that really would attract people to the Church; helping each other with each other's problems (mostly physical problems, like I need my light fixed in the bathroom, or can you relieve me for one day with the kids, or whatever, right?
helping one another to deal with our problems
One thing that I love about the God of Israel is that He likes to help, Amen?
Be blessed, lonlesol.
Eden
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lonlesol
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I am now part of a group called ''Restored Christians'' from my Church that does exactly what this article says, helping one another to deal with our problems, whatever they may be, based on the same 12 steps method as the Alcololics Anonymous group but ours is adapted for Christians with Scriptures which helps us understand God's Word better and helps us heal and grow in our faith. It is a Bible Study class that we go to once a week.
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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lonlesol
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quote:
Just wondering what your thoughs are about this message. Do you think at the end he is pointing people to the church instead of Jesus, or just telling them they will help them with their walk with Jesus?
I really hope that they are just telling them they will help them with their walk with Jesus...that is how I felt by reading it...I did not read it as though they meant by staying in their particular Church or not, but rather to keep on following Jesus no matter what...sometimes I do have fears and doubts myself because of things that keep happening in my life in the last three months, enough to make anyone want to quit but I don't and I won't!...
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KnowHim
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posted
Reasons to Leave, Reasons to Stay
Sermon Text(s): John 6:56-69
A woman came to talk to me about her son. She sent her oldest off to college in the Fall. When he came back for Christmas Holidays, she tried to get him up on Sunday to attend church with the family. He said, “I’m not going. I don’t need it. I don’t believe that stuff any more.” What can you say? The kid is nineteen years old. He’s been away to school. He’s grown intellectually, physically...that little boy is now 6'2" and has strange hair sprouting from his chin...he carries around a cell phone and car keys and wears a nose ring. He’s studying Aristotle and Freud. Should we be surprised that the faith he relied on when he was twelve no longer carries the weight of a college freshman? How do we help our kids build a framework that will carry them through life?
Our morning scripture from John tells us of a time when people bailed out of the Jesus Movement. Jesus had been talking to Jewish religious leaders. His teaching was tough. We’ve been conditioned by decades of talk around the Lord’s Table, but that wasn’t the case for those Jews who heard Jesus say, Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats me will live because of me. Eat his flesh? Drink his blood? The Jews had never heard anyone talk like this, and it sounded horrible to them.
The disillusionment spread to Jesus’ own disciples, who started muttering to each other, “That’s a tough teaching...who can accept it?” Jesus said, ‘Does this offend you? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? “Ascending to where he was before?” Perhaps some of them thought, “This guy is nuttier than Tom Cruise.” For some, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Suddenly, home seemed to be the better option. Jesus said: “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But among you there are some who do not believe.”
It wasn’t hard to pick out the ones who were finished. They were the ones who picked up their bags, slung a blanket over their shoulders, and with bowed heads they simply walked away. I wonder if the disciples felt like the deck crew of the Titanic... watching people get on the lifeboats as the deck began to tilt? Because of this many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him. ”
Have you known people who walked away...just like that? Have you known someone who at one time really believed, someone who walked with God...someone who prayed, served, loved Jesus...but something changed...something snapped...something died inside them? Have you known someone who turned their back on the Church, on the congregation, on Jesus...people who no longer go about with Jesus?
What are some of the reasons people leave? Sometimes people begin to follow Jesus, or join a congregation when they’re on a real spiritual high. Maybe they’ve just gone to camp or to a retreat, or maybe Jesus has filled a huge void in their lives and they get it. They follow Jesus enthusiastically. But as weeks and months pass, the spiritual high wears off. All the problems don’t go away. Church seems kind of boring. They reach a stage where they’re no longer trying anymore...and they just...drift...away.
Some people leave because Jesus’ gospel is hard...it makes demands on our lives that are hard to face...God wants your time, your attention, your family, your money, your mind, your body... Some folks realize you can’t be a free agent and still follow Jesus...some can’t stick with the program...it’s just too hard. Some find Jesus’ words really hard to swallow...like the disciples of today’s story. “Eat your flesh? Drink your blood?” “Man, I don’t know about this.” “Love my enemy, pray for those who abuse me? I am the way, the truth, the life...no one comes to the father but through me? Love you more than my father and mother? Those are tough teachings...they’re so exclusive. I don’t know if I can hang with it. A young man came through Milligan a few years back...a Bible major...he went to Emmanuel too. Over time, he came to the conclusion that the Jesus path is just too exclusive...too intolerant. He turned his back on it. As far as I know, he’s still walking away.
Some people leave Christianity because of Christians. They become disappointed with shallow believers or get mad when they encounter hypocrisy. Sometimes they are hurt or burned by a fellow believer. Sometimes they feel constrained by one church or another’s interpretation of the way things are...and they start looking for the door. If I had a quarter for every time I heard someone say, “I used to be a real faithful churchgoer...I sang in the choir, taught Sunday School...then so-and-so did this-or-that to me and I decided, ‘If that’s the way Christians are...I don’t need it. So now I just worship Jesus on the back of my 38 foot cabin cruiser. “Nearer my God to Thee.” Sometimes their flight almost makes sense: My father, the super Christian, was something altogether different at home...I heard one say.
Some people walk away from Jesus because they’re disappointed in God...Why did you allow my sister to die? Why do you let people suffer so? Why did you do this to me? I remember Robert Shields talking about students who were mad at God and decided to punish him by not believing in him.
And some folks flame out of discipleship due to old fashioned sin. “Demas, who loved the world, has left me,” wrote Paul. I got a call Friday night from my pastor, the minister of my home church in Indiana. “Whatever happened to Pastor Bill?” I asked...who ministered just the next town over before he left his sick wife and two kids to find sexual fulfillment elsewhere. “Whatever happened to Pastor Pete?” I asked...the guy who ministered at my home church before he spectacularly flamed out is a morass of sin. Sin still takes the lion’s share.
“...many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him. So Jesus asked the twelve, ‘You don’t also want to go away, do you?’ Can we begin to imagine how disappointed Jesus was? After displaying incredible miraculous power...healing the sick, feeding thousands, having large groups hang on his every word. Now when the stakes get a little higher...when the teaching gets a little tougher...it all begins to unravel. Even the Son of God can’t command faith. Even the Son of God can’t satisfy man’s incessant need for the right kind of answers. Can it be that even the Son of God can’t raise up a group of followers who will stick with him no matter what?
“What about you? You’ve just watched your friends...your neighbors...walk away. You know right where the door is. You don’t also want to go away, do you?” I wonder if a long, uncomfortable silence fell upon the apostles? I wonder if the whole history of Christ’s mission hung on this single question. “What about you...do you want out?”
Have you ever hung over that divide? Have you ever teetered over that ledge? Have you ever struggled to believe? Been disappointed with other so-called Christians, disappointed with yourself, disappointed with God? Have you ever thought that maybe it would be better to just give up? ‘You don’t also want to go away, do you?’ Simon Peter answered him, ‘Lord, to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.’
We know all the reasons people go. But why do people stay? What makes people hang in there for the long haul? We don’t know all the reasons the disciples joined up in the first place...maybe some of them were just happy to be chosen, to be singled out. Perhaps some joined for the adventure. It is thought that some of them joined because they expected Jesus to lead a rebellion and they wanted a piece of the action. Maybe some joined because of some crazy “Just As I Am” moment...they got carried away at the altar...I don’t know why they joined, but I do know why the disciples stayed.
‘Lord, to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.’ Jesus...They stayed because of Jesus. They stayed because they had come to believe his words, even if they couldn’t for the life of them figure out what those words meant. They stayed because of the look in his eyes when he took the leper’s hand. They stayed because of his laugh when he pulled children onto his lap. They stayed because even when he harassed them for their unbelieving hard hearts, they knew he loved them. They stayed because of the way he scribbled in the dirt when the Pharisees were ready to kill the woman caught in the act of adultery. They stayed because they believed he was who he said he was...the Holy One of Israel. They looked into his eyes and they trusted him with their very lives.
If you’re a Christian today because the gospel message makes sense...if you’re in the faith because you think this is the way to get your prayers answered...if you’re a believer because you’re counting on Jesus to give you relief from your pain...fine...hang with it as long as you can. But I probably ought to warn you that there will come a time when this message will no longer make any sense at all...there will come a time when this faith will constrain you and hem you in and make you mad and frustrate you to no end.. There will come a time when your prayers will bounce off the ceiling and there might even come a time when Jesus is the chief source of your discomfort and pain. And when that time comes, you’re going to wonder what in the world you’ve gotten yourself into.
But if you’re here this morning even though this discipleship business is hard work...If you’re here this morning with your faith hanging by a thread...If you’re sticking with Jesus even though it takes all the faith and discipline you can muster...only because you have found Jesus to be the most interesting, wisest, compelling, infuriating, giving, and demanding individual that you have ever met...you just might be on the right track. Jesus is the very center of our faith. Jesus is our pole star. Jesus is true north. If Jesus is not the Lord and Center of our lives, this gathering is just one more club or social organization. If our love for Jesus doesn’t compel us to stay, we will never hang with this journey to which he has called us. Why do we stay? We stay because of Jesus. We have come to believe that he is the Lord of the Universe. We have come to believe that He is God. And so we listen...and obey...and so we stay.
There’s one other interesting hint given as to why the disciples stayed. ‘Lord, to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.’ We know the disciples stayed...but notice it was Peter who spoke for them...Peter who voiced their thoughts. They stayed because they had become a group...a “we.” They stayed because they had become a family. Peter showed that individually we are untrustworthy and weak-willed, wavering and double minded. But together we can make the hard choices for Christ.
The devil loves to separate us from one another. He wants to get us off alone, where he can overwhelm us with our own problems, fears, doubts. But if “I” becomes “we,” then we become strong. Sometimes it’s hard for me to believe. Sometimes I get down. Sometimes you doubt. Sometimes you don’t have faith. When those doubts and fears assail, let the group that is Hopwood carry you for a while. Let us stay together, following Jesus. Let us carry your doubt, your unbelief, your sinfulness, your lack of faith. Let us believe for you, let us answer for you, until you get your legs under you. Then when you’re strong enough, perhaps you will one day carry us.
I don’t know what brought you to the Lord, but I know what can make you stay. We stay because of Jesus...the most amazing person who has ever lived. We don’t always understand him...we don’t always even agree with him...but He has words of eternal life. And we don’t find that anywhere else. Hang onto Jesus. Keep your eyes upon him.
And we stay because of each other. In you I see the life of Jesus lived out. In you I find what I want to be. If you’re tired, and weak, and doubting and cynical...Hang onto us as we follow Jesus...we won’t let go.
Click below to listen to this message:
http://heargoodnews.com/members/html/modules/mylinks/visit.php?lid=517
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Just wondering what your thoughs are about this message. Do you think at the end he is pointing people to the church instead of Jesus, or just telling them they will help them with their walk with Jesus?
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