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Topic: An American Christmas
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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
alcohol use % at christmass
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4031595.stm
David, Betty,ahar
I do understand moderation in all things and that I may have freedom to do certain things that may not be "sin" but
I believe my last statement was:
>>> Personnally I think it is best to just leave it alone...
Same with all sin, alcohol, drugs, abortion, murder, adultery, stealing, taking God's name in vain, breaking the ten commandment, being a Pastor and buying meth, etc.... they are all sin and yes it will KILL you and it is wrong and I am sure it does not bring glory to our Lord Jesus Christ. I agree with you, we should not do it. BUT we do.... May we all draw closer to Jesus Christ and keep our eyes on Him for He is the only one that can help us to do what is right.
I guess the worse thing someone can do in my opinion is act like they are holy and put on a mask acting like they are perfect and do the above and hope no one finds out. If you are not perfect please don't put on airs that you are. I know for one I am a sinner, but I do the best I can to serve the Lord Jesus Christ and repent when I have done something I should not do. Trying to hid it hoping it will go away does not please God because He knows!
"We mold our faces to fit our masks." - John Eldridge
"Half the work that is done in the world is to make things appear what they are not." - E.R. Beadle (1812-1879)
The Holy Bible, King James Version
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:14 through Romans 7:25 (KJV)
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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alcohol use % at christmass
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4031595.stm
David, Betty,ahar
I do understand moderation in all things and that I may have freedom to do certain things that may not be "sin" but
the Scripture in Proverbs 20:1 says, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." We are called upon in Scripture to be wise, not in our own eyes, but to follow the wisdom of the Lord. If God only gave one warning against alcoholic beverages, and this were it, I would think He would want us to refrain from even the temptation of having it in our midst as a beverage. If it is that much of a deceiver, we should be wary of it and its presence.
What of young people that are easily influenced by older "roll models?" I would hate for a young person in my church to be influenced to drink alcohol by my single use of it as a beverage. The late Dr. Adrian Rogers, former Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN, said this alone should be a good enough reason to prevent any adult from drinking alcohol as a beverage. If anything I do causes one of these little ones to be offended (caused to stumble), it were better for me that a millstone were hanged around my neck and I be cast into the sea.
We have about 5 ½ million alcoholics in this country today, and we will bury about 350,000 of them before the year is out. Alcoholism is the number one social problem in the United States and the number three public health problem. If all the doctors in the country did nothing but treat alcoholics, there wouldn’t be enough doctors to go around.
Did you know that there are about 1,200 persons being added to this list every day? That means 50 persons every hour. Sounds incredible, doesn’t it? Nevertheless it is true, horribly true! Chances are 50-50 that within the next five years you will find a member of your family or a near relative added to the list of victims.
Did you know that since this time yesterday 33 persons have been killed in alcoholic-involved accidents? At least one in every three fatal accidents involves a drinking driver, we are not talking about the sodden character who creeps along hugging the side of the road for fear of hitting someone. We are talking about the social drinker. The social drinker is the greatest traffic hazard. You may agree with me mildly or disagree with me violently. It really doesn’t matter. It is still true. If we could get the drinking driver off the highway, we might save up to 15,000 lives a year.
A careful examination of the Bible will reveal more Scripture against drinking than on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, stealing, Sabbath-breaking, cheating, hypocrisy, pride or even blasphemy! The church and the minister have the authority from the example of Scripture to speak out decidedly. Unfortunately there are Christians who argue that the Bible itself, although clearly condemning drunkenness, does not forbid drinking if done moderately. The question is; "Is this a legitimate argument?" That the Bible speaks favorably of "Wine" cannot be doubted. For instance, Psalm 104:15 refers to "wine that maketh glad the heart of man. . ." Zechariah 9:17 tells us that "corn shall make the young men cheerful and new wine the young maids." But on the other hand it speaks about wine quite unfavorably to the point of condemnation. For instance, in Proverbs 20:1—"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 23:31, 32: "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder." There certainly is no moderation in these texts.
Now the question that comes to us is, "How can it be possible for anything to be both very good and very bad?" it doesn’t seem logical. It isn’t logical. Can the Bible then be that inconsistent? The answer is No, of course. Then what do we do with these two divergent attitudes toward the use of wine? We investigate them. When we investigate them we discover first of all that when the Bible was first written, it was written in principally two different languages. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek. Our English Bible was translated from these two languages. Now when we read our English Bible and we come to the word wine, we immediately see in that word fermentation. We believe it to be fermented wine. This is the meaning that we attach to the word wine. However, in the languages from which we translated our Bible, we are dealing with three main words that are translated "wine." In the Old Testament Hebrew we have two words, "Tirosh" and "Yayin." Let us look at these two words first.
The word "tirosh" occurs about 38 times and is translated literally "must," fresh or new wine by Brown, Driver and Briggs Hebrew Lexicon. A glance at the usage of the word will show that it does not refer to a fermented drink. Of the 38 references, 11 speak to wine as a first fruit fresh from the field. In 17 more cases "tirosh" is used in such connections with grain and oil as natural products of the field. That seems to clearly imply fresh wine; that is grape juice.
In Joel 2:24, Hosea 9:2 and Proverbs 3:10 the "tirosh" is said to be filling the presses. Obviously the freshly pressed juice is meant in Isaiah 65:8 as the "tirosh" is pictured as still in the cluster of grapes. Micah 6:15 is clearest of all in mentioning "tirosh" as the material from which fermented wine is formed. "Tirosh" is the specific word for grape juice which is unfermented, a non-intoxicating wine, and is employed 38 times. In the Bible, man’s use of "tirosh" is constantly approved of.
The other word translated "wine" is the word "yayin" which occurs about 140 times. It is a generic term meaning wine in general. In other words, it does not specifically refer to the character of wine. It is whether it is intoxicating or non-intoxicating. It often means fermented wine, but is a general term only. The only way one can know the character "yayin" takes, is by the context in which the word is found. In at least 30 instances "yayin" is definitely associated with drunkenness. In fact, over half of the passages mentioning the word "yayin" in the Old Testament are clearly denunciatory.
The significant thing is that the Old Testament nowhere in its condemnation of wine makes the distinction so popular today between moderate drinking and drunkenness. Do you remember what Solomon said in Proverbs 23:31-32? "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder." The command is clear. Do not drink moderately because it will lead to sin, sorrow and misery. So the conclusion is that the Old Testament uses these two main words for wine, "tirosh" meaning grape juice, a product which is never condemned and frequently commended, and "yayin" meaning wine which is frequently condemned, often associated with drunkenness and never spoken of in any favorable light.
When we turn to the New Testament we are dealing with only one main word, "oinos." Dr. Lyman Abbot, in his "Dictionary of Religious Knowledge," says: "It is tolerably clear that the word wine does not necessarily imply fermented liquor. It signifies only a production of the vine." "Oinos" without qualification can in the New Testament easily mean unfermented wine. In fact, this word was also used to denote various kinds of drinks or confections of other fruits such as date and lotus fruits, according to Lidell and Soctt’s Lexicon, two authorities in the Greek language. Sir Richard Jebb of Cambridge University define "oinos" as a general term which might include all kinds of beverages.
Of course, there are those who hold that there could not have been any unfermented, non-intoxicating "wines" because the ancients knew no process by which to prevent fermentation. However, ancient writers like Aristotle, Cato, Horace, Herodotus, Josephus, Pliny , Plutarch and Xenophon cite at least five processes by which fruits were preserved and fruit juices kept unfermented—by cold, heat, boiling, straining, and chemicals (sulphur), and mention "wines that do not make the heart heavy." These historians show that unfermented drinks were in common use and were designated "the best wines."
It is not realized how widely the natural juice of the vine was used in the classical world. Pliny, Roman historian, speaks of many varieties of sweet wine, raisin wine, with methods of preparation. He says that the "semper mustum, or fresh grape juice, was grape juice put into casks, immediately plunged under water and left until the winter solstice was past and the frosty weather at hand." The great classical authority on agriculture, Columella, writes in Book 12, chapter 29 how to keep grape juice sweet for a year. In the Georgics (1:295) the wife is pictured preparing grape juice against fermentation.
Dr. Lyman Abbot, who by the way was no friend of the anti-alcohol movement, in his "Dictionary of Religious Knowledge", page 573, states: "Fermented wine was the least common (in Biblical times) and the percentage of alcohol was small. New wines were wholly without alcohol and were easily preserved in this condition for several months. There were also wines in which, by boiling or by drugs, the process of fermentation was prevented and alcohol excluded. These were mixed with water and constituted the most common drink of the land."
I cite Pliny again, a Roman author of the time of Christ, in his "Natural History" says that mixing wine with water was practiced in Homer’s day (Book 14, chapter 6) and that in his own day the Greek wines (sold in Rome) contained a portion of water. (Book 14, chapter 23) This dilution was especially common in using grape vinegar. The acid drink was diluted so as to have a mild tartness like our soft drinks and used as the every-day drink of the Roman soldiers. This drink was called "posca." It was, of course, non-alcoholic and was what Christ received from the soldiers who crucified Him. (John 19:30) You may notice that He rejected the wine. (Mark 15:23)
We could go on and on and on citing from ancient history; the evidence is overwhelming, but our time is limited. There is no reason to believe that juices could not be kept unfermented. They were in use as the common drink of the land, while the fermented drinks were not. There are a number of incidents that are appealed to in the New Testament as proof for moderation. We cannot deal with all of them. One of the main ones used is the first miracle of Christ in turning water to wine. We have already discussed the word "wine" as having nothing definite in its meaning as to its character in the New Testament. However, for the sake of the argument there are two or three factors that must be considered.
One is that the account tells us that they brought Him six stone jars, two or three firkins apiece. This unit was almost nine gallons, firkin or metretas. Each pot could hold 16 to 27 gallons. You multiply that by six and you have 108 to 162 gallons. Moderation? In a village like Cana there was enough wine, if fermented, to inebriate the whole town. However, there is something more severe that needs to be considered.
Modern physiological science has made it clear, the contrast between the cup of the Lord and the cup of the devil. The fruit of the vine contains the delicate elements which in our day have been found to be essential for the body’s life and prosperity. Dr. Alfred Pfleiderer in "Atlas Zur Alhokolfrage" gives its general content: 2.8% albumen, 1.2% acids and extractives, 83.7% carbohydrates and 2.3% mineral salts.
Fermentation destroys 98% of the albumen, 47% of the acids and extractives, 98% of the carbohydrates and 76% of the mineral salts. The life is gone. The life of the grape has become a liquid corpse. "The alcohol that remains," says Dr. Dauphin, "is a dehydrant. It paralyzes the sensibility and the contractibility of the living cells. It is a diffusable poison. It passes rapidly into all the organs. It destroys the active and useful elements and develops sclerotic tissue, the mark of old age. It is premature old age, premature decay. Who is willing to accuse Christ of creating a poison? Was His first miracle spent in creating a substance that has cursed men through the ages? He once said: "If a son asks for bread, does the father give him a stone?" No! Neither will he give him poison.
What is the significance of all that we have said? It is this. The Bible cannot be resorted to for permission or proof for moderation. Only a superficial student of Scripture would appeal to it for moderation. We cannot say that the Bible speaks in favor of moderation, especially when we discover the early church’s attitude to the use of fermented wine. For in the New Testament we see a word occurring over and over again, it is the word "sober." The admonition is "Be ye sober." It is the Greek word "nepho" or "nephalios." Its basic and primary meaning is "to abstain from wine." Much more could be said about the word and its usage’s in the New Testament writings, but the lack of time forbids it now. However, Baronius is quoted by Farrar Fenton as saying: "The practice of abstinence was so widespread among the early Christians, and prized so much, that in some places scandal was given if a Christian were seen to depart from it and drink intoxicating wine."
What did Abraham Lincoln say? "Alcohol has many defenders, but no defense." Jesus once said to some people who had become so selfish that they did what they pleased when they pleased with regard to no one: "Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12. A true Christian will do all things in the context of his brother. This is the greatest and most potential argument against alcohol—love for my fellow humans!
The apostle Paul put it this way: "It is good neither to eat flesh, not to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbleth or is offended or is made weak." Romans 14:21. The application of these words is that the Christian is propelled in his dealings of life by love. No matter what you think, or your knowledge may be of things, a true Christian must be mastered by love! And Paul says to put a stumbling block in the way of a weak man is to sin against Christ Himself. Christ died to free him from the evils of life and you as a Christian are placing before him an example that you lead him back into enslavement. A professed Christian who insists on using alcoholic beverages is doing it at the expense of others. He cannot be expected to oppose the evils resulting from its use, for every time he uses it he must say Yes to all the sorrow, misery, death and sin that it produces.
Oh, church of Christ, why do you remain so unconcerned when all about us hear the cry of broken homes and battered lives? Christ said: "Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted up." The time has come to raise the ax of truth and love and strike the roots of evils that have entwined themselves around humanity. Let us heed the words of the prophet Isaiah, "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment; relieve the oppressed; judge the fatherless; plead for the widow."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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Betty,
I do agree with you, that getting drunk is the sin. So if someone can drink in moderation and not get drunk (as long as they are not a preacher or christian leader) I think it is OK for them.
I am sure that some of the Institutional Churches have added what they want about this and say it a sin if you drink anything with alcohol in it.
I guess it is all in how much and where you do it as it could cause others (such as impressionable teens) to sin if they saw you doing it and they went out and got drunk.
Personnally I think it is best to just leave it alone, but that is just my opinion. God knows the heart and I don't.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Jesus turned the water into wine, not grape juice.
the key to drinking or eating is moderation. I rarely drink, mabye once a year, but drinking wine is not a sin. Getting drunk is the sin.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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becauseHElives
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"No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities " (1 Timothy 5:23).
...oinos is used in the Septuagint for both fermented and unfermented grape juice. Since it can mean either one, it is valid to insist that in some cases it may simply mean grape juice and not fermented wine.
...the Roman writer Cato, in his treatise On Agriculture, gave this prescription: "If you wish to keep new wine sweet the whole year round, put new wine in a jar, cover the stopper with pitch, place the jar in a fishpond, take it out after the thirtieth day; you will have sweet wine all the year round." ...
One thing, of course, must be insisted on: Paul was not advocating the general use of wine as a beverage. The most that that can be said is that he was suggesting that Timothy, because of frequent stomach illness, should take "a little wine" as medicine. And the possibility is still open that the apostle referred to unfermented grape juice, which of course is good for a weak stomach.
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html
Do you have stomach problems?
This being the case, you are not drinking for health reasons.
The opposite may as well be the case—drinking can deteriorate your health.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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ahar
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I applaud your cut n paste skills. Truly you are a master of ctrl C ctrl V.
You didn't answer my point though. Just because 'the world' likes something does not automatically mean that it is inherently satanic. TV is another example - it can be used for good or bad, the enthusiasm from non-christians towards it does not preclude us from responsible use of it.
This is not a discussion about the ills or no of alcohol. However, I would respond to say that the bible continually talks about drunkeness but nowhere in scripture does it forbid alcohol. Given just how prescriptive the bible is on other matters, this is not a mistake. Ingesting alcohol is not a sin, otherwise Paul would not have suggested to Timothy to use some to help settle his stomach. If it was, there is no way Paul would have mentioned it.
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Cheers
Andy
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becauseHElives
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The Scriptures Record Tragedies Caused by Alcohol
Although there is disagreement among Bible scholars about the true nature of the drink referred to by the various Hebrew and Greek words for "wine," it is only too evident that some persons in the Old Testament drank fermented wine. Noah, after saving his family from the destruction of the Flood, planted a vineyard, made wine, became intoxicated, and brought disastrous results on himself and his family (Genesis 9:20-27). Noah was no doubt surprised, upon his return to sobriety and clear thinking, to realize his simple act of taking a drink had ended in such shame. The two daughters of Lot made their father drink liquor until he became drunk; then they committed incest with him (Genesis 19:30-38).
Xerxes was powerful. He ruled over a great kingdom and had a beautiful wife. But his foolish action before his drinking guests resulted in the deposition of his queen and the dissolution of their marriage (Esther 1:9-22). Belshazzar, in a state of drunkenness, committed sacrilege with the sacred vessels from the Jewish temple. That very night he was killed as a fulfillment of prophecy (Daniel 5).
Drunkenness, according to Scripture, is a sin. But what about such references in the Old Testament as "wine which cheers" (Judges 9:13) and "wine that makes glad" (Psalm 104:15)? We believe such references are accommodations to human weakness and hardness of heart (cf. Matthew 19:8). The spirit and intent of Scripture emphasize the evil consequences of alcohol.
Scriptural Principles and Examples Recommend Abstinence
Alcohol destroys the body. Even in small amounts it begins its subtle work of destruction, taking its toll on mental and physical reactions. God knew this fact very well when He gave instructions that priests and kings (spiritual and secular leaders) should refrain from any use of alcoholic beverages.
In the Old Testament instruction to the Levites, the spiritual leaders of Israel, priests were commanded to abstain from wine or intoxicating drink when they went into the presence of the Lord to minister (Leviticus 10:8-11). This requirement of abstinence was given so the ministering priest would be able to distinguish between the holy and the unholy, between the clean and the unclean, and so he could be a teacher of all the statutes of God.
Today, all born-again Christians have been made priests to God (1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6). As such we should always give our best and be at our best in His service. We believe the standard of abstinence demanded of the Old Testament priest should be the standard of every Christian today. We too must distinguish between right and wrong. We must be Spirit-led teachers in a society that greatly needs divine instruction and godly example.
Secular leaders are also to abstain from alcohol. "It is not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes intoxicating drink; lest they drink and forget the law, and pervert the justice of all the afflicted" (Proverbs 31:4,5, NKJV). If the prohibition is absolutely essential for spiritual and secular leaders, it is certainly essential for every believer. We who are kings and priests unto God (Revelation 1:6) must live according to His standards.
A Little Alcohol Is Too Much
The Christian who advocates or condones "drinking in moderation" is providing Satan an opening he would not have with an individual committed to total abstinence. By medical definition, alcohol is a drug. The moderate drinker is naive if he does not recognize the peril of eventually becoming addicted himself.
The condition of the drunkard is tragic; and God's Word gives clear warning of the final tragedy. The individual who refuses to have anything to do with such a dangerous taskmaster is wise indeed. No alcoholic ever intended to become an alcoholic when he/she took the first drink. And no individual who persistently refused to take the first drink ever became an alcoholic. The church of Jesus Christ must take a bold stand against this evil that in the end "bites like a serpent, and stings like a viper" (Proverbs 23:32, NKJV).
The effects of alcohol are vividly described in Proverbs 23. There is a physical and emotional impact. "Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaints? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?" (Proverbs 23:29, NKJV). The answer is obvious: "Those who linger long at the wine" (v. 30). But the woe, the sorrow, the contention, the complaints, the injuries, are not reserved for the drunkard in the gutter. They begin all too frequently with the social drink.
Just like every other temptation of Satan, the drinking of alcoholic beverages has its attraction. Hence the warning of Holy Scripture: "Do not look on the wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it swirls around smoothly" (Proverbs 23:31, NKJV). The warning is so strong because the attraction of the temptation soon turns the pleasure seeker into a pathetic embarrassment to the human race: "Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart will utter perverse things" (23:33, NKJV). Even the normal physical protection systems of pain and caution are defeated by alcohol (23:34,35).
"Wine is a mocker, intoxicating drink arouses brawling, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1, NKJV). God's will is for His people to abstain from this deceitful betrayer that mocks and destroys the basic dignity of mankind.
God Calls His People to Holiness
The standard for God's people is no less in the New Testament than in the Old. The Old Testament warnings about the abuses and excesses of alcohol become in the New Testament a call to holy living through the power of the Holy Spirit. Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19). We need to cleanse them from all profane habits, including alcohol. Opening up the human temple to the possible influence and control of alcohol is absolutely contrary to the Biblical admonition to keep those temples filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18). The only safe way is to leave alcoholic beverages alone.
First Timothy 3:3 states that a bishop must be one "not given to wine." A spiritual leader should set the highest example for all Christians to follow. The apostle Paul willingly invited his fellow believers to follow his example, even as he followed the example of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1). A minister who drinks alcohol risks disobedience to the Word of God.
Some well-meaning people have misused the instruction given by Paul to Timothy in 1 Timothy 5. When Paul suggested that Timothy "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses" (5:23, NIV), he was not recommending wine as a social drink. The fact that Paul had to mention the medicinal use of wine indicates rather strongly that Timothy was committed to abstinence as a lifestyle.
The call to holy living and to total abstinence is most appropriate for a Movement that looks with expectation for the soon return of Jesus Christ and the eventual inauguration of His kingdom on earth. Jesus warned His disciples, as well as all who would live between their time and the end time, "Take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life . . . . Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:34, 36, NKJV). As we watch and pray for the return of Jesus, our senses should be as sharp and clear as they can possibly be.
The Use of Alcohol Weakens the Christian's Testimony
The use of alcohol violates some basic principles laid down for all believers, whether minister or laymen. One of these important principles is the Biblical caution not to offend a weaker brother or cause a younger Christian to fall.
The apostle Paul deals with the responsibility of the stronger brother toward the weaker brother in Romans 14. "It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak" (v. 21, NKJV). It takes a stronger act of the will to abstain from the consumption of alcohol than to participate in this social practice of the world. Yet believers who take their Christian responsibility seriously cannot avoid the obvious importance of total abstinence to their Christian testimony.
This truth is especially significant when it is applied to the young people of the world who are turning to alcohol in unprecedented numbers as an acceptable mind-altering drug. They are going beyond moderation, no matter what their parents and elders say. If Christian parents and adults use alcohol even in moderation or just to be socially accepted, the next generation will use it with less care and self-control. The best example our generation can set for the next generation is to practice and teach total abstinence.
Jesus spoke very clearly to the disciples about the responsibility of the older generation to its children and youth: "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones" (Luke 17:1, 2, NKJV). We must not set an example that will send others to hell and destruction.
As believers we must draw a line on the use of alcohol. If we draw the line at the point of moderation, our ministers will soon find it necessary to exhort congregations to forsake drunkenness. If we draw the line at total abstinence, we will save a multitude of young and old from the sin of alcoholism.
Social Drinking Is Satan's Cruel Deception
The term social drinking suggests that the consumption of alcohol in respectable surroundings is in some way different from drinking in other environments. There was a time when it would have been unthinkable that we would have to speak out against social drinking among Christians. The fact that such a problem has grown to the currently distressing proportions shows what a powerful and insidious influence the present age exerts on the church of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit can deliver from the shackles of social drinking, and we plead with all Christians who have fallen into this bondage to cry out for God's help immediately.
Many people who experience psychological problems (and some of them unfortunately are Christians) are tempted to seek an easy solution in "a little bit" of alcohol. But what was used as a supposed cure has caused even greater problems. We are set free through Jesus Christ, not through a drug that dissipates and destroys us when we submit to its influence.
Every one of the 13 million problem drinkers in the United States today started on the road to alcoholism with a social drink or an innocent first taste. Half of the fatal automobile accidents in this country are caused by drinking drivers. According to government estimates, the economic cost of alcoholism--including lost production, automobile accidents, health care, violent crimes, and fire losses--exceeds 100 billion dollars every year. [1] Alcohol is consistently linked to a high percentage of reported murders, assaults, and rapes, as well as to suicide. domestic violence, and child abuse. The role of social drinking as the starting point for much of this abuse can only be estimated.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) is one of the leading causes of mental retardation as a birth defect in the United States. [2] Whatever alcohol the pregnant mother consumes crosses the placenta and enters the bloodstream of the baby. The result too frequently is below-average birth weight and size, deformed and improperly formed joints and limbs, as well as heart defects. We should not be concerned only about the life of the unborn child; the health of the child is important too.
The consumption of alcohol has become a national crisis, tearing at the moral fabric of our nation. Christians cannot meet their moral responsibilities by a posture of neutrality about alcohol. The problem is not merely economic, cultural, or social. In the final analysis, the use of alcohol is a spiritual problem. Alcoholism is sin, not sickness. Its shocking increase is another manifestation of the permissive, lawless spirit produced by the spiritual degeneration so much in evidence today.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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ahar
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
We are commanded in I John 2: 15, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
Jesus said, "That which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God." Luke 16:15.
Jesus said anything which men highly esteem is abomination to God.
Well, don't people esteem Christmas more highly than almost anything else!
I fully agree with you. However, the same can be said of many things that are not inherently sinful. Just because people use and abuse the celebration of christ's birth does not mean that we cannot also celebrate it. Alcohol again provides a good parallel - just because some people abuse it does not mean that we must all become teetotal.
If people got into the habit of picking up the bible and using it to hit others with, would that make the bible sinful?
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Cheers
Andy
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becauseHElives
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We are commanded in I John 2: 15, "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
Jesus said, "That which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God." Luke 16:15.
Jesus said anything which men highly esteem is abomination to God.
Well, don't people esteem Christmas more highly than almost anything else!
The vilest sinner in town will run over you if necessary in order to celebrate Christmas.
If you have any doubts as to whether the world loves Christmas or not, just go into any big department store or dime store during the last few frantic hours of the Christmas shopping season, and see how many people run over you and what a mad house it is. Why, they'll elbow you practically to death. A person must surely be blind it he can't see that the modern day Christmas celebration is of the world.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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ahar
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becauseHeLives:
The world loving something doesn't make it inherently sinful. The 'world' loves alcohol, but drinking alcohol is not sinful. Alcohol, in the proper context (a glass of wine with dinner for example) is perfectly acceptable (I recommend a good Malbec from Norton vineyards in Argentina for red meat ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ).
We can celebrate the birth of Christ, and choose to do it in december. We can choose to use decorations and give presents to mark the occasion and it is not sinful. Where these other things become more important than celebrating the birth of Christ is where sin starts to happen.
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Cheers
Andy
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Gramajo320
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There most assuredly are those Catholics who have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and lives and who follow His teachings and they have complete faith in God's Holy Word, His Holy Bible and they are filled with faith in their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and they pray to Jesus Christ! Jesus blesses them ever so much, He leads them on the path of righteousness, He loves them with a love that knows no bounds, He gives them countless blessings, and they give their Lord and Saviour all of their love, praise, glory, and thanks! No matter what the denomination it's the same for all others who call on Jesus for the scripture says "For whomsoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeith unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 3:17 "For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved!." The scriptures from God's Holy Word in His Holy Bible say it all!
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you."
1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
We will be having a very joyous Jesus centered Merry Christmas celebrating Jesus's birth and giving all praise, love, glory, and thanks for our Lord and Saviour's birth and also for everything He does for all of His children all of the time!!
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I believe the World is attracted to Christmas because of the way people act better at Christmas. Like I said before, people are more apt to donate and be nicer at Christmas. But the world is trying to remove Jesus from Christmas. This is why many Churches fight so hard to keep Christmas about Jesus. Jesus is the reason for the season is on many Church signs to remind people of this.
I do believe that there are Catholics who have accepted Jesus as their Savior. I believe they grew up Catholic and the feel comfortable in their home Churches. There are Preist who love Jesus and teach that Jesus is the son of God, but like you I do not believe we should pray to Saints or to Mary. I have also known Catholics who believe that if they go to Mass every week they can live like they want and go to Heaven. That is so wrong. But then there are people who don't go to Church at all that think they are going to Heaven because they are good people.
Being a good person cannot save you, only giving your heart and life to Jesus can save you.
Merry Christmas.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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becauseHElives
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Gramajo320 and TEXASGRANDMA,
I am sorry we disagree so greatly on the Christmas issue, and I am also sorry I come across so hard on salvation, but these are important issues to me.
I see the apostasy the Church is falling into and I want so to snatch people from the flames of Hell…
Can a Roman Catholic be a Christian? That is Yahweh’s call, not mind or yours.
We only have the scriptures to base our faith on.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39
The Roman Catholic Church preaches an entirely different message, the Pope’s word is put above what scriptures teach and Mary holds an equal place with Yeshua.
Anyone who holds to the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church is on very shaky, unstable ground.
As for your tradition of keeping Christmas that is your choice, I would just like a little scriptural reasoning you base your ability to keep such a defaming practice, and if it is of Yahweh then why does the world have such an attraction to it?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Gramajo320
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Dear Betty, because I know you quite well I completely understand you and within my heart and in my mind I knew you were not judging Catholics and you didn't offend me at all either. So please do not think, worry, or feel you owe me an apology at all because you don't. My mentioning of my daughter was because I want others who put down Catholics to know there are born again believers in Jesus Christ who are Catholics, they follow Jesus's teachings and they pray to Jesus Christ. No matter what denomination we cannot put them all in one box and think they are all the same and within my heart and mind I know that you are not one who does that. Anyway,Betty, your church sounds so very blessed and wonderful! Our church is also and we truly enjoy it so very much and my daughter enjoys her church so very much! You have a very blessed joyous celebration of Jesus's birth and my family and I are going to do the same! Many of God's blessings to you, your husband, your son, your daughter and family and all the rest of your family!
With love,
Joanne (Gramajo320)
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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GramaJo,
I offer you my sincere apology. I in no way meant to imply that Catholics can not be Christians. I honestly believe there are many Catholics that have accepted Jesus as their Savior. Just like there are people there were baptized in the Baptist Church as kids that are not saved, I do believe there are "good" Catholics that are not saved. My point was that everyone who celebrates Christmas is not Catholic. Our Church has an Angel Ministry every Christmas. We invite families in from the community to bring their children for breakfast. They are fed and the children get to make gifts ( some of this kids only gift for their parents will be what they make) for their parents for Christmas. They get their picture taken dressed up as wise men, or Joseph or as Mary to give to their parents, too. They are shared the story of Jesus and how to get saved and become Christians. Last year 300 people were fed. This is just one of the ways our Church uses the Christmas time to reach the lost for Christ.
Again, Gramajo, I am deeply sadden that I came off as judging Christian Catholics. I do believe that there are many deceived by the Catholic Church who think because they were baptized as a baby they are going to Heaven. But there are Christian Catholics, just like there are Christian Baptist. etc.
God bless your GramaJo.
It is not the name on the Church door that saves us but the blood of Jesus Christ.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Gramajo320
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My daughter is most assuredly a born again believer in Jesus Christ as are many many other Catholics who have accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and lives and who follow His teachings and they pray to Jesus Christ and Jesus hears and answers all of their prayers. He also has given them countless blessings, special gifts and also miracles! Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour and He always will be!
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Jesus is the reason for the season giving all praise, love, glory and thanks for Jesus's birth.
I thank the Lord
For sending His Son
To one and all
So His will, will be done
The greatest love
Ever to be seen
Is the Love of Jesus
And the hope He brings
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that ye love
one another, as I have loved you."
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Gramajo320
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TB125
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I have added a page regarding Christmas to my website. It can be seen at http://christianityetc.org/christmas.php It reviews the secular and sacred history of this festival and lets each person make up his/her mind regarding how to participate in this festival. We need to remember that the event is the incarnation of God into human flesh, as described by John in his gospel. Merry Christmas.
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Bob
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becauseHElives
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Gramajo320, maybe your daughter is saved; maybe not only Yahweh can ultimately make that call...
but if your daughter or any other individual puts the Pope or Mary in the co-redemptive office, they are guilty of blasphemy and what ever punishment that carries.
You can’t pray to Mary, she is just another human; she is to be called blessed only for her obedience to the Spirit of Yahweh.
And the Pope, well he is an antichrist, short and simply put.
And as for Christmas, go for it. You and the rest of the world, enjoy your day of pagan origin.
Never seriously look into the historical reasons Christmas exist.
Never question why the world, which hates Yahweh and Yeshua embrace Christmas.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Gramajo320
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My daughter accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Saviour and she is Catholic and there are many many more Catholics who accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. We celebrate Christmas and it's always a Jesus Christ centered celebration. Jesus Christ is the reason for the season and He always will be!!
Now is the time of rejoicing
And praise forever more
To God who gave a precious gift
In the birth of our Lord
We praise Him for His goodness
We thank Him for His life
For Him to give up everything
Cost such a great price
So remember the sacrifice made
In Jesus lowly birth
To reconcile us back to God
And bring peace throughout the earth
John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you."
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Gramajo320
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becauseHElives
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The World Loves Christmas
"[K]now ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (Jas. 4:4). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" (1 John 2:15).
Who leads whom? Is not the church of the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be an example to the world? Is not Christ's church to be salt and light to the nations? Is it proper for the church to follow the pagan world-system?
Christmas did not originate in the Bible or the apostolic church; it is pagan to its very core.
The day, the tree, the exchanging of gifts, the mistletoe, the holly berries all originated in the idolatrous pagan festivities surrounding the winter solstice. The compromised, apostatizing Roman church took what was pagan and attempted to Christianize it. Covenant-breaking, Christ-hating, idol-worshipping, pagan unbelievers love Christmas.
Why? Because Christmas is not biblical.
Christmas is not of God. It is a lie, and Satan, their master, is the father of lies. Atheists, homosexuals, feminists, wicked politicians, murderers, child molesters, and idolaters all love Christmas. If Christmas were biblical, and if Christmas were commanded to be observed in the Bible, would the world love it so?
Absolutely not!
The world would hate Christmas. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God" (1 Cor. 2:14). Does the world love the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath? Of course not. The world hates it. Does the world love and obey the resurrected King of kings and Lord of lords? No! The world hates Christ. The world does love a plastic or clay baby in a manger. A plastic baby is not very threatening. Christ is no longer a baby. He is the glorified king who sits at the right hand of the Father. "Yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more" (2 Cor. 5:16).
The Bible teaches that "the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God" (1 Cor. 3:19). "Thus saith the LORD: Learn not the way of the heathen. . . for the customs of the peoples are vain" (Jer. 10: 2-3). The apostle Paul has in mind a much broader application than just marriage when he says, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?. . . Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Cor. 6:14-17). When the church has something relating to worship and religion in common with the unbelieving pagan world, the church, in that area, is bound together with unbelievers. The church has no business celebrating a pagan holiday with the pagan world. What hypocrisy! What wickedness!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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TEXASGRANDMA
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my family is NOT Catholic and we have been celeberating Christmas for generations. You make Christmas what you want it to be. To my family it is all about Jesus. You celeberate the way you want to and please leave my family to do so in peace. thank you,
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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becauseHElives
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Betty, there is no argument; there is no basis on which to celebrate Christmas except what has been given by the Roman Catholic Church.
You have a computer in front of you search the facts out for yourself.
Find the earliest record of the practice of Christmas.
Consider these quotes from the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition, under “Christmas”: “Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…the first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.” Further, “Pagan customs centering around the January calends gravitated to Christmas.” Under “Natal Day,” Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world” (emphasis mine).
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956 edition, adds, “Christmas…was not observed in the first centuries of the Christian church, since the Christian usage in general was to celebrate the death of remarkable persons rather than their birth…a feast was established in memory of this event [Christ’s birth] in the fourth century. In the fifth century the Western Church ordered the feast to be celebrated forever on the day of the Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and at the close of the Saturnalia, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed.”
There is no mistaking the origin of the modern Christmas celebration. Many additional sources could be cited and we will return to this later. Let’s begin to tie some other facts together.
It was 300 years after Christ before the Roman church kept Christmas, and not until the fifth century that it was mandated to be kept throughout the empire as an official festival honoring “Christ.”
Can Christ be Honored by Christmas?
The most common justification that one will hear regarding Christmas is that people have replaced old pagan customs and intents by asserting that they are now “focusing on Christ.” I have heard many say that they are “honoring Christ” in their Christmas-keeping. The problem is that God does not say this is acceptable to Him! Actually, He plainly commands against it! Keeping Christmas dishonors Christ! He considers everything about it to be an abomination! We will soon see why.
Christ said, “But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). Christmas is not a command of God—it is a tradition of men. Christ continued, “Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). Every year, throughout the world, on December 25th, hundreds of millions do just that!
We will see that God plainly commands, “Follow not the way of the heathen.” But most people do not fear God, and He allows them to make their own decisions. Human beings are free moral agents—free to obey or disobey God! But woe to those who ignore the plain Word of God!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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SycamoreFlynn
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I posted "Counting all the Money" as a tongue-in-cheek response to the rampant materialism that has characterized too much of the Christmas season. I also hoped that Christians might give some thought to the possibility that there is more undermining of Christmas than someone saying "happy holidays". Many Christians will spend much money on gifts manufactured in Communist China and Islamic Indonesia but feel vindicated because a sales clerk says "Merry Christmas".
I agree with Texasgrandma that we should celebrate the season as we see fit.
By the way, has anyone seen our Christian President's "winter solstice" card that he has sent to the chosen few?
Merry Christmas to all and happy birthday Jesus!
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I won't argue with anyone about this. I say celeberate Christmas in the way that you feel comfortable with. I won't apologize for celeberating my Savior's birth nor will expect every Christian to do so. Do what ever you do in love and respect for the Lord Jesus.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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becauseHElives
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It is easier to follow after the W!hore Roman Catholic church than to resist her.
I will continue to fight against evil in all it forms till I draw my last breath.
Yeshua is the Truth….but some would rather believe a lie…
Christmas is a Lie
Christianity is the religion of truth. God cannot lie. All truth and knowledge ultimately come from God. Jesus Christ is "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). The Holy Spirit is called "the Spirit of truth" (John 16:13). The Gospel is called "the word of truth" (Eph. 1:13). God commands: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Ex. 20:16). Paul tells us to be "speaking the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15), to put away lying and speak the truth to our neighbor in order not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:25, 30). Jesus Christ tells us that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). Christians are to be light and salt to the world (Matt. 5:13, 16).
Christians are to be a witness before the world by speaking the truth and living the truth. Is celebrating Christmas compatible with our responsibility to speak and live the truth before the world? No, because Christmas is a lie.
The date used to celebrate the birth of Christ, December 25, is a lie. According to the Bible, Jesus was not born on December 25. "And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:8). It is common knowledge that shepherds in Palestine came in from the fields before winter. The rainy season in Judea began in late October or early November. The shepherds would bring their field flocks into the villages before the beginning of the rainy season.
Therefore, Christ was born before the first week of November. "It is quite evident that Christ was not actually born in the middle of the winter season. But, on the other hand, do the scriptures tell us what season of the year he was born? Yes, the scriptures indicated that he was born in the fall of the year. For example, our Lord's public ministry lasted for three and a half years (Dan. 9:27, etc.). His ministry came to an end at the time of the Passover (John 18:39), which was in the spring of the year. And so three and a half years before this would mark the beginning of His ministry in the fall of the year. Now when Jesus began his ministry, he was about thirty years of age (Lk. 3:23). This was the recognized age for a priest before he could become an official minister under the Old Testament (Num. 4:3). Therefore, since Christ began his ministry at the age of about 30 since this was in the fall season of the year then thirty years before this would mark his birth as being in the early FALL, not December 25."31
If Christians are willing to celebrate a lie and fill Christ's sham birthday with Papist and pagan mythology (e.g., Santa Claus, the Christmas tree, mistletoe, the Yule log, evergreens, etc.), then why should the world believe the church when it really speaks the truth? If you lie about the birth of Christ and gladly indulge in pagan mythology, then when you tell your neighbor about the resurrection of Christ, why should he believe you? By celebrating Christmas you are putting a stumbling block in front of your unbelieving neighbor. Your neighbor could reason that since you speak and live a lie regarding the birth of Christ, you cannot be trusted when you speak about the resurrection of Christ. I've actually had intellectuals say to me, after I spoke to them of Christ's death and resurrection, that they are myths foisted on simple people by the church just like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny (of course, the Christmas lie has gone on for so long that most people accept it as fact).
The church must stop denigrating God's inspired, infallible Word by setting up human fantasies alongside divine revelation. Christmas is a contradiction of the biblical account of Christ's birth.
The World Loves Christmas
"[K]now ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (Jas. 4:4). "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world" (1 John 2:15).
Who leads whom? Is not the church of the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be an example to the world? Is not Christ's church to be salt and light to the nations? Is it proper for the church to follow the pagan world-system?
Christmas did not originate in the Bible or the apostolic church; it is pagan to its very core.
The day, the tree, the exchanging of gifts, the mistletoe, the holly berries all originated in the idolatrous pagan festivities surrounding the winter solstice. The compromised, apostatizing Roman church took what was pagan and attempted to Christianize it. Covenant-breaking, Christ-hating, idol-worshipping, pagan unbelievers love Christmas.
Why? Because Christmas is not biblical.
Christmas is not of God. It is a lie, and Satan, their master, is the father of lies. Atheists, homosexuals, feminists, wicked politicians, murderers, child molesters, and idolaters all love Christmas. If Christmas were biblical, and if Christmas were commanded to be observed in the Bible, would the world love it so?
Absolutely not!
The world would hate Christmas. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God" (1 Cor. 2:14). Does the world love the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath? Of course not. The world hates it. Does the world love and obey the resurrected King of kings and Lord of lords? No! The world hates Christ. The world does love a plastic or clay baby in a manger. A plastic baby is not very threatening. Christ is no longer a baby. He is the glorified king who sits at the right hand of the Father. "Yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more" (2 Cor. 5:16).
The Bible teaches that "the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God" (1 Cor. 3:19). "Thus saith the LORD: Learn not the way of the heathen. . . for the customs of the peoples are vain" (Jer. 10: 2-3). The apostle Paul has in mind a much broader application than just marriage when he says, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? and what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?. . . Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Cor. 6:14-17). When the church has something relating to worship and religion in common with the unbelieving pagan world, the church, in that area, is bound together with unbelievers. The church has no business celebrating a pagan holiday with the pagan world. What hypocrisy! What wickedness!
Don't Be Fooled
Paul warns that "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14). That is why pagan festivals throughout the world are fun days. They are days of fine food, parties, parades, family reunions and gift giving.
Satan's goal is not merely to enslave individuals but also to control institutions, cultures and nations. The heathen calendar of "holy days," where pagan festivals are celebrated each year at certain times, is a Satan-inspired tool to habituate whole cultures in covenant rebellion. Satan wants individuals and nations to be enslaved in pagan ritual and darkness. A culture is habituated to paganism when pagan festivals, rites and ceremonies are second nature and unquestioned in that society.
How have Christians been fooled into celebrating a pagan festival day? The day has been transformed from a day of darkness to a day of light. How is this done? It's very simple. The first thing you do is lie. You teach that this day is Christ's birthday. The fact that this is not really the day Christ was born is inconsequential.
Very few people will check the facts. And the ones who do will be regarded as fanatics, Scrooges and out of touch with modernity. Second, you make it a day when family members are required to be together. What a wonderful thing it is, a day for family dinner and family values. Third, you make it a day of gift giving and charity, a day of caring and sharing. Who could be against that? Fourth, you dedicate the day to children all over the world. You make it fun and give them lots of hugs and presents. Therefore, when these children grow up, the day will be filled with fond memories. It is a day of intense sentimentality. Doesn't it bring a little tear to your eye when you think of your parents and brothers and sisters gathered around the tree? Fifth, you make sure every city and town is properly decorated. And you get the whole entertainment industry into high gear with articles, specials, movies, plays and recitals. Sixth, you put community, workplace, church and family pressure on those who do not celebrate the day to conform or else be viewed as perverting the truth or out of touch with reality.
Has this strategy been effective? Yes, very effective. There was a time when Presbyterians and Congregationalists would have been disciplined for celebrating Christmas. For Protestants from the Calvinist wing of the Reformation, celebrating such days was unthinkable for nearly three hundred years. Now, if you are a Presbyterian and do not celebrate Christmas, other Presbyterians think you are a fanatic.
Protestants have been fooled, bamboozled, hoodwinked and duped because they have forgotten God's Regulative Principle. "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar"
(Prov. 30:5-6). There would be only one acceptable reason for a Christian to celebrate Christmas, and that would be an instruction from the Word of God to do so. Since there is no implicit or explicit instruction from the Bible to do so, it is forbidden.
Common Reasons Given by Christians for Celebrating Christmas
I. Doesn't Romans 14:5-6 allow Christians to celebrate Christmas?
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it" (Rom. 14:5-6).
1. Paul, in his epistle to the Romans, was addressing a situation unique to the early church. There were Jewish believers who "regarded the holy days of the ceremonial economy as having abiding sanctity."
The "days" spoken of in Romans were days commanded by God in the old economy. Paul is "referring to the ceremonial holy days of the Levitical institution."
Virtually all commentators concur with this interpretation. Paul allows for diversity in the church over the issue of Jewish holy days because of the unique historical circumstances. When Jesus Christ died on the cross, the ceremonial aspects of the law (e.g., animal sacrifices, Jewish holy days, circumcision, etc.) were done away with. Yet prior to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in A.D. 70, the apostles allowed certain practices by Jewish Christians as long as no works-righteousness was attributed to these practices.
In Acts 21:26, we even encounter the apostle Paul going to the Temple "to announce the expiration of the days of purification." Jewish believers who were already accustomed to keeping certain holy days of the Mosaic economy were allowed to continue doing so for a time. But once the Temple was destroyed, the canon of Scripture was completed, and the church had existed for a whole generation, these unique historical circumstances ceased. And even if this passage were still applicable to our present situation, it could not be used to justify Christmas, because these days were not "Christianized" pagan holy days nor arbitrary holy days set up by man. Therefore, if this passage were still applicable to our situation, it could only be used to justify the private celebration of Jewish holy days by weak Jewish believers. It cannot be used as a justification for man-made days or pagan days which God has not commanded.
2. Not only does this passage not allow Christians to celebrate Christmas, it most certainly forbids holding Christmas services of any kind and having Christmas fellowships or parties. Paul allows for diversity in the church over this issue (i.e., Jewish holy days). Both parties are to accept each other for the sake of peace and unity in the church. Both parties believe that they are obeying the Word of God. "Compelled conformity or pressure exerted to the end of securing conformity defeats the aims to which all the exhortations and reproofs are directed."
Therefore, it would be wrong for the weak Jewish believers to force the church to have a worship service in honor of a ceremonial holy day, because the strong Gentile believers would feel compelled to attend the public worship of God. Therefore, those who did celebrate Jewish holy days had to do it privately unto the Lord. Those who use this passage to justify celebrating Christmas would likewise be forced by Paul's injunction to keep the day a private affair. Thus, Christmas services and church Christmas parties would cease, for they violate the freedom of Christians not to celebrate such a day. Of course, Christmas, not being commanded by God and being a monument to idolatry, is forbidden, anyway.
Pastors and elders who do authorize a Christmas service abuse their office. The pastor and governors of a church receive their authority from God. They are responsible to rule the church according to the Word of God. When pastors and elders authorize a special Christmas service, they do so on their own authority, because there is no warrant from the Word of God to do so. Therefore, in this one point they act no differently than the pope or a bishop. They intrude a human invention into the church. Those in the church who refuse to take part in a pagan-popish festival day, who refuse to worship God according to man's imagination, who refuse to worship God without divine authorization, are forced by the church leadership to remain at home instead of attending the public worship of God. Thus, in this point, many presbyters act like popes, prelates and tyrants over God's flock, because they take away the freedom we have in Christ to worship God as one body publicly "in Spirit and in truth" on the Lord's day.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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ahar
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Andy,
Christmas has been about Christ for generations. This group of people who are against Christmas has come up in the last couple of years. It is not a sin to celeberate Christmas. Paul tells us to let no one condemn us for celeberations of days, etc.
Some people thing they are better then others because they do not celeberate. Where as those of us who do celeberate do not feel that way about those who don't celeberate.
If you celeberate Christmas, feel free to do so in the freedom that comes from being a child of God.
Merry Christmas.
betty
Artfully put, thank you Betty
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Cheers
Andy
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Gramajo320
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Hi Betty, I just want to say that I completely agree with everything you have said. Yes it is so very true there are ever so many people who do think of and do share with others not only during the holidays but all year round. I know this because when I worked as an Office Assistant for my Office Manager in the Administration Office over all the Neighborhood Centers for Catholic Charities my work included all food banks here in Spokane and all areas outside of city limits. My work involved all sorts of help for all those who needed the help. We had countless people here who shared so very much during the holidays and also all year round which was such a wonderful blessing! It's wonderful that you worked in the food banks and I'm certain it blessed you very much for all that you did! I certainly do agree with you that it's not a sin to have a Christmas tree and it's not a sin to celebrate our Saviour's birthday! We celebrate in remembrance of Jesus's birth and we have a saying "Jesus Is The Reason For The Season!" Many of God's Blessings to you, Betty!
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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GramaJo,
Thank you so much. It would be wonderful if people thought of others all year long and the truth is many do. After all food banks don't just operate at Christmas time. But after volunteering for 5 years at a food bank, I can tell you that we got much more donations during Thanksgiving to New Years time. Simply, the Holidays are times that remind people to be thankful for what they have and to share with others.
Having a Christmas tree is not a sin nor is taking the Christmas time to be more thankful to God a sin.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Gramajo320
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Hi Betty,
I am very much in agreement with you stating that many wonderful things are done in the name of Jesus at Christmas for I know this to be so very true. I've personally seen many very blessed wonderful things done and it's such a sweet blessing for it's all done in the name of Jesus. We do celebrate our Saviour's birth. God bless you very much, Betty!
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Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Andy,
Christmas has been about Christ for generations. This group of people who are against Christmas has come up in the last couple of years. It is not a sin to celeberate Christmas. Paul tells us to let no one condemn us for celeberations of days, etc.
Some people thing they are better then others because they do not celeberate. Where as those of us who do celeberate do not feel that way about those who don't celeberate.
If you celeberate Christmas, feel free to do so in the freedom that comes from being a child of God.
Merry Christmas.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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ahar
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Are you then saying that to celebrate the birth of Jesus is a sin?
There is nothing inherently sinful about traditions - Christmas may have started as a pagan festival, but why can't Christians set a certain date to celebrate a particular event? After all, we do the same for Easter.
I celebrate my birthday each year with some traditions (a cake, presents, singing happy birthday etc) - is this sinful?
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Cheers
Andy
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becauseHElives
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Men’s tradition have made the Word of Yahweh of none effect!
Origin of Christmas
The following is a quote from the 2000 Encyclopædia Britannica, Volume 11 ; page 390.
"During the later periods of Roman history, sun worship gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a 'solar monotheism.' Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of Solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities. The feast of Sol and Victus (open unconquered Sun) on December 25th was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of Christ."
Notice how it says "both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities"? The Christians were apparently trying to get more converts so they tried to "paganize" the Messiah to make Him more attractive to pagans. They even officially brought the feast of the unconquered sun into their worship in 336 AD. This is the origin of Christmas.
But the real question is, "Who converted who?" Do we murder to bring a murderer to Yahushua? Do we rape to bring a rapist to the Messiah? It is true that by 336AD, the mainstream beliefs of Christianity were already far from the truth the apostles taught anyway. However, even giving them that, shouldn't true believers be teaching the unbelievers the true way of Yahweh rather than the unbelievers teaching believers these pagan customs and practices? Certainly! Yet, the Christians not only learned these heathen ways, they also incorporated them into their worship. Scripture says:
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
History Reveals the Truth
Why do you celebrate Christmas? - Do you honestly believe that Christmas celebrates the day of Jesus' birth? Or, is it because of tradition? Let us examine both of these bases, searching for legitimacy in either.
December 25 - Whose Birthday? - Whose Tradition?
When was Jesus born? Neither the Bible nor any known writings claim to record His birth date. All available information supports an earlier time of the year for His birth. Then why do we observe December 25th?
This date was first officially recognized on Roman calendars about 336 A.D. having been decreed by Pope Sylvester in 320 A.D. to coincide with the sun-god feast, Saturnalia. Indeed, Rome was originally called "Saturnia", city of Saturn, after the Babylonian sun-god. Saturn ("the hidden one") is the secret name that was revealed only to members of the mysterious Babylonian religion (The Brotherhood). The connection is clear.
But the Romans did not invent the festival. December 25th was celebrated worldwide for thousands of years before Jesus was born under various names - all commemorating variations of the false trinity consisting of a father, mother and child. The mother is the queen of heaven while the child is the false messiah (god of light).
As Hislop (The Two Babylons) clearly demonstrates, the various stories are based on historical fact. It began in ancient Babylon where Semiramis, the mother and wife of Nimrod (the "rebel"), tried to retain her power after his death by marrying another (later-born) son (Tammuz) and declaring him to be the reincarnated Nimrod. Through migration this story spread throughout the world. Father is also called Baal, Osiris, Orion, Molech, Saturn, Odin, Cupid, Seb, etc. and is symbolized by the yule log. The mother is also, Ishtar, Astarte, Venus, Diana, Aurora, Aphrodite, Isis, etc. and is symbolized by the mother holding the infant child. The child (or yule), is also known as moon god, Lord of Misrule, (wantonness and drunkenness), Bacchus, Thor, Lord of the Fir-tree, and Horus. One example is most enlightening. This shows Aurora as the goddess of the dawn giving birth to the "light bringer" -who is to enlighten the world (Memnon). Isn't it interesting that Lucifer is referred to as "son of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12)? The Bible tells us that "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" "which deceiveth the whole world" (II Cor. 11:14; Rev. 12:9).
December 25th is not the birthday of Jesus or a Christian tradition. However, it has been decreed to be a Roman Catholic holiday. Cardinal Newman, in his book, admits that all holidays, seasons of devotion and images are of pagan origin. Christmas was adopted from the worldwide celebration of the re-birth of the sun-god (anti-christ) which was marked by drunken, de-baucherous orgies. Not what we thought is it?
Was it "christianized" by Church adoption?
The simple answer is NO! Neither the apostles nor the early church celebrated His birth, at all. In 245 A.D., it was declared to be a sin even to think of keeping His birthday. The Reformation Protestants did not, Puritans and Pilgrims even outlawed it in the 1600's and as late as 1855 Presbyterians, Baptists and Methodists refused to recognize it as a holiday. Christmas did not even begin to be a legal holiday anywhere in the United States of America until very late in the 19th century. In fact, Webster's Dictionary tells us that as late as 1913 many States did not even recognize it as a legal holiday (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1913 Ed., p. 253). For a period of three hundred years, from the first permanent English settlement in America in 1607 (Jamestown, Virginia) great numbers of Bible believing Christians did not celebrate Christmas in America. But with the influx of Roman Catholics since the 1800's the practice spread and gained acceptance by all but the "remnant".
Charles A. Goodrich, a Christian writer in the year 1830, wrote:
“The present depressed state of Popery, both in England, and on the continent [North America], is no proof that its leading principles [propagation of pagan doctrines, persecution of Protestant Christians] have been abandoned. By means of various revolutions, its power has been shaken, and, from motives of policy, it has been compelled to cease from blood [murder]; but, in the language of a distinguished divine of our own country, ‘not a principle of the system has been abandoned. All the wiles of ages are put in requisition now, to heal the fatal wounds, which the beast has received, and to render the system still more powerful [influential]’. “Within a short period, the attention of the Pope of Rome has been directed to North America, and systematic efforts are now making, under his immediate patronage, and at his expense, to introduce and establish this corrupt system, in various parts of our land.” “The question presents itself to the American people: ‘Shall this system find encouragement, in the land of the pilgrims?’ We fear not, indeed, that Popery can ever greatly flourish on the American soil.... Yet, while the friends of truth should not be needlessly alarmed, neither should they sleep. A holy vigilance should guard well the approaches of an enemy, whose triumphs here would be the ruin of that fair fabric, which cost our fathers so much toil to erect.” (Charles A. Goodrich, Book Of Martyrs, printed by Philemon Canfield, 1830, p 3,4)
What does "Christmas" mean?
The word "Christmas" is, itself, an unholy mixture of Christ and Mass. "Christ" means "anointed" from the greek word "Cris-tos". To Christians it refers to Jesus as The Christ but to the catholic it may refer to the Pope as the Vicar of Christ. Popery has declared, the pope ..."holds upon the earth the place of God Almighty,... is Christ in office, jurisdiction and power and ... in clinging to thee (pope) we cling to Christ...." (Vatican Council of 1870). There is good cause to wonder to whom glory is given during the mass.
The word "mass" comes from the latin root "mittere" (to send) and derives from "missa" (to dismiss). Could "merry christ-mas" actually mean to merrily dismiss Jesus as Christ?
The Roman church declares the mass to be a sacrament (sacrifice) in which Jesus is physically sacrificed each time as the wafer and wine actually are transformed into the body and blood of Jesus which are then consumed by the officiating priest. This "unbloody sacrifice" is supposed to pay for the sins of both the living and dead (But, see Hebrews 7:27, 9:22 & 27-8, click here to view Scriptures).
This "transubstantiation" of the wafer into the body of Jesus is so serious that if the priest vomits after eating it he is told to consume the vomit so that the "wafer-god" is properly revered. The ritual uses only round wafers/cakes emblazoned with the letters "IHS" which the Roman church claims is latin for "Jesus the savior of men". But for centuries before Jesus such round wafer/cakes (the sun) have been offered to the queen of heaven (Jer. 7:18) and in Egypt, for example, the round wafers had the same initials "IHS" which stood for the unholy trinity Isis, Horus and Seb. The balance of the mass is equally suspect.
CONCLUSION
Other familiar christmas traditions such as mistletoe; evergreen trees, boughs and wreaths; exchanging gifts; burning of incense and candles; revering mother and child; yule log; christmas goose; wassailing (punch) bowl; etc. all have the same pagan roots. Rational people can only conclude that christmas festivities are nothing more than idolatrous rituals to which the name "Christian" has been added. This unholy mixture did not fool the early church or the Puritans and Pilgrims. Neither should we be fooled. "Learn not the way of the heathen ... For the customs of the people are vain" (Jer. 10:2-3). "Abstain from all appearance of evil." (I Thess. 5:22). "Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (II Cor. 6:17).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I celeberate the birth of my Savior. I am not Catholic, but there are Catholic Christians. It is wrong to put everyone into one box. Like I said many wonderful things are done in the name of Jesus at Christmas time.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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becauseHElives
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To except “Christ-mass” is to except that something good has come from the Mother Wh!ore that has shed the blood of more humans than Adolph Hitler.
CHARLES SPURGEON
QUOTES ON CHRISTMAS
We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).
When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, "Is this a law of the God of Jacob?" and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon's Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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TEXASGRANDMA
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yes there is that side to Christmas. There is also the side to people donating to the food banks, to people donating winter clothing to the poor and homeless. To those who go to nursing homes at Christmas time to deliver presents to those fogotten. Those who visit shut-ins with fruit baskets at Christmas time. Christmas is not all bad. Because there are some who are greedy at Christmas time, doesn't erase the good that many do at this time of the year.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SycamoreFlynn
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In celebration of the true meaning of Christmas in the USA:
COUNTING ALL THE MONEY WE MADE
(Sung to “Winter Wonderland”)
The checkout lines are long and trying,
Throughout the stores the shoppers buying.
A beautiful sight,
We’re happy tonight,
Counting all the money we made.
The manger scenes, the stores will soon seize,
Replaced by toys made by Red Chinese.
A beautiful sight,
We’re happy tonight,
Counting all the money we made.
Stroll up the aisle and there will be a display,
Let’s all pretend that Michael Jordan’s there.
We’ll ask him if he’s happy so he can say:
“Buy my Nike shoes two hundred bucks a pair.”
On Xmas Eve, we’ll perspire
For record sales down to the wire.
A beautiful sight,
We’re happy tonight,
Counting all the money we made.
Stroll down the aisle and there will be a display,
Pull out your credit card add to your debt.
Stare at the blinking signs, read what the ads say:
“Don’t be the last to buy a Chia Pet.”
Holly day has arrived now.
The stores have closed, worship the Cash Cow.
A beautiful sight,
We’re happy tonight,
Counting all the money we ma-a-ade.
Counting all the money we made.
Ca-ching!
COUNTING ALL THE MONEY WE MADE Sung to “Winter Wonderland”
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