Tennessee Elijah
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Member # 5277
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posted
Original messages COPIED from the Christian BBS message board with comments included later by Elijah ("E") after careful evaluation:
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Tennessee Elijah -- posted December 13, 2005 07:53 AM
A systematic effort by demons to penetrate the souls of Americans stems most likely from the
pit of Hell, the head of a leading Christian institute said. The attacks have been traced to Satan in the state of California, and the techniques used make it appear unlikely to come from any other source than the enemies of Christ, said John Smith, the director of the JIGROP Institute, an education and research organization focusing on salvation of souls.
"These demonic attacks come from a group with intense discipline. No other organization could
do this if they were not a spiritual organization," Smith said in a conference call when announcing a new education program.
In the attacks, Smith said, the perpetrators "were in and out of consciousness with no apparent errors, and created an obsession for sin in less than 30 seconds. How can this be done by anyone other than demonic forces controlled by the Evil One?"
Smith said that despite what appears to be a systematic effort to target liberal Democrats and hypocrites in various Christian groups, defenses have remained weak in many areas.
"We know about major penetrations of politicians in key cities," he said.
Security among private-sector casual Bible readers may not be as robust, said Smith, because "they are less willing to use their faith to resist spiritual attacks."
Smith said the strategy preferred by typical Christians appears to be to downplay the attacks, which has not helped the situation.
"We have a problem within millions of souls that have been terribly and deeply penetrated
throughout the United States -- and in most nations of the world ... and we've been keeping it secret," he said.
"The ones who benefit most from keeping it secret are the attackers."
Although Smith said the demons probably have not succeeded in overcoming people of true faith
in Lord Jesus Christ, who are accustomed to fighting off bad thoughts created by negative
thinking, it is possible they compromised "extremely sensitive" inspirational information.
He said it has been documented that messages from prophets have been ignored, misunderstood
or simply rejected due to ignorance brought about by deception.
Famous Spiritual leaders confirmed earlier this year that Christian websites are probed hundreds
of times a day by demon-possessed Antichrist supporters, but maintained that no real harm has
been done in their struggle to destroy the Kingdom of God.
Supporters of the JIGROP campaign have code-named their newest effort against Satan "Jesus
Power" and have made some strides in counter-hacking to identify their humans enemies who are
aiding the attackers, Smith said. This was first reported by Reality magazine.
Smith said a series of attacks on Music City Revival and the Elijah Jesus Club reported earlier this year may have been started against other Christian organizations, but they seem to be using different techniques.
In most nations of this world, Smith said there are some areas of improvement on the side of
righteousness, because prophets are starting to fight fire with fire. But Smith argued that "the
fundamental error is that our spiritual security strategy has relied too much on our own strength
instead of leaning upon the power of our Maker."
It seems that even a few of those who claim to be Christians are not able to distinguish parables from fiction or polls from deception.
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
COMMENT by E: This "Demons Deceive" message is combination Truth, parody, fiction, parable,
and my style of satirical reverse psychology. There is a "moral" to the story for anyone who reads with a normal amount of discernment. As I have learned by the posts below, not everyone can interpret what they read correctly. As you proceed to read, please take note of my "E says"
comments which are interjected where clarification is necessary.
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chaoschristian -- posted December 13, 2005 10:07 AM
Was this written by the Christian version of "The Onion"?
***E says: No, but this question suggests that satire was recognized.
Seriously, why is it that those who are really outspoken about demonic forces attacking
American are also most likely to say that
'fill-in-the-blank-group-who-I-perceive-is-opposed-to-my-POV' are the ones that have been
possessed.
***E says: Based on what was read, this person decides to insult me -- and/or the concept -- that demons are very real in the souls of people. The word "demon" is defined as an "evil spirit" or "devil." If the logic of the above accusation is correct, how would this person explain this verse
from the Bible: "And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with ...devils... : and he cast out the ...spirits... with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." Matthew 8:14-17
That is the equivalent of saying, who ever doesn't agree with me is demon possessed and going to hell. Which, sad to say, is what too many Christians are willing to do, and even more sadly, has become one of the leading stereo-types of Christians by non-Christians.
***E says: Where in "Demons Deceive" does this interpretation come from? Demon possession does not happen if we disagree with the views of another person -- as this accusation claims was
stated. However, evidence of "possession" takes many other forms. "And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with ...devils...,
coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold,
they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come
hither to torment us before the time? And there was a good way off from them an herd of many
swine feeding. So the ...devils... besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters." Matthew 8:28-32
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to reconcile Christianity to the world. The world and Christianity cannot reconcile. But, is this the message we really want to send to the world?
***E says: This is not THE Message, but only one of thousands that we want other people to
contemplate. Sometimes we can be a "catalyst" to start people thinking -- as one thought follows
another and another on the way to full comprehension of Truth.
Oh, wait, I forgot - JIGROP!
***E says: This sarcasm of "JIGROP" -- meaning Jesus is God, repent or perish, is not funny.
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Tennessee Elijah --posted December 14, 2005 08:42 AM
To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in our day:
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and
knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."
Where is the church of the Laodiceans today? Are professing Christians in some places are part
of this church? Are you a member in good standing in this church?
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
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chaoschristian -- posted December 14, 2005 09:26 AM
I can tell you and I are not going to see eye-to-eye on this.
This is what the typical non-Christian hears when they encounter a JIGROP Crusader . . .
[hypothetical situation]
JIGROP Crusader to Man on Street: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street [what he actually hears]: You pagan heathen! I'm going to verbally assault you with the name of a religious figure with which you may or may not have any knowledge of or familiarity with, and proclaim that no matter what you have spent your life believing, if you believe anything at all, YOU ARE WRONG. And I know this because I am wearing this t-shirt with an acronym on it. Additionally, I am now threatening you with physical death if you do not immediately get down on you knees, plea for mercy, and agree with what I am saying!"
Man on Street to JIGROP Crusader: "WTF?"
***E says: What does "WTF" mean? Is this vulgar language done as an acronym to mock the
JIGROP acronymn?
JIGROP Crusader: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street hears: "I have spent so much time allowing myself to be indoctrinated with this
JIGROP crusade thing, that I forgot to think through what to say if someone actually responds to me and now all I can do is repeat myself."
Man on Street says:"Ah, look, I have a lunch appointment I'm late for . . . I gotta go."
JIGROP Crusader: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street hears: "I am insane."
Man on Street leaves, wanting to forget the whole thing and begins to reconsider the invitation to church a friend offered him, since Man on Street now wants nothing to do with such lunatics.
JIGROP 'Ambassador'[frantically waving arms around]: "Wait! Wait . . . God is love!"
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chaoschristian -- posted December 14, 2005 09:34 AM
Tennessee Elijah wrote: To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in our day:
Do not patronize me with scripture or scriptual allusions. Put your little Bible hammer back in
your toybox. Nothing bothers me more when someone deigns to attack another using scripture
and does so in the most unintelligent and condescending manner.
***E says: How does quoting the Bible equate to "patronize" or "illusions"? Making reference to "little Bible" does not show respect for the Holy Words of God -- and making reference to the
Bible as a treasure kept in a "toybox" is an insult. Accusing Christians of "attacking" others through compassionate use of "scripture" is neither "unintelligent" or "condescending" as
charged. My reaction to this litany of false accusations is sadness -- that another human could respond with such venom.
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chaoschristian -- posted December 14, 2005 09:44 AM
Finally, you didn't even attempt to respond to the heart of my original post, and instead you resort to an infantile personal attack.
***E says: This person is accusing me of something I believe is unfounded. Instead, I honestly think the word "infantile" applies only to the person who used it to charge me with a "personal attack." Where are the words to support this contention?
Let me give you a second chance:
Why is it that outspoken proponents of demonic attacks and possessions never seem to site
themselves as the victims of said attacks? Or groups that they might affiliate with?
***E says: Here I am getting a "second chance" when I see no "first change" to respond to this
new accusation that simply appeared out of thin air. To answer the charge, every human on this
planet is susceptible to "demonic attacks." It happens all of the time to all people! There
difference is that Christians learn how to identify and repel devils who come with torment in mind.
A verse that is common to most of us: "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world." 1 John 4:3&4
It seems the message is clear that when the Democrats and other church hypocrites are
accused of being beset by demonic forces, that whoever opposes those groups (let me take a
guess, perhaps the GOP?) isn't beset because of their 'virtue.'
***E says: After reading this, I begin wondering if "chaoschristian" is a liberal Democrat with a
hidden agenda. This "theory" has been reinforced after reading interactions with posters on other
boards. This person has a strong desire to debate -- rather than educate; to agitate -- rather than placate. (You can quote this original phrase coined by yours truly.)
Let me ask another question. How is it any different if we substitute the word 'demon' with the word 'communist'?
***E says: How did the idea of "communism" get into this dialogue?
You are engaging in demgoguery, admit it.
***E says: Why would I want to "admit" to a false charge?
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Tennessee Elijah -- posted December 15, 2005 08:33 AM
ELIJAH comments on this post: The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When
considering a potential witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to
reach out to lost souls, the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had
this person been more loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
I can tell, Elijah, you and I are going to see eye-to-eye on this great idea of yours.
This is what the typical non-Christian might hear when they encounter a JIGROP Witness . . .
[hypothetical situation]
JIGROP Witness to Man at the mall who asked the meaning of "JIGROP" when seeing the word on the T-shirt: "Thanks for asking. It is just a reminder of my favorite verse in the Bible -- John 3:16. It says, 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' We Christians believe that anyone who fails to believe in Jesus will 'perish' -- just like the Bible explains. This acronym is a simple, one-word message that reminds all of us -- Jesus is God, repent or perish."
Man at the mall [what he actually imagines the JIGROP witness to be thinking]: "You are a nice
person who has shown curiosity for the 'word' on my shirt -- and I respect you enough to give a
polite response to your question. I'm going to verbally express my interest in you by sharing my faith in Christ -- which you may or may not have any knowledge of or familiarity with, and proclaim that no matter what you have spent your life believing, if you believe anything at all, I want to make sure that you consider the importance of serving what I believe to be the One true God. And I know this because I am a person who found it necessary to change my thinking many times in the past, repent of my sins, and to willingly struggle during each day of my life to remain true to the Lord I serve. Additionally, I'm now offering friendship, promising a way to experience eternal life in the Kingdom of God, and inviting you to take this witnessing card to remind you of our
encounter here in this public place."
Man at the mall to JIGROP Witness: "Thanks for explaining your shirt to me. If you really love
Jesus like you say, and you want people to repent of their sins so they will go to Heaven instead of Hell, you must be a good Christian. Where do you go to church?"
JIGROP Witness: "There are several great churches in our community I can recommend. I like visiting different places just to see how other Christians worship. During this past year, I had fellowship with the Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Assembly of God Pentecostals, and Grace Interdenominational on Vine Street -- just to name a few. Whatever church you decide to attend, please keep in mind that no church is perfect except for the 'Church' of God -- which the Bible speaks of as the Body of Christ."
Man at the mall is thinking as he listens: "This person with the 'JIGROP' shirt is sincere, and
doesn't seem to have any selfish or competitive motives. I'm glad I took a few minutes to hear
what he had to say."
Man at the mall says: "Ah, look, I have a lunch appointment I'm late for, but before I go -- I want to say I enjoyed talking with you. The next time I see 'JIGROP' on a shirt or cap, I'll remember what it means. I've always believed there was a God. Maybe I need to start reading the Bible more and going to church?"
JIGROP Witness: "Glad we could talk. Have a nice day!"
Man at the mall walks away after shaking hands, putting the witnessing card into his pocket, and
wanting to remember the compassion shown by a stranger.
JIGROP Witness turns to see a pretty lady approaching with a smile, asking, "Excuse me, sir, what does that word on your shirt mean?"
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
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chaoschristian -- posted December 15, 2005 01:07 PM
Fantasy indeed.
Elijah Tennesse, it has not been my observed experience that those who advocate a JIGROP
approach are ever as civil in their actions, attitude, demeanor or spirit as in your scenerio.
Is it possible? Anything is possible, but I have yet to see it or hear about it.
***E says: This leads me to wonder where this person goes to church?
quote: The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When considering a potential
witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to reach out to lost souls,
the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had this person been more
loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
Of all the patronizing, condescending . . .
***E says: Your accusations are not true. You do "claim" to be a Christian -- a "chaoschristian"
to be exact. Your JIGROP "scenario" above was not "influenced" by Godly thoughts -- unless you
are claiming that the "Holy Spirit" inspired you to write: "...You pagan heathen! I'm going to
verbally assault you with the name of a religious figure with which you may or may not have any knowledge of..." -- and of course your "WTF" which are three words most Christians do not use in their prayers to God -- ("What The F_ _ _.)
Look, at least I'm honest enough you call you out and state what I think of your evangelical
approach.
***E says: Your false accusations do not come across like "honesty" to me. Your opinionated
disagreements with me have nothing to do with "honestly." Naturally, you do have a right to disagree with your parents, your friends, with God -- or with me. So? Is there something in my above writings that cause you to think I believe otherwise?
You on the other hand hide behind the dis-honest and fallacious approach of "oh, he's mean so
he's not a REAL Christian."
***E says: Again, my friend, I have never characterized you as being "mean." I checked over my comments -- and can find no reference to me saying youy are not a "REAL Christian." I am not your Judge or your psychologist. I am just a stranger that you have encountered on an Internet message board.
Right.
Let's go back to my previous point:
Either demonstrate how you were not engaging in demagouery with your initial post, or be honest
and admit it.
***E says: Your original "point" is pointless!
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Tennessee Elijah -- posted December 16, 2005 01:07 PM
You want me to demonstrate how I was not engaging in demagoguery with my initial post, or be honest and admit that I was? Am I supposed to waste time defending myself from your false
accusations? Are you accusing me of dishonestly appealing to the passions, prejudices or
popular desires of you and other readers of my JIGROP messages? Excuse me, Chaoschristian,
what are you trying to prove with your confrontational, argumentative attitude against me?
The "scenario" version that I wrote to contrast what you had written did not come out of a heart
filled with demagoguery as you seem to believe. You also accuse me of being patronizing and
condescending. Why? Where did that come from?
Are you having personal problems because of gender or sexual orientation? If you are, don't
blame me. I am just an innocent bystander -- not your enemy.
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
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chaoschristian -- posted December 16, 2005 09:18 PM
quote: You want me to demonstrate how I was not engaging in demagoguery with my initial post,
or be honest and admit that I was? Am I supposed to waste time defending myself from your
false accusations? Are you accusing me of dishonestly appealing to the passions, prejudices or popular desires of you and other readers of my JIGROP messages? Excuse me, Chaoschristian, what are you trying to prove with your confrontational, argumentative attitude against me?
I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery. There are no qualifications or disclaimers with the post, so one is only left to believe that you support what is being stated in it.
***E says: The original post -- "Demons Deceive" -- was both written by me and posted by me.
The reaction to it was much different on other message boards where I often share my thoughts
with people who are less argumentative than you. Maybe you read the words and took them too
personal -- instead of realizing that it was written for a larger audience. When you try to twist my words around in a way to justify your "hate" -- or whatever it is -- by comparing me to the Hitlers, Usamas or John Kerry type politicians in this world, then it is hardly worth my time to take you seriously. (After you read these words that I've just written, you will be taking out your fine-tooth-comb with a magnifying glass to see if you can find something else to complain about.)
What the post says is that anyone who does not believe and agree with a particular POV is
demon possessed and/or a false Christian.
***E says: It does not say that. Copy the words -- accurately -- and make a serious effort to prove your false assertions if you expect other readers to agree with the trash you are putting on these boards.
And since these statements are being made by John Smith, the Director of JIGROP Institute, and you are a vocal advocate of JIGROP and the person to post the 'article' in the first place, then I am provided with even more evidence that you did indeed support what is being said.
***E says: No, my friend, you are only providing "evidence" that you lack intellectual skill in making proper evaluations in regard to my "intent" and subtle "motivation" for sharing the original message -- "Demons Deceive."
Do you disagree that this is a reasonable conclusion?
***E says: Yes. It is totally unreasonable.
quote: The "scenario" version that I wrote to contrast what you had written did not come out of a heart filled with demagoguery as you seem to believe. You also accuse me of being patronizing and condescending. Why? Where did that come from?
I never said that your scenerio was evidence of demagoguery. My accusations of demagoguery
are clearly aimed at the original post. In fact, my first accusation was posted before your
scenerio. The second accusation also included a direct reference to the original post. So, my
accusation of your demagoguery does not stem out of your scenerio, it stems only out of your
original post.
***E says: Here, again, my friend, you failed to understand what you read. The "point" I was
making in the above quote is this: If you belive my version of your "fantasy" scenario was
acceptable and could be described as "good fruit," -- simply understand that I selected the words to express my thoughts that were written for you and others to read. Please regard this as "evidence" of my heartfelt convictions. Are you familar with this information from the Bible: "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth ...good fruit...; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth ...evil fruit.... A good tree
cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Matthew 7:16-18
And I derive my claim that you are being patronizing and condescending from this:
***E says: Readers who know how to define "patronize" and "condescend" might have trouble finding anything you presented to substantiate your false accusations. "Patronize" simply means that someone is treating another person in a "condescending" manner. Also, it means that someone might "patronize" -- or be a customer -- of a particular business. "Condescend" simply means that someone is behaving in a "patronizing" manner -- and might feel superior. Also, engaging in meaningless debate might be beneath the dignity of a person who treats others in a condescending way. This is my understanding of these two words. If there is evidence to confirm the charges below, please advise.
quote: To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in
our day: "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;
and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."
Where is the church of the Laodiceans today? Are professing Christians in some places are part
of this church? Are you a member in good standing in this church?
And this . . . quote: The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When considering a
potential witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to reach out to
lost souls, the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had this person
been more loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
And this (!), which unbelievably fell on the heels of your question about how I could possibly see you as patronizing and condescenging . .
quote: Are you having personal problems because of gender or sexual orientation? If you are,
don't blame me. I am just an innocent bystander -- not your enemy.
***E says: Let me rephrase and expand upon that for your enlightenment: Are you having
personal problems because of gender or sexual orientation, confusion over the role of Christians
in American society, frustration with the war in Iraq, disappointment over how President Bush is
handling the economy, anger against Republicans who favor lower taxes, guilt because you didn't
do enough to get John Kerry elected, contempt for anyone who fails to tolerate Satan and his
fallen angels, and your lack of power to convince banks to lower interest rates on credit cards?
NOW...did all of those questions make you feel like I was "patronizing" and "condescending" and
another Hitler-type abortionist who advocates the murder of unborn children? I'm amazed that you haven't accused me of that yet.
First you take a swipe at me with your Bible Hammer, then you accuse me of not being a
Christian, and finally you accuse me of being homosexual or gender confused!
Finally you have the audacity to claim that you are an innocent bystander when you were the one
to submit the original post!
***E says: "Innocent bystander" in the sense that I have no responsibility for the "demons" that are messing up your serenity.
And the cherry on top of this delicious little treat is that you then claim not to be my enemy, after attempting to smear me with personal attacks, rather than responding directly to my original point.
***E says: Although you continue to provoke me with rudeness, I find myself feeling compassion
instead of anger. You probably will not understand, based on my experience with you thus far, but I place high value on "time, energy, knowledge, communication skills," and "compatible, polite people who seek true friendship." In would be wrong of me to waste myself in places where I am misunderstood, falsely accused, despised or rejected.
If you cannot understand how any of this might be patronizing or condescending, then the
concepts are beyond you.
***E says: No, my friend, I fully understand the "concepts" -- but I totally disagree with
presumptions.
I am only interested in whether or not you can or will refute my claim that you engaged in
demagoguery when you posted your original article.
***E says: I refute your false accusations. Is that clear enough?
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Tennessee Elijah -- posted December 17, 2005 06:38 PM
Quoting Chaoschristian: "...I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery...."
If you are going to accuse me of your version of "demagoguery" -- at least learn how to spell it correctly.
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
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chaoschristian -- posted December 17, 2005 10:16 PM
quote: Quoting Chaoschristian: "...I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery...."
If you are going to accuse me of your version of "demagoguery" -- at least learn how to spell it correctly.
1. You posted this after you were to have left me in God's hands. Along with other posts directed at me, I can only assume that you did not really mean what you said, and that you have no intent to leave me in God's hands. Something that is really redundant to express, since I am in God's hands, and have been since before I was born. And so were you. Along with everyone else who was, is or will be blessed with life.
***E says: Please try to understand this: "We are all in God's hands." When I said I will leave you in God's hands -- I meant that your eternal destiny will depend upon Him and not me. I can't "force" anyone to believe anything against their will -- but God has methods that might penetrate doubt. I can't convince anyone to respect my opinions -- but God has methods that might cause a person to change their thinking. Do you need another dozen examples to illustrate what the phrase really meant? I DID NOT say that I would never be civil with you or anyone else. I DID NOT say that I would totally ignore you and totally stop my activities on this board. If you want to convince the moderators to cancel my "registration" here -- because you can't seem to understand these words I am writing, and you feel like I am "patronizing," that is your call to make.
2. You've engaged in the Red Herring/Nitpickery fallacy. In other words, you are trying to distract from the main argument with protestations that are irrelevant or trivial. OK, I'm a sloppy speller. I should use my spell check. So what? It does not detract from my argument at all, nor does it help your case at all.
***E says: You are now accusing me of what you are doing yourself. You are doing the same thing to other posters. I assume you like this kind of interaction even though it is confrontational
and competitive. My natural inclination is to be passive rather than contentious.
3. Evidence is mounting that you are taking this personally. Let me assure you that it is not. If
you were to show up at my house in need of anything, I would provide it to you, freely and with the spirit that Christ demands of us.
***E says: Wrong again. I consider your misconceptions to be challenging and I enjoy
controversial people who are in need of serious feedback. I hope you realize that I am taking my
time to do this without anticipation of winning any medals -- or other honors. As to your offer of supplying my needs if I happen to visit your house, I think that shows you are a generous person who will share with others.
That said, you are not off the hook when it comes to posting material that others might find
objectionable. None of us are. And when I state 'find objectionable' I do not mean the insipid and PC 'feel offended by' but the very rational and concrete 'I object to what you say on the following grounds.' And if I do (as in this particular case) then I fully expect you to respond in kind - with a rational, well thought out counter argument that tells me why I was mistaken, or a concession.
And if you prove me to be mistaken, then you can expect a concession from me.
***E says: I always welcome constructive advice. I play chess on the Internet almost every day. I
find myself laughing right outloud and actually enjoying moves made by my opponents -- that
cause me to lose the game. I admire their tenacity. I admire how they sometimes navitage
across the board with their pieces -- catching me offguard -- and winning the game. Losing can be more fun than winning if you have a good attitude about the games you are playing. We losing chess players often use "gg" on the chat at the end of a game to compliment our opponent with a simple -- "good game." If you play chess, try ---www.instantchess.com -- and find me by the name "telijah." As far as your "concession" suggestion, Carl Sandburg the poet once said, "We are all ignorant, but some of us are more ignorant than others." This kind of thinking does not make me feel "superior" to anyone. I consider myself to be "living dirt" -- not a "walking dictionary."
However, you did not do that. You instead resorted to personal attacks and evasion of the issue.
Then you abandoned the field by dimissing me, which by the way is a concession to my argument.
***E says: What you interpret as "evasion of the issue" is an assumption based on your own
perspective of reality. Maybe I was too busy to in the past to do what I am doing today? Maybe I
get bored with people who seem to be doing research on Christian message boards for a book -- or to gather ammunition for the next political season. (Please understand that this is just
speculation on my part -- giving an example -- of what some people do under the pretense of
being just another Christian in search of Truth.)
And let me just emphasize for your erudition, that throughout this engagement I have not once
attacked you on a personal level. I have not attempted to bean you with the Bible Hammer, I have not questioned your Christianity, and I have most certainly not questioned your sexual
orientation.
***E says: Of course you have attacked me. I know that and anyone who reads your posts will
know that. Even so, I really have no reason to be vindictive or desire to be defensive.
I have confronted you, and I simply cannot believe that you would not expect to be confronted if you posted what you did in your initial post in this thread. But maybe I am wrong, maybe you really expected everyone to simply agree with you and with what was said in your post. Maybe you posted what you did because you thought you had a 'safe' audience, and assumed that everyone would simply see it as you see it. And maybe, just maybe, the concept of a fellow Christian disagreeing with you is so outside your frame of reference that you have no experience in dealing with it and that that might account for your behaviour.
***E says: I post my messages without unrealistic expectations. As a matter of fact, it is the rare person who comes along and says "Amen!" You represent the majority who are my constant antagonists in life. I've heard every insult imaginable. They were calling me a liar, con artist, false prophet, crazy man, fool, lunatic, moron, retarded imbecile, and ugly old man back in the seventies -- just like they are today. Occasionally, I've heard a few say they believe that I might be a true prophet, some kind of genius, a kind person with imagination, or just a fun-loving person
with a weird sense of humor. AND, guess what, my enemies and friends are all treated equally. I
have no hate for anyone.
------------------------------------------------
chaoschristian -- posted December 18, 2005 03:11 PM
This exchange is copied to this thread in the interest of keeping all of these related posts
together in one place.
quote: Chaoschristian, any subjective analysis of your interpretation of my posts would not
confirm your suppositions.
Actually, I think what you intended to say is that an objective analysis would not confirm my
suppositions. Any subjective analysis would be biased either for you and against me, or for me
and against you.
***E says: You misunderstood my purpose in using the word "subjective." Let me rephrase the comment this way: Chaoschristian, any honest expression of personal feelings or opinions in regard to the actual meaning of my posts would not confirm your suppositions, If I had meant to say "objective analysis" as you think, it would have read like this: Chaoschristian, any honest expression of my personal feelings or opinions in regard to the actual meaning of my posts would not confirm your suppositions. In other words, either "subjective" or "objective" analysis would result in the same outcome. Whether the evaluations ARE based on personal opinions (subjective) -- or are NOT based on personal opinions but by facts (objective.)
However, I did not engage in supposition:
***E says: Of course you did. Now you want to debate another word. Why? When you jump to erroneous conclusions and make false statements impulsively -- you have convinced me that your "suppositions" are founded on falacies. Read your definition below and see if you can apply it to our complete communications -- and not phrases pulled out of context.
quote: supposition
n 1: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence [syn: guess, conjecture,
surmise, surmisal, speculation, hypothesis] 2: a hypothesis that is taken for granted; "any
society is built upon certain assumptions" [syn: assumption, supposal] 3: the cognitive process
of supposing [syn: supposal]
Definition of Supposition
Post was edited by chaoschristian at this point in order to restore the link to Dictionary.com
I have more than enough evidence in your original post to say that you engaged in demagoguery.
I also have supporting evidence in your complete refusal to address the issue and instead launch
into a series of personal attacks on me, all of which taken together can be viewed as a
concession on your part.
***E says. Wrong again. There is no concession.
quote: It would be pointless for me to engage in argumentative dialogue with you -- or anyone else -- who seems to have an "agenda" which is not relevant to the issues we are discussing.
Please clearly articulate what other agenda I might have other than to address the main issue in the original thread? Again you side-step the issue in favor of misdirection.
***E says: I could make many suppositions about your motivations, but I won't.
quote: Think what you will. Accuse as you desire.
You leave me no choice through your refusal to directly address the main topic. Throughout this
entire dialogue you have yet to once address the issue head on. Instead you attacked me on a
personal level or attempted to misdirect the exchange. I will think differently once you give me something to think differently about. Until then the matter is settled - you are an admitted
demagogue.
***E says: How do you explain to yourself or others the process for arriving at that conclusion?
quote: I leave you in the hands of God.
Clearly you did not mean this as soon afterward you posted other messages to me in other threads clearly begging a response. Do you know what this tells me? It tells me that not only are
you unwilling to be truthful with me, you are also unwilling to be truthful with yourself.
***E says: Once again, my friend, your interpretation is borderline ridiculous.
------------------------------------------------
HisGrace -- posted December 19, 2005 04:09 PM
First of all, I can't find any personal information on this elusive John Smith, who is purported to be the director of JIGROP. On "his" site the 'f' word is used, and there is an article using the letters WTF, which doesn't sound very God-uplifting to me.
***E says: I am not surprised. Had you understood "Demons Deceive" -- you might not have taken the time to do a search. You are leaving the impression that you found the "f" word on the JIGROP site -- WHICH IS A LIE -- and you say there is an article using the letters "WTF" -- which is another LIE. The first time for a long time that "WTF" was seen with my eyes was a post done by chaoschristian making a mockery of JIGROP witnesses. (Please review above.)
From your site Tennessee Elijah-
TO CHILDREN OF THE WORLD
Children, just as the biblical prophet Malachi promised, God has sent Elijah to Planet Earth. The Spirit of Elijah was put into the body of James Reesor at his birth in 1938.
Children, the Holy Spirit came to James in 1974 to tell him that he was Elijah. In 1982, his Elijah Proclamation was broadcast over WNAH Radio in Nashville, Tennessee. A few people who heard that program made reference to Elijah as "The Man from Tennessee." He is now known to many people in the world as "Tennessee Elijah"
***E says: This portion of a larger message is accurate.
I don't think so This sounds like channeling to me, which is of the occult. Please clarify your
position Tennessee Elijah.
***E says: It might sound like "channeling" to you, but that does accurately explain the Spiritual realilty of my experience. The word "incarnate" more closely describes what has happened in my case. If you are seriously interested, there are about 300 pages on my web sites filled with graphics and words for people with a computer. A small portion of the "Elijah" controversy is found when clicking the "Elijah & Bible" link at the "Elijah Reading Room" page.
http://www.tennesseeelijah.com/elijah_bible.html
Let's not forget God's precious gift to us in this blessed Christmas season -
***E says: Merry CHRISTmas!
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that
saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee
living water.
***E says: Some loved Him; Some hated Him.
------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Elijah -- posted December 20, 2005 06:55 AM
"But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord
Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be ...mockers... in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the ...Holy Ghost..., Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Jude 1:17-23
Christians, Wise Up!
"Mockers" who speak against the "Holy Ghost" are doomed to spend eternity in Hell! If you see
this happening in your church or on this message board, it would be better for Christians to ignore them rather than maintain friendship with enemies of God -- who have no chance of redemption.
They will remain under the dominion of Satan -- no matter how nice you are to them. While they
are seducing you with their nice pictures, cartoons, clever jokes, and superficial personalities that come across as being very neighborly, your soul is being corrupted just like theirs! In other words, it is too late for their "soul" to be saved.
Forbidden Sin
"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies
wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the ...Holy Ghost... hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." Mark 3:28-30
Jesus is God, repent or perish!
------------------------------------------------
chaoschristian -- posted December 20, 2005 07:04 AM
To Tennessee Elijah:
Rather than throwing yourself on the sword of martyrdom, why don't you just respond to the
questions that were directed at you.
***E says: I find it alarming that you could read the above verses and then respond as you did. Those verses and my comments have nothing to do with my personal "martyrdom" -- but it has to do with those who fail to respect the divinity of Christ or the purity of the Holy Spirit -- which is actively engaged in my life and in the lives of millions who serve Jehovah God.
Yet again, why should I or anyone else expect that of you, when you have clearly demonstrated
your skills at evading the issue.
***E says: In your warped way of thinking, you will disregard this effort I have made to explain a few things that needed to be put out on the table -- and will probably be bragging about how I took the "bait" you dangled out here to stir up discord. There are many like you out here in cyberspace who take great delight in their attempt to discredit me. As you can imagine, I leave them in God's hands -- right there next to you.
JIGROP!
Confirm JIGROP for Yourself!
--------------------
DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
Posts: 55 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Nov 2005
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