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Topic: Demons Deceive
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chaoschristian
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posted
Tennessee Elijah:
Rather than throwing yourself on the sword of martyrdom, why don't you just respond to the questions that were directed at you.
Yet again, why should I or anyone else expect that of you, when you have clearly demonstrated your skills at evading the issue.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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Tennessee Elijah
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"But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be ...mockers... in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the ...Holy Ghost..., Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh." Jude 1:17-23
Christians, Wise Up!
"Mockers" who speak against the "Holy Ghost" are doomed to spend eternity in Hell! If you see this happening in your church or on this message board, it would be better for Christians to ignore them rather than maintain friendship with enemies of God -- who have no chance of redemption. They will remain under the dominion of Satan -- no matter how nice you are to them. While they are seducing you with their nice pictures, cartoons, clever jokes, and superficial personalities that come across as being very neighborly, your soul is being corrupted just like theirs! In other words, it is too late for their "soul" to be saved.
Forbidden Sin
"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the ...Holy Ghost... hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." Mark 3:28-30
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Posts: 55 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
First of all, I can't find any personal information on this elusive John Smith, who is purported to be the director of JIGROP. On "his" site the 'f' word is used, and there is an article using the letters WTF, which doesn't sound very God-uplifting to me.
From your site Tennessee Elijah-
TO CHILDREN OF THE WORLD
Children, just as the biblical prophet Malachi promised, God has sent Elijah to Planet Earth. The Spirit of Elijah was put into the body of James Reesor at his birth in 1938.
Children, the Holy Spirit came to James in 1974 to tell him that he was Elijah. In 1982, his Elijah Proclamation was broadcast over WNAH Radio in Nashville, Tennessee. A few people who heard that program made reference to Elijah as "The Man from Tennessee." He is now known to many people in the world as "Tennessee Elijah"
I don't think so ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) This sounds like channeling to me, which is of the occult. Please clarify your position Tennessee Elijah.
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chaoschristian
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posted
This exchange is copied to this thread in the interest of keeping all of these related posts together in one place.
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Tennessee Elijah wrote:
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Chaoschristian, any subjective analysis of your interpretation of my posts would not confirm your suppositions.
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Actually, I think what you intended to say is that an objective analysis would not confirm my suppositions. Any subjective analysis would be biased either for you and against me, or for me and against you.
However, I did not engage in supposition:
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supposition
n 1: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence [syn: guess, conjecture, surmise, surmisal, speculation, hypothesis] 2: a hypothesis that is taken for granted; "any society is built upon certain assumptions" [syn: assumption, supposal] 3: the cognitive process of supposing [syn: supposal]
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Definition of Supposition
Post was edited by chaoschristian at this point in order to restore the link to Dictionary.com
I have more than enough evidence in your original post to say that you engaged in demagoguery. I also have supporting evidence in your complete refusal to address the issue and instead launch into a series of personal attacks on me, all of which taken together can be viewed as a concession on your part.
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It would be pointless for me to engage in argumentative dialogue with you -- or anyone else -- who seems to have an "agenda" which is not relevant to the issues we are discussing.
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Please clearly articulate what other agenda I might have other than to address the main issue in the original thread? Again you side-step the issue in favor of misdirection.
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Think what you will. Accuse as you desire.
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You leave me no choice through your refusal to directly address the main topic. Throughout this entire dialogue you have yet to once address the issue head on. Instead you attacked me on a personal level or attempted to misdirect the exchange. I will think differently once you give me something to think differently about. Until then the matter is settled - you are an admitted demagogue.
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I leave you in the hands of God.
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Clearly you did not mean this as soon afterward you posted other messages to me in other threads clearly begging a response. Do you know what this tells me? It tells me that not only are you unwilling to be truthful with me, you are also unwilling to be truthful with yourself.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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chaoschristian
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posted
Tennessee Elijah:
quote:
Quoting Chaoschristian: "...I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery...."
If you are going to accuse me of your version of "demagoguery" -- at least learn how to spell it correctly.
1. You posted this after you were to have left me in God's hands. Along with other posts directed at me, I can only assume that you did not really mean what you said, and that you have no intent to leave me in God's hands. Something that is really redundant to express, since I am in God's hands, and have been since before I was born. And so were you. Along with everyone else who was, is or will be blessed with life.
2. You've engaged in the Red Herring/Nitpickery fallacy. In other words, you are trying to distract from the main argument with protestations that are irrelevant or trivial. OK, I'm a sloppy speller. I should use my spell check. So what? It does not detract from my argument at all, nor does it help your case at all.
3. Evidence is mounting that you are taking this personally. Let me assure you that it is not. If you were to show up at my house in need of anything, I would provide it to you, freely and with the spirit that Christ demands of us.
That said, you are not off the hook when it comes to posting material that others might find objectionable. None of us are. And when I state 'find objectionable' I do not mean the insipid and PC 'feel offended by' but the very rational and concrete 'I object to what you say on the following grounds.' And if I do (as in this particular case) then I fully expect you to respond in kind - with a rational, well thought out counter argument that tells me why I was mistaken, or a concession. And if you prove me to be mistaken, then you can expect a concession from me.
However, you did not do that. You instead resorted to personal attacks and evasion of the issue. Then you abandoned the field by dimissing me, which by the way is a concession to my argument.
And let me just emphasize for your erudition, that throughout this engagement I have not once attacked you on a personal level. I have not attempted to bean you with the Bible Hammer, I have not questioned your Christianity, and I have most certainly not questioned your sexual orientation.
I have confronted you, and I simply cannot believe that you would not expect to be confronted if you posted what you did in your initial post in this thread. But maybe I am wrong, maybe you really expected everyone to simply agree with you and with what was said in your post. Maybe you posted what you did because you thought you had a 'safe' audience, and assumed that everyone would simply see it as you see it. And maybe, just maybe, the concept of a fellow Christian disagreeing with you is so outside your frame of reference that you have no experience in dealing with it and that that might account for your behaviour.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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Tennessee Elijah
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posted
Quoting Chaoschristian: "...I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery...."
If you are going to accuse me of your version of "demagoguery" -- at least learn how to spell it correctly.
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DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
Posts: 55 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Nov 2005
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chaoschristian
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quote:
You want me to demonstrate how I was not engaging in demagoguery with my initial post, or be honest and admit that I was? Am I supposed to waste time defending myself from your false accusations? Are you accusing me of dishonestly appealing to the passions, prejudices or popular desires of you and other readers of my JIGROP messages? Excuse me, Chaoschristian, what are you trying to prove with your confrontational, argumentative attitude against me?
I'm not trying to prove anything. Your initial post quite clearly shows that you are engaging in demaguogery. There are no qualifications or disclaimers with the post, so one is only left to believe that you support what is being stated in it.
What the post says is that anyone who does not believe and agree with a particular POV is demon possessed and/or a false Christian.
And since these statements are being made by John Smith, the Director of JIGROP Institute, and you are a vocal advocate of JIGROP and the person to post the 'article' in the first place, then I am provided with even more evidence that you did indeed support what is being said.
Do you disagree that this is a reasonable conclusion?
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The "scenario" version that I wrote to contrast what you had written did not come out of a heart filled with demagoguery as you seem to believe. You also accuse me of being patronizing and condescending. Why? Where did that come from?
I never said that your scenerio was evidence of demagoguery. My accusations of demagoguery are clearly aimed at the original post. In fact, my first accusation was posted before your scenerio. The second accusation also included a direct reference to the original post. So, my accusation of your demagoguery does not stem out of your scenerio, it stems only out of your original post.
And I derive my claim that you are being patronizing and condescending from this:
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To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in our day:
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."
Where is the church of the Laodiceans today? Are professing Christians in some places are part of this church? Are you a member in good standing in this church?
And this . . .
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The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When considering a potential witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to reach out to lost souls, the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had this person been more loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
And this (!), which unbelievably fell on the heels of your question about how I could possibly see you as patronizing and condescenging . .
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Are you having personal problems because of gender or sexual orientation? If you are, don't blame me. I am just an innocent bystander -- not your enemy.
First you take a swipe at me with your Bible Hammer, then you accuse me of not being a Christian, and finally you accuse me of being homosexual or gender confused!
Finally you have the audacity to claim that you are an innocent bystander when you were the one to submit the original post!
And the cherry on top of this delicious little treat is that you then claim not to be my enemy, after attempting to smear me with personal attacks, rather than responding directly to my original point.
If you cannot understand how any of this might be patronizing or condescending, then the concepts are beyond you.
I am only interested in whether or not you can or will refute my claim that you engaged in demagoguery when you posted your original article.
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Tennessee Elijah
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posted
You want me to demonstrate how I was not engaging in demagoguery with my initial post, or be honest and admit that I was? Am I supposed to waste time defending myself from your false accusations? Are you accusing me of dishonestly appealing to the passions, prejudices or popular desires of you and other readers of my JIGROP messages? Excuse me, Chaoschristian, what are you trying to prove with your confrontational, argumentative attitude against me?
The "scenario" version that I wrote to contrast what you had written did not come out of a heart filled with demagoguery as you seem to believe. You also accuse me of being patronizing and condescending. Why? Where did that come from?
Are you having personal problems because of gender or sexual orientation? If you are, don't blame me. I am just an innocent bystander -- not your enemy.
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DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
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chaoschristian
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Fantasy indeed.
Elijah Tennesse, it has not been my observed experience that those who advocate a JIGROP approach are ever as civil in their actions, attitude, demeanor or spirit as in your scenerio.
Is it possible? Anything is possible, but I have yet to see it or hear about it.
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The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When considering a potential witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to reach out to lost souls, the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had this person been more loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
Of all the patronizing, condescending . . .
Look, at least I'm honest enough you call you out and state what I think of your evangelical approach.
You on the other hand hide behind the dis-honest and fallacious approach of "oh, he's mean so he's not a REAL Christian."
Right.
Let's go back to my previous point:
Either demonstrate how you were not engaging in demagouery with your initial post, or be honest and admit it.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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Tennessee Elijah
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ELIJAH comments on this post: The person who wrote this claims to be a Christian. When considering a potential witnessing opportunity as advocated for JIGROP witnesses who want to reach out to lost souls, the "fantasy" scenario shown was influenced by ungodly thoughts. Had this person been more loving and kind, the "fantasy" scenario might have read like this:
I can tell, Elijah, you and I are going to see eye-to-eye on this great idea of yours.
This is what the typical non-Christian might hear when they encounter a JIGROP Witness . . .
[hypothetical situation]
JIGROP Witness to Man at the mall who asked the meaning of "JIGROP" when seeing the word on the T-shirt: "Thanks for asking. It is just a reminder of my favorite verse in the Bible -- John 3:16. It says, 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.' We Christians believe that anyone who fails to believe in Jesus will 'perish' -- just like the Bible explains. This acronym is a simple, one-word message that reminds all of us -- Jesus is God, repent or perish."
Man at the mall [what he actually imagines the JIGROP witness to be thinking]: "You are a nice person who has shown curiosity for the 'word' on my shirt -- and I respect you enough to give a polite response to your question. I'm going to verbally express my interest in you by sharing my faith in Christ -- which you may or may not have any knowledge of or familiarity with, and proclaim that no matter what you have spent your life believing, if you believe anything at all, I want to make sure that you consider the importance of serving what I believe to be the One true God. And I know this because I am a person who found it necessary to change my thinking many times in the past, repent of my sins, and to willingly struggle during each day of my life to remain true to the Lord I serve. Additionally, I'm now offering friendship, promising a way to experience eternal life in the Kingdom of God, and inviting you to take this witnessing card to remind you of our encounter here in this public place."
Man at the mall to JIGROP Witness: "Thanks for explaining your shirt to me. If you really love Jesus like you say, and you want people to repent of their sins so they will go to Heaven instead of Hell, you must be a good Christian. Where do you go to church?"
JIGROP Witness: "There are several great churches in our community I can recommend. I like visiting different places just to see how other Christians worship. During this past year, I had fellowship with the Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Assembly of God Pentecostals, and Grace Interdenominational on Vine Street -- just to name a few. Whatever church you decide to attend, please keep in mind that no church is perfect except for the 'Church' of God -- which the Bible speaks of as the Body of Christ."
Man at the mall is thinking as he listens: "This person with the 'JIGROP' shirt is sincere, and doesn't seem to have any selfish or competitive motives. I'm glad I took a few minutes to hear what he had to say."
Man at the mall says: "Ah, look, I have a lunch appointment I'm late for, but before I go -- I want to say I enjoyed talking with you. The next time I see 'JIGROP' on a shirt or cap, I'll remember what it means. I've always believed there was a God. Maybe I need to start reading the Bible more and going to church?"
JIGROP Witness: "Glad we could talk. Have a nice day!"
Man at the mall walks away after shaking hands, putting the witnessing card into his pocket, and wanting to remember the compassion shown by a stranger.
JIGROP Witness turns to see a pretty lady approaching with a smile, asking, "Excuse me, sir, what does that word on your shirt mean?"
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chaoschristian
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Finally, you didn't even attempt to respond to the heart of my original post, and instead you resort to an infantile personal attack.
Let me give you a second chance:
Why is it that outspoken proponents of demonic attacks and possessions never seem to site themselves as the victims of said attacks? Or groups that they might affiliate with?
It seems the message is clear that when the Democrats and other church hypocrites are accused of being beset by demonic forces, that whoever opposes those groups (let me take a guess, perhaps the GOP?) isn't beset because of their 'virtue.'
Let me ask another question. How is it any different if we substitute the word 'demon' with the word 'communist'?
You are engaging in demgoguery, admit it.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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chaoschristian
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Tennessee Elijah wrote:
quote:
To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in our day:
Do not patronize me with scripture or scriptual allusions. Put your little Bible hammer back in your toybox. Nothing bothers me more when someone deigns to attack another using scripture and does so in the most unintelligent and condescending manner.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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chaoschristian
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I can tell you and I are not going to see eye-to-eye on this.
This is what the typical non-Christian hears when they encounter a JIGROP Crusader . . .
[hypothetical situation]
JIGROP Crusader to Man on Street: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street [what he actually hears]: You pagan heathen! I'm going to verbally assault you with the name of a religious figure with which you may or may not have any knowledge of or familiarity with, and proclaim that no matter what you have spent your life believing, if you believe anything at all, YOU ARE WRONG. And I know this because I am wearing this t-shirt with an acronym on it. Additionally, I am now threatening you with physical death if you do not immediately get down on you knees, plea for mercy, and agree with what I am saying!"
Man on Street to JIGROP Crusader: "WTF?"
JIGROP Crusader: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street hears: "I have spent so much time allowing myself to be indoctrinated with this JIGROP crusade thing, that I forgot to think through what to say if someone actually responds to me and now all I can do is repeat myself."
Man on Street says:"Ah, look, I have a lunch appointment I'm late for . . . I gotta go."
JIGROP Crusader: "Jesus is God! Repent or Die!"
Man on Street hears: "I am insane."
Man on Street leaves, wanting to forget the whole thing and begins to reconsider the invitation to church a friend offered him, since Man on Street now wants nothing to do with such lunatics.
JIGROP 'Ambassador'[frantically waving arms around]: "Wait! Wait . . . God is love!"
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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Tennessee Elijah
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To "Christians -- Chaoschristians" the church of the Laodiceans, God has this to say in our day:
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."
Where is the church of the Laodiceans today? Are professing Christians in some places are part of this church? Are you a member in good standing in this church?
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DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
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chaoschristian
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Was this written by the Christian version of "The Onion"?
Seriously, why is it that those who are really outspoken about demonic forces attacking American are also most likely to say that 'fill-in-the-blank-group-who-I-perceive-is-opposed-to-my-POV' are the ones that have been possessed.
That is the equivalent of saying, who ever doesn't agree with me is demon possessed and going to hell. Which, sad to say, is what too many Christians are willing to do, and even more sadly, has become one of the leading stereo-types of Christians by non-Christians.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to reconcile Christianity to the world. The world and Christianity cannot reconcile. But, is this the message we really want to send to the world?
Oh, wait, I forgot - JIGROP!
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
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Tennessee Elijah
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A systematic effort by demons to penetrate the souls of Americans stems most likely from the pit of Hell, the head of a leading Christian institute said. The attacks have been traced to Satan in the state of California, and the techniques used make it appear unlikely to come from any other source than the enemies of Christ, said John Smith, the director of the JIGROP Institute, an education and research organization focusing on salvation of souls.
"These demonic attacks come from a group with intense discipline. No other organization could do this if they were not a spiritual organization," Smith said in a conference call when announcing a new education program.
In the attacks, Smith said, the perpetrators "were in and out of consciousness with no apparent errors, and created an obsession for sin in less than 30 seconds. How can this be done by anyone other than deomonic forces controlled by the Evil One?"
Smith said that despite what appears to be a systematic effort to target liberal Democrats and hypocrites in varioius Christian groups, defenses have remained weak in many areas.
"We know about major penetrations of politicians in key cities," he said.
Security among private-sector casual Bible readers may not be as robust, said Smith, because "they are less willing to use their faith to resist spiritual attacks."
Smith said the strategy preferred by typical Christians appears to be to downplay the attacks, which has not helped the situation.
"We have a problem within millions of souls that have been terribly and deeply penetrated throughout the United States -- and in most nations of the world ... and we've been keeping it secret," he said.
"The ones who benefit most from keeping it secret are the attackers."
Although Smith said the demons probably have not succeeded in overcoming people of true faith in Lord Jesus Christ, who are accustomed to fighting off bad thoughts created by negative thinking, it is possible they compromised "extremely sensitive" inspirational information.
He said it has been documented that messages from prophets have been ignored, misunderstood or simply rejected due to ignorance brought about by deception.
Famous Spiritual leaders confirmed earlier this year that Christian websites are probed hundreds of times a day by demon-possessed Antichrist supporters, but maintained that no real harm has been done in their struggle to destroy the Kingdom of God.
Supporters of the JIGROP campaign have code-named their newest effort against Satan "Jesus Power" and have made some strides in counter-hacking to identify their humans enemies who are aiding the attackers, Smith said. This was first reported by Reality magazine.
Smith said a series of attacks on Music City Revival and the Elijah Jesus Club reported earlier this year may have been started against other Christian organizations, but they seem to be using different techniques.
In most nations of this world, Smith said there are some areas of improvement on the side of righteousness, because prophets are starting to fight fire with fire. But Smith argued that "the fundamental error is that our spiritual security strategy has relied too much on our own strength instead of leaning upon the power of our Maker."
It seems that even a few of those who claim to be Christians are not able to distinguish parables from fiction or polls from deception.
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DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
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