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Topic: What are the most important problems facing the church today?
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chaoschristian
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Member # 5273
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posted
helpforhomeschoolers:
If I've read your post correctly, then your contention is that Christians have no responsibility to care for non-Christians, or to come to their aid.
Do I have this correct?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
I contend the one of the greatest problems facing the church today is a collective unwillingness to get off our theological read-ends and actually address, in a definitive, systematic and determined way, such things as poverty, inequality, war, health care, elder care, racism, nationalism, to name but a few
If you are going to contend this, then I would hope that you could show some examples of this being done or taught by Paul or the other apostles to the Apostolic church!
Careful reading in context of the scriptures that speak to the feeding and visiting and watering of Jesus' brethren reveals some interesting truths... the people who did these things and are being separated as sheep from goats are not believers... they are not the church and they are unaware of the fact that they do these things for Jesus' brethren. That should tell you something about who these are and when this separation occurs.
I contend that there is not a single example in the NT of Paul or the Apostles teaching or the Church t6aking issue with Nationalism, War, or inquality. Further, when there is issue taught or taken in the Apostolic Church with poverty, helathcare or eldercare, it is taken with regard to those who are within the church. The churches in Asia took collection for the Poor Christians in Jerusalem for example. There is not a single inatance of Paul or any other preacher of the Gospel in the NT feeding or clothing those who were outside the "Church". Before the church was, when Jesus gave to the poor, HE gave to the Poor Jew who were at the time the "Kingdom". Never ever does Jesus command the church to go and solve the physical social issues of the heathen. Jesus commanded the preaching of the Gospel to the poor, because the Gospel was the way into the Kingdom, and when those who are without the Kingdom come into the Kingdom those within the Kingdom who are not without are to distribute according to their need.
Seek YE FIRST the Kingdom!
Yes, Dale and Drew, Amen... you have hit the nail squarely on the head, in more than one way!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Caretaker has hit the nail squarely on the head!
quote:
The willingness by so many to compromise the Truth of God for the sake of worldly accomadation.
The "Church" I put the name in parenthesis because I question if it is the real Church.
Instead of feeding and clothing the poor and needy
The 401c3 Church is only interested in acquiring wealth and power as did the Roman Catholic Church
Building big, fancy buildings, gymnasiums and other stuff to make the flesh feel good.
Compromising the “Truth”……
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
We must strive to be devout, just, and blameless in the sight of a sinful world. God forbid that any soul should stumble because they see what they perceive to be hypocrisy in our lives. ~ Ray Comfort
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by chaoschristian:
How do you expect to save a starving man's soul? Do you preach the Gospel to him first, so that you might save his soul before he starves to death, or do you share your bread first so that he might know you as a friend and be more ready to hear and receive the Gospel?
Excellant point!! A lot of people think that the whole burden is on them to set people straight. We have to let God be God when we plant seed. At least give him some credit for dealing with their hearts.
When the crippled man was sitting beside the pool of Bethsheda, Jesus didn't admonish with "No wonder you have never been healed you low life, you are a wicked sinner." But instead FIRST with his usual compassionate way He asked "Do you want to be healed?" Immediately he was healed and THEN Jesus said "Go and sin no more."
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Tennessee Elijah
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Member # 5277
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posted
One of the "problems" people have is being able to tell the difference between the true "Church" and the thousands of churches that falsely come in the name of the Lord.
To specifically answer your question, there is nothing wrong with the "Church" -- but there are many things wrong with churches who fail to grasp the reality of God, His Holy Word, and the significance of His commandments given to us through His servant Moses.
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DO A WEB SEARCH TO FIND JIGROP
Posts: 55 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Nov 2005
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chaoschristian
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Member # 5273
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posted
quote:
The founders of the Social Gospel Movement had largely lost hope relative to the hereafter; hence, they became increasingly preoccupied with the present.
Who do you consider the founders to be?
Didn't Jesus also say to do unto the least of these as you would do unto me?
Did he not admonish us to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, care for the sick, etc - and even warn us that he would seperate the sheep from the goats based upon this?
How do you expect to save a starving man's soul? Do you preach the Gospel to him first, so that you might save his soul before he starves to death, or do you share your bread first so that he might know you as a friend and be more ready to hear and receive the Gospel?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
The social gospel is a system that places the emphasis on the present and physical. The social gospel is more interested in telling man how to enhance his physical, economic, and mental state than it is regarding his soul and life ever after. Churches that have embraced the social gospel have as their primary mission the feeding and filling of men's stomachs rather than the providing for man's spiritual needs and salvation.
The social gospel was begun in liberalism and infidelity. The founders of the Social Gospel Movement had largely lost hope relative to the hereafter; hence, they became increasingly preoccupied with the present. Many of these men had ceased to believe in the inspiration of the scriptures and the sufficiency of the Bible to prepare one for life eternal (cp. 2 Tim. 3: 16, 17). However, the emphasis of the scriptures is clearly the world to come. Hear Peter:
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (I Pet. 1: 3, 4).
The social gospel distorts the basic nature of Christ's mission. In a word, Jesus came to save men spiritually (Matt. 1: 21, I Tim. 1: 15). Jesus is not seen in the scriptures as a social worker. To those who followed him for material or social reasons, Jesus said:
"Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed" (Jn. 6: 27, see vs. 26).
The social gospel corrupts the nature of the gospel. The essential nature of the gospel is spiritual. Hence, Paul could mention to the Corinthians that he, "…had sown unto you spiritual things…" (I Cor. 9: 11). The primary goal of the gospel is not sublimating man's material standard of living, but saving his soul (Rom. 1: 16). For instance, when Paul arrived in Athens Greece, he did not set up a social order or mission, but he preached the gospel to those people (Acts 17: 16ff.).
The social gospel perverts the nature and mission of Jesus' church. As one considers the church recorded in the New Testament, the church Jesus said he would build, the emphasis is on the spiritual. The church is, "…the pillar and ground of the truth" (I Tim. 3: 15). The church is seen preaching the gospel to sinner and saint alike (Acts 13: 3ff., Eph. 4: 15, 16). The work of preachers was that of, "Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Tim. 4: 2). The grave concern was that God's people would not remain doctrinally and morally sound (2 Tim. 4: 3ff.).
When questioned by Pilate as to the nature of his Kingdom, Jesus said, "…My kingdom is not of this world…" (Jn. 18: 36). "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink: but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit," wrote Paul (Rom. 14: 17).
The social gospel changes the one hope of the gospel. The apostle wrote, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling" (Eph. 4: 4). The one hope of the Christian's calling is heaven, not some utopia on earth or some "ideal social order" (I Pet. 1: 4). In this vein, the social gospel breeds worldliness, but "…the world passeth away…" (I Jn. 2: 17). The Christian is taught to not become too attached to this world, seeing Christians are "strangers and pilgrims" (I Pet. 2: 11).
Much of the affirming church movement are caught-up in the social gospel, as they ordain homosexuals, support abortion, and other liberal issues. The Word of God becomes arbitrary to man's perception, and is reinterpreted when it conflicts with their agenda.
The social gospel declares love your neighbor as primary, and in their faith and practice have essentially rejected, "love the Lord thy God", as they denigrate His eternal truth.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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chaoschristian
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Member # 5273
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posted
Please, can you explain what you mean by this:
quote:
The social gospel and compromise with heresy has infected the Body like a cancer, and too many are lost in apostasy.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
The Great Commission from our Lord Jesus Christ:
Matthew 28:
18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The overriding imperative is that the lost must come to Christ Jesus for salvation, for He is the ONLY way to God, and in rejecting Christ the lost stand condemned already.
The social gospel and compromise with heresy has infected the Body like a cancer, and too many are lost in apostasy.
Conversation with someone who says that they are a good person:
"Have you ever told a lie" "yes"
"what does that make you?" "a liar I guess"
"Ever stolen anything, even something small" "Yes"
"What does that make you" "a theif"
"Jesus said if you look with lust on someone, you've commited adultery with them in your heart. Ever looked with lust at someone" "yes"
"So by your own admission you're a lying thieiving adulterer and you have to face a Holy and Perfect God on Judgement Day..."
Romans 3:10-12
As it is written: "There is none
righteous, no, not one; There is none
who understands; There is none who
seeks after God. They have all turned
aside; They have together become
unprofitable; There is none who does
good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the
glory of God
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin
entered the world, and death through
sin, and thus death spread to all men,
because all sinned
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the
gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus
our Lord.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love
toward us, in that while we were still
sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:8-11
But what does it say? "The word is
near you, in your mouth and in your
heart" (that is, the word of faith which
we preach): that if you confess with
your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe
in your heart that God has raised Him
from the dead, you will be saved. For
with the heart one believes unto
righteousness, and with the mouth
confession is made unto salvation. For
the Scripture says, "Whoever believes
on Him will not be put to shame."
Romans 2:4
Or do you despise the riches of His
goodness, forbearance, and
longsuffering, not knowing that the
goodness of God leads you to
repentance?
Romans 6:3-7
Or do you not know that as many of us
as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we
were buried with Him through baptism
into death, that just as Christ was raised
from the dead by the glory of the
Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life. For if we have been
united together in the likeness of His
death, certainly we also shall be in the
likeness of His resurrection, knowing
this, that our old man was crucified
with Him, that the body of sin might be
done away with, that we should no
longer be slaves of sin. For he who has
died has been freed from sin.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
We must admit that we are a sinner:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Be willing to turn from sin (repent):
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Believe that Jesus Christ died for you, was buried and rose from the dead Romans 10:9-10
Through prayer invite Jesus into your life to become your personal savior:
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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chaoschristian
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Member # 5273
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posted
Thank you for your responses.
I contend the one of the greatest problems facing the church today is a collective unwillingness to get off our theological read-ends and actually address, in a definitive, systematic and determined way, such things as poverty, inequality, war, health care, elder care, racism, nationalism, to name but a few.
Can any one of use honestly claim that the church is known today for its critical stances on issues of social justice the way it has been known in the past? I know that we can point to specific examples, but these are small islands in a larger see of apparent apathy.
The church is hiding in its Bible-loving belly-button and ignoring a critical aspect of its mission - go forth.
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by chaoschristian:
What are the most important problems facing the church today? Straight forward question. What are your thoughts?
~I belong to a church which teaches the importance of having the mind of Christ. How many churches can say they really seek Christ's face?
If we become more like Him, divisions among the body of Christ, which I see as the second problem, will be mended.
1 Cor. 1:10-17 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas[a]"; still another, "I follow Christ."
Is Christ divided?[/b] Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.
(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power
~Oh, to have the mind of Christ -
Mark 6:34 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. So he began teaching them many things.
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
Amen TG!!! Reminds me of that song The Anchor holds in spite of the Storm. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Also the WOF which is birthing many Christians who are bottled fed babies, who are not being taught the meat of the Word. Like the seed falling on shallow ground, the first wind storm will blow their faith away. Yes, it sounds good to hear that you will be wealthy, healthly, and happy if you accept Jeus. But that is not the life that Jesus promised us. He promised to be with us through the storms. But He does not always remove the storm.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
The willingness by so many to compromise the Truth of God for the sake of worldly accomadation.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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chaoschristian
Advanced Member
Member # 5273
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posted
What are the most important problems facing the church today? Straight forward question. What are your thoughts?
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Why are you reading my bio when you should be paying attention to the post?
Posts: 109 | From: Snack Food Capital of the World (Hanover, PA for those of you who don't know) | Registered: Nov 2005
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