|
Author
|
Topic: Lord of the Rings
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Favor Minded, My daughter forgot to log off, and I did not catch it untill I had already posted.
In your above post on legalism, to whom was it addressed if not to those that oppose "Lord of the Rings"?
I am sorry if I misunderstood.
Be Blessed
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Favor Minded
unregistered
|
posted
I don't like Lord of the Rings either, and I am not a legalist...
I did not once here promote this Movie, so help me understand why you are addressing me?
What made you think I liked Lord of the Rings???
IP: Logged |
|
|
Servant
Advanced Member
Member # 1795
|
posted
Hello Favor Minded,
I am sure Jesus would have enjoyed "Lord of the Rings". I can see Him now setting with His disciples eating popcorn, drinking a coke, talking about the beautiful imagery of unselfishness and how good overcome evil?
Not in my wildest imagination can I see that.
It is a sad thing to be a legalist. They have no peace always trying to be good enough to be accepted by the Heavenly Father.
But anyone living according to the pleasure of this world will never be part of Yahweh’s eternal Kingdom.
Anyone that is not being daily transform, by dying to self and this world will never be part of that Kingdom of Yahweh.
Anyone that loves this world or the thing of this world the love of the Father is not in them.
“Lord of the Rings” is loved by this world.
If there were a hint of the True Gospel in “The Lord of the Rings” the world would not even come close to it.
The Scriptures say the blind the blind and the both fall in the ditch.
My eyes are open to see clearly the devises of Satan. Maybe Yahweh will grant you repentance if you ask call upon His abundant mercy.
I agree with this article I have not searched their entire site of what they believe. I was accused of agreeing with another web site on something I did not agree. I only agree with what I post, because I have read its entirety. I guess I will have to put disclaimers with all my post from now on.
TOLKIEN AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS
Updated November 20, 2002 (first published February 5, 2002) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI
48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org;) -
In spite of the PG-13 rating and occultic imagery, these movies and their literary counterparts are being praised by some professing Christians. Christianity Today ran a positive review of the books and the movie entitled "Lord of the Megaplex." Focus on the Family praised Tolkien's fantasies and promotes the book "Finding God in the Lord of the Rings" by Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware (Tyndale House). The glowing advertisement at the Focus on the Family web site calls fantasy a "vehicle for truth" and says: "In Finding God in the Lord of the Rings, Kurt Bruner and Jim Ware examine the 'story behind'
the stories - the inspirational themes of hope, redemption and faith that Tolkien wove into his classic tales." World magazine's review is titled
"Powerful Rings" and claims that the "movie version of Tolkien's book speaks to today's culture." There is no warning in these reviews about Tolkien's occultic imagery.
HARMLESS FANTASY, WHOLESOME ALLEGORY?
Is the Lord of the Rings harmless fantasy or perhaps even a wholesome Christian allegory? We think not. I read The Hobbit and the three volumes of The Lord of the Rings in 1971 when I was in Vietnam with the U.S. Army. I was not saved at the time, and, in fact, I was very antagonistic to the Christian faith. Had the books contained even a hint of Bible truth, I can assure you that I would not have read them at that particular point in my life. I had forgotten many of the details of the books, so I refreshed my memory recently by going through them again. They are filled with occultic imagery, such as wizards and such things; and though these are strongly and unconditionally condemned in the Bible, they are often portrayed as good and desirable by Tolkien. Many of the heroes of the Lord of the Rings, in fact, are wizards. The books were published in inexpensive paperback editions in the late 1960s, and they became very popular with that generation of drug headed hippies.
THE AUTHOR OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS
The author of the Lord of the Rings, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, was born in South Africa in 1892, but his family moved to Britain when he was about 3 years old. When Tolkien was eight years old, his mother converted to Roman Catholicism, and he remained a Catholic throughout his life. In his last interview, two years before his death, he unhesitatingly testified, "I'm a devout Roman Catholic." J.R. Tolkien married his childhood sweetheart, Edith, and they had four children. He wrote them letters each year as if from Santa
Claus, and a selection of these was published in 1976 as "The Father Christmas Letters." One of Tolkien's sons became a Catholic priest. Tolkien
was an advisor for the translation of the Roman Catholic Jerusalem Bible.
As a professor of literature at Oxford University, Tolkien specialized in Old and Middle English and loved ancient pagan mythology. His first fantasy
novel, The Hobbit, appeared in 1937, and The Lord of the Rings, in 1954-55. Several others were published later, some posthumously.
One of Tolkien's drinking buddies was the famous C.S. Lewis. They and some other Oxford associates formed a group called the "Inklings" and met regularly at an Oxford pub to drink beer and regale about literary and other matters. Tolkien, in fact, is credited with influencing Lewis to become a Christian of sorts. Like Tolkien, though, Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith, rejecting such things as the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ. And like Tolkien, C.S. Lewis loved at least some things about Catholicism. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest
(C.S. Lewis: A Biography, pp. 198, 301).
J.R. Tolkien died in 1973 at age 81, two years after his wife, and they are buried in the Roman Catholic section of the Wolvercote cemetery in the suburbs of Oxford.
THE STORY OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS
The setting for Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings is in "Middle Earth" and the hero is a little creature (a hobbit) named Frodo Baggins who accidentally
becomes possessor of a magical ring that is the lost and greatly desired treasure of the "Dark Lord Sauron." The story line revolves around Frodo's action-filled journey to take the ring to the Cracks of Doom where it can be destroyed.
OCCULTISM
Though the aforementioned reviewers would have us believe that Tolkien's books contain simple allegories of good vs. evil, Tolkien portrays wizards and wizardry as both good and evil. For example, a wizard named Gandalf is portrayed as a good person who convinces Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit to take a journey to recover stolen treasure. The books depict the calling up of the dead to assist the living, which is plainly condemned in the Scriptures. Though not as overtly and sympathetically occultic as the Harry Potter series, Tolkien's fantasies are unscriptural and present a very dangerous message.
TOLKIEN SAID THE BOOKS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN ALLEGORIES
In his last interview in 1971, Tolkien stated that he did not intend The Lord of the Rings as a Christian allegory and that Christ is not depicted in his fantasy novels. When asked about the efforts of the trilogy's hero, Frodo, to struggle on and destroy the ring, Tolkien said, "But that seems I suppose more like an allegory of the human race. I've always been impressed that we're here surviving because of the indomitable courage of quite small people
against impossible odds: jungles, volcanoes, wild beasts... they struggle on, almost blindly in a way" (Interview by Dennis Gerrolt; it was first broadcast in January 1971 on BBC Radio 4 program "Now Read On."). That doesn't sound like the gospel to me. When Gerrolt asked Tolkien, "Is the book to be considered as an allegory?" the author replied, "No. I dislike allegory whenever I smell it."
Thus, the author of The Lord of the Rings denied the very thing that some Christians today are claiming, that these fantasies are an allegory of Christ's victory over the devil.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now all I can really say is be careful. "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph. 5:8-11
'Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.' Lev 19:31
Another thing you need to get and understanding of the definition of “Grace”
--------------------
PHIL 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Posts: 59 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Favor Minded
unregistered
|
posted
A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A LEGALIST
"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;" Galatians 1:6
Have you ever swam in the ocean and been so distracted with the waves that you forgot to keep your eyes on the shore? It doesn’t take long before we can slowly drift down the beach without even realizing it, does it?
Legalism works the same way. It seeks to distract us from dependence and trust in Jesus to trusting in our performance. It comes at us at a hundred miles per hour, all day, everyday. It doesn’t jerk you abruptly over into its clutches. Instead, legalism slowly, almost imperceptibly, pulls us under until one day we turn around and we’ve lost sight of the shore.
A day in the life of a legalist is filled with trying to become and never arriving! He seems not to know that Christ means the end of the struggle for righteousness by the law for everyone who believes in Him so he fights bravely and hopelessly on!
Dwelling in a perpetual winterland of barrenness, where the cold blasts of condemnations and despair chill his soul, he rarely sees the sunlight of God’s love and acceptance! Clouds of doubt and fear overcast the Father’s face, which he imagines to be more critical than compassionate, frowning than forgiving.
A legalist’s day is usually joyless, lifeless, drab, and bound. He is slave to rules: what to eat, drink, wear, and where of where not to go. His life is nearly unbearable! Vainly thinking that doing will achieve being. He forgets that God says, “be ye holy.” Holy living flows out of holy being, but evidently he does not understand, so he strives and struggles to lay hold of righteousness that is forever beyond his reach!
Bible reading, praying, giving, and witnessing are usually looked upon as obligations rather than joyous opportunities for the building and exercising of his faith.
The pharisaical straitjacket he wears fails to make him holy and also fails to make him look like he is, so he is deprived of the joy of true holiness! (Allowing Christ to live His life through him.)
What is a day in the life of a legalist really like? Well, it usually bleak and troubled, self-righteous, or arrogant: it depends on his stance.
Mean or miserable, oppressive or oppressed, he cannot rejoice in a right relationship with God!
The un-kept vows, neglected duties, and disobeyed commandments afflict his conscience until his kind of Christianity is filled with pain!
From such religious slavery he needs to be freed, but until he sees Jesus Christ as the all-sufficient answer to his quest for holiness of heart and life, he will labor in his chains!
The legalist can be saved from his days of defeat and failure. And the Savior is the One who died for him on Calvary and was raised again so he can be saved by His life– He is the Liberator!
Legalism’s icy breath destroys the budding flowers of God’s grace, and thereby robs its followers of the possibility of the fruit of the Spirit! This humanistic religion, as old as the fall of man, deprives its disciples of fellowship with the Creator, while pretending to urge them on to holiness and victorious living.
Thriving on rules rather than a relationship, it often cloaks a rebellious spirit with the outer garment of seeming righteousness. But spiritual paupers robed in the royal purple of self-righteousness are paupers still!
The joy of the Lord and the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ are forever out of the reach of those who try to attain them by keeping the Law. "For as many as are of the works of the Law, are under the curse; for it is written: Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them." (Gal 3:10). And yet, multitudes attempt to gain holiness and peace by their own works!
Doing is the fruit of a right relationship with God; it is NOT the root! And the source of all right doing is right being. In Psalm 1:3, the words "He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water", precedes, "and whatsoever he does shall prosper."
Legalism is under the curse! Satanic in origin and devastating in its effects, it dominates great numbers of people with its tyranny.
Promising life but ministering death, it substitutes rules for the reality of Christ’s transforming love and grace. The counterfeit Christianity that results from this exchange is without life and power. Paul’s words to the Galatians- “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace (Gal 5:4)- are fitting and deserve to be remembered!
God’s grace is the only answer to sin! Sin’s dominion over us is broken when we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus and sheltered under the divine favor from the demands of the law. Grace that bestows mercy and law that demands death for every offender, are completely opposed- we can’t be under both! And, when we, by faith, accept God’s gift of righteousness, legal ties are severed, and victory is assured.
Martin Luther once said, “There is something about man that he is even more afraid of grace, than he is of law. He is wary, lest receiving the goodness of God should result in careless, sinful living!” Though God’s Word says we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works and reveals that Jesus is the author, and finisher of our faith, we somehow think that the salvation God began in us can only be continued by our striving to keep the law!
But struggle is not the way to prevail! "The just shall live by faith", is God’s prescription for justification and sanctification and is meant to be the lifestyle for all who would live holy. Furthermore, if the just shall live by faith and the law is not of faith then the just shall not live by law!
Statements like this scares the legalist, for they do not understand that men of faith achieve righteousness and holiness, while those who go about to establish their own righteousness do not!
IP: Logged |
|
|
Cameron
Advanced Member
Member # 1090
|
posted
I find it interesting that people love stories like Lord of the Rings that embody biblical principles, yet they want nothing to do with the ultimate source...the Bible.
--------------------
Why do we care what people think of us when we know what God thinks of us?
Posts: 332 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Endoxos
Advanced Member
Member # 2929
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I also thought the movie "Bruce Almighty" was a good movie. I didn't want to see it because I thought it was "blasphemous" A Christian friend told me about it, so I did watch it, and was blessed by it.
At first I thought so too. But as I watched it, it did make sense... not to speak the Gospel truth, but rather, a way to make us understand an infintesimal amount of what God has to go through every day... 'tis a shame it didn't touch on sin, though.
It's just one of those things a person has to be wary of... within everything meant to appeal to the secular, is a hint of leaven within the truth. Or a hint of truth within the leaven. Just have to sift through and pick out the leaven for the careful (and for the lazy, toss out the whole loaf).
--------------------
My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
[QB] Tyme, so if Yahweh is in me I can watch XXX porno movie and see THe lord?
If Christ is in you why would you want to even think of such a thing?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Endoxos:
[QB] WhiteEagle,
(keep in mind I don't want to debate because my memory is sorely lacking, though I have indeed read a few of Tolkien's books, particularly the Hobbit).
I remembered reading something about gods in Tolkien's books, and did a search for them. What I found sounds an awful lot like gnostic Christian teachings.
I've read some of the Similarin, and never finished it. I think I has some of that background of Tolkien's fictional creation.
Don't worry I don't want to debate. IMO there is nothing to debate.
I know what I know, and it doesn't in any way conflict with God's word. The Holy Spirit often will reveal Christ to us in many unexpected ways.
Sometimes in nature, just reflecting on how even life is a scientific miracle. Yet as a Christian I know it's God's work.
I don't take Tolkien's fictional works as Gospel.
So it's not even a debate. I see what I see, if others can't see it, then perhaps God will need to speak to them in other ways they can comprehend.
It's like Jesus telling parables to expound or enlighten more fully on the spiritual concepts He was teaching.
It's foolishness to be legalistic, as the Pharisees were. It not the letter of the Law, but the intent and heart that matters to God.
They didn't understand the Spirit of the Law, only it's legalism.
I also thought the movie "Bruce Almighty" was a good movie. I didn't want to see it because I thought it was "blasphemous" A Christian friend told me about it, so I did watch it, and was blessed by it.
It's basically about a man who is struggling with his life and blames God, and cries out that he could do better than God.
(If any Christian here denies ever doing that before they were saved, then I think they are a liar.)
God show up and gives Bruce limited Godly power for a period of time, except he can't change free will.
Bruce has fun at first, and then in the process of trying to get everything he wants, finds out he is really making his life worse.
(Man sets himself as God on throne every day)
Bruce finally comes to the end of himself and cries out to God asking for forgiveness and states he willing to submit to God's will.
An expectedly great movie.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tyme:
If you are with Christ, and Christ is with you, you will see him in all things your eyes gaze upon, and all things that come to your ears.
Tyme.
Tyme,
Thank you for your insight. God bless! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Endoxos
Advanced Member
Member # 2929
|
posted
WhiteEagle,
(keep in mind I don't want to debate because my memory is sorely lacking, though I have indeed read a few of Tolkien's books, particularly the Hobbit).
I remembered reading something about gods in Tolkien's books, and did a search for them. What I found sounds an awful lot like gnostic Christian teachings.
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm?http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/gods.html
(anything in parenthesis is mine)
"The host of spiritual beings brought into existence by Eru Ilúvatar (God, as in the ultimate creator God YHWH, the "Illuminated Avatar". Apparently "Iluvatar" means, in Elvish, "the Father of All"... now that could take on either a Christian connotation, or a Nordic one [One of Odin's names was "The All-Father"]...) before the beginning of the World. The Holy Ones were better known by their Elvish name - Ainur (pleroma, lesser gods, in which the God of Genesis is one of) - of which 'holy ones' is the English translation. These Ainur were the agents through which Ilúvatar created Arda, through their making of a Great Music (Sophia, wisdom deified, eventually the serpent in Eden), but that Music, and the World that sprang from it, was marred by Melkor (Iaboldoth, the God of Genesis.) After seeing a vision of the new world, many of the Holy Ones desired to bring it to fruition, and bound themselves to it to guide its formation and growth. The most powerful of these became the beings known as the Valar (Aeons), while the many lesser spirits that came to their aid were the Maiar (Archons), and perhaps other orders (the Demiurge, those who mixed with Sophia) as well. Ranged against them were others, who had in the beginning been Holy Ones themselves, but who had fallen into darkness: the Dark Lord Melkor (Iaboldoth), his mighty follower Sauron (Satan), and many corrupted Maiar, including the demons known as Balrogs."
--------------------
My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Tyme, so if Yahweh is in me I can watch XXX porno movie and see THe lord?
WhiteEagle, your fininal authority is not the Scritures, you do not want the Truth. I will continue to show the damnable teaching of "Lord of the Ring" "Loin the witch and the warddrobe" and all other trash that is deceiving this world and many so called Christians.
I do not have to take posion to know one day it will kill me. When I have consumned enough of it.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Tyme
Advanced Member
Member # 3017
|
posted
If you are with Christ, and Christ is with you, you will see him in all things your eyes gaze upon, and all things that come to your ears.
Tyme.
--------------------
I dream of a world.......
Posts: 527 | From: United States | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Whiteeagle:JRR Tolkein is a Christian and a friend of CS Lewis, who wrote the "Chronicles of Nardia", which also has magic involved.
Yes..I did write that because it's true.
Did you know the Bible also has stories about magic and people who did magic?
You aren't interested in the details of Lord of the Rings and how it handles the magic within it's story.
To you it's "bad" because someone else told you it was bad.
If you had read the books, then I could take you seriously. It's fiction. It has Christian principles all through the story.
I will not deny the Holy Spirit has used the movie to speak truths about Christ depicted in the movie. The Holy Spirit speaks of Christ.
The good people in the movie don't use magic and don't depend on magic. They follow christian principles to defeat the enemy.
The Elves are not humans, some people feel they could be more like angels, as they have special relationship with the fictional god of Tolkien.
They don't do magic, they just have abilities humans don't have, like angels have abilties humans don't have.
I only mention that because you mentioned the elves as evil becasue they did magic.
They were created with these giftings. Hobbits were a race of people who didn't have those giftings. Dwarves were another race without magical gitings, but had giftings to make things out of the rocks and caves.
It's a fictional story of different races of creatures coming together to defeat a common enemy.
Maybe like WW1 and WW2.
Any way don't be so quick to call something "evil" unless you really know.
Read the books, then you can talk about it.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
WhiteEagle, quote:
JRR Tolkein is a Christian and a friend of CS Lewis, who wrote the "Chronicles of Nardia", which also has magic involved.
These are your words.
Have you not read what the Scriptures say about magic?
Did you read any of my post?
The date of the publication is irrelavent.
The Old Testament is about 3500 years old and the New Testament is almost 2000 years old, but every word is for today.
Act 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all [men]: and they counted the price of them, and found [it] fifty thousand [pieces] of silver.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/curiousarts.html
Curious arts
(Acts 19:19), magical arts; jugglery practiced by the Ephesian conjurers
Ephesus was noted for its wizard and the "Ephesian spells;" i.e., charms or scraps of parchment written over with certain formula, which were worn as a safeguard against all manner of evils. The more important and powerful of these charms were written out in books which circulated among the exorcists, and were sold at a great price.
Q. What does the Bible say about witchcraft?
There are several Hebrew and Greek words which condemn the practice of witchcraft. In the Bible we find the words “witchcraft, divination, enchantments, mediums, spiritists, sorcery.” All of these practices are condenmed in the strongest terms.
Deut 18:10
"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer”
Deut 18:14
"For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so.”
2 Kings 17:17
“Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him.
2 Kings 21:6
“He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD provoking Him to anger.
2 Chron 33:6
“He made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben-hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger.
Nahum 3:4
“All because of the many harlotries of the harlot, The charming one, the mistress of sorceries, Who sells nations by her harlotries And families by her sorceries.
Acts 8:9
“Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
Acts19:19
And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Ga 5:20* idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Re 18:23* and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery..
The Scriptures condemn all sorcery as opposed to a proper sense of dependence upon God. In Galatians 5:20 witchcraft is listed as being one of the acts of the sinful nature. The book of Revelation contains several passages that condemn sorcery in the strongest terms (9:21; 18:23; 21:8; 22:15).
The Bible teaches that only God has the right to understand the realm of the supernatural (Gen. 40:8), and that intrusion into the realm of the occult makes one worthy of death (Ex. 22:18)(Also see Leviticus 19:31; 2 Kings 21:6; 23:24; 1 Chron. 10:13-14; Isaiah 8:19; 19:3).
It is interesting that several of the Greek words translated "witchcraft" and "sorcery" have the root pharm, from which our words "pharmacy" and "pharmaceuticals" are derived. This root (pharm) refers to "drugs, potions, and poisons." Those who are familiar with the practice of sorcery both among primitive tribespeople and "sophisticated" Westerners have noted that the drugs are often used to induce altered states of consciousness which, in turn, are claimed to bring increased knowledge, sensitivity, or even contact with spirits or "entities."(1)
We are in "The Last Days"
Yahweh said we are to be lover of Truth, if we are not there is a strong warning!
2Th 2:9-12
[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Well... all 3 movies have already been released.
Your press release on the money it made is about 2.5 years old.
All I know is that God can sanctify what He wishes to sanctify. Both my husband who is a Christian, myself, and some of our Christians friends have all testified to being aware of the Holy Spirit in parts of these movies.
Perhaps because we are Christian we see this movie/story through different "eyes".
Many people have claimed the Passion has stimulated conversions to Christ. I hope so.
I know God uses different things to reach the lost. I shy away from calling it evil, as time will tell, by it's fruit.
Paul has a verse somewhere, that tells about how some other preachers are telling the gospel, but they do it for money, or some other sinful reason.
He goes on to rejoice that the gospel is being preached regardless, as he knows that the Holy Spirit will work even , when the motives are not pure, if Christ is preached.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
WhiteEagle, please read what Tolkein had to say about "Lord of the Rings". He wrote it he should know what it was about. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Yeshua said "Love not the world, nor the things of this world"
Yeshua said many in that day, the day of judgement, Lord, Lord but He will say to them depart from me you worker if iniquity.
The popularity of "Lord of the Rings" to this world should be enough evidence for anyone.
The Lord of the Rings movie has made more than $260 million since its release on December 19; and in spite of its PG-13 rating and its occultic imagery, it and its literary counterpart are being praised by some professing Christians. The Lord of the Rings is the first in a proposed fantasy trilogy based on the books by J.R.R. Tolkien. The movie edition of the trilogy was filmed at a cost of $300 million, but as we have seen, that amount was almost fully recovered a mere two months after the release of the first episode; and the second and third parts of the trilogy are yet to appear. The television rights to the trilogy were recently purchased by WB network for $160 million. .....
One of Tolkien’s drinking buddies was the famous C.S. Lewis. They and some other Oxford associates formed a group called the "Inklings" and met regularly at an Oxford pub to drink beer and regale about literary and other matters. Tolkien, in fact, is credited with influencing Lewis to become a Christian of sorts. Like Tolkien, though, Lewis did not accept the Bible as the infallible Word of God and he picked and chose what he would believe about the New Testament apostolic faith, rejecting such things as the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ. And like Tolkien, C.S. Lewis loved at least some things about Catholicism. He believed in purgatory, confessed his sins to a priest, and had the last rites performed by a Catholic priest (C.S. Lewis: A Biography, pp. 198, 301) ......
THE STORY OF THE LORD OF THE RINGS
The setting for Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings is in "Middle Earth" and the hero is a little creature (a hobbit) named Frodo Baggins who accidentally becomes possessor of a magical ring that is the lost and greatly desired treasure of the "Dark Lord Sauron." The story line revolves around Frodo’s action-filled journey to take the ring to the Cracks of Doom where it can be destroyed. The individual titles of the trilogy are "The Fellowship of the Ring," "The Two Towers," and "The Return of the Ring."
OCCULTISM
Though the aforementioned reviewers would have us believe that Tolkien’s books contain simple allegories of good vs. evil, Tolkien portrays wizards and witches and wizardry as both good and evil. There is white magic and black magic in Tolkien’s fantasies. For example, a wizard named Gandalf is portrayed as a good person who convinces Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit to take a journey to recover stolen treasure. The books depict the calling up of the dead to assist the living, which is plainly condemned in the Scriptures. Though not as overtly and sympathetically occultic as the Harry Potter series, Tolkien’s fantasies are unscriptural and present a very dangerous message.
TOLKIEN SAID THE BOOKS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN ALLEGORIES
In his last interview in 1971, Tolkien plainly stated that he did not intend The Lord of the Rings as a Christian allegory and that Christ is not depicted in his fantasy novels. When asked about the efforts of the trilogy’s hero, Frodo, to struggle on and destroy the ring, Tolkien said, "But that seems I suppose more like an allegory of the human race. I’ve always been impressed that we’re here surviving because of the indomitable courage of quite small people against impossible odds: jungles, volcanoes, wild beasts... they struggle on, almost blindly in a way" (Interview by Dennis Gerrolt; it was first broadcast in January 1971 on BBC Radio 4 program "Now Read On…"). That doesn’t sound like the gospel to me. When Gerrolt asked Tolkien, "Is the book to be considered as an allegory?" the author replied, "No. I dislike allegory whenever I smell it."
Thus, the author of The Lord of the Rings denied the very thing that some Christians today are claiming, that these fantasies are an allegory of Christ’s victory over the devil.
TOLKIEN SPAWNED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS
Tolkien’s books created the vast and spiritually dangerous fantasy role-playing games that are so influential today. Dungeons and Dragons, which appeared in the early 1970s, was based on Tolkien’s fantasy novels. One fantasy-game web site makes this interesting observation: "The whole fantasy adventure genre of books came into play when J.R. Tolkien wrote his The Lord of the Rings books. From his vivid imagination and creative thinking he created the fantasy adventure genre. Tolkien probably got his ideas from ancient religions. Peoples of different civilizations were writing epic’s way before Tolkien was even born. They wrote epics about people with superior strength, about gods that punished people and, travels to the underworld. Tolkien is accredited to being the man who started it all but if traced back even further you'll see that he wasn’t the one that created it, just the one that pushed it forth."
This secular writer better understands what Tolkien’s books are about than the aforementioned Christian publications. Tolkien certainly did get his ideas from pagan religions, and the message promoted in his fantasy books is strictly pagan. ....
Information can be found at the following link in its complete form.....
http://logosresourcepages.org/rings.htm
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
One last thing for now. Catholic Bashing.
I'm not of the Catholic faith, nor ever been.
I cringe at Mary worship, and their icons of "saints". I disagree with much of their theology.
I also disagree due to what the Bible teaches: on some things that Baptists, Penecostals, Lutherans, and Methodists hold dearly as a tenet, that aren't taught in the Bible.
The Salvation message of Christ is the only thing that holds these all together. Many denominations either add things or detract things from the Cross, but regardless Christ is preached.
As I get older in the Lord, I can see that we all who are saved get saved by Jesus, in spite of whatever errorous doctrines a particular sect might hold dear. The Holy spirit can speak truth to a believing Catholic, as well as to you or any other true believer.
Many Catholics will be in heaven, just as many Baptists or whatever earthly church they currently attend.
I finally got saved in spite of being raised Baptist.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Is one an occultist when they believe the miracles in the Bible?
Elijah brought down fire from heaven through the power of God.
Jesus told the Pharisees:"If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?"
Matthew 12:22-33.
vs. 33 "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad. for a tree is known by its fruit."
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
From the post of Because Helives:
[QB] quote:
The movie version of The Lord of the Rings idealizes occultism and cheers the pagan practices used by "good" characters. Like Star Wars, Harry Potter and the world's pagan cultures, it seduces its fans into an imaginary world that pits "white" or benevolent magic against dark, evil magic. Both sides of this imagined "battle between good and evil" use occult practices that God forbids. [Deut 18:9-12]. Those who walk with Him, cannot delight in what He calls evil.
I don't know who wrote this, but occultism is not "idealized". I suppose that Moses parting the Red Sea, could be construed by some people as "white magic". Jesus healing the sick, lame, and demonics could be contrued to be "white benevolent magic". In Acts people were healed when even Peter's shadow fell on them. Is that "white magic"?
I could go on and on. Samson slew 1000 Philistines with the jawbone of an *** . White magic?
NO of course it's the Power of God!
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
Let me ask you this:
When I as a Christian look at nature, animals and science, through God's grace I "see" the marvelous Creation of Elohim. I can understand that God created all the so called laws of science, that man discovers after the fact.
Many scientists who are not believers seek to pervert the origin of the Creation. Evoluton: generally speaking as in the promodial slime to man theory is of course a humanistic/Satanic lie.
Does the fact that science has perverted the Glory of Creation, make me worshiping God and stand in awe of God for the creation,wrong?
Embryonic stem cell research is an abomination to God, as Jesus states about marriage;"What God has joined together let no man put asunder." A child is conceived by the union of the woman's seed with the man's seed.
The child is the component of the marriage union when the two shall be one flesh personified. More than just the sexual act.
This type of stem cell research is tearing asunder what God has joined together. First in our society we see marriage torn asunder by divorce, next in Satan's plan is the tearing asunder of the conception of marriages, the child in the womb, by abortion and no down to the cellular DNA level to tear asunder the unborn who were joined by God.
Can you understand this? Is it a perversion of truth?
I am asking you these seemingly unrelated questions, as they have to do with Spirit and intent, not law.
As under the law, people who are Christians may not have any problem with embryonic stem cell research or Evolution.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
"In making a myth, in practicing 'mythopoeia,' and peopling the world with elves and dragons and goblins, a story-teller .. is actually fulfilling God's purpose, and reflecting a splintered fragment of the true light."[2] J.R.R. Tolkien [emphasis added]
"...the thing seems to write itself once I get going...." The Letters of J. R. R Tolkien, page 91.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Harry Potter and Frodo Baggins, Tolkien's protagonist, will soon battle not only evil but also each other for the hearts and minds of a generation," wrote Brian Carney in the Wall Street Journal article, Tolkien runs rings around Potter, back in December. "If there is any justice in the world, Frodo should win."[3]
The race isn't over. Both studios bet their success on top-selling books and on the soaring popularity of myth, magic and mystical forces in our post-Christian world. Harry Potter's theme and thrills are simpler, more readable for today's visually oriented youth. But Tolkien's sophisticated mythology has gathered a huge following through the decades.
Both stories involve wizards, spells, mythical creatures and magic charms. Both demonstrate the battle between a mythical "good" and evil. Both pit heroic "white" magic against dark menacing occultism.
But Potter wields his "good" magic in an obviously occult setting with no claim to Christian symbolism. In contrast, Frodo, the hobbit hero of "The Lord of the Rings" lives in a world that supposedly reflects Biblical truth and Christ's redemptive love. But does it?
Does Frodo's suffering really represent the suffering of Christ? Does wizard Gandalf's self-sacrifice typify the crucifixion? Many Christian fans argue "yes." If they are right, what do these comparisons actually teach us about truth and redemption?
Or might this popular "gospel" be distorting God's truth? Perhaps Tolkien himself can provide some answers.
The man and his message. John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (1892-1973) was a man of many contradictions. For example:
Back in 1969, he wrote a letter affirming that "the chief purpose of life, for any one of us, is to increase according to our capacity our knowledge of God by all the means we have, and to be moved by it to praise and thanks."[4] Yet the primary focus of his life was his mythical Middle-earth, headed by a distant and impersonal "God" who might confuse rather than clarify the nature of the Biblical God.
In his personal letters (many are included in a book titled The Letters of J. R. R Tolkien), he expressed caution toward occult practices. But he equipped his team of mythical heroes -- the fellowship of the Ring -- with the pagan powers that God forbids. For example, "Gandalf [a helpful wizard] is able to wield potent magic... To do battle with the forces of darkness, Gandalf the Grey can call upon not only his spellcraft, but also his staff of power and the Elven sword Glamdring."[5]
A staunch Roman Catholic, he affirmed his faith in the One God who created the universe. But his mythical God stopped creating before the work was finished, then turned the rest over to a group of lesser gods or "sub-creators." In other words, Tolkien invented a hierarchy of deities that defied the Biblical God's wise warnings concerning both real and imagined idolatry.[6]
You won't meet those gods and spirits in The Lord of the Rings, for their creative work finished long before the current story began. But this strange creation story laid the foundation for all the other parts in Tolkien's many-faceted tale. It also helps us understand the author's thoughts and evaluate the message he spreads through his popular myth.
Dr. Ralph C. Wood, Professor of English at Baylor University and an expert on Tolkien's work, described those "lesser gods" or ruling spirits. Notice that the reigning God sounds more like the aloof deity of deism than the caring God of the Bible. Other "gods" would fit right into Norse and Celtic mythology (two areas of research that fascinated Tolkien):
"At the top stands Ilúvatar, the All-Father, corresponding roughly to the One whom Christians call God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth. From him all things proceed, and to him all things return. He is the beginning and the end, the One who shapes all events to his own purposes. He... only rarely intervenes in his Creation, preferring instead to work through... fifteen subordinate beings....
"Manwë, the Good and Pure.... is most concerned with air, wind, clouds, and the birds that fly. Manwë's spouse is Varda, the Exalted. She made the stars, established the courses of the Sun and Moon, and set the morning and evening star Eärendil in the sky. Thus is she known to the elves as Elbereth (Star-Queen) and Gilthoniel (Star-Kindler). She listens to the cries of both men and elves in order to come to their aid and succor.
Next comes Melkor ("He who arises in Might"). Ilúvatar gave to him greater power and knowledge than to any of the other Valar.... He desired to have his own power to create things out of nothing--to give them true Being--as the All-Father did. So he searched in the Void for the Flame Imperishable, disturbing the original Music which Ilúvatar had created to keep the Timeless Halls in harmony....
Ulmo ("pourer, rainer") is... lord of waters... he dwells in the Outer Ocean or in the waters underneath Middle Earth, governing the movement of all oceans and rivers. Ulmo cares greatly for the Children of Ilúvatar, advising them by direct appearances, by dreams, or through the music of waters....
"Irmo ("master of desire") is the author of visions and dreams...."[7] emphasis added
Together, Ilúvatar and the lesser gods suggest an unbiblical blend of impersonal monotheism and personal polytheism, for only the lesser gods become involved in the lives of the people. In contrast, Christian faith rests on a clear understanding of God as He has revealed Himself in His Word. He alone is Creator and Lord of all, and He continues to be intimately involved in the lives of His people. He does not delegate that Lordship to any other deity.
Of course, myths and stories can't be held accountable to reality. Unlike God's absolute truth, myths are changeable -- a timeless product of man's subjective search for meaning. Birthed in the human imagination and subject to human dreams, they are free to twist and stretch any "truth" they supposedly illustrate. We see this process in classrooms across the country, where the world's myths are altered in order to provide the "right" kind of models for the envisioned global spirituality. [See Establishing a Global Spirituality]
Tolkien, himself, assures us that he didn't intend to teach Biblical reality through his mythical fantasy. In a 1956 letter he wrote, "There is no 'allegory' -- moral, political, or contemporary -- in the work at all. It is a 'fairy-story' ... [written] for adults. 232 Later he continued,
"It is, I should say, a 'monotheistic but 'sub-creational' mythology.' There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers. These take the place of the 'gods', but are created spirits...."[8]
Yet, many Christians argue that Tolkien's spiritual hierarchy does indeed parallel the Biblical account. Even Tolkien, in spite of his denials, has compared parts of his myth with corresponding aspects of truth. But the obvious similarities tend to confuse rather than clarify Biblical truth. For Tolkien's myth twists Scriptures enough to change their meanings and muddle the true nature of God. Like the serpent's temptation in the garden, Tolkien's illusions of truth appeal to human feelings and may lead to deception.
For example, his elves and wizards -- the creatures empowered with magical skills -- enjoy the certainty of unconditional eternal life. But humans do not. Their lives -- with rare exceptions [9] -- must end with their physical death.
Instead of the Christian's hope of eternal life, Tolkien's world offers re-incarnation -- but only for a select group. This popular notion defies the Scriptures that tell us that "it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment..." [Heb 9:27] Concerned about this contradiction, the manager of a Catholic bookstore asked Tolkien if he might have "over-stepped the mark in metaphysical matters." Tolkien wrote this response,
"'Reincarnation' may be bad theology (that surely, rather than metaphysics) as applied to Humanity... But I do not see how even in the Primary world any theologian or philosopher, unless very much better informed about the relation of spirit and body than I believe anyone to be, could deny the possibility of re-incarnation as a mode of existence, prescribed for certain kinds of rational incarnate creatures."[10]
Since Tolkien denies any supposed allegorical link between his myth and Biblical truth, it's not fair to hold his stories accountable to that truth. Nor is it wise to continue claiming that they teach us God's truth. Those who do could easily be tempted to lower their guard, set aside discernment, internalize the fascinating suggestions and be drawn to occult images -- the opposite of God's warning in Romans 12:9: "Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good."
The movie version of The Lord of the Rings idealizes occultism and cheers the pagan practices used by "good" characters. Like Star Wars, Harry Potter and the world's pagan cultures, it seduces its fans into an imaginary world that pits "white" or benevolent magic against dark, evil magic. Both sides of this imagined "battle between good and evil" use occult practices that God forbids. [Deut 18:9-12]. Those who walk with Him, cannot delight in what He calls evil.
continued on web site
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/rings.htm
some more intresting links
http://www.google.com/search?q=lord+of+the+rings+occult&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
quote:
It is hated by Hollywood. Did you not watch the Academy Awards?
No I did not watch the Academy Awards. Why would I want to watch the world recognize its own?
The Passion is the first movie in about 12 years I went to see. "The Muppet's movie" about Scrouge was the last movie I went to see. Shortly after that we learned about Christmas and do not participate in that any more.
I will finish a little later, my computer is experiencing technical difficulties.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Satan appears as an angel of light
I have seen him in many forms,and not always evil.
I went and saw "The Passion" because I wanted to believe that something good come from the pit of hell, Hollywood.
I tried to defend it, but because I do love Truth. I listened to a brother that was deeper spiritually than myself. Now I know the Truth. While "The Passion" contains some Truth there is a mixture of this world in it that make the whole polluted.....
...Roman Catholic teachings are woven all through "The Passion". ..
True; we must beware of "angels of light".
Many of todays' preachers are such. They preach a "comfortable gospel". They preach what is conveinent and easy to hear. They have the form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. They deny that evil is in the world. Angels of Light boast of themselves, not Christ. 2Cor.3-14.
"The Return of the King" is an analogy to Christ returning to His Kingdom. IN the movie Aragon the King sings over the people. What other film have you ever seen a king sing over the people?
Only in scripture does our King, the Lord Jesus sing over his people. Zephaniah 3:17
"The Lord your God is in your midst, the Mighty One will save; He will rejoice over you with gladness. He will quiet you with His love. He will rejoice over you with singing."
Also in the movie/book the King's symbol is a White Tree. Akin to the Tree of Life. It blooms again after the king is crowned. All his army wears the King's Tree on their breast plates.
Aragon the king also meets his bride. (Christ and His Bride the Church)
I would tend to agree with you on the movie "The Passion of the Christ". It focuses on Mary too much, and it's Catholic view is foremost. I had a bad witness in my spirit after seeing the movie, and sense the "enjoyment" of Satan in seeing the torture of the Cross being shown on the screen. The resurrection scene was so brief and not highlighted well.
The Lord of the Rings does not preach another Jesus, as examples and images of His sacrifice are ever in the film, as the director, was true to the themes in Tolkien's books. Even to the truth that Christ set free those who died and were faithful before the Cross, as Christ went and opened the doors to Hades and the believers of the Promise were released.
In the story, Aragon, the king gives the dead soldiers who were once doomed, another chance for peace, if they fight for him. Aragon is only able to do this because he has the Sword of the king. We know the Sword as the Word of God.
I'll concede not all people are able to follow symbolism well or allegory well. We all will project onto symbols from our own pre-set biases.
Paul writes to Timothy in 1 Tim.4:4,5 "For everything created by God is good, and nothing should be rejected if is received with thanksgiving and prayer.
quote:
Like Mel Gibson, Tolkein and Lewis were Roman Catholic and their polluted lives are reflected in their writings.
CS Lewis was not a Catholic, he attended the Anglican Church. He was non-denominational, and formerly an atheist. JRR Tolkien had a role in his conversion to Christ. Tolkien was Catholic, but his writings follow the Bible, not Catholic tenets. Both men were talently brillant and I can see that God has influenced their writings.
Both men were WW1 veterans. Both saw the first of global conflicts that also shaped their perspectives. I see the LOTR as a wake-up call for all Christians to the coming battle, and a picture of the hateful evil and darkness quickly coming over the world. That is why I see the movie as a Godly and timely warning to all of us.
The evil hoardes are marching on God and his elect, even now.
Will we be like the evil "steward" of Gondor, that wished to overrule the Return of the King, or will be righteous warriors and stewards?
In the movie there was a crystal ball "Palantir" that only the evil ones used, No one on the side of good was to use it. The silly hobbit that did get curious, paid the price for not obeying Gandalf's warning. No characters on the side of good ever do any occultish things, only on the evil side. Tolkien doesn't present a "good" witch. That would be an "angel of light".
[QB] quote:
Is not it funny that Hollywood has never produced "Pilgrims Progress", and they never will unless they change its meaning and content. Pilgrims progress stand to illuminate the cross and death to self. The only demon characters you will find are those that are demon in nature and stand against Prigrim.
Actually in LOTR, the theme is similar. Many characters in the film are representations of "death to self". They loved not their life unto death. They fought the good fight.
[QB] quote:
Mel Gibson, Tolkein and Lewis were freinds of this world, the world excepted them and their writings.
But John Bunyan was hated for his faith and spent most of his life in prison for his faith.
The world is searching for truth. I know many non-christians that didn't even care about LOTR, and were not interested whatsoever. Or they think it's like Harry Potter. I know many Christians who see the movie as a witness for truth. Perhaps the movie isn't for the unsaved but for us who do believe, so we will be ready.
[QB][Quote}I will be praying that the eyes of your understanding be opened to the Truth.[/Quote]
And I you. We who worship God worship Him in spirit and in Truth.
[QB] quote:
Ask yourself one simple question?
If "Lord of the Rings" is of Yahweh, why does the world enjoy it, why is it not hated by the world?
It is hated by Hollywood. Did you not watch the Academy Awards? Yes it won many awards for special effects and music and for best film. But isn't it odd that none of the actors were given any awards? None. Not even runner up.
How can a film be a best film without having at least some "best actors"? The awards it won were grudgingly given.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
quote:
Anyway, don't call it evil, if you've never seen it.
Satan appears as an angel of light.
I have seen him in many forms,and not always evil.
I went and saw "The Passion" because I wanted to believe that something good come from the pit of hell, Hollywood.
I tried to defend it, but because I do love Truth. I listened to a brother that was deeper spiritually than myself. Now I know the Truth. While "The Passion" contains some Truth there is a mixture of this world in it that make the whole polluted.
Yeshua said a little leaven spoils the whole lump.
Roman Catholic teachings are woven all through "The Passion".
Like Mel Gibson, Tolkein and Lewis were Roman Catholic and their polluted lives are reflected in their writings.
Is not it funny that Hollywood has never produced "Pilgrims Progress", and they never will unless they change its meaning and content. Pilgrims progress stand to illuminate the cross and death to self. The only demon characters you will find are those that are demon in nature and stand against Prigrim.
Mel Gibson, Tolkein and Lewis were freinds of this world, the world excepted them and their writings.
But John Bunyan was hated for his faith and spent most of his life in prison for his faith.
I will be praying that the eyes of your understanding be opened to the Truth.
Ask yourself one simple question?
If "Lord of the Rings" is of Yahweh, why does the world enjoy it, why is it not hated by the world?
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Majic in any form is unaccectable for the child of Yahweh.
The Good News of the Gospel, is to set the captive free from what ever has a soul bound.
The wishy washy gospel of our day is far from the Truth.
The little children song of old has better doctrine and teaching that most pulpits.
Anything that uses demons for its main characters, I do not have to think twice about. It is against the Scriptures.
Have you ever read Tolkein's books? Did you see the movies? If not you can't critique them by hearsay.
JRR Tolkein is a Christian and a friend of CS Lewis, who wrote the "Chronicles of Nardia", which also has magic involved. CS Lewis wrote the "Screwtape Letters" which happens to have a demon as the main character. All of these books are about the forces of good and evil and a God who is over all. They are allogories and even Jesus used parables to express the Kingdom of Heaven.
It's not wishy washy by any means. The evil is real.
"Pilgrims Progress" is an allogory and it has many golden nuggets of truth according to the scriptures.
Unfortunately many people who don't understand; confuse Lord of the Rings as being the same type of thing as Harry Potter. It's not.
Harry Potter is about children who go to a school to learn magic and rely on magic to achieve triumph over "evil".
In Lord of the Rings people fight magic with the tools of spiritual warfare envisioned physically.
The have faith to stand,even when they may not win, they have courage and fear not, they continue to show love and compassion to others, they know that their physcial efforts aren't enough alone to win the battle. Someone, who in the movie is Frodo has to bear the Ring "evilness" or "sin" for all. (A picture of Christ) and cast it away in the fire.
Just as Christ died and rose again and cast our sins away after He was the sin-bearer for all.
Anyway, don't call it evil, if you've never seen it. God bless.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
Majic in any form is unaccectable for the child of Yahweh.
The Good News of the Gospel, is to set the captive free from what ever has a soul bound.
The wishy washy gospel of our day is far from the Truth.
The little children song of old has better doctrine and teaching that most pulpits.
Be careful little eyes what you see,
Be careful little ears what you hear,
Be careful little feet where you go,
Be careful little hands what you touch.
Be careful little children how you dress,
Be careful little children not to conform to this world, for the world is against the Lord Yahweh.
Anything that uses demons for its main characters, I do not have to think twice about. It is against the Scriptures.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bat Elohim:
Even in churches, people curse and talk dirty. Values are weakening.
May Yah save us all.
I've never been in a church that people cursed or talked dirty. I do agree that values are weakening as shown by the divorce rate among christians is as high as non.
I know the last of the three movies "The Return of the King" the Lord used especially to speak to me in an allorgorical way.
I know there was a "gollum" type person in my life at the time, and the movie really helped me to endure it.
The battles showed how they defeated the Dark Lord without Magic. He was defeated when the Ring of Power was destroyed and when the peoples of Middle earth refused to be blind to his evil.
They fought back.
The ring thrown into the Fire of Mount Doom represents Satan cast into the Fire, and his power is gone.
We as Christians need to cast our own personal "ring"/( sins) into the Fire by obedience to Christ. Our struggle to do so can be as difficult as Fordo's struggle and temptation to keep the ring.
Note that no Magic from Gandalf was used to aid Frodo in the end to accomplish the task.
The good people in the movie didn't use magic to combat evil, they used Truth. Even Gandlaf's staff of light represents Truth, not magic.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bat Elohim
Advanced Member
Member # 3739
|
posted
I could definitely see where Hitler's dark reign of terror could be an influence on this story.
I can also see where the world is heading as a whole. The darkness is spreading. Even in churches, people curse and talk dirty. Values are weakening.
May Yah save us all.
--------------------
Numbers 6:24 May ADONAI bless you and keep you. 25 May ADONAI make his face shine on you and show you his favor. 26 May ADONAI lift up his face toward you and give you peace.
Posts: 704 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bat Elohim:
My sister and brother-in-law are atheist and love all things "gothic" and "mystical". They loved the Lord of the Rings movies. If they had any inkling of an idea that they had Christian tones, they would not have watched them. They were surprised when I wanted to see them, because of the witchcraft/sorcery involved.
My atheist father gave me these books to read as a child along with CS Lewis books.
I believe that non-believers see the good in many things, but don't realize it is God behind it all.
Hi:
LOTR is a story that seems to interest many types of people.
Did you know that many people have said that since Tolkein wrote these books after WW2, that the story about the Dark Lord and darkness coming over the land was similar to Hitler's invasion of Europe?
I really felt the release of the movies was timely for us now.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bat Elohim
Advanced Member
Member # 3739
|
posted
My sister and brother-in-law are atheist and love all things "gothic" and "mystical". They loved the Lord of the Rings movies. If they had any inkling of an idea that they had Christian tones, they would not have watched them. They were surprised when I wanted to see them, because of the witchcraft/sorcery involved.
My atheist father gave me these books to read as a child along with CS Lewis books.
I believe that non-believers see the good in many things, but don't realize it is God behind it all.
--------------------
Numbers 6:24 May ADONAI bless you and keep you. 25 May ADONAI make his face shine on you and show you his favor. 26 May ADONAI lift up his face toward you and give you peace.
Posts: 704 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Endoxos:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Christian virtues such as compassion shown by Bibbo for refusing to kill Gollum after Bibbo found the ring.
Bilbo. Not Bibbo. ^_~
Sorry I know it's Bilbo, my finger must have gotten stuck on "b".
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Endoxos
Advanced Member
Member # 2929
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Christian virtues such as compassion shown by Bibbo for refusing to kill Gollum after Bibbo found the ring.
Bilbo. Not Bibbo. ^_~
--------------------
My signature is apisdn umop.
Posts: 362 | From: HELP! I'm stuck in a DOS window! | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Ripp
unregistered
|
posted
Hi Eagle
Unfortunately, I am sure that most people are incapable of making the connection. I was saved only 3 months ago so I have an interesting perspective on things. Looking back, I did not notice any biblical ideas nor would I have. Most people have minimal knowledge of the bible. I certainly wouldn't have seen the connection.
You know, before I was saved I don't think I saw God in many things if any. I was blinded by sin and was incapable of seeing the truth. I am sadened every day because I realize how lost I was and I see that in people every day. Even when you try and point out scripture, God or Jesus to them, they just scoff. Even if you were to pull out your bible and point out scripture that resembled the movie, not many would make a single connection ![[Frown]](frown.gif) . I pray every day for Jesus to reach souls through me in some way. Gradually I have had some effect on my co-workers but it is EXTREMELY tough. Sin is a difficult chain to break for people. And until you do that, you are blinded.
Take care Eagle, God bless.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
JRR Tolkein wrote the trilogy of books called Lord of the Rings. The movie version was excellent and followed his books closely. I read the books when I was in high school. The movie version was a success worldwide.
The Biblical themes and Christian beliefs are seen all through these 3 movies.
I wonder if the Rings had an impact on nonbelievers, or if they even noticed the Biblical themes.
The story gives me pictures of Christ as Joseph was a picure of Christ in the Old Testament. Many of the characters displayed some virtue of Jesus, not just one of them.
Christian virtues such as compassion shown by Bibbo for refusing to kill Gollum after Bibbo found the ring. Frodo also showed empathy and compassion to Gollum.
True loyalty and friendship between men that has NO sexual aspects(as seen in so many modern movies) Sam and Frodo's love for each other.
The war against evil. The values of fighting for a cause to the death, even though one might not win, shows true courage and faith.
How the enemy strives to deceive as the sorceror Saruman put a spell on the King of Rohan, and how Gandalf freed him.
The Riders of Rohan seemed like David's mighty men from the Old Testament.
I could go on, but I hope to hear back from others who saw these movies and get some more input on others' impressions.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
