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Topic: Rapture--A Dangerous DECEPTION
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Chaplain Bob
Advanced Member
Member # 5019
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posted
CAROL: Here are some of the verses you asked about. I believe God has shown me the true meaning of these verses over the last two decades. Verses where Jesus says “…no one comes to the Father except by me” like John 14:6 means “I am the only one who has provided a way for man to come to God” not “you must believe in me to be saved”. When the Bible says “…call on the name of Jesus” or “…there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved as in Acts 4:12 it is not saying it is the name of Jesus that saves as has been misinterpreted by many but it is saying “turn to Jesus (because of what He has done)”. It is Jesus’ sacrifice that makes possible man’s salvation not His name as some teach which has led to confusion and the question “what about those who never hear the Name of Jesus?” I struggled for decades over that question until one day God gave me the answer. He showed me Romans 1:19,20 and said mankind knows He is and anyone who refuses to turn to Him will be lost. He also told me that in John 3:16 where it says …”believes in Him…” should be understood “…believes in God…” as evidence that He has provided a way for those who never hear the name of His son to be saved. One of the most frustrating things in America today is the number of times we Believers are stopped by a court from praying publically in Jesus’ name. When Jesus said “…whatever you ask in my name….” He did not mean literally “tack my name on the end of your prayers”. What He was saying is “Whatever you ask the Father by my authority.” In other words He gave us the His authority to approach God in prayer . The prime example of this is what we call “The Lord’s Prayer”. When the Disciples asked Jesus “How should we pray?” He said “Pray like this, Our father who is in Heaven…..” and He did not end it with “in Jesus name”. He not only told us how to pray but to whom we should pray. If you’d like to discuss (not debate) this further perhaps you should start another thread as I don’t want to hijack this one.
As far as my understanding of who is “raptured” when Jesus returns to set up His Millennial Kingdom God sent me to Psalm 37 and Revelation 20:1,2,3,7,8 (the battle of Armageddon).
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Carol Swenson
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posted
At one point in the film they said that God may not care about football, but He cares about the faith of those players, and the coach. He rewarded their faith, and they gave Him the glory.
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
You believe the Millennial Kingdom comes first, so the Great Tribulation is at least 1000 years away.
I like Sherwood Films too. I think my favorite is Facing The Giants.
That's the way I understand what He told me. So we could be at the Kingdom'e doorstep (although no one really knows). "Facing The Giants" is my favorite too. Although it was panned by some Believers who said "God doesn't care who wins football games." They apparently missed the message "Do your very best and leave the rest up to God." What I loved about that film was the way they got the Gospel out without slapping you with the Bible.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
You believe the Millennial Kingdom comes first, so the Great Tribulation is at least 1000 years away.
I like Sherwood Films too. I think my favorite is Facing The Giants.
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
[/qb][/QUOTE]Bob, I too, along with Kindgo, would like to know where Israel fits into your belief. And I would also like to hear what other scripture you were told has been misunderstood. I hope you have the time to tell us, if you aren't too busy.
You reach out to the lost and to believers through cinema. Do you make your own films? [/QB][/QUOTE]
No I don't make my own films although I am a strong supporter of Sherwood Films. I spent a quarter of a century in the movie theatre business and it is my hope to one day be able to open a "family friendly" theatre which will include evangelical films in its programming. The Lord has not given me specific information concerning Israel but I am ASSUMING what happens to Israel occurs during the Great Tribulation. With the situation the way it is in the Middle East today I wonder just how far away that is. I'll list some verses for you a little later.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
To be a living witness for Him. "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel.....".
Bob, I too, along with Kindgo, would like to know where Israel fits into your belief. And I would also like to hear what other scripture you were told has been misunderstood. I hope you have the time to tell us, if you aren't too busy.
You reach out to the lost and to believers through cinema. Do you make your own films?
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
To be a living witness for Him. "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel.....".
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one interpretation.
Application is individual.
It is not Biblical to follow a voice to receive a
"Different" interpretation.
And to play the Master, hazardously steering others into the rocks, shows your true character.
It is not good to make shipwreck others faith with a false compass.
Proverbs 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
In other words if someone does not believe exactly as you do then they are not saved, right? Why are you so bitter and cynical Bill? There is no place the Bible says "God inspired the Bible then shut His mouth". Besides, what we are discussing here has nothing to do with a person's salvation (like most subjects people bicker about on Christian forums).
I only believe the Word of God KJV as enlightened by the Spirit, not some voice in my head.
I challenged you now concerning the spirit you are following and encouraging others to do so as well.
Nothing bitter about that!
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
I've already told you it's not my job to convince you of anything. But neither is it you job to tell me I do not hear from God. Besides, the "Rapture theory" is not something that came from God in the first place. If I ever gave you a Gospel that was different from what the Bible says in John 3:16 then you should be suspicious.
Interesting,
prey tell
What is your yob?
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That is all.....
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Chaplain Bob
Advanced Member
Member # 5019
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one interpretation.
Application is individual.
It is not Biblical to follow a voice to receive a
"Different" interpretation.
And to play the Master, hazardously steering others into the rocks, shows your true character.
It is not good to make shipwreck others faith with a false compass.
Proverbs 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
In other words if someone does not believe exactly as you do then they are not saved, right? Why are you so bitter and cynical Bill? There is no place the Bible says "God inspired the Bible then shut His mouth". Besides, what we are discussing here has nothing to do with a person's salvation (like most subjects people bicker about on Christian forums).
I only believe the Word of God KJV as enlightened by the Spirit, not some voice in my head.
I challenged you now concerning the spirit you are following and encouraging others to do so as well.
Nothing bitter about that!
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
I've already told you it's not my job to convince you of anything. But neither is it you job to tell me I do not hear from God. Besides, the "Rapture theory" is not something that came from God in the first place. If I ever gave you a Gospel that was different from what the Bible says in John 3:16 then you should be suspicious.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Bob, where do you fit Israel into all this?
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one interpretation.
Application is individual.
It is not Biblical to follow a voice to receive a
"Different" interpretation.
And to play the Master, hazardously steering others into the rocks, shows your true character.
It is not good to make shipwreck others faith with a false compass.
Proverbs 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
In other words if someone does not believe exactly as you do then they are not saved, right? Why are you so bitter and cynical Bill? There is no place the Bible says "God inspired the Bible then shut His mouth". Besides, what we are discussing here has nothing to do with a person's salvation (like most subjects people bicker about on Christian forums).
I only believe the Word of God KJV as enlightened by the Spirit, not some voice in my head.
I challenged you now concerning the spirit you are following and encouraging others to do so as well.
Nothing bitter about that!
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
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That is all.....
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
I'd like to hear some of those. But first, I'd like to be sure I have a clear understanding of your belief about prophecy.
1. The Millennial Kingdom
2. The Rapture
3. The Great Tribulation
4. Armageddon
5. Antichrist, false prophet, Satan cast into the lake of fire, and their army all destroyed
6. The New Heaven and New Earth
Do I have it right?
Yes.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Chaplain Bob
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Member # 5019
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one interpretation.
Application is individual.
It is not Biblical to follow a voice to receive a
"Different" interpretation.
And to play the Master, hazardously steering others into the rocks, shows your true character.
It is not good to make shipwreck others faith with a false compass.
Proverbs 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
In other words if someone does not believe exactly as you do then they are not saved, right? Why are you so bitter and cynical Bill? There is no place the Bible says "God inspired the Bible then shut His mouth". Besides, what we are discussing here has nothing to do with a person's salvation (like most subjects people bicker about on Christian forums).
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
There is only one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one interpretation.
Application is individual.
It is not Biblical to follow a voice to receive a
"Different" interpretation.
And to play the Master, hazardously steering others into the rocks, shows your true character.
It is not good to make shipwreck others faith with a false compass.
Proverbs 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
Admin
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posted
I'd like to hear some of those. But first, I'd like to be sure I have a clear understanding of your belief about prophecy.
1. The Millennial Kingdom
2. The Rapture
3. The Great Tribulation
4. Armageddon
5. Antichrist, false prophet, Satan cast into the lake of fire, and their army all destroyed
6. The New Heaven and New Earth
Do I have it right?
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
No. He's talked to me about a number of verses He says have been misunderstood and caused confusion in the Body.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Is prophecy the only scripture He has talked to you about?
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Chaplain Bob
Advanced Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
In dreams or visions?
For the last two decades He has chosen to allow me to hear His voice. I know, I know, "The guy is out of his mind" or "How does he know it's God's voice" or "The Devil must be deceiving him". Well, while God has helped me understand the Bible better, He has given me a different interpretation of some Scripture than you may believe. And I thank Him for helping me make sense out of it.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Where did you learn these things, if you don't mind me asking?
From God.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Where did you learn these things, if you don't mind me asking?
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
Kindgo as I said I was once a member of the Rapture cult but God delivered me so I don't need to memorize the verses as you use them. Carol I mean those in the Rapture cult have placed the catching away of the Believers in the wrong place and have invented the "double dip" theory to justify their theory and don't even know (or choose to ignore) who actually is going to be "raptured" when Jesus returns.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
The chronology concerning the "Rapture theory" was inserted by man and is not in Scripture. No matter. It has no affect on one's salvation but those in the Rapture cult are in for a big surprise. When the Lord returns and you find you are still here, don't panic. He's just coming back to set up His Millennial Kingdom.
The chronology concerning the "Rapture theory" was inserted by man and is not in Scripture.
What do you mean when you say this?
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Kindgo
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posted
Bob you can disagree, but, please don't accuse us of not knowing about the other views, and, don't just blindly accept what opponents falsely say when they lie, proclaiming that we just believe in something a 19th-century Englishman said, or that we follow some woman who dabbled in the occult.
That isn't true, and you should look more deeply into the evidence upon which we base these understandings, than just to take the word of those who make such shallow and deceptive accusations.
Put this Scripture in a place you can memorize it –and make it your model truth for avoiding the pitfalls of intellectual and scriptural laziness:
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
The chronology concerning the "Rapture theory" was inserted by man and is not in Scripture. No matter. It has no affect on one's salvation but those in the Rapture cult are in for a big surprise. When the Lord returns and you find you are still here, don't panic. He's just coming back to set up His Millennial Kingdom.
Your the one that has the tone of panic, lol.
Maybe it would be against your best interest to all of a sudden be changed in the twinkle of an eye?
I say if you don't have the fire fight in your life here and now, perhaps wish-en for a great tribulation to show forth your greatness would be a good way to convince others of your salvation.
No?
![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
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That is all.....
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
The chronology concerning the "Rapture theory" was inserted by man and is not in Scripture. No matter. It has no affect on one's salvation but those in the Rapture cult are in for a big surprise. When the Lord returns and you find you are still here, don't panic. He's just coming back to set up His Millennial Kingdom.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
What do you call these verses?
AFTER the Millennial Kingdom Carol.
This is why you have no credibility Bob, as you have so wrested scriptures and established a chronology of error.
Christ returns, defeats the forces of the anti-christ, and the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for a thousand years. The saints live and reign with Christ for a thousand years, the Millennial Reign of Christ, the Milennial Kingdom, THEN Satan is loosed and goes forth to deceive the nations, all are defeated and Satan is then cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are.
This is the straight forward context of scripture Bob, and if your pet eschatology disagrees with it, it just shows you to sadly be in error.
Revelation 19-20.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
What do you call these verses?
AFTER the Millennial Kingdom Carol.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
Drew, I've heard it all before. The Scriptures you quote are used constantly by those who teach the Rapture Theory (which first came to light in the mid 1800s) to "prove" it's true. The truth is those same Scripture can be used to "prove" almost any kind of "catching away" and really have nothing to do with a "rapture". The saints will be removed from this earth after the Millennial Kingdom just before God destroys this earth and creates a new one. The Disciples did not believe in a "rapture". Their question to the Lord was "When will you return?" It's possible the Believers will go through the Tribulation (which just might be occurring right now) but they will not go through the Great Tribulation which occurres after the Millennial Kingdom.
And the word GRACE was Hidden from the People for how long?
You my friend are in a NEW AGE type of Catholic dark age as it really matters to Gods word.
Im sorry if you were offended.
Let us not offend the Simplicity that is
IN CHRIST!
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
How sad Carol that you have to sink to insults as an argument.
The 3rd base Umpire has spoken!
OUT AT 1st!
as Jimmy Jones slides into His base, spikes in the air!
Wow!
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
Admin
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
[qb] So Carol, you've quoted Scripture I am very familiar with and have encouraged people to read many times. None of it proves the "Battle of Armageddon" occurs before the Millennial Kingdom. And, of course, the false profit exists before the Kingdom because Satan exists but is not revealed until after the Kingdom when Satan is "loosed".
How could anyone NOT see these verses as the Battle of Armageddon?
Revelation 19:17 - 21 (NASB)
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
What do you call these verses?
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
How sad Carol that you have to sink to insults as an argument.
What insults? You said quote:
Just asking what Lord he follows that allows him to mock those he disagrees with. It sure is not the Lord of the Bible.
then I quoted scripture showing that the Lord of the Bible does indeed mock people.
But, your statement "How sad Carol that you have to sink..." really is intended to insult.
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Caretaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
quote:
Originally posted by Betty Louise:
Sorry Bob, You are way off.
First the rapture, them the tribulation, then the Second Coming, then the Millennial Kingdom.
betty
Hey Betty, how about some Scripture to show me where I'm wrong?
Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 that the Church is waiting for the Lord from Heaven,
not for the Great Tribulation, because He has delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that God has not appointed us (Christians) to wrath, but to
obtain salvation through Christ. Those who have been "born again" (John 3:3) will soon
be "caught up" to Heaven without dying. Notice what the word of God says:
2Thess. (2:1-3:5)
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is
God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until
he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit
of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and
lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they
received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a
lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the
Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
whether by word, or our epistle.
2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us,
and hath given us everlasting
consolation and good hope through grace,
2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and
be glorified, even as it is with you:
3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have
not faith.
3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the
things which we command you.
3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for
Christ.
In verse 2:7 we see the term "he who now letteth", this is a direct reference to the
restraining influence of the Holy Spirit, who indwells all believers.
"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a
moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and
the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Cor. 15:51-52)
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we
which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one
another with these words." (1 Ths. 4:16-18)
It is a "comfort" for Christians to have this blessed promise. It would NOT be a comfort if
Christians had to endure the Great Tribulation. Our merciful Lord will call the Church out
of this world BEFORE the Tribulation starts. After all, the Church was never really a part
of this evil world system anyhow (Jas. 4:4; Rom. 12:2; Col. 3:2)! We're just passing
through this world to a much better place (Gal. 4:26), and we will be leaving very soon!
What about you?
This great departure of the saints is pictured on various occasions in the Bible. Just as
God took Enoch out of the world before the flood (Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5), He will take His
Church out of the world before the Tribulation. Just as God delivered Lot and his family
from the violent judgment upon Sodom (Gen. 19:22-24), He will deliver His saints from
the coming judgment of the Great Tribulation. Like any responsible Father, God will take
proper care of His children. He will destroy the Devil's children (Jhn. 8:44; 1 Jhn. 3:10),
but His own children are safe and secure. As Psalm 145:20 assures us, "The LORD
preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."
This calling-out of the Church is commonly referred to as the "Rapture" because of the
quick and surprising nature in which it occurs. The world will stand in shock when millions
of Christians suddenly vanish from the face of the earth! The freeways, the
subways, the airports and streets will be in a total shambles as thousands and thousands
of drivers suddenly vanish from their seats! No doubt, millions of people will be killed
immediately.
Those remaining alive will be in shock as they search for their loved ones among all the
demolished cars and buildings. Communications will also be greatly disrupted, because
many key communications people will be caught up in the Rapture.
Opportunists will add to the confusion by looting and killing. They'll feel that during such
an emergency they can get away with anything. There will be worldwide chaos!
Authorities may attempt to explain the millions of missing people, but make no mistake
about it: GOD TOOK THEM! He promised that He would call out His people, so He will call
them out. That's all there is to it.
Many people laugh and make jokes about this Bible doctrine, but there's coming a day
when the laughing will end. Noah was a preacher of righteousness who probably received
a great deal of mocking and ridicule from the world as he built the ark upon dry ground,
but the mocking stopped when the flood waters began to rise. God was true to His word
then, and God will be true to His word today. Jesus is coming soon, and you will either be
caught up to meet Him, or you will be left behind to enter the Great Tribulation. The
choice is yours.
The Judgment Seat of Christ
Once Christians have been caught up to Heaven, we will appear before the Judgment
Seat of Christ to be judged by the Lord for our Christian service. Paul wrote about this
judgment to the Romans and to the Corinthians:
"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for
we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom. 14:10)
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any
man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every
man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be
revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any
man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's
work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by
fire." (1 Cor. 3:11-15)
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive
the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
(2 Cor. 5:10)
As these verses reveal, a Christian isn't judged to determine his eternal destiny. A
Christian's eternal destiny is established the moment he receives Jesus Christ as Savior.
The Judgment Seat of Christ is for judging the Christian's SERVICE while on this
earth. Rewards will be given to some, while others will lose rewards (2 Jhn. 8), but no
one goes to Hell at this judgment.
After the Judgment Seat of Christ, we (Christians) will wait with the Lord in Heaven until
the Great Tribulation is over on earth. We will then take part in the Marriage of the Lamb
and in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-9). This is when the Lord Jesus Christ
and His Bride, the Church, are officially united.
Rev. 19:8
"To her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the
fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev. 19:14
"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine
linen, white and clean."
Notice the fine linen white and clean is the righteousness of saints, which are in heaven.
We will then return with the Lord to the earth, and He will destroy the wicked and
establish the Millennial Kingdom, and His saints will reign with Him on earth for one
thousand years (Rev. 20:1-7).
Zecheriah 12:10
"..and they look upon me whom they have pierced.."
Zecheriah 14:4
"And his feet shall stand that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on
the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and
toward the west.."
Zechariah 14:8,9
"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them
toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in the summer and in
winter shall it be.
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lord, and his
name one."
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
How sad Carol that you have to sink to insults as an argument.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
I'm not trying to accomplish anything just sharing what God has revealed to me. I'm just one of a growing number who have pulled out of the rapture cult. The chronology you mention was inserted by men to attempt to make sense out of their theory (which is now only about 160 years old).
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Caretaker
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posted
Bob you are accomplishing nothing in this thread and in your criticism of the pre-trib rapture. You will certainly not convince anyone as your own theory is chronologically contrary to the clear reading of scripture, which undermines any credibility for you to criticize.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Psalms 37:12-13 (NASB)
12The wicked plots against the righteous
And gnashes at him with his teeth.
13The Lord laughs at him,
For He sees his day is coming.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Psalms 2:4 - 6 (NASB)
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them.
5 Then He will speak to them in His anger And terrify them in His fury, saying,
6 “But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”
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Carol Swenson
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posted
 Lessons from a talking donkey – Numbers 22-30
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
So WildB, mockery is a tool of YOUR Lord? What do you accomplish with that?
"YOUR Lord"? As in, "my Lord is better than your Lord"?
Who's mocking now?
Just asking what Lord he follows that allows him to mock those he disagrees with. It sure is not the Lord of the Bible.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
So WildB, mockery is a tool of YOUR Lord? What do you accomplish with that?
"YOUR Lord"? As in, "my Lord is better than your Lord"?
Who's mocking now?
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:
So Carol, you've quoted Scripture I am very familiar with and have encouraged people to read many times. None of it proves the "Battle of Armageddon" occurs before the Millennial Kingdom. And, of course, the false profit exists before the Kingdom because Satan exists but is not revealed until after the Kingdom when Satan is "loosed".
How could anyone NOT see these verses as the Battle of Armageddon?
Revelation 19:17 - 21 (NASB)
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
What do you call these verses?
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
So WildB, mockery is a tool of YOUR Lord? What do you accomplish with that?
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Chaplain Bob
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posted
Drew, I've heard it all before. The Scriptures you quote are used constantly by those who teach the Rapture Theory (which first came to light in the mid 1800s) to "prove" it's true. The truth is those same Scripture can be used to "prove" almost any kind of "catching away" and really have nothing to do with a "rapture". The saints will be removed from this earth after the Millennial Kingdom just before God destroys this earth and creates a new one. The Disciples did not believe in a "rapture". Their question to the Lord was "When will you return?" It's possible the Believers will go through the Tribulation (which just might be occurring right now) but they will not go through the Great Tribulation which occurres after the Millennial Kingdom.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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Bloodbought
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posted
There is a theory that says, get me out of here before the beast comes and I loose my sanity.
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Chaplain Bob
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So Carol, you've quoted Scripture I am very familiar with and have encouraged people to read many times. None of it proves the "Battle of Armageddon" occurs before the Millennial Kingdom. And, of course, the false profit exists before the Kingdom because Satan exists but is not revealed until after the Kingdom when Satan is "loosed".
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
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WildB
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posted
Ecclesiastes 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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That is all.....
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