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Topic: The Sacred Name Cult
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Ummmm...WildB I'm pretty sure that barry posted an article where the author said he received those bad emails, not barrykind himself.
Now why would he do that?
I mean post something like that?
It was an article written by David Cloud that barrykind posted on The Sin of Legalism thread on October 01, 2010 06:07. It is a defense against being labeled a legalist.
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007381;p=1#000015
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barrykind
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posted
Sister Carol states:
quote:
Ummmm...WildB I'm pretty sure that barry posted an article where the author said he received those bad emails, not barrykind himself
right sister Carol again thanks
barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Ummmm...WildB I'm pretty sure that barry posted an article where the author said he received those bad emails, not barrykind himself.
Now why would he do that?
I mean post something like that?
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That is all.....
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Ummmm...WildB I'm pretty sure that barry posted an article where the author said he received those bad emails, not barrykind himself.
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barrykind
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posted
Yes Sister Carol You do make since..i appreciate your comments..Thank You
barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
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posted
Sister Carol stated above:
quote:
That is the first sentence in my article.
barrykind, I have never accused you of being a cult member. This article is to warn people away from cults, not to point fingers at anyone.
You and becauseHElives have made it clear that you know our Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua, Yehushua), is the power, not His name or the Father's name. The Person is the power, not the name.
Am I making any sense?
Oh sister Carol sorry, i know you were not calling anyone here as being in a cult by your quote above:
quote:
You're welcome Betty
I don't think that anyone here is in a cult, but it's good to be aware of them.
The Sacred Name Movement (SNM) is a movement in Christianity that seeks to conform Christianity to its Hebrew Roots in practice, belief and worship. The best known distinction of the SNM is its belief in the use of a proper name for the God of Israel (YHVH/Yahweh) based upon the Tetragrammaton and the use of the Hebrew name of Jesus (Yahshua). SNM believers also generally keep many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Torah festivals and keeping kosher food laws. However, not every 'Sacred Name' Group adheres to Old Testament festivals, dietary laws and other mitzvot.
The Sacred Name Movement arose in the early 20th century out of the Adventist movement. C. O. Dodd, a member of the Church of God, began keeping the Jewish festivals (including Passover) in 1928 and adopted sacred name doctrines in the late 1930s. Dodd also came into contact with Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, who accepted many of Dodd's teachings.
some others here had stated such, i should have mentioned by name...i knew you did not!
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Sacred Namers are a group largely professing to be Torah Observant Gentiles, who believe that the only source of power and righteousness in creation is the use (and frequent use at that) of the Holy Name which the Creator gave to Moses on Mount Sinai.
That is the first sentence in my article.
barrykind, I have never accused you of being a cult member. This article is to warn people away from cults, not to point fingers at anyone.
You and becauseHElives have made it clear that you know our Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua, Yehushua), is the power, not His name or the Father's name. The Person is the power, not the name.
Am I making any sense?
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barrykind
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posted
As truly witnessed by myself and others; there is "Sacred Name Cults" out there, and im assuming that when you are using the name "cult" you mean false teachers and false doctrine.
"Cult" can also mean "non mainstream" so definitions of words are crucial for debat and discussion.
Everyone that uses the name YHWH, YHVH, Yahweh, Yeshua, Yahshua; should not be "grouped" together in a false "cult".
Many times we do not understand or things that we have never been taught seem so far fetched.
i try not to group all Pentecostals into one "group"; there all different.
i have met Roman Catholics that truly seem to have the LOVE of God in thier hearts....are the saved..? fruit bears witness; will YHWH Almighty leave them in that false religion (cult)?
No, He will lead them, and or us out of anything that is not of HIM, if we can be led of the Spirit..that is HIS HOly Spirit!
im trying to be a bit more careful in quoting articles on the board, i know i have used MANY...To try to get my point across, but if i dont agree with some of the article it is hard because most authors want their work copied in its entireity..ill try to be a bit more careful so as not to "muddy" the water by accident.
I know of some "SNC" that state not only you must Say the names Yahweh and Yashushua, you must have hands laid on you by one of thier ministers or your not saved.
Ive seen the abuse and misuse of the "Sacred Names"
i pray i dont fall into that trap.
When one sees a truth about something if HE loves the Master he wants to zelously show that, i dont think that i think im better than anyone, nor do i think my heart is in pride about the matter as some state.
Just because of abuse, dont disregaurd the truth of the Sacred Names because of the misuse and sometimes LIES of others.
love
barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Betty Louise
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posted
Read Leviticus and see if you are actually keeping the law and when you see you are not call on Jesus Christ to save you and be saved by grace and not law.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sha'ul:
You all bash the true name of God(YHWH) and Jesus(Yeshua) but have no clue what you're talking about. Now if someone tells you, you have to call by that name only than that I don't agree with. But you're no different, because you act as though if some one isn't a "christian" they're lost. You are all pompous and arrogant. I'm NOT a christian, I'm a follower of the way, and a bondservant of Messiah. That is what scripture calls me. You can have your hypocrisy, because you want a free ride on the blood of Jesus. You want the salvation as long as you don't have to change nothing, God forbid you should be obedient to His commands( which has nothing to do with being under the law) But you all are under law anyways, the burdensome law of your denominations. I.E. have to be a member, have to be baptized by them, have to dress a certain way, have to believe the way they do, can't do ministry unless they approve, the list goes on and on. So stop keeping the law. At least God's commandments are perfect as Paul says, and 1John says they are not burdensome.
Well I was wondering when this rant was going to rear its ugly self.
And your right you don't have to be a Christian to be saved but you better not fail in your keeping of the law..
You wouldn't happen to be a convert of these Latter day Namerites?
Scripture calls the rest of us sinner's saved by Grace plus nothing,
And Also that.....
ALL HAVE SINNED unless God(YHWH)is a liar?
Please stop your sillyness.
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Sha'ul
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posted
You all bash the true name of God(YHWH) and Jesus(Yeshua) but have no clue what you're talking about. Now if someone tells you, you have to call by that name only than that I don't agree with. But you're no different, because you act as though if some one isn't a "christian" they're lost. You are all pompous and arrogant. I'm NOT a christian, I'm a follower of the way, and a bondservant of Messiah. That is what scripture calls me. You can have your hypocrisy, because you want a free ride on the blood of Jesus. You want the salvation as long as you don't have to change nothing, God forbid you should be obedient to His commands( which has nothing to do with being under the law) But you all are under law anyways, the burdensome law of your denominations. I.E. have to be a member, have to be baptized by them, have to dress a certain way, have to believe the way they do, can't do ministry unless they approve, the list goes on and on. So stop keeping the law. At least God's commandments are perfect as Paul says, and 1John says they are not burdensome.
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WildB
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posted
I in good conscience will not tend The Church of the Latter Day Namerites.
It is just another cult that serves no other purpose than to destroy the simplicity that is in Christ.
One on this board actually thinks God has commissioned him to rewrite the time tested Linguistic semantical text of the Word of God..
And actively does so.
Example.. this person inserts "Yahweh thy Elohim" in place of "The Lord thy God"... and on and on until all the words that offend him are purged.
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That is all.....
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Job511
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posted
Thank you, Carol, for bringing this to our attention. So many religious groups claim to be sects of Christianity, but then they express beliefs which are either heretical or just flat-out wrong. These "Sacred Name" people seem to fit into the latter of those categories. They may be guilty of heresy, as well.
When I wish to refer to the Father part of the Trinity specifically, I use Jehovah. Here is a link to a page on the origin of that term. The name given to Moses in Exodus 3 is considered too holy for utterance, and that is nearly verbatim in quoting the link that I posted.
Edit: I feel that a quote from Maureen O'Hara in "McLintock" is appropriate here: "It's sad, these changing times."
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The lowly He sets on high, and those who mourn are lifted to safety.
--Job 5:11, NIV
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Betty Louise
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posted
What gets me is when someone is rude, misquotes us, makes wild false accusations about our beliefs, says we blindly follow the RCC, and THEN the same people turn around and say we are unkind when we disagree with them, or even when we disagree with someone else! LOL
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You noticed that too. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
Being angry is not the same as not loving. We get angry at our kids when they do wrong, but we still love them. But you're right about love.
What gets me is when someone is rude, misquotes us, makes wild false accusations about our beliefs, says we blindly follow the RCC, and THEN the same people turn around and say we are unkind when we disagree with them, or even when we disagree with someone else! LOL
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Betty Louise
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posted
You are right, Carol, we should react in love. I know I got frustrated when the same people accuse me of being wrong for worshiping on Sunday, not obeying the law and believing in the pre-trib. It is like people want to let us know how wrong they THINK we are and then we are suppose to be loving. but when we defend our believes we are too ignorant to understand. Sometimes, my human nature rises up and finds it hard to be loving in those circumstances. I have got to depend on God more to help me be loving in ALL circumstances.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
You're so right Betty. His majesty and glory, and the wonderful joy of His Spirit and His salvation - His sacrifice for us - these go far, far beyond petty rules and regs. Why do people want to put Him in a little box with their "Table Of Contents" all neatly listed? He is the Creator of the universe. He is the Savior of the world. He is the everlasting King of Kings. He is AWESOME!!! Maybe they just don't understand verses like:
Galatians 5:4 - 6 (NLT)
For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace. But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us. For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love.
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Betty Louise
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posted
With some suggesting we need to keep the law and worship on Saturday, they are getting close. If worshiping on Saturday and keeping the law saves, then Jesus died in vain, but of course we know that is not true.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
You're welcome Betty ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
I don't think that anyone here is in a cult, but it's good to be aware of them.
The Sacred Name Movement (SNM) is a movement in Christianity that seeks to conform Christianity to its Hebrew Roots in practice, belief and worship. The best known distinction of the SNM is its belief in the use of a proper name for the God of Israel (YHVH/Yahweh) based upon the Tetragrammaton and the use of the Hebrew name of Jesus (Yahshua). SNM believers also generally keep many of the Old Testament laws and ceremonies such as the Torah festivals and keeping kosher food laws. However, not every 'Sacred Name' Group adheres to Old Testament festivals, dietary laws and other mitzvot.
The Sacred Name Movement arose in the early 20th century out of the Adventist movement. C. O. Dodd, a member of the Church of God, began keeping the Jewish festivals (including Passover) in 1928 and adopted sacred name doctrines in the late 1930s. Dodd also came into contact with Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God, who accepted many of Dodd's teachings.
Complete article at:
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Sacred_Name_Movement
Some of the other articles I read about the Sacred Name Cult spoke of cult enslavement. I really hope people will be wise and beware. Not all that glitters is gold!
"But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good"
(1 Thessalonians 5:21, NASB)
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Betty Louise
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posted
thank you, Carol.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Carol Swenson
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posted
The AntiMessiah Deception of the Sacred Name Cult
Sacred Namers are a group largely professing to be Torah Observant Gentiles, who believe that the only source of power and righteousness in creation is the use (and frequent use at that) of the Holy Name which the Creator gave to Moses on Mount Sinai. This group routinely pronounces anyone who does not use their terminology and their "correct" pronunciation of the name of G-d as Pagan. There is a deeply troubling quasi-psychotic hatred which can be easily found in these groups. Any word of term which is English or Greek is considered to be Pagan in origin. Even common words such as "Sacred", "Holy", or "G-d" will instantly brand you as a pagan idolater who has no hope of redemption.
The history of the Sacred Name Cults shows them to be derived of the Millerite sects, the Adventists and the Church of God, and thus from the false prophet William Miller who prophesied the return of Jesus in 1843 and made a subsequent false prophecy concerning 1845. Though his group self destructed by the mid 19th century the followers became the Adventists and later Church of God sects, preserving the strict legalism and false prophetic bents of the original group.
These groups are founded on hatred and bitterness and a private interpretation of the scriptures which does not bear up to close scrutiny by the Word of G-d. Though claiming to be Torah Observant Messianics they like the Pharisees use their personal interpretation of Torah as a weapon to condemn all others and so miss the heart of Torah completely choosing to judge and condemn instead of loving their neighbor as themselves.
Common Errors of the Sacred Name Movement
>>> Jesus comes from Zeus
Using the fact that the English name of the Messiah, Jesus, ends in a US they insist that this name is actually derived from the name of the leader of the greek Pantheon. They have no etymology or historical references to support this supposition, only the similarity of the English name to a Greek name. The entimology of the name Jesus is well in history and linguistic studies. The hebrew name Y'shua, a variant of Yoshua, becane Iesous in the Greek of the Brit Chadashah (New Testament). This name in the Romance languages of Europe became Hesus or Iesus depending on where you were in Europe. In the Germanic tongues (from which English is derived) the I became hardened into a J and the proper English name for the Messiah became JESUS. There is no evidence whatsoever that the English translators of the bible were followers of the Greco-Roman Pantheon or that they would have used the Greek god Zeus to obtain the name of the Messiah.
>>> The Brit Chadashah (New Testament) was written in Aramaic not in Greek.
The testimony of the AnteNicean Fathers (written well before the foundations of the Roman Catholic Church) was that the majority of the New Testament was wrotten in Greek. Matthews Gospel as well as James and Hebrews may very probably have been written in Aramaic, but there is no reliable manuscript evidence that points to a preserved Aramaic text older than the forth century Peshitta (the Syriac version of the Bible). Furthermore, many of the concepts expressed in the New Testament could not have been presented in a concide language of commerce such as Hebrew or Aramaic and needed a philosophical language such as Greek to express the entirety of their thought. For instance: The passage at the end of John where the risen Messiah and Peter (Kefa) enter into a discussion where he is asked if he loves the Messiah.
John 21 15-17 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
The first two time Y'shua asked Kefa if he Agapao him and Kefa replied that he Phileo him. The last time the Messiah asked if Kefa could Phileo him and he wept. Agapao implies unconditional love whereas Phileo is a love that is conditional. In the Semitic tongues there is only one word for LOVE,,, Ahav. Not only would the meaning be lost to us, but if Kefa and Y'shua were speaking Hebrew or Aramaic the meaning would have been lost to Kefa and there would have been no reason for Kefa to be grieved.
The simple fact is that Koine Greek was the Lingua Franca of the Hellenized world much as English is today. People routinely spoke to one another in Koine (which means Common) Greek. To reach the world with the message of the Gospel it would have been necessary to use the common language of the world WHICH WAS GREEK.
>>> Any Term not in Hebrew is Pagan in Origin
This includes words like God, Holy, Sacred... anything in any language which is not Hebrew in origin.
Bereshit (Genesis) 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
The author of the languages of man was the Most High G-d, who confused the languages at Babel. The assumption that languages in themselves are pagan in origin implies that G-d is the author of the pagan religions of man.
>>> The Real Heart of the Matter
Sacred Namers want to stick the name Yahveh into every thing they write and everything they read. They have published their own versions of the bible with the sacred name pronounced into every name. Without a thorough understanding of Hebraic culture or idiom, these gentiles want to change the name of the Messiah from Y'shua (The Salvation of G-d) to Yahshua (phonetically the same as Yoshua - G-d is Salvation) simply to get the sacred name of YAH into the name of the Messiah. Y'shua is a Hebraic name, Yoshua is a different Hebraic name, but YAHshua is an invention of Gentiles looking for a magic formula and not the name of the Redeemer.
This is worse than another gospel... this is the gospel of incantation. A form of salvation by reciting the appropriate magic formula. In other words, WITCHCRAFT. And to compound the error and make it into SIN which leads to DEATH... they pass judgment on all who will not repeat their magic name.
When Y'shua/Jesus came to judge between the sheep and the goats, not one sheep was found worthy from knowing the magic name of G-d. Not one goat was condemned for calling the Messiah Zeus. The sheep were welcomed into the sheep pin because they loved, which is righteous judgement, the goats rejected for not judging righteously and in love.
How to Respond to the Sacred Namer
Turn their own doctrine back at them
1. "There is no other name given under heaven amongst men by which we must be saved"
2. Jesus is the name of the Messiah in English, this we know for certain. Y'shua is a Hebrew equivalent as is Yoshua... but YAHShua? Never heard of him... it is neither English nor Greek nor even Hebrew, it is an invention of Americans who came out of a sect of the Christian Church... a sect that rejects the very religion it came from as being pagan.
3. Paul preached the unknown G-d and never once during that sermon mentioned the name of G-d, how was anyone saved?
4. You do not know the name of the redeemer so by your own doctrine you are condemned
5. You do not know the person of the redeemer because you practice unrighteous judgment based on your own false understanding of the name of G-d therefore according to the Living Torah as given by Y'shua himself, you are a stone white sepulcher full of dead men's bones. Repent of your sins and come to Messiah... learn of the person through his Word (Davar) and his Ruach (Spirit) and you shall receive the FREE GIFT of Salvation.
Do not bow to their insults, do not be led astray by their foolishness. Proclaim the Word and then if rejected shake the dust off your feet.
Other Resources for Understanding and Defending against the Sacred Name Cult
House of Yahweh Profile
Doomsday, Destructive Cults
http://www.heartofisrael.net/mdl/SacredName.htm
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