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Topic: Bible Miracles And Modern Day Impostors
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
This was my first forum. When I started here I had to learn everything from scratch ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Robert E. Barger
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Thank you Carol. I did no look for it very well did I?
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
Robert
Just a note. If you want to change or add to something you've posted, click on the icon that looks like a piece of paper and a pencil. It's one of the icons that is at the top of every post.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Robert E. Barger
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Member # 7998
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posted
#2) shall be judged by the law.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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Robert E. Barger
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Member # 7998
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posted
Romans|2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans|2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
Romans|2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Romans|2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Romans|2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the
righteous judgment of God;
Romans|2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans|2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans|2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Romans|2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Romans|2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Romans|2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Romans|2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Romans|2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans|2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, """"""do by nature the things contained in the law"""", these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans|2:15 """Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean
while accusing or else excusing one another;)""""
Romans|2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (TODAY!)
In this passage of scripture we see that God is explaining about the judgment of God. He lists three groups,
1) Them withhout law
2) Them under the law
3) Them that have not the Law but do the things contained in the Law.
#1) Them without law shall perish without law.
#2) Them under the law, shall be justed by the law. These are people who do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
#3) Are them that accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and keep His Commandments. These either accuse or excuse one another.
We who have the law of God wrote upon our heart are "Israel"! Israel- he shall rule as God. We have the power to either accuse or excuse one another. When we "see by the Spirit" a person who does not know the truth, we are to pray "for" that person asking God to forgive them for they know not what they do.. When we see a person who is to be accused, we are to pray also for that person, but in a differant way because they are to accused.
Acts|13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a
man declare it unto you.
Isaiah|29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers,
the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah|29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned,
saying, Read this, I pray thee: """and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:"""""
Isaiah|29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah|29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, """"""but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by
the precept of men:""""""
Isaiah|29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Habakkuk|1:5 Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you.
AS we study the word if God, we must beward not to allow Satan to steal what God has for us. The key to recieving anything for God is to be willing to obey ""everything He asks us to do!"". There is a devil, just as there is a God, and he has come to steal, kill, and destroy. Satan's laws are the word of God just as it is also our "law". The only differance is, he knows the truth, and in alot of cases, we don't.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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Robert E. Barger
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Member # 7998
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posted
Also one of the reasons that we do not see the supernatural things of God today is because most people do not know what's in Old Testament. All the apostles "knew" the Old Testament and all the promises that were to come through Christ. People accept Jesus today and they are taught that they don't need the Old Testament today. All the way through the Old Testament God warns us about forgetting what was done in Old Testament.
Another reason that we don't see the power of God is we as the body of Christ, are not in unity in what the Bible says. There are so many translations out there that if it wasn't for the Holy Ghost revealing truth to us, we would never come together in any thing.
The gifts of the Spirit are given to any one "WHO BELIEVEs", if you do not "force yourself to believe" God will let you believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians|2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians|2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians|2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you "to salvation through" sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. If you do not believe "all the gospel" you do not have salvation.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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John Hale
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I saw one of those "Extra" tv shows covering a female clerk who on the surveillance camera held a gun toting robber at bay in a convenience store where she worked.
You could not hear her but you could see her repeatedly pointing her finger at him authoritatively to leave...
In the interview of her interspersed in the tv segment she said on secular television (which typically scoffs at these things or tries to obscure them) "I told him over and over to leave in the name of Jesus."
He did.
We have miracles happening all around us. They may not call it a miracle, but even the skeptics can't deny or hide or downplay it all the time.
Don't fall for the hucksters (because there are many) but don't be overly cynical either. God orchestrates people with the ability to choose life altering decisions that effect others to protect us, to provide for us, to heal us, to prevent accidents, to avail us of opportunities...
He wakens sleeping hearts and revives them... just because man has gotten extremely uppity and takes most of the credit does not mean God is not responsible and / or active in ways we have yet to begin to consider.
And after all, what is the definition of a miracle? but the works of God (which sometimes transcends the laws of nature / physics...
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Robert E. Barger
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God said, It's not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord. Faith is believing what God said. We need to be careful that we do not call God a liar. He has said that he would bring to nothing the wisdom of the wise. God has chose the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, and base and disspired, and the things that are not. One of the signs of the last days is having a form of godliness but" dening the "power". It tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:3 No man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the "Holy Ghost". We must prove to ourselves that in fact we do have the Holt Ghost. There are reasons why some people cannot recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost, they will not repent. Unforgiveness, bitterness, hate, malice.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
Thunderz7 and becauseHElives ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
You're right, of course. I'm sorry this article came across as seeming to say there are NO miracles anymore. Salvation is always a miracle, and many Christians can tell of God working in their lives. becauseHElives, I know your infant daughter was healed miraculously. Thunderz7, your story is truly impressive. But, I think the writer of this article is saying that we don't see miracle workers like the Apostles today.
The article says that throughout history there have been both the true and the false.
quote:
Do not many people today believe in modern-day miracles? Yes, but such belief does not mean that it is authorized of the Word of God. Throughout human history there has been the spurious as well as the genuine miracle, error as well as truth, and the false as well as the factual
Then it asks:
quote:
A crucial question is how are we to discern true and false miracles? By what rule of Scripture would a "faith healer" establish that his work is authorized by God? Or that his "healing" is any more genuine than that of an African witch doctor?
To me, that is a good question.
From becauseHElives' article on Smith Wigglesworth
quote:
He never put the healing and miracles before The Cross of Jesus Christ. It is all about The Miracle Maker not the miracles, he insisted. Focusing on miracles is sin. You worship Jesus Christ not the miracles.
He always preached from The Bible.
To me, that is a good answer.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Carol, I have to somewhat disagree with that article. While I agree with most of it a small portion is a little disturbing.
The super natural miracle nature of Yahweh is present in every generation.
Yahweh is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow, forever....
What Yahweh has done for one at anytime , He will do for me or you.
This is one of those topics we must be careful not to try and box Yahweh in on.
Luke 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.
that verse covers a lot of territory!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Thunderz7
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Member # 31
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posted
For a long time I wouldn't accept teaching on tongues, as what I saw and heard, created more questions and confusion,
than answers that lined up with what is written.
Then in 1989 I had an experience in a church in a town 25 miles form my home,
I receive from a minister a word of knowledge, in a group where no one knew anything about me.
(needless to say the word of Knowledge was spot on)
That night I set abut finding a group to worship with in my home town.
also visitiing the same group that night was a Korean woman I had worked with in a local factory,
someone I knew, trusted;
someone who had a reputation for being honest and truthful;
even brutally truthful at times.
There came a point in the service that the minister began to "minister".
He went to the Korean woman and began to speak in an Orential sounding language.
She later declared to us that he spoke to her in Korean and told he things no one in the USA would have known.
Did she lie?
It's possibe, but knowing her and her rep, I doubt she lied.
Can satan immitate the gifts of YHWH?
yes.
A few years later another Korean woman had been attending this group for a while;
one night the minister went to her and started speaking in an orential sounding language.
She declared to the group that she had learned Japanese at a young age and had worked as a translator in Korea on a job translating Japanese.
She said no one in the USA knew she spoke Japanese, that this minister only knew she was Korean, but he had spoken to her in Japanese.
Did she lie?
Possible.
I have heard several people who speak Spanish say this same minister has spoken to them in their native language.
Are they all lying?
Possible.
Would satan immitate the gifts of GOD to fool so many?
Yes
We have here a highschool educated man, grew up in the next town west of us, many have know him all his life, and know he has alaways live here.
Alabama farm boy, highschool education, doesn't speak the most fluent of Engllish;
but does speak (according to witnesses) fluent Korean, Japenese, and Spanish.
What kind of fruit have I seen from this ministry?
To me it appears to be good fruit.
Regardless, the gifts of the Spirit didn't pass away with the 12,
there are still apostles, prophets. evangelsit , pastors and teachers among us,
it is written.
Few if amy of our "TV biggies" will I give the time of day, and if I do, I usually end up disagreeing with their message;
but YHWH is still alive, still working, the same yesterday, today and forever.
Anyone who says the gifts have passed away,
that this is a dispensatio of no gifts,
are as much or more of a danger than the twisters and benders.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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Bible Miracles And Modern Day Impostors
Do we dare question the power of God today? Does He not now have the same eternal, unlimited power as always? Do we presume to limit the power of God in affirming that no miracles occur today? The answer to these questions is an emphatic "no"! Being omnipotent, God is able to do anything. What God is able to do and what He wills to do are completely different issues.
God once created man from the dust, and woman from man's rib. He once parted the Red Sea to permit the escape of Israel from Egypt, and rained manna from heaven upon them. He provided quail in the wilderness, and water from the rock to supply Israel's needs. He gave commandments inscribed on stone with His finger. He once caused His Son to be born of a virgin, and Jesus performed numerous miracles ranging from feeding the hungry to raising the dead. None of these miracles are being witnessed in our time. To say that they are not is not to entertain doubts or define limits of divine power. It is merely to raise the question of what His will is for our day.
The term "miracle" has been subjected to indiscriminate usage in our time. Almost anything unusual is incorrectly styled a "miracle". God is present and active throughout our universe through instrumentality of natural laws, but even natural laws are those of whom God is author. A miracle is an instance of God's direct action, as distinguished from His mediate or indirect action through natural laws. For instance, when Jesus fed the 5,000 with a lad's lunch of five loaves and two fishes, this was a miracle. If the lad had fed himself with the lunch he had prepared, this would have been a perfectly natural event. (Matthew 14:15-21). The difference is that the latter would have been in perfect conformity with natural law; the former required utilizing divine power.
But is there not voluminous evidence that God is working today in the performing of miracles, such as supernatural healing, tongues-speaking, and many such things? We do not believe so. The evidence is far from conclusive. We have no evidence that any miracles of Biblical character are present today.
Some of the futile attempts to reproduce miracles of Biblical caliber are shabby and sometimes tragic replicas. Last August, the parents of a California youth was charged with manslaughter for withholding insulin from their son. The son died, but the father steadfastly insisted the Lord would raise the son from the dead in three days. This delusion did not come to pass. The minister of a 40 member church in Tennessee was freed of a manslaughter charge last summer when two of his members died after drinking strychnine to "demonstrate their faith" in divine, supernatural powers.
These are two of many tragic illustrations that are available. It is significant that they appealed to Mark 16:17-18 as authority for their faith and action. This text speaks of believers casting out devils, speaking in tongues, handling serpents, drinking poison, and healing the sick. All of these miracles are authorized by the same text - the same text others very selectively choose as their basis for tongues-speaking or healing.
Do not many people today believe in modern-day miracles? Yes, but such belief does not mean that it is authorized of the Word of God. Throughout human history there has been the spurious as well as the genuine miracle, error as well as truth, and the false as well as the factual. There have been people whose faith sincerely was based upon delusion, as well as those whose faith was anchored in Biblical truth. The magicians of Pharaoh sought to duplicate the miracles of Moses, and error is always a counterfeit of truth.
There have been groups claiming supernatural power that have had no connection with Christianity. Attempted healings and miracles have always occupied a conspicuous place in pagan religions, and mighty world rulers have gone to Delphi, Greece to seek oracles from the pagan temple to advise on their battles.
The sensational revival of the occult in our time illustrates the susceptibility of many people to accept the mystical and inexplicable. These occult groups can perform fetes just astonishing as anything offered by the modern-day faith healing advocates of Christianity.
God's Word is ultimate truth, and nothing is true that does not agree with that source. (John 17:17). The Lord acknowledged that many would claim to prophesy, expel demons, and perform many wonderful works that He would not know, and whose works He would not therefore authorize. (Matthew 7:22-23). There would arise, Christ warned, "false Christ, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders. . ." (Matthew 24:24). Servants of Satan would be able to display "power, and signs and lying wonders" (II Thess. 2:9). The Apostle Paul explained that we should not be astonished that such false teachers would appear, "for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (II Cor. 11:14).
A crucial question is how are we to discern true and false miracles? By what rule of Scripture would a "faith healer" establish that his work is authorized by God? Or that his "healing" is any more genuine than that of an African witch doctor?
Some pertinent points regarding the healings of Christ will serve as practical tests for professed healings today. (1) Jesus did not publicize His healings to create a sensational reputation, nor as an excuse for raising money; rather He at times commanded those healed to "tell no man' (Matthew 8:1-4, 9:27-31). (2) He healed all sorts of infirmities, with special attention to hopeless situations, for divine power does not fail. (3) He performed no partial healings. People were "made whole" by Christ. (Matthew 15:29-31; Mark 7:31-37). (4) Jesus never failed to heal a person He attempted to Heal. He never had any embarrassing explanations to make for failures. (5) No question was ever raised of the genuineness of His healings - as to whether the patient had actually been ill, or was actually healed. (6) Jesus did not heal by faith alone but by divine power. In only one case out of 31 examples did Jesus require faith. (Matt.9:27-3) In some situations the patient had no faith at all. (Luke 7:11-17; John 5:2-13).
Since modern miracle workers cannot conform to these conditions under which Christ ministered, they do not represent the same power He utilized. Miracles such as were performed by Christ and the Apostles were never intended to continue throughout all generations. Their primary purpose was never simply to cure the physically sick, for if this had been the case, Jesus would have traveled far more widely into all the countries of the world instead of remaining in Palestine.
The real purpose of New Testament miracles was to show that Christ and his inspired Apostles were speaking by divine authority. (Mark 16:19-20; Hebrews 2:3,, A fact once proven is always proven. After the inspired teachings which make up our New Testament were confirmed by the miracles of the First Century, they stand proven forever. The Bible teaches that we must now simply study the written accounts of these miracles in order to be convinced of the truthfulness of the Bible. (John 20:30-31).
http://www.bible.ca/su-miracles-today.htm
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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