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Topic: Is The Old Testament For Today?
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byfaith
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posted
to the original question about the Old Testament being for today,
Romans 15:4 KJV
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Robert, Amen!..yes the Lord judges!!!
Ezekiel 23 (NLT)
32 “Yes, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: [to Jerusalem]
“You will drink from your sister’s cup of terror,
a cup that is large and deep.
It is filled to the brim
with scorn and derision.
33 Drunkenness and anguish will fill you,
for your cup is filled to the brim with distress and desolation,
the same cup your sister Samaria drank.
34 You will drain that cup of terror
to the very bottom.
Then you will smash it to pieces
and beat your breast in anguish.
I, the Sovereign Lord, have spoken!
Revelation 19 (NLT)
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named Faithful and True, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. 12 His eyes were like flames of fire, and on his head were many crowns. A name was written on him that no one understood except himself. 13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven, dressed in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. 15 From his mouth came a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will release the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, like juice flowing from a winepress. 16 On his robe at his thigh was written this title: King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
Praise to our Lord and our Savior!!! May we all be dressed in pure white linen and following Him on white horses!
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Eden
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Carol Swenson wrote quote:
Eden, the Bible says that:
Romans 5:14 (KJV) 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Okay, thanks. Good point.
love, Eden
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Robert E. Barger
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Ezekiel|23:22 Therefore, O Aholibah,(My taberncle in her) thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;
Ezekiel|23:23 The Babylonians, (Confusion) and all the Chaldeans,(Demons) Pekod, (Law-Curse) and
Shoa,(Love of money) and Koa,(To cut off ) and all the Assyrians (Rod of God's anger Isaiah 10:5) with them: all of them desirable
young men, captains and rulers, great lords and renowned, all of them riding upon horses.
Ezekiel|23:24 And they shall come against thee with chariots,wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, """"and they shall judge thee according to their judgments"""""".
Ezekiel|23:25 And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: """they shall take away thy nose and thine
ears;""""' and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured """by the fire""''.
Ezekiel|23:26 They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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Robert, I agree with this too, except I don't think that God has given Satan the right to bring judgment. Only God has the right to judge.
quote:
When men are not in the vine, they are in satans domain. Belivers are to be on the Kings highway, or the path of holiness, but anyone who is in satans domain are under the curse and God has given Satan the right to bring judgment, or the curse into our life. The way of the transgressor, is hard. There is the sword and fear where he rules. This fire is to make us call out to God for mercy.
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Carol Swenson
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John, I agree ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
quote:
James is often mistaken as the Christian legalist. When in fact he is making the case of faith on the fruit or evidence of it (or lack thereof). James 2 and Ephesians 2 are in perfect harmony...
Add in Romans 7 as further evidence that ours is not a salvation of sin-free works but we are saved in order that we can do good works (Ephesians 2:10) which are the works of Christ in us otherwise "our" righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of a holy God... Isaiah 64:6.
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Carol Swenson
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Eden, the Bible says that.
Romans 5:14 (KJV) 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
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Eden
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Hi, Carol Swenson, you wrote quote:
Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
I don't think that Adam was a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
Adam was LIKE Jesus Christ in that Adam was the FIRST Adam and Jesus was the LAST Adam, and both Adam and Jesus had an identical type of body, a type of body that only TWO MEN ON EARTH have had so far, namely Adam and Jesus.
But Adam was NOT a symbol or representation of Christ, who was yet to come. If Adam had NOT sinned and Adam had done what Adam was supposed to do, namely to "multiply and have dominion over the earth", then Christ would NOT HAVE COME. There would have been no need for Christ to come and save the failed Adamites.
The first Adam failed and his earth and all the works therein will be burned up:
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Jesus the second Adam will START A NEW ADAMIC RACE on a renewed earth and a renewed sky/atmosphere in the world-to-come, so both Adams are completely different and separate from each other.
To repeat what you said, Carol Swenson quote:
Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
Adam was NOT a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
Jesus the second Adam had a body just like the first Adam, but the first Adam was NOT a symbol or representation of Christ who was yet to come. Jesus never had to come if the first Adam had not failed.
love, Eden
Why is this Topic in the "Exposing False Teaching" section?
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John Hale
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I AM the vine, you are the branches...
The trunk or center vine is called "the servant" (in Hebrew). This is the seven gold lampstands oractually the seven branched lampstand...
It is also idiomatic of the Olive tree in Romans 11:16-26.
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Robert E. Barger
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John|15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye
can do nothing.
John|15:6 If a man abide """"not in me,""" he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and """"men gather them, and cast them into the fire,and they are burned."""
When men are not in the vine, they are in satans domain. Belivers are to be on the Kings highway, or the path of holiness, but anyone who is in satans domain are under the curse and God has given Satan the right to bring judgment, or the curse into our life. The way of the transgressor, is hard. There is the sword and fear where he rules. This fire is to make us call out to God for mercy.
Jeremiah|6:25 Go not forth into the field, nor walk by the way; for the sword of the enemy and fear is on every side.
Isaiah|35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way,(Jesus) and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but
it shall b for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
Isaiah|35:9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk
there:
Isaiah|35:10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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John Hale
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[q] I'll add to your Galatians 6:2...
James 2:18 - 20 (NLT)
18Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” 19You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?
To help a person in need is an expression of love, and faith works by love (Gal. 5:6). The Apostle John emphasized this aspect of good works. “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and truth” (1 John 3:17-18, niv). The priest and Levite in the Parable of the Good Samaritan each had religious training, but neither of them paused to assist the dying man at the side of the road (Luke 10:25-37). Each of them would defend his faith, yet neither demonstrated that faith in loving works.
The question in James 2:14 should read, “Can that kind of faith save him?” What kind? The kind of faith that is never seen in practical works. The answer is no! Any declaration of faith that does not result in a changed life and good works is a false declaration. [/q]
James is often mistaken as the Christian legalist. When in fact he is making the case of faith on the fruit or evidence of it (or lack thereof). James 2 and Ephesians 2 are in perfect harmony...
Add in Romans 7 as further evidence that ours is not a salvation of sin-free works but we are saved in order that we can do good works (Ephesians 2:10) which are the works of Christ in us otherwise "our" righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of a holy God... Isaiah 64:6.
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Carol Swenson
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quote:
If we accept Christ as our Saviour, and do not bring forth fruit, God kills us!
John|15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
Of itself, a branch is weak and useless. It is good for either bearing or burning, but not for building (read Ezek. 15). The branch cannot produce its own life; it must draw that life from the vine. It is our communion with Christ through the Spirit that makes possible the bearing of the fruit.
Many of the images of Christ and the believer given in Scripture emphasize this important concept of union and communion: the body and its members (1 Cor. 12), the bride and the Bridegroom (Eph. 5:25-33), the sheep and the Shepherd (John 10). A member of the body cut off from the body would die. The marriage creates the union, but it takes daily love and devotion to maintain the communion. The shepherd brings the sheep into the flock, but the sheep must follow the shepherd in order to have protection and provision.
The sooner we as believers discover that we are but branches, the better we will relate to the Lord; for we will know our own weakness and confess our need for His strength.
The key word is abide; it is used eleven times in John 15:1-11 (“continue” in John 15:9 and “remain” in John 15:11). What does it mean to “abide”? It means to keep in fellowship with Christ so that His life can work in and through us to produce fruit. This certainly involves the Word of God and the confession of sin so that nothing hinders our communion with Him (John 15:3). It also involves obeying Him because we love Him (John 15:9-10).
How can we tell when we are “abiding in Christ”? Is there a special feeling? No, but there are special evidences that appear and they are unmistakably clear. For one thing, when you are abiding in Christ, you produce fruit (John 15:2). Also, you experience the Father’s “pruning” so that you will bear more fruit (John 15:2). The believer who is abiding in Christ has his prayers answered (John 15:7) and experiences a deepening love for Christ and for other believers (John 15:9, 12-13). He also experiences joy (John 15:11).
This abiding relationship is natural to the branch and the vine, but it must be cultivated in the Christian life. It is not automatic. Abiding in Christ demands worship, meditation on God’s Word, prayer, sacrifice, and service—but what a joyful experience it is! Once you have begun to cultivate this deeper communion with Christ, you have no desire to return to the shallow life of the careless Christian.
The vinedresser is in charge of caring for the vines, and Jesus said that this is the work of His Father. It is He who “purges” or prunes the branches so they will produce more fruit. Note the progression here: no fruit (John 15:2), fruit, more fruit, much fruit (John 15:5, 8). Many Christians pray that God will make them more fruitful, but they do not enjoy the pruning process that follows!
(Wiersbe)
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Robert E. Barger
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Romans|8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, """"condemned sin in the flesh:""""" (Or, condemned sin in me!)
Romans|8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, """""who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.""""""""
John|3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds
were evil.
John|3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
John|3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
If we accept Christ as our Saviour, and do not bring forth fruit, God kills us!
John|15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
Luke|8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
1 Corinthians|11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's
body.
1 Corinthians|11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. (Die!)
1 Corinthians|11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1 Corinthians|11:32 But when we are judged, we are """"chastened of the Lord,""""" that we should not be condemned with the world.
1 Corinthians|11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, (Eat the Word!) tarry one for another.
1 Corinthians|11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home;(Study!) that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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We are born sinners because Adam and Eve sinned, (Eve was deceived by Satan, but Adam was not deceived). We are born spiritually dead. But when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and our Savior, we are born again. His Spirit regenerates us.
Romans 5:12 - 19 (NLT) 12When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
13Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break. 14Still, everyone died—from the time of Adam to the time of Moses—even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come.
15But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.
16And the result of God’s gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man’s sin. For Adam’s sin led to condemnation, but God’s free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins.
17For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.
18Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. 19Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous.
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Robert E. Barger
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Paul tells us:
1 Timothy|1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and
murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy|1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if
there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Timothy|1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
Or, the law was not made for the person that is going to keep the law. """But we were born sinners!""" Therefore we are all under the law of sin and death and under the curse of the law. The soul that sinnwth, shall surely die. We must understand why we are sinners and understand what satan has created in us, then tear- down the thing satan has created and rebuild a habitant of God through the Spirit.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Robert E. Barger
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What was hid in Old Testament, is revealed By the Holy Ghost revealing it to us Now. When the Old Testament said, Thou shall not commint adultery. The Holy Ghost speaks to out mind and says, Think about how you would feel if your wife left you for another man. There is nothing that that man could do to make right what he did to you. The Holy Ghost reveals truth that would not be there without Him.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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I'll add to your Galatians 6:2...
James 2:18 - 20 (NLT)
18Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.” 19You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?
To help a person in need is an expression of love, and faith works by love (Gal. 5:6). The Apostle John emphasized this aspect of good works. “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and truth” (1 John 3:17-18, niv). The priest and Levite in the Parable of the Good Samaritan each had religious training, but neither of them paused to assist the dying man at the side of the road (Luke 10:25-37). Each of them would defend his faith, yet neither demonstrated that faith in loving works.
The question in James 2:14 should read, “Can that kind of faith save him?” What kind? The kind of faith that is never seen in practical works. The answer is no! Any declaration of faith that does not result in a changed life and good works is a false declaration.
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John Hale
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Um... by believing in Messiah Yeshua Jesus... we fulfill the Law of Moses. It was intended to produce that outcome... either in life while it (belief) can qualify us for salvation... or in death when it (the Law of Moses) will judge and condemn all who did not believe until it was too late...
Every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father... all will believe... not all will be saved because of when they believe (before or after death) and the Law of Moses is the catalyst for both...
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Or, that same Law will condemn the unbelieving (in this life) to eternal condemnation. So, the Law (of Moses) still stands and is still in effect.
The Law of Moses' temporal rituals of atonement (the accredited righteousness before the cross) is kaput... finito... which is what Jesus cursed in the form of the fig tree that produced no preseason fruit (Mark 11:13-23)...
To sum up... we keep the Law of Moses by keeping the Law of Christ (believing in him) as his righteousness is imputed to our account and he not only kept the Law of Moses he in effect IS the Law of Moses.
1 Corinthians 9:19-21
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
Galatians 6:2
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
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Carol Swenson
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The Law Cannot Do What the Promise Can Do (Gal. 3:27-29)
With the coming of Jesus Christ, the nation of Israel moved out of childhood into adulthood. The long period of preparation was over. While there was a certain amount of glory to the Law, there was a greater glory in the gracious salvation of God as found in Christ. The Law could reveal sin and, to a certain extent, control behavior, but the Law could not do for the sinner what Jesus Christ can do.
To begin with, the Law could never justify the guilty sinner. “I will not justify the wicked,” said the Lord (Ex. 23:7); yet Paul states that God “justifies the ungodly” (Rom. 4:5). King Solomon, at the dedication of the temple, reminded God to condemn the wicked and justify the righteous (1 Kings 8:32); and this was a proper request in light of the holiness of God. The trouble is, nobody was righteous! It is only through faith in Jesus Christ that the sinner is justified—declared righteous—before God.
Furthermore, the Law could never give a person a oneness with God; it separated man from God. There was a fence around the tabernacle and a veil between the holy place and the holy of holies.
Faith in Jesus baptizes us “into Christ” (Gal. 3:27). This baptism of the Spirit identifies the believer with Christ and makes him part of His body (1 Cor. 12:12-14). Water baptism is an outward picture of this inner work of the Holy Spirit (see Acts 10:44-48).
The phrase put on Christ (Gal. 3:27) refers to a change of garments. The believer has laid aside the dirty garments of sin (Isa. 64:6) and, by faith, received the robes of righteousness in Christ (see Col. 3:8-15). But to the Galatians, this idea of “changing clothes” would have an additional meaning. When the Roman child came of age, he took off the childhood garments and put on the toga of the adult citizen. The believer in Christ is not just a “child of God”; he is also a “son of God” (see Gal. 3:26, where children ought to be translated “adult sons”). The believer has an adult status before God—so why go back into the childhood of the Law?
“All one in Christ Jesus”—what a tremendous claim! The Law created differences and distinctions, not only between individuals and nations, but also between various kinds of foods and animals. Jesus Christ came, not to divide, but to unite.
This must have been glorious news for the Galatian Christians, for in their society slaves were considered to be only pieces of property; women were kept confined and disrespected; and Gentiles were constantly sneered at by the Jews.
The Pharisee would pray each morning, “I thank Thee, God, that I am a Jew, not a Gentile; a man, not a woman; and a freeman, and not a slave.” Yet all these distinctions are removed “in Christ.”
This does not mean that our race, political status, or sex is changed at conversion; but it does mean that these things are of no value or handicap when it comes to our spiritual relationship to God through Christ. The Law perpetuated these distinctions, but God in His grace has declared all men to be on the same level that He might have mercy on all men (Rom. 11:25-32).
Finally, the Law could never make us heirs of God (Gal. 3:29). God made the promise to “Abraham’s Seed” (singular, Gal. 3:16), and that Seed is Christ. If we are “in Christ” by faith, then we too are “Abraham’s seed” spiritually speaking. This means we are heirs of the spiritual blessings God promised to Abraham. This does not mean that the material and national blessings promised to Israel are set aside, but that Christians today are enriched spiritually because of God’s promise to Abraham (see Rom. 11:13ff).
This section of Galatians is valuable to us as we read the Old Testament Scriptures. It shows us that the spiritual lessons of the Old Testament are not for the Jews only but have application to Christians today (see Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:11-12). In the Old Testament we have preparation for Christ; in the Gospels, the presentation of Christ; and in the Acts through Revelation, the appropriation of Christ.
Your Christian life ought to take on new wonder and meaning as you realize all that you have in Christ. And all of this is by grace—not by Law! You are an adult son in God’s family, an heir of God. Are you drawing on your inheritance?
(Wiersbe)
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John Hale
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"The Bible is an integrated message system. The Old Testament was written in such a way as to communicate truth anticipating hostile jamming / interference... cryptic hidden in the bandwidth of the book.
"The Old Testament contains the New Testament concealed. The New Testament contains the Old Testament revealed."
... Dr. Chuck Missler
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John Hale
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Dr. Chuck Missler does a sermon on holography that is a good example of how the Holy Spirit and the Bible (both testaments) give us transcendental understanding of truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaKS0Egq-1c
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John Hale
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2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Tell me, what scriptures existed at the time?
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Carol Swenson
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14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire."
Adam was never a cherub (angel). He was created as a human being.
2 Thess 2 and Revelation tell of the Antichrist who will come during the Tribulation. He will be possessed by Satan.
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Robert E. Barger
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I see this scripture in Ezekiel as Adam in good standing with God before his fall, and after in his fallen state his fallen state, not Satan himself.
In 2 Thessiloians 2 it also tells us that it is not Satan, but a creation called ""Wicked" created after the working of Satan. Also in Revelations we see the beast that was wounded unto death and then the beast rose again and the whole world wondered after the beast and worshiped the dragon that gave him POWER. (Satan)
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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The revelation that God "IS" LOVE is an awlsome understanding. What God "IS" dictates what He must do to maintain what He "IS". The very nature of God cannot manifest anything but the Fruits of the Spirit. He IS LOVE! Love is a consuming FIRE. When we consider everything God "IS", which is everything, We reflect on what Paul said about this, In Him we live and move and have our being.
God is love. But that does not mean universal salvation. Those who reject Christ will be condemned. For the Christian though, God is Love and God is Holy. How extremely fortunate we are that we don't have a god like Satan.
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God made Satan to test us,we was made subject to vanity not willingly, but God did it "hoping" that we would fulfill His purpose for our life.
Satan ("adversary") was created to be wise and beautiful. But he chose to sin; he rebelled and disobeyed God. He was cast down along with a third of the angels who followed him (fallen angels; demons). Now he wants to steal, kill, and destroy all that God loves. He'll do all kinds of things to keep people away from Christ, and he'll try to tempt Christians into sin. Hell was prepared for Satan and his demons, but those who reject the gift of salvation through Christ will be sent there also. God does limit what Satan can do, but we must still wear the armor of God and be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
Ezekiel 28:12 - 19 (NASB) 12“Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD,
“You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 “You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared. 14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 “You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you. 16 “By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. 18 “By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. 19 “All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.”’”
For Ezekiel 28 to refer both to the then-reigning king of Tyre as well as to Satan would not be a unique interpretive conclusion. Indeed, it seems the right conclusion: The historic king of Tyre was simply a tool of Satan, possibly indwelt by him. And in describing this king, Ezekiel also gives us glimpses of the superhuman creature, Satan, who was using, if not indwelling, him.
Assuming, then, that Satan is in the picture in these verses, what do we learn about his original characteristics at his creation? Whatever specifics these verses teach they convey the clear idea that Satan was highly privileged, the epitome of God’s Creation, who had an unparalleled position in the universe.
1. Satan had unparalleled wisdom and beauty (v. 12). Satan stood at the zenith of God’s creatures, filled with wisdom and perfect in beauty.
2. Satan had an unparalleled habitation (v. 13). This may refer to a heavenly Eden, or to the earthly Eden. In either case, it was, before sin entered, a unique place.
3. Satan had an unparalleled covering (v. 13). The dazzling description of his dress or robe indicates something of the glory bestowed on him.
4. Satan had an unparalleled function (v. 14). He belonged to the order of angelic creature designated cherubim. They are associated with guarding the holiness of God (Gen. 3:24), with the throne of God (Ezek. 1:5), and here apparently with the actual presence of God. Satan was on the holy mountain of God and he walked in the midst of the stones of fire, likely references to the presence of God Himself. Apparently Satan was the chief guardian of God’s holiness and majesty.
5. Satan had unparalleled perfection (Ezek. 28:15). He was perfect in the sense of being completely sound and of having total moral integrity. Here as well as in verse 13 we are reminded that Satan was created, and as a creature, he must someday answer to his Creator.
In every way Satan was the epitome of God’s Creation. “He awoke in the first moment of his existence in the full-orbed beauty and power of his exalted position; surrounded by all the magnificence which God gave him. He saw himself as above all the hosts in power, wisdom, and beauty. Only at the throne of God itself did he see more than he himself possessed, and it is possible that even that was in some sense not fully visible to the eyes of the creature. . . Before his fall he may be said to have occupied the role of prime minister for God, ruling possibly over the universe but certainly over this world”
Sin was found in him (Ezek. 28:15). This is really the only verse in the Bible that states exactly the origin of sin. The details of Satan’s sin are specified elsewhere, but the origin is only expressed here. Barnhouse terms it as “spontaneous generation in the heart of this being in whom such magnificence of power and beauty had been combined and to whom such authority and privilege had been given” (p. 30).
The New Testament pinpoints Satan’s particular sin as arrogance, conceit, or being puffed up (1 Tim. 3:6). It is likened to the conceit a new convert may have when he is either pushed forward or asserts himself too quickly and begins to take to himself the glory that belongs to God. Ezekiel 28:16 assigns the cause of Satan’s downfall to the abundance of his trade. In other words, Satan used his position for personal profit—to traffic in his own self-promotion.
(Basic Theology)
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Robert E. Barger
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The revelation that God "IS" LOVE is an awlsome understanding. What God "IS" dictates what He must do to maintain what He "IS". The very nature of God cannot manifest anything but the Fruits of the Spirit. He IS LOVE! Love is a consuming FIRE. When we consider everything God "IS", which is everything, We reflect on what Paul said about this, In Him we live and move and have our being.
Acts|17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Acts|17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with
hands;
Acts|17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts|17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times
before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts|17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts|17:28 """For in him we live, and move, and have our being;"""" as certain also of your own poets have said, """For we are also his
offspring.""""""
Acts|17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,
graven by art and man's device.
Acts|17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; """"but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"""""
Acts|17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness """by that man whom he hath ordained;""""
whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Acts|17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead,some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
Acts|17:33 So Paul departed from among them.
Acts|17:34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among
the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
Everything was made by God, even Satan. Satan must ask God's permission to do anything to us.
Job|1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job|1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job|1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and
an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job|1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job|1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job|1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job|1:12 """"And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan
went forth from the presence of the LORD."""""
God is God and everything God created""""Must worship Him!""""" Even Satan! THere is No power but of God, and the powers that be are ordained of God.
Romans|13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Romans|13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
God made Satan to test us,we was made subject to vanity not willingly, but God did it "hoping" that we would fulfill His purpose for our life.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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According to scripture love is keeping His commandments.(2 John 1:6) If you are in the flesh, or in the carnal mind, you cannot love because the carnal is not subject to the law of Christ.
love = commandments = love Him and others
2 John 1:5-6 (NASB)
Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
1 John 4:19 (NASB)
We love, because He first loved us. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Our good works will not get us there because Christs works are the only thing that God honors.
This is true!!! Yet when we accept the Lordship of our Savior, and we are filled with His Spirit, then we will bear the fruit of the Spirit. Good works do not earn salvation, but good works are a result of salvation. Faith without works is dead.
We know too that when Christ returns He will destroy all those who have rejected Him. And at the Great White Throne Judgment, all the wicked will be cast into hell.
“Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah 6:3
That “God is Love” is a precious and comforting teaching for the Christian, but for us to begin with this Scriptural teaching as the whole message of the Gospel only contributes to an already too human understanding of Who God is. Don’t you cringe when you hear someone refer to God as “the Man upstairs”? Too often people attribute our “fallen” characteristics as humans to our God Who is HOLY. We would do well to understand what the Scripture means when we are told “GOD IS HOLY.”
The central truth behind all that the Scripture tells us about God is that He is “MAJESTIC IN HOLINESS” (Exodus 15:11) The Scriptures refer to the holiness of God more than any other attribute. Don’t you think there might be a good reason for this? Unless we know what this means, how can we “BLESS HIS HOLY NAME”? (Psalm 103:1)
We desire with the Psalmist to “behold the beauty of the LORD” for “the beauties of holiness.” This is a threat to the sinner, but what a comfort to the righteous.
The person who is not a Christian needs to understand that God is beyond knowing apart from God revealing Himself to that person. However, there is an initial revealing of God to everyone in all of His creation. “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.”
The Scriptures tell us, “He hath set eternity in their heart, yet so that man cannot find out the work that God hath done from the beginning even to the end.” Every person knows enough about God in their heart to either pursue the knowledge of God or, instead, become “vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart be darkened.” Ultimately, if they persist in this resistance to the knowledge of God, God will leave them to their choice, for “as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind.”
On the other hand, the Christian knows God and is encouraged to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” The Christian realizing that if it were not for the grace of God giving him the revelation of Himself, he too would be lost. For, as Jesus told us, “no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him” and “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.”
A person’s knowledge of God will reflect in that person’s life. He even has the tendency to treat others the way he perceives God treats him. Peter tells us, “but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living. Because it is written, ‘Be ye holy; for I am holy’.”
In other words, as God is completely “OTHER” than the lost people who carve out their own idea of God and as He tells us, “my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”, we also are to be completely “OTHER” than the lost of this world in our thoughts and ways.
When lost loved ones and lost friends respond to life with a groan, with worry, anxiety, fear, etc., we instead manifest the life of Christ in us and bear the “fruit of the Spirit” in our lives. When there is hatred, we are “love”. When there is clamoring, we are “peace”. When there is abrasiveness, we are “gentleness”. When there is any work of the flesh, we manifest the “fruit of the Spirit” of Christ in us. “Live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.” “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.”
Of course, even as a Christian you have “needs,” but how you go about meeting those needs is quite different from the world’s way. When He preached His first sermon Jesus cautioned us to be OTHER than the world: “So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans (the lost) run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.”
If you “think” as the world thinks (“in the futility of their thinking”), you will not know the wonderful supply that His faithfulness provides. You will think like the world thinks: that you did it by your own manipulative efforts. As a Christian (Christ in you) you are to think OTHER than the world thinks. Be HOLY. Be OTHER.
The Scripture does not say, “Become holy” or “Try to be holy.” It says, “BE YE HOLY.” You, having been “made the righteousness of God in Christ” and having been “crucified with Christ” you, nevertheless “live” or, rather, “Christ lives” in you. You ARE holy. Now, BE who you ARE.
Chambers puts it this way: “Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ . . .." He did not say, "I have made a determination to imitate Jesus Christ," or, "I will really make an effort to follow Him"-but-"I have been identified with Him in His death." Once I reach this moral decision and act on it, all that Christ accomplished for me on the Cross is accomplished in me. My unrestrained commitment of myself to God gives the Holy Spirit the opportunity to grant to me the holiness of Jesus Christ.”
As you have the knowledge of the fact that “GOD IS HOLY”, you are called to a life of holiness which is a manifestation of the Spirit of Christ working in you the holiness that is yours in Him. You then will “be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.” The Scripture says you are “called to be holy” for “without holiness no one will see the Lord.”
“So be holy in all you do.”
http://www.seegod.org/god_is_holy.htm
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Robert E. Barger
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Also in John 3:18-19
John|3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not ""is condemned already"",(Why?) because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John|3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world,(The life of Jesus) and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Our good works will not get us there because Christs works are the only thing that God honors.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Robert E. Barger
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You quoated 1Corinthians 13: as being love. Charity is not love, Charity is part of Love. The reason that I said this is because in Old Testament God, who is Love, killed people because of sin. Acccording to your translation, love will not do that.
In Colossians 3:13-14 Charity is listed with mercy, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering, and is the "bond of perfection".
Colossians|3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness,
longsuffering;
Colossians|3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another,
if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye
Colossians|3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
According to scripture love is keeping His commandments.(2 John 1:6) If you are in the flesh, or in the carnal mind, you cannot love because the carnal is not subject to the law of Christ.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Carol Swenson
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John 3:16 (NASB)
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
God’s love is sacrificial. The entire gospel comes to a focus in this verse. God’s love is not static or self-centered; it reaches out and draws others in. Here God sets the pattern of true love, the basis for all love relationships—when you love someone dearly, you are willing to pay dearly for that person’s responsive love. God paid dearly with the life of his Son, the highest price he could pay. Jesus accepted our punishment, paid the price for our sins, and then offered us the new life that he had bought for us. When we share the gospel with others, our love must be like Jesus’. We must be willing to give up our own comfort and security so that others might join us in receiving God’s love.
1 Corinthians 13:4 - 7 (NASB)
4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Love is more important than all the spiritual gifts exercised in the church body. Great faith, acts of dedication or sacrifice, and miracle-working power produce very little without love. Love makes our actions and gifts useful. Although people have different gifts, love is available to everyone.
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Robert E. Barger
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Yes to love the Lord your God with all your heart, but what does God say love is?
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Posts: 38 | From: Trafalgar, Indiana U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 2010
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Carol Swenson
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Hi Robert
Welcome to the Christian BBS!
Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law?
The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).
In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.
“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html
New Testament Commandments
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000888
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Robert E. Barger
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Romans|2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, "do by nature the things contained in the law', these, having not the law, are
a law unto themselves:
Romans|2:15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean
while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Romans|2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
1 Timothy|1:9 Knowing this, that the law (Old Testament Law) is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy|1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Timothy|1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
We are all sinners therefore we are all under the law as long as we sin. And for this cause Jesus came and died that we might ask the Father in Jesus name to forgive us when we sin. If we do not confess out sin, we will not be forgiven. We are to ask everyday, or every time we find that we have sinned.
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Romans|11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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